THE REASON WE NATURALY HATE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS

[horsecamp]

did you know that in every christian there lerks a old man adam that can never be converted to FAITH in Christ.. it is that part of us that can never trust that salvation is ours because of a alien righteousness
a righteousness not of our own work but a work of some one else Jesus's work for us in our stead..

DID YOU EVER WONDER WHY PEOPLE REJECT Jesus . when he won them free and full salvation?

its because people naturaly think they have to contribute to saving them selves its a matter of whom they really trust .. have you ever wondered why the popes teachings are more popular than what Jesus teaches .. The pope teaches you have to be a good person to have eternal life he even uses JAMES who simply says he as a man justify other men by what good "he James sees.. READ THE PASSAGES IN JAMES YOU WILL SEE IM RIGHT




.. yet Jesus teaches some thing way way different he teaches God justifiy us the ungodly. ..

GOD JUSTIFYS PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOOD ! tALK ABOUT AMAZING GRACE.

WE ARE SAVED BY GODS GRACE ALONE through faith in JESUS merits ALONE ITS SOMETHING THAT OLD MAN IN US ALL---------- WILL NEVER BELIEVE ... .





.

1. 
   Romans 4:5
   However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
   Romans 4:4-6 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Romans 5:6
   You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
   

NEXT WE CAN TALK ABOUT we are saved through faith in Christ alone but faith in Christ is never alone its alway acompanied
by works.. :)

 

[Dan57]

I think most Christians are aware and accept the fact that we are saved by grace via our faith in Christ. However, many believe that heavenly rewards are based on our righteous works, i.e; what we sow on earth we'll reap in heaven. In other words, a believer may get their foot in the door, but they aren't automatically given equal status with Moses and Paul.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:19-21). This seems to imply that a believers righteous acts on earth won't be in vain, but acknowledged in heaven, where a "labourer is worthy of his reward" (1 Timothy 5:18),

Most of the people I've met who don't believe (non-Christians), don't reject Christ out of hate, but just have trouble accepting or making sense out of a +2000 year old book. They don't have faith that biblical stories are true, they need/want proof.

 

[williemac]

I don't believe the op has completely described the situation. The current status of a Christian is that the new man is righteous and the old man is positionally dead in Christ. But there is another part of us that is involved in this; namely our soul. The soul is basically our intellect. It is our mind (psyche). We have two natures within us that are in conflict. But there is a part of us (the soul) that has the ability to relate with one or the other of these natures, and decide which is going to dominate the life. We see these three in the passage that states " the flesh (1.) lusts against the spirit (2.), and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary to one another, so that you (3.) do not do the things that you wish. Three parts; body, soul, and spirit.

Here is the conclusion. The old man is not the part of us that gets converted, nor can be converted. That is stated in the op. However, our conversion took place within the soul anyway. The soul at one point saw and acknowledged the sin present within and also acknowledged the need for a savior, and responded to the gospel.

Thus at the new birth, a new spirit was born within and this is the spiritual body that will carry us into the next life when our fleshly body expires. They are the containers of the two nature. The soul is a neutral factor but is so much connected with the body that it can't help but be influenced.

So far this may not be any different from the op other than the wording. However I would like to share something from 1John 2:16, where he says "all that is in the world- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not of the Father, but is of this world".

Many believers get stuck on the so called sin issue but do not understand the rest of the story. Sin was dealt with at Calvary. But there are other issues at hand that relate more singly with the soul than with the flesh. The one that is overlooked is the pride of life.

And this is where the op has succeeded. This is the closest thing to the original offense of Lucifer. He forsook his created purpose and determined to be as God. I feel that the pride of life is the underlying issue in any of creation that has what is referred to as free will. The elevation of self beyond what is true. Self did not create itself. Self cannot produce life or righteousness. Therefore when self tries to take credit for producing either of these, self elevates itself to God's status. However, from our perspective, these things are received, not produced.

But some people take this too far and forget that self can indeed try to take credit for receiving these. But accepting a free gift of charity takes humility. And God gives grace to the humble. Humility is a decision of the soul. This is the soul's part of salvation. Faith has little or no relevancy for the proud, the self exalting.

Even the act of quitting or abstaining from sin for the wrong reasons can be revealing, for they set aside faith. God knows the heart.

 

[horsecamp]

thanks for helping my post out guys . it sure does help with other christians input ..

and Willemaic your correct and still even with your excellent addition to my post, ALL 3 OF us still have not covered this as well as the bible covers it and makes it clear ..And perhaps that the main point we all need to stress dont trust us who in just a few years return to dust------- Trust Gods word which will always abide even to and through the end of this earth .

read your bibles .and see for your self where we are right or if were wrong ..

i cant stress enough dont trust we who are just dust..
:)
“Feelings come and feelings go,
And feelings are deceiving;
My warrant is the Word of God--
Naught else is worth believing.

Though all my heart should feel condemned
For want of some sweet token,
There is One greater than my heart
Whose Word cannot be broken.

I'll trust in God's unchanging Word
Till soul and body sever,
For, though all things shall pass away,
HIS WORD SHALL STAND FOREVER!”
― Martin Luther

 

[Rach1370]

I think it's the nature of sanctification that as Christians we're always moving forward in our understanding, but never quite 'there'....not until we pass from this life.
I think many Christians do, in fact, understand (perhaps in a limited, human way!) that we are saved by faith alone...and that good works come because of that salvation through faith, not to earn it. But living that understanding perfectly?? Nope! We fall again and again, starting of with pure intentions, but then finding we are trying to build our own castle, so to speak.
It's my understanding that sanctification means that every time we fall and Christ helps us back up, we become a little closer to him...slowly following the Spirit and his guidance to become more Christ-like. As long as we are putting one foot in front of the other on this path, we don't need to worry too much about being perfect...not until we are made that way after we die.

 

[aspen]

All relationships require faith and work if they are going to flourish. Why is our relationship with God any different? Without works there is no growth or sanctification - all milk and no meat.

 

[Prentis]

There is a great imbalance in the modern gospel which uses certain verses so say that we need do nothing. It is true indeed that it is not by works nor by any of what we have done that we are granted forgiveness and the remission of sins, and it is nothing of us that allows us to be reconciled to God.

But the completeness of the gospel is that once we have now freely received these things, we are empowered to do what we could not do. Now we have received all things that pertain to godliness, and are lacking nothing. We have a new nature which enables us to be just as he is.

It is heresy to say we need only receive the free gift but not walk in the new nature... Peter warns us of this:
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

People use verses like Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which is true, but if we back up just a bit, we see the purpose of this.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Here the gospel is complete. He freely gave himself to redeem us and grant us forgiveness, and empowered us thereafter to live in a manner wholly pleasing to him.

 

[horsecamp]

AFTER READING EVERYthing

I THINK ALL OF YOU ARE A LOT SMARTER THAN I AM . perhaps i should shut up and listen more than write

 

[williemac]

There is a great imbalance in the modern gospel which uses certain verses so say that we need do nothing. It is true indeed that it is not by works nor by any of what we have done that we are granted forgiveness and the remission of sins, and it is nothing of us that allows us to be reconciled to God.

But the completeness of the gospel is that once we have now freely received these things, we are empowered to do what we could not do. Now we have received all things that pertain to godliness, and are lacking nothing. We have a new nature which enables us to be just as he is.

It is heresy to say we need only receive the free gift but not walk in the new nature... Peter warns us of this:
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

People use verses like Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which is true, but if we back up just a bit, we see the purpose of this.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Here the gospel is complete. He freely gave himself to redeem us and grant us forgiveness, and empowered us thereafter to live in a manner wholly pleasing to him.

All true...BUT... Here comes the monkey wrench. There are many people on the earth who are living as righteously and morally upright as most believers who are apparently empowered while these others are apparently not empowered. However, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Here's what's really happening. In the case of the unsaved morally upright ones, no amount of righteous works actually makes them righteous to the satisfaction of the law. They are still counted as sinners. On the other hand, for believers, no amount of sinning can change the fact the His righteousness has been placed within them. They are still counted as righteous.

There are many unsaved who are displaying love, patience, kindness, goodness, and self control. But this is their own fruit. It will not be counted in their favor. But a believer who displays these may well be credited for the fruit of the spirit in them and receive rewards on the judgment seat of Christ. But maybe not. It all depends on the motive. Some believers feel their works are 'firming up' their salvation, as it were. Some feel their moral uprightness is helping them to gain or maintain everlasting life. If that is the case, they have a cause for boasting, and I predict that these works will be burned and loss will be suffered.

One thing we must remember. We are new creations. This is not empowerment. This is a new nature altogether in a brand new species altogether. Alongside of that, the Holy Spirit is given to empower us to be His witnesses throughout the earth. This is the point of empowerment. The point is NOT to make us behave better so that we can be justified by that better behavior. Right?

Works do not save, nor does faith. We are saved by grace, through faith. Faith is the means by which we receive things from God. Everlasting life is not a reward for faith. Faith is a method, not a qualifier. God gives grace to the humble. Humility is the qualifier.

Works are not a qualifier either and especially. They are fruit. They are the effect, not the cause. As smoke is the effect of fire, works are the effect of faith. If we are lacking smoke, we don't go out and produce smoke. We light a fire. This is the confusion with James. In observing their poor showing of love, he wondered if they had the cause...faith. If they were lacking something, it was not works first. It was faith. Works are a natural outcome. They come as a result. Fruit happens. Love is a fruit of the spirit. just me rambling....cheers, Howie

 

[Dodo_David]

DID YOU EVER WONDER WHY PEOPLE REJECT Jesus . when he won them free and full salvation?

I do not have to wonder, because Jesus Himself explained why.

In John 6:44 (ESV) Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."

In John 6:65 (ESV) Jesus says, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

 

[aspen]

I think it is important to remember that passages of scripture that address the issues of work based religion is directed specifically to a Jewish audience for the purpose of distinguishing followers of Christ from followers of the law and to show the Jewish people that their law was finally fulfilled by Christ. It seems to me that Christians today use it too quick to point the 'works' finger towards anyone who happens to possess more fruit than them. Jesus and Paul were trying to show their Jewish brothers and sisters the good news that they no longer needed to worry about the future - it was supposed to free people up to practice their sanctification. I think we have been guilty of using it to criticize.

 

[justaname]

There are many unsaved who are displaying love, patience, kindness, goodness, and self control. But this is their own fruit. It will not be counted in their favor. But a believer who displays these may well be credited for the fruit of the spirit in them and receive rewards on the judgment seat of Christ. But maybe not. It all depends on the motive. Some believers feel their works are 'firming up' their salvation, as it were. Some feel their moral uprightness is helping them to gain or maintain everlasting life. If that is the case, they have a cause for boasting, and I predict that these works will be burned and loss will be suffered.

This bit here I like quite well...

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: {On the other hand, for believers, no amount of sinning can change the fact the His righteousness has been placed within them. They are still counted as righteous.}

1John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil..."

If you're sinning, then Satan is your boss.

 

[Prentis]

All true...BUT... Here comes the monkey wrench. There are many people on the earth who are living as righteously and morally upright as most believers who are apparently empowered while these others are apparently not empowered. However, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Here's what's really happening. In the case of the unsaved morally upright ones, no amount of righteous works actually makes them righteous to the satisfaction of the law. They are still counted as sinners. On the other hand, for believers, no amount of sinning can change the fact the His righteousness has been placed within them. They are still counted as righteous.

There are many unsaved who are displaying love, patience, kindness, goodness, and self control. But this is their own fruit. It will not be counted in their favor. But a believer who displays these may well be credited for the fruit of the spirit in them and receive rewards on the judgment seat of Christ. But maybe not. It all depends on the motive. Some believers feel their works are 'firming up' their salvation, as it were. Some feel their moral uprightness is helping them to gain or maintain everlasting life. If that is the case, they have a cause for boasting, and I predict that these works will be burned and loss will be suffered.

One thing we must remember. We are new creations. This is not empowerment. This is a new nature altogether in a brand new species altogether. Alongside of that, the Holy Spirit is given to empower us to be His witnesses throughout the earth. This is the point of empowerment. The point is NOT to make us behave better so that we can be justified by that better behavior. Right?

Works do not save, nor does faith. We are saved by grace, through faith. Faith is the means by which we receive things from God. Everlasting life is not a reward for faith. Faith is a method, not a qualifier. God gives grace to the humble. Humility is the qualifier.

Works are not a qualifier either and especially. They are fruit. They are the effect, not the cause. As smoke is the effect of fire, works are the effect of faith. If we are lacking smoke, we don't go out and produce smoke. We light a fire. This is the confusion with James. In observing their poor showing of love, he wondered if they had the cause...faith. If they were lacking something, it was not works first. It was faith. Works are a natural outcome. They come as a result. Fruit happens. Love is a fruit of the spirit. just me rambling....cheers, Howie

It is typical of a self-justifying Christianity to say 'My righteousness saves me, but his righteousness which admitedly is equal to mine does not save him'. The false modern Christianity disobeys the command and it counts us as better than them. But the Word says to consider others above ourselves.

The true reason that many Christians' righteousness does not exceed that of the righteous among the nations, like Cornelius was, is because Christians are not walking in the power of the Gospel. We are empowered not only to be righteous, but to be holy, not only to be honest, but to speak the truth of God and teach it in power.

Through faith we enter the life of God, and are empowered to be as he is. Such a walk is a testimony to the nations, and this is the great salvation we are called to.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It is a lie from the enemy that we are somehow justified in our current state, but others are not. It puffs up. But the truth is that God is no respecter of persons, and in every nation that one who does righteousness is accepted of Him.

But we are not called to a common righteousness, and a common salvation, but rather the new nature in Christ Jesus, which is so great a salvation.

williemac: {On the other hand, for believers, no amount of sinning can change the fact the His righteousness has been placed within them. They are still counted as righteous.}

1John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil..."

If you're sinning, then Satan is your boss.

Yes! We twist the Bible to make it say what we want and justify us. We do this so that we can remain in our unbelief, and do not need to now by faith enter into the new creation and power available in Christ Jesus to be as he is.

So we justify ourselves by a scheme which takes certain verses against the others. But by this we make ourselves enemies, because we make the power of God proclaimed in the Gospel of none effect.

The Pharisees did the same, they used one thing, 'We are the sons of Abraham', to justify themselves and make null the necessity laid before them of having faith like Abraham. So we say 'we believe like the apostles' but forget and not see that we do not walk as they did, and this only proves we do not have faith as they did.

By this, the modern church has turned from Christ to fables.

 

[Marcus92]

I value Jesus' teachings more than any other person's. I have read the Gospel of Thomas so many times, i think it's a shame it is not included in the bible, because it's some of Jesus' most true and inspired words and has a lot of inner teachings instead of focusing on the outter.