The Religion Box

[Episkopos]

Holy doesn't preclude sinfulness. The priests who attended the altar were holy, yet sinful beings.

Under an imperfect covenant. Do you esteem Christ as as animal? Or better?

So the works of the law could not present us in holiness...but the New covenant does indeed perfect us in holiness.

Are you trying to support a sinful holiness...as in as sinful as God is sinful?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Under an imperfect covenant. Do you esteem Christ as as animal? Or better?
So the works of the law could not present us in holiness...but the New covenant does indeed perfect us in holiness.
Are you trying to support a sinful holiness...as in as sinful as God is sinful?

That's just an excuse. The old is the pattern for the new. GOD overlooked the sinfulness of the priests because they were doing his will. That is what sanctifies and makes someone holy and acceptable to GOD. The holy priests were continually defiled by sin from handling the sacrifices, and had to continually wash themselves with water in order to cleanse the defilement. That is no different from what we deal with today. To suggest otherwise is to create your own narrative that contradicts the shadows that are in place to instruct us.

There is no such thing as a sinful holiness. Holiness pertains to those whom GOD has set apart for his purposes. He cleanses them in his eyes, and considers them blameless, even though they are flawed sinful beings.

 

[Episkopos]

That's just an excuse. The old is the pattern for the new. GOD overlooked the sinfulness of the priests because they were doing his will. That is what sanctifies and makes someone holy and acceptable to GOD. The holy priests were continually defiled by sin from handling the sacrifices, and had to continually wash themselves with water in order to cleanse the defilement. That is no different from what we deal with today. To suggest otherwise is to create your own narrative that contradicts the shadows that are in place to instruct us.

There is no such thing as a sinful holiness. Holiness pertains to those whom GOD has set apart for his purposes. He cleanses them in his eyes, and considers them blameless, even though they are flawed sinful beings.

Are you saying God is blinder than we are????

Can you find ANYTHING anywhere that would suggest that? Your doctrine has spun you completely out of reality!

1Pe_3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you saying God is blinder than we are????
Can you find ANYTHING anywhere that would suggest that? Your doctrine has spun you completely out of reality!
1Pe_3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Your understanding of old testament shadows is very weak. That makes it easy for another spirit and gospel to deceive your mind.

 

[Episkopos]

Your understanding of old testament shadows is very weak. That makes it easy for another spirit and gospel to deceive your mind.

Please stay off the thread I started...you are just trolling here...start a new thread and invite positional people over!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Please stay off the thread I started...you are just trolling here...start a new thread and invite positional people over!

You've finally been outed. Your walk is based on faith in the experience of communing with a spirit of some form of Christian mysticism.

 

[Episkopos]

You've finally been outed. Your walk is based on faith in the experience of communing with a spirit of some form of Christian mysticism.

Troll alert!!!!

 

[williemac]

So the works of the law could not present us in holiness...but the New covenant does indeed perfect us in holiness.

Are you trying to support a sinful holiness...as in as sinful as God is sinful?

You don't know the definition of holy. Water can be holy. Garments can be holy. Ground can be holy. And so on and so forth. From this knowledge, we should realize that holiness is not about moral behavior. But if you are getting this wrong, then what else are you misunderstanding? Holiness is purpose related. We are called for a purpose. Thus it is a holy calling.

But remember that we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. (2Cor.4:7) God left us in a weak state of being in this life so that we would remain humble. in our present life there always is the temptation to our psyche to glorify or exalt self. (see, Luke18:10-14). Thus, He has done what He must, to help discourage any thought that we can from our own resources attain merit from God for anything. Any Christian who thinks he has no sin does not understand the definition of it. For one thing, because of it we fall short of the glory of God. If anyone feels he is walking around with the equivalent to God's glory, he is only fooling himself.

We have to resist taking ownership of those things that are ours by faith. We did not nor do not produce life or righteousness. When we bear fruit we are bearing His fruit, not ours. Stay humble, my friends.

 

[Levi]

We have to resist taking ownership of those things that are ours by faith. We did not nor do not produce life or righteousness. When we bear fruit we are bearing His fruit, not ours. Stay humble, my friends.

Agreed! We are to be bearing His fruit, it's what Episkopos is trying to say. His Fruit is mature, complete, holy and perfect!!

It is no longer I, but Christ living in me, His Fruit!!

 

[aspen]

What is wrong with Christian mysticism?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What is wrong with Christian mysticism?

It's occultic roots. Christian mysticism seeks the esoteric meanings behind written words. Emanuel Swedenborg was a Christian mystic who stated,

...the spiritual sense of the word is not the sense which shines forth from the sense of the letter. The spiritual sense does not appear in the sense of the letter, being within it as the soul in the body” (The Doctrine of the Holy Scriptures Four Doctrines, Emanuel Swedenborg, pg.4).

How many times have we heard Episkopos say essentially the same thing?

GOD's work is plain and means exactly what it says. The meaning is only hidden to those who don't have the spirit of GOD. Mystics turn this on its head to say that everything has a hidden meaning that only they can see. That type of attitude is anathema to GOD.

I suggest you do your own research: Christian + mysticism + occult

 

[Episkopos]

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The truth of this is seen over and over again in the attempt to make the bible serve a human agenda.

 

[Levi]

It's occultic roots. Christian mysticism seeks the esoteric meanings behind written words. Emanuel Swedenborg was a Christian mystic who stated,


How many times have we heard Episkopos say essentially the same thing?

GOD's work is plain and means exactly what it says. The meaning is only hidden to those who don't have the spirit of GOD. Mystics turn this on its head to say that everything has a hidden meaning that only they can see. That type of attitude is anathema to GOD.

I suggest you do your own research: Christian + mysticism + occult

Of course when you search for the occult - you'll get the occult, just as if we searched for Christian, we'd get sites about Christian's! LOL

I agree with aspen, what exactly is wrong with mysticism? The definition itself is "experiencing and knowing God" - is this something you do not do? We learn by experience, an experience can not be taught in a study or a classroom, it must be experienced and that is what God wants us to do - experience Him!! We spend hours reading the Bible and learning about how OTHER people experienced Him, yet if we have not experienced Him for ourselves, then there is something wrong with us spiritually! Jesus said the Father and I are One - that in itself is mysticism, how is this even possible from a human perspective? It's not because it's all spiritual. Just as the Father and Jesus are One, He prayed that we would also be one with them!

God wants to fellowship with us, this involves directly knowing Him, as in a relationship.

If we recall some of the mystic things of the Bible, all of The Revelation, Jacob saw Heaven open up, God spoke to many in dreams, visions, He sent angels, the transfiguration, Jesus ascending, Lazarus raised from the dead, and on and on.

God is the same!! These things have not gone away! How many today have dreams and visions? How many have experienced an unexplained miracle? How many have experienced God in such a way that it is difficult to describe?

God is alive and well! He speaks to us, He relates to us, He wants us to experience Him!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Of course when you search for the occult - you'll get the occult, just as if we searched for Christian, we'd get sites about Christian's! LOL

Oh LOL. With that statement I think the picture below would be a more appropriate avatar for you.

 

[Episkopos]

Of course when you search for the occult - you'll get the occult, just as if we searched for Christian, we'd get sites about Christian's! LOL

I agree with aspen, what exactly is wrong with mysticism? The definition itself is "experiencing and knowing God" - is this something you do not do? We learn by experience, an experience can not be taught in a study or a classroom, it must be experienced and that is what God wants us to do - experience Him!! We spend hours reading the Bible and learning about how OTHER people experienced Him, yet if we have not experienced Him for ourselves, then there is something wrong with us spiritually! Jesus said the Father and I are One - that in itself is mysticism, how is this even possible from a human perspective? It's not because it's all spiritual. Just as the Father and Jesus are One, He prayed that we would also be one with them!

God wants to fellowship with us, this involves directly knowing Him, as in a relationship.

If we recall some of the mystic things of the Bible, all of The Revelation, Jacob saw Heaven open up, God spoke to many in dreams, visions, He sent angels, the transfiguration, Jesus ascending, Lazarus raised from the dead, and on and on.

God is the same!! These things have not gone away! How many today have dreams and visions? How many have experienced an unexplained miracle? How many have experienced God in such a way that it is difficult to describe?

God is alive and well! He speaks to us, He relates to us, He wants us to experience Him!

Amen! People always try to pervert the goodness of God. If they can't have it then it must be bad!!! This is why it is never wise to judge anything from ourselves.

 

[Levi]

Amen! People always try to pervert the goodness of God. If they can't have it then it must be bad!!! This is why it is never wise to judge anything from ourselves.

The thing is, a person will KNOW when they experience God in a real way, if they haven't, there is no understanding on their part.

His desire is for US to experience Him.

 

[Episkopos]

The thing is, a person will KNOW when they experience God in a real way, if they haven't, there is no understanding on their part.

His desire is for US to experience Him.

Amen!!! The whole purpose of the bible is to show us the way through the testimony of they who have experienced God in a very personal way...now go do likewise!!! :)

 

[Levi]

Amen!!! The whole purpose of the bible is to show us the way through the testimony of they who have experienced God in a very personal way...now go do likewise!!! :)

Exactly!!!

God has not changed! He STILL interacts with us, but our experiences are met with criticism and unbelief!

 

[Episkopos]

Exactly!!!

God has not changed! He STILL interacts with us, but our experiences are met with criticism and unbelief!

Same as it ever was!

 

[aspen]

Christian mysticism has nothing to do with secret knowledge. You may be confusing the term with Gnosticism - I have also seen a similar thread of Gnosticism in episk doctrine, but he denies it so I take him at his word. Swedenborg was heretic - his writings lead to modern new age thinking and was admired by mind science groups. CM was practiced by St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross, along with many orthodox Protestants. Levi did a nice job of explaining CM - I would only add that it consists of deep prayer and direct experience with God. It is open to all Christians