The restrainer from the context of the verses, is that the apostacy or falling away from the faith must happen before antichrist is revealed. The he who now restrains (at the time of the writing) is referring to the christians that have not fallen away from the faith yet {taken out of the way}. [NOTE: The apostacy has happened now, and the restrainer is no longer here. The antichrist may be revealed now.]Let's look at it:2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [letteth means restrains in middle english; KJV english]2 Thess. 2:6 is the key. He says "and now ye know what withholdeth". You know because he just told you in 2 Thes. 2:3, that the apostacy (or falling away from the true faith) must happen first. It was withholding the antichrist from being revealed because it had not happened yet.Since it is referring to the apostacy must happen first, and the fact that it had not happened yet was restraining the antichrist from being revealed, So 2 Thess. 2:7 means, he (anyone) that is not yet fallen away from the faith, will restrain, until he falls away from the faith and is taken out of the way. Then antichrist may be revealed.The falling away from the true Christian faith has been happening for the past few decades. The antichrist system has flooded the market with fake bibles with the words changed, and infiltrated the protestant pulpits with false preachers preaching the love gospel;- they emphasize love and unity and only rarely preach repentance and sound doctrine. Repentance is one of the requirements for salvation.The watered down version of Christianity, which is a falling away from the true faith is now preached mostly. Television and movies, (controlled by the antichrist system, has destroyed the moral values of the youth, and young adults, and some older adults. Immoral people fill the seats in the chuches; not really saved and unrepentant. Even homosexual churches abound. Antichrist system fake preachers faking healing miracles on TV, also.So now the antichrist may be revealed because the apostacy has happened.John Calvin(1509-1564) (Presbyterian)"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from "Institutes" by John Calvin. Martin Luther(1483-1546) (Lutheran)"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) John Knox(1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from "The Zurich Letters" pg. 199 by John Knox. Cotton Mather(1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church; and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from "The Fall of Babylon" by Cotton Mather Thomas Cranmer(1489-1556) (Anglican)"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from "Works" by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7. John Wesley(1703-1791) (Methodist)Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from "Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms" by John Wesley, pg. 110. Roger William(1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)He called the Pope "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vessals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to changed times and laws: but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." You can add to those names these men that believed the same sort of thing. Wycliff, Tyndale, Sir Isaac Newton, Fox, Finney, Moody, Spurgeon.See the book, THE PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, by Froom for further information on this subject. --or GREAT PROPHECIES OF THE BIBLE by Woodrow.antichrist = last pope {first beast of revelation 13}false prophet, second beast of revelation 13 = last jesuit generalThe jesuit general has a large number of workers that take orders from him worldwide which have infiltrated the newsmedia, churches, government, entertainment industry, big business, law enforcement, according to authors like avro manhattan, former jesuits, Alberto Rivera, and malachi martin, and also Jack Chick, and the author of the website about the Jesuit general, vaticanassassins.org, --click on Kolvenbach. See online book, smokescreens.Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. The number of the name of the man the antichrist must add up to 666. The new testament was written in Greek, and greek letters are used for numbers. Martin Luther showed during the reformation that the name Benedict [which is Benediktos in Greek] adds up to 666 when numbers are substituted for letters. Martin Luther thought it might refer to a pope named Benedict.ΒενεδικτοσςTOTAL255054102030070200total = 666The pope now is Benedict xvi.
The Restrainer Of 2 Thessalonians
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II Thessalonians 2 has nothing to do with the pope. The pope is not THE AntiChrist. THE AntiChrist is Satan himself.
The restrainer is Michael and God he is held back restrained Michael will war with him until Gods appointed time it has nothing to do with man nor any church on earth catholic or otherwise Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
tomwebster
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The restrainer is Michael and God he is held back restrained Michael will war with him until Gods appointed time it has nothing to do with man nor any church on earth catholic or otherwise Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
Gotta stay with structure, Rev 12: 1-12 are esoteric and parenthetical and happened much earlier in time. The war in heaven (vs. 7) here is referring to the war in the first earth age. Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The restrainer is Michael and God he is held back restrained Michael will war with him until Gods appointed time it has nothing to do with man nor any church on earth catholic or otherwise Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
Gotta stay with structure, Rev 12: 1-12 are esoteric and parenthetical and happened much earlier in time. The war in heaven (vs. 7) here is referring to the war in the first earth age. Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
It's hard to argue with 1500 years of Church history (from about 90 A.D. when Revelation was written to 1590 A.D. when the Jesuit Ribera invented futurism) who all saw the Roman empire as the restrainer and every significant non-catholic church father who said the pope is the antichrist. If you read the Bible it is clear that if the pope is not the antichrist than the Bible is not from God. Since no one else CAN fulfill the prophecies since they were to be fulfilled in the ten part division after the fall of Rome and since that is long past and three of the divided nations no longer exist and Rome is not coming back since it would not actual be Rome but someone assuming the name. Either the toes are on the statue in Daniel and the head of the fourth beast is on the beast or you are free to rape the Bible into anything you want.
(D.A.S.;67503)
It's hard to argue with 1500 years of Church history (from about 90 A.D. when Revelation was written to 1590 A.D. when the Jesuit Ribera invented futurism) who all saw the Roman empire as the restrainer and every significant non-catholic church father who said the pope is the antichrist. If you read the Bible it is clear that if the pope is not the antichrist than the Bible is not from God. Since no one else CAN fulfill the prophecies since they were to be fulfilled in the ten part division after the fall of Rome and since that is long past and three of the divided nations no longer exist and Rome is not coming back since it would not actual be Rome but someone assuming the name. Either the toes are on the statue in Daniel and the head of the fourth beast is on the beast or you are free to rape the Bible into anything you want.
Which came first? The church (any) or the Word?
It's hard to argue with 1500 years of Church history (from about 90 A.D. when Revelation was written to 1590 A.D. when the Jesuit Ribera invented futurism) who all saw the Roman empire as the restrainer and every significant non-catholic church father who said the pope is the antichrist. If you read the Bible it is clear that if the pope is not the antichrist than the Bible is not from God. Since no one else CAN fulfill the prophecies since they were to be fulfilled in the ten part division after the fall of Rome and since that is long past and three of the divided nations no longer exist and Rome is not coming back since it would not actual be Rome but someone assuming the name. Either the toes are on the statue in Daniel and the head of the fourth beast is on the beast or you are free to rape the Bible into anything you want.
Which came first? The church (any) or the Word?
tomwebster
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It's hard to argue with 1500 years of Church history (from about 90 A.D. when Revelation was written to 1590 A.D. when the Jesuit Ribera invented futurism) ...
das, I know you are new to CB, go back and read the many, many threads and posts on this subject so we do not have to suffer with yet another arguement on this same subject.
It's hard to argue with 1500 years of Church history (from about 90 A.D. when Revelation was written to 1590 A.D. when the Jesuit Ribera invented futurism) ...
das, I know you are new to CB, go back and read the many, many threads and posts on this subject so we do not have to suffer with yet another arguement on this same subject.
.... but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the wayNotice when speaking of the restrainer it says "he" and "the one". Sounds singular to me. We are not told exactly who "he" is so that means we do not know for sure today.In addressing the Thessalonians it was discussed that they (the Thessalonians) knew who the restrainer was. But today we are not clearly told exactly who it is. Therefore who is the restrainer ?? "We do not know for sure" is the correct answer. In spite of that speculation abounds. Here and everywhere. What a mess sometimes.Martin W.
II Thessalonians 2 has nothing to do with the pope. The pope is not THE AntiChrist. THE AntiChrist is Satan himself.__________________What is the goal of Christianity Board?
Satan is the dragon, not the beast. The dragon gives power to the beast. So the beast is ruled by Satan but not Satan himself.
Satan is the dragon, not the beast. The dragon gives power to the beast. So the beast is ruled by Satan but not Satan himself.
(Carico;68548)
(Jordan;67480)
II Thessalonians 2 has nothing to do with the pope. The pope is not THE AntiChrist. THE AntiChrist is Satan himself.
Satan is the dragon, not the beast. The dragon gives power to the beast. So the beast is ruled by Satan but not Satan himself.Unless you can document that the beast (The Anti-Christ) is not Satan, all I see is vague speculations of men! I can back my saying w/ scriptures.
(Jordan;67480)
II Thessalonians 2 has nothing to do with the pope. The pope is not THE AntiChrist. THE AntiChrist is Satan himself.
Satan is the dragon, not the beast. The dragon gives power to the beast. So the beast is ruled by Satan but not Satan himself.Unless you can document that the beast (The Anti-Christ) is not Satan, all I see is vague speculations of men! I can back my saying w/ scriptures.
(Jordan;68555)
Unless you can document that the beast (The Anti-Christ) is not Satan, all I see is vague speculations of men! I can back my saying w/ scriptures.
Revelation 20: 2, "He seized the [B]dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil, or Satan, [/B]and bound him for a thousand years."Revelation 13:2, "The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." The dragon and the beast are two separate entities. The dragon is clearly the devil as Rev. 20:2 explains who gave power to the beast. So the beast is a servant of Satan, not Satan himself. So again, I suggest you read the bible more carefully before you claim to know what it says.
Unless you can document that the beast (The Anti-Christ) is not Satan, all I see is vague speculations of men! I can back my saying w/ scriptures.
Revelation 20: 2, "He seized the [B]dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil, or Satan, [/B]and bound him for a thousand years."Revelation 13:2, "The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." The dragon and the beast are two separate entities. The dragon is clearly the devil as Rev. 20:2 explains who gave power to the beast. So the beast is a servant of Satan, not Satan himself. So again, I suggest you read the bible more carefully before you claim to know what it says.
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