The Resurrection is Past Already

[veteran]

Hi veteran,

I would think you might know this anyway. But the reason your prophecy teacher says the temple must be rebuilt is because they know the scripture says it will be destroyed in the last days. What they can't accept is a spiritual coming.

Philetus and Hymenaeus were wrong about the resurrection because the destruction had not happened when they said the resurrection had already occurred.

Scripture is not wrong, men are.

No Rocky, your understanding on the matter is wanting because of Preterist teachers you are listening to.

None of the signs of the end Jesus gave in Matt.24 were fulfilled in 70 A.D.

The resurrection in question per Apostle Paul is about the future resurrection that will occur only at Christ's second literal coming back to this earth, as written. The raising of the dead had already been going on, even back to OT times with God working through His prophet Elisha (2 Kings 4).

There are way... too many Scriptures about Christ's second coming being a literal physical coming, and not just some spiritual symbolism. Those men who teach you that Christ's return is not literal, or that it already happened, are false and go against God's Word.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

To all:





Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

John saw the souls that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. One that comes to mind would be Paul. He goes on to say they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand (unknown length) years. Nothing is mentioned about Abraham and the others of faith that lived during the age of Law.

Jesus had told Martha that if one lives and believes on Jesus they would never die. So we see how it was that Paul lived and reigned with Christ.

Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Here we see the small and great would be judged according to their works. These would be those Jews that lived under the age of law.

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Now the sea gives up the dead, the sea represented the gentiles, and they were judged according to their works.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The end will include destruction of the city and the temple.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel shall rest (when the faithful Jews of the old covenant passed away, they were said to be sleeping) tell the end be. Then he would stand in his lot (people of his kind) at the end of the days.

These scriptures say judgment would come at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Summary, Christians never die, they go directly to be with God, the resurrection of the dead would come in 70 AD.

If God said we would know the end had come when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed, then it has happened.

If there are any that do not believe God said these things, would you explain how you read the scriptures that have just been quoted here in this post.

 

[Raeneske]

To all:





Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

John saw the souls that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. One that comes to mind would be Paul. He goes on to say they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand (unknown length) years. Nothing is mentioned about Abraham and the others of faith that lived during the age of Law.

Jesus had told Martha that if one lives and believes on Jesus they would never die. So we see how it was that Paul lived and reigned with Christ.

Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Here we see the small and great would be judged according to their works. These would be those Jews that lived under the age of law.

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Now the sea gives up the dead, the sea represented the gentiles, and they were judged according to their works.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The end will include destruction of the city and the temple.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel shall rest (when the faithful Jews of the old covenant passed away, they were said to be sleeping) tell the end be. Then he would stand in his lot (people of his kind) at the end of the days.

These scriptures say judgment would come at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Summary, Christians never die, they go directly to be with God, the resurrection of the dead would come in 70 AD.

If God said we would know the end had come when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed, then it has happened.

If there are any that do not believe God said these things, would you explain how you read the scriptures that have just been quoted here in this post.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

How can you say there is no resurrection from the dead? How can you declare that Christians never die, that they go directly to be with God? If there is no resurrection, then Christ is not risen. And if He is not risen, then our preaching, and our faith, even your faith, is vain. Christians do die, they sleep just like the Jews. The resurrection is upon the last day.


John 11:23-24 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


Has the last day already passed? No. We wouldn't even be here if the last day had already passed.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus isn't saying that all Christians will never experience the natural death, although there will be some (144,000) that will not experience that natural death. He is saying that they shall have eternal life.


John 6:53-54 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[williemac]

Math.22:29,30......." Jesus answered and said to them, you are mistaken, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels of God in heaven". .. already past, huh?

 

[John 8:32]

Paul was speaking to Timothy, not us. At that time the temple had not been destroyed, thus the sign of Jesus' return had not happened.
As was posted earlier, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and since that was the sign of his coming, it happened.

Be blessed

If that is the case, which epistle of the New Testament should we read? None are addressed to us at this time. By your logic, certainly not the book of Acts...

Act 1:1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

written to Theophilus, not us.

Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

the church at Rome, not us.

1Co 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

the church at Corinth, not us.

We had just as well discard the entirety of the New Testament, none of it was written to us.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

If that is the case, which epistle of the New Testament should we read? None are addressed to us at this time. By your logic, certainly not the book of Acts...

We had just as well discard the entirety of the New Testament, none of it was written to us.

John,

Without the bible we would have no way to know God. Just because it is not addressed to us, does not mean it is not for us. Can we tell the difference, certainly, if we read with understanding. For example:

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Jesus was speaking to the Jews that were there in his presence. It is for us to understand that we should not do those things, but the judgment was to come upon them, in their generation.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
John is writing to the seven churches of Asia that existed at that time. It is for us to know and understand, but not to believe that those things written in this book of Revelation was going to happen to us.

These two examples are just the proper way to read God’s word. When reading it as if it is written directly to us, men still continue to struggle with scripture.

So the main purpose the bible serves today, besides how to get saved and stay that way, is wrapped up in this scripture:

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Thank you for your response and:

Be blessed

 

[veteran]

These two examples are just the proper way to read God’s word. When reading it as if it is written directly to us, men still continue to struggle with scripture.

The main ones that struggle with understanding in God's Word, even the parts specifically addressed to His people, are those He has not 'given' to understand it. And the reason He doesn't for those usually has to do with something else they are listening to and following instead of Him in His Word of Truth.

It does not matter where or what... nationality a believer on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ came from, IF... they ask God directly for understanding, and do it HIS WAY, He will give them understanding in His Word, as per His Promise to knock and it shall be opened to you.

So those believers not receiving that ought to verify just which 'door' it is they are knocking on.

 

[williemac]

Rom.10:9,10 was part of a letter written to the Romans. But if someone were to ask how one is saved, anyone can make use of it as though it is speaking directly to them.The life and ministry of Jesus was recorded in 4 gospels. What He said about the end time signs and wonders, He said to His disciples. Does this mean then that anyone who wasn't within earshot of Him at the time was not included? The gospels were not written to anyone in particular. They were written for the benefit of to whom it may concern. John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in modern day times. It applies to anyone and everyone. It is a cop out to use the argument that things do not apply to someone just because it was not written to them.
That is much too general of a statement. It may be true in one particular context but it is not a universal application by any stretch of the imagination.

Peter wrote that there would be scoffers in the last days, walking according to their own lusts (2Pet.3:3). Notice, Mr. Wiley, that he did not call them "these" last days. In fact, he pre-quoted them as saying .."since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation".

We can tell from the wording that he expected a rather long duration of time to pass before the coming of Jesus. In fact, he mentions with God,one day is as a thousand years and visa versa. Then he tells why the delay. Because God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The truth is that the coming of the Lord Jesus to begin His 1000 yr, reign, represents the shutting of the door of this age of grace, this age when the gospel is being preached in all the world for all to hear.

We are still in the age of grace. We are still seeing many come to Jesus. The world is still being evangelized. People are still being born again. And as Peter said in ch.3:7.."...the heavens and earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men".

God is still delaying the coming of His Son, patiently waiting for the fulness of the gentiles to be complete, not willing that any should perish. The delay is about bringing as many people into the kingdom as possible until God is satisfied with the number, which by the way is as the sand of the sea. That number is coming in, not after the coming of Jesus, but before it. Otherwise it makes the given reason for the delay irrelevant and useless.

The destruction of the temple in 70 AD was not the end of the church age, but rather the beginning of it. It was the final punctuation of God on the end of the old covenant. And most certainly the Lord did not appear in the sky with His saints, and most certainly the event known as the resurrection did not occur. At that time, everyone who is in Christ, from the beginning until now, will simultaneously be changed, the dead in Christ first, which is those who have passed away, and we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. This is the resurrection. It doesn't happen when a believer dies and goes to heaven. They are there now in the same spiritual body they always had from the new birth. ( 2Cor.5:1) The new body is a different one than that. The resurrected body is one that combines the traits of both physical and spiritual and is compatible with the new heavens and new earth....which is still a future experience.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

To All:

All scripture was hand written and delivered to the people that it pertained to. In the Old Testament, that would be the Jews. In the New Testament, that would be the churches of that time. None of it was delievered directly to us.

Does that mean it is not for us? No, but prophecy comes to pass or it is a false prophecy. Jesus told his disciples and other Jews that he was coming in judgment in their generation and he did, or he was a false Messiah.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Greek word for thousand: chilioi - khil'-ee-oy Plural of uncertain affinity
A day to the Lord is as a affinity, an unknown relationship or time.

The thousand years was unknown because, as Jesus said, the father only knows when the end would come.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
to them (the church) with us (the Jewish apostles)
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
unto you (the early church)
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
This scripture speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple at the end of the age of law.
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The old was to pass away, (heaven and earth) and the new heavens and earth would bring rightousness, no more of the age of law for anyone.
Nevertheless we (the Jews) look for the new age.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Wherefore ye (the early church) look for such things

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
God in the past spake to the fathers (Jews) by prophets.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hath in these last days (the days they were living in) has spoken to us (Jewish apostles) by his son (Jesus).