The Rich Man and Lazarus- What Guilt is Laid on the Rich Man?

[newton3005]

In the modern world, one’s attention is not grabbed unless someone comes forward to communicate with him. The communication can be verbal or written, or through the news, or through our houses of worship. Without these means, the rest of us go about our merry way, ignorant of those who are in worse shape than we are.

A question arises in Luke 16:19–31…What exactly was the rich man guilty of? The story starts with Verse 19 which says, “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.” Is that a sin? Is it a sin to be rich? Did not God command Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 to “Be fruitful”?

On the other hand, we have Verses 20-21 which describes Lazarus as someone who is poor, covered with sores, and ‘desires to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table.’ Seems the poor man wasn’t exactly ambitious, nor was he assertive. Also seems the rich man’s table is within reach of Lazarus, considering Lazarus can eat the scraps that fell with ease to him. Is there any indication that Lazarus asks the rich man something like, ‘Do you have extra food for me to eat?’ or ‘Can you spare some money that I may buy my own food?’ For all the rich man knows, Lazarus is perfectly happy being where he is, and it’s apparent he gets enough nourishment from the scraps.

One may ask, ‘Does the rich man not have any decency to realize that Lazarus is much worse off than he is?’ Perhaps this rich man would have learned things from the world around him, furthering learn the decency and divine morality to feed the poor. Perhaps he was too preoccupied with being fruitful to learn these things.

To what extent can the rich man be held accountable for failure to do things that are second nature to the rest of us, like helping the poor and needy, if he does not know of these things? There is no indication in this story that he ever had such exposure. It is an issue that has found its way into the 20th century in which Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, totally ignorant of the needs of the poor and needy, was shot to death during the Russian Revolution. Seems ignorance can be as damning as the plague. Ironically, the Tsar’s ignorance may have prevented him from learning of the Rich Man story in the Bible.

What is a message that someone can walk away with from reading the Rich Man and Lazarus? It’s that if you are totally ignorant and oblivious of human nature, but you are made aware of Jesus and the Bible that reflects him, and you absorb the lessons enough to have faith in God through him enough to know that Jesus expects you to give aid to the poor and needy as he advises in Matthew 25:31-46, and you do so, you can join Lazarus in God’s Kingdom. Can we say that about certain leaders we hear about today?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The rich man was obviously a sinner who was out to bless himself only and after reviving financial blessing he refused to help the poor

It's an example of what NOT to do for those that have this world's wealth

Is it a sin to be rich?

No, it is not a sin to be rich.

However is is a sin to trust in riches before trusting the Lord.

God always comes first.

What is a message that someone can walk away with from reading the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Another lesson is it's Jesus showing us people really do go to hell and are tortured there

Many today have been deceived by the devil in to thinking God is going to cause people to cease to exist.

Their claim is that Jesus is a liar and lied about hell. When they get their they will learn Jesus was not lying.

 

[Wrangler]

What exactly was the rich man guilty of?

Not loving Lazarus, not being charitable in either spirit or material help.

 

[Beebster]

The first lesson is that it's a parable and not to be taken literally.

Peace.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Did not God command Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 to “Be fruitful”?

Poor analogy. Being fruitful has nothing to do with money. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Though God does want us to work and prosper.

Seems the poor man wasn’t exactly ambitious, nor was he assertive.

Sure, he might have goofed up, been a sluggard - but Jesus would not lift up a sluggard. Lazarus apparently was a man of faith who fell on hard times because of his disease. Having sores on his body, equivalent to a leper - who wanted anything to do with him, or hire him except a dog who licked his wounds - likely sent by God. God had mercy on this one. And it is not for us judge, though I often do judge the poor homeless for being sluggards, druggies, etc.

What is a message that someone can walk away with from reading the Rich Man and Lazarus?

The Rich man did not have nor did he exercise faith in God - he was not fruitful in the true sense of the word. He was an idolater, who worshipped his wealth/ himself.
What did Jesus say to the Rich man who approached Him, who even claimed he kept the commandments and asked what should he do to enter into the kingdom of heaven? Jesus knew his wealth and his big obstacle ( weakness). He was a lover of money. Jesus told him to sell everything and give it to the poor, knowing he would not. The man could not, walked away, he could not give up his worldly possessions. "It is easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven."
The doorway into a city was called the "eye of a needle", because it was shaped that way with an arch likely 8+ feet tall. Rich people who came into the city had all their possessions piled onto camels often much higher than the doorway; so they could not fit through without removing all their possessions first. As the saying goes, "you can't take it with you"... into heaven that is.
The other message is clearly judgment, that there is a place called Hades where unfaithful souls go after death. It is not a parable! Jesus never used names of real people like Abraham in his parables. He did not manufacture abstract territories that did not exist for the purpose of teaching something in reality. No, Hades is real. The afterlife is divided into two locations -- as real as there are good and evil; one for the unfaithful and one for the faithful. Abraham is there, as well as other faithful believers in God. He was seen comforting Lazarus_ at his bosom (giving him a welcoming hug) _ in Paradise - another name for heaven.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The first lesson is that it's a parable and not to be taken literally.

That's exactly what the demons falsely claim.
But that is to be expected since the devil claims God is a liar.

Those that are naive reject what Jesus says and instead choose to believe what the demons tell them

Jesus said a certain rich man so He was speaking of two actual people and their experiences
One went to hell as is being tortured there, and the other is with the Lord.

 

[RepentingChristian]

That's exactly what the demons falsely claim.
But that is to be expected since the devil claims God is a liar.

Those that are naive reject what Jesus says and instead choose to believe what the demons tell them View attachment 80273

Jesus said a certain rich man so He was speaking of two actual people and their experiences
One went to hell as is being tortured there, and the other is with the Lord.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

 

[Beebster]

The Rich man did not have nor did he exercise faith in God - he was not fruitful in the true sense of the word.

The Rich man i.e. group of people, certainly did exercise faith in God. Still do to this day.
Unfortunately they eat at a different altar:

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

It is not a parable!

It most certainly is.

The Parable of the Lost Sheep​

Luk 15:4 What man of you,

The Parable of the Lost Coin​

Luk 15:8 Either what woman

The Parable of the Prodigal Son​

Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

The Parable of the Dishonest Manager​

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man,

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man,

It takes a very stubborn spirit to deny the fact that "The Rich Man and Lazarus" is a parable.
It's obvious when you read chapter 15 through 16.

Jesus never used names of real people like Abraham in his parables.

Is there chapter and verse on this belief?
He never called his Father by name but he mentions God the Father in a parable.
And Satan and the Son of man.
Or does this unscriptural rule only apply to proper names?

He did not manufacture abstract territories that did not exist for the purpose of teaching something in reality.

Hades is the state of death. It is synonymous with shoel of the OT. It is not a location or a place if you will. That belief is pagan.

No, Hades is real. The afterlife is divided into two locations -- as real as there are good and evil; one for the unfaithful and one for the faithful.

More pagan doctrine.

Abraham is there, as well as other faithful believers in God. He was seen comforting Lazarus_ at his bosom (giving him a welcoming hug) _ in Paradise - another name for heaven.

Abraham was not in heaven when Christ spoke those words, nor is he in heaven now. He's dead and in his grave.

 

[Wrangler]

It takes a very stubborn spirit to deny the fact that "The Rich Man and Lazarus" is a parable.

If you look up in the dictionary "private interpretation," one would expect to see @Ronald David Bruno's avatar.

 

[Beebster]

If you look up in the dictionary "private interpretation," one would expect to see @Ronald David Bruno's avatar.

Yes the post is full of private interpretations. But most Christians have that nasty habit. The irony though is that the very Patriarch, Abraham, who they claim is either in Heaven or some fabled waiting area, was very rich. Go figure.

 

[ProDeo]

In the modern world, one’s attention is not grabbed unless someone comes forward to communicate with him. The communication can be verbal or written, or through the news, or through our houses of worship. Without these means, the rest of us go about our merry way, ignorant of those who are in worse shape than we are.

A question arises in Luke 16:19–31…What exactly was the rich man guilty of? The story starts with Verse 19 which says, “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.” Is that a sin? Is it a sin to be rich? Did not God command Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 to “Be fruitful”?

On the other hand, we have Verses 20-21 which describes Lazarus as someone who is poor, covered with sores, and ‘desires to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table.’ Seems the poor man wasn’t exactly ambitious, nor was he assertive. Also seems the rich man’s table is within reach of Lazarus, considering Lazarus can eat the scraps that fell with ease to him. Is there any indication that Lazarus asks the rich man something like, ‘Do you have extra food for me to eat?’ or ‘Can you spare some money that I may buy my own food?’ For all the rich man knows, Lazarus is perfectly happy being where he is, and it’s apparent he gets enough nourishment from the scraps.

One may ask, ‘Does the rich man not have any decency to realize that Lazarus is much worse off than he is?’ Perhaps this rich man would have learned things from the world around him, furthering learn the decency and divine morality to feed the poor. Perhaps he was too preoccupied with being fruitful to learn these things.

To what extent can the rich man be held accountable for failure to do things that are second nature to the rest of us, like helping the poor and needy, if he does not know of these things? There is no indication in this story that he ever had such exposure. It is an issue that has found its way into the 20th century in which Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, totally ignorant of the needs of the poor and needy, was shot to death during the Russian Revolution. Seems ignorance can be as damning as the plague. Ironically, the Tsar’s ignorance may have prevented him from learning of the Rich Man story in the Bible.

What is a message that someone can walk away with from reading the Rich Man and Lazarus? It’s that if you are totally ignorant and oblivious of human nature, but you are made aware of Jesus and the Bible that reflects him, and you absorb the lessons enough to have faith in God through him enough to know that Jesus expects you to give aid to the poor and needy as he advises in Matthew 25:31-46, and you do so, you can join Lazarus in God’s Kingdom. Can we say that about certain leaders we hear about today?

In the parable the rich man are the Pharisees, the lovers of money, context in v14.

Luke 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@ Beebster

Are you a Jehovah Witness ... SDA ... or maybe a Universalist? If so, you are locked in and I'll be wasting my time debating this. But for the chance that you aren't, here you go.

If it was a parable, there would not be specific names of familiar people like Abraham and his spiritual location. Why describe two locations that exist after death in detail to symbolically mean something else if they did not exist?
Hades is mentioned many times by Jesus. He refers to it as the Gehenna, 11 times but directly and indirectly teaches about Hades/ Hell some 60 times. Are all those parables too? He teaches about Heaven ... is that an abstract, fictionalized location too.
What moral truth would be gained from something abstract? Jesus parables were always about common experiences that people could relate to and draw meaning out of. His parables did not use detailed descriptions of fictional, abstract territories.
The message to us is that this rich man died and went to a place of fire and torment. This wasn't his grave or tomb. He didn't become extinct when he died nor was he sleeping. He is consciously aware of his state of existence. He asks for only a drop of water since when he was living, the beggar only asked for scraps of food from him. Notice how his pride is no longer with him and he is humbled. Yet is it real humility or just another act of manipulation? He was hoping for mercy and to receive more than a drop. When he realized there was no relief for him in any way, he asked to send Lazarus to his brothers (real people living) to warn them of this place of torment. The message is straight forward. The last line points to a parallel of Jesus death and resurrection and how many will not believe Him either. But this alone is not the intent of the entire story. Judgments throughout the Bible have been with fire - literally. That is the final means by which the Lord will destroy the ungodly and at the end of time, earth and the heavens too."

Jesus was warning us of this place of torment. He used specifically a real person's experience to tell us that this place is for real!

Prior to Christ, the unfaithful and ungodly souls went to Sheol (much deeper than six feet). I would discuss this further, but for now, only briefly. The afterlife existed before Christ. Sheol (Hades) was divided and separated as the scripture states, by a great gulf or chasm. The Rich man was in the place of torment and Abraham and Lazarus were in Paradise. This was referred to as Abraham's Bosom. Those who lived by faith, like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, and all of the Old Testament saints, were there in Paradise. Abraham would be there greeting them with a hug (at his bosom) and their existence was at peace and in beauty. Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mt. of Transfiguration, right. You must wonder where they have been and where did they come from. Still another division of the Underworld, the Netherworld existed as well. The Bottomless Pit (Abyss or Tartarus) where fallen angels were kept. They were separate from the souls of humanity. This spiritual realm is outside of time. And so Jesus sacrifice was already, from God's foreknowledge, imputed to them. Jesus died and went down to Paradise (as he promised the thief next to him)

Most theologians translate Sheol as Hades, the underworld, the netherworld.
You do say people just go in the grave when they die, right? You must know that many Christians believe you have a soul/spirit that is conscious when you die and either goes to be with the Lord or to Hades (the Greek word for Sheol). Sheol is the grave, but much deeper. Sheol comes from the root "shaol", which means to ask, demand or require. Hades is therefore asking, demanding and requiring souls. Where did it emerge in scripture? Job is probably the oldest book. Follow these passages.
"Before I go -- and I shall not return - To the land of darkness and deep shadow, The land of utter gloom as darkness itself ..."Job 10:21, 22
This is not describing a six foot deep grave.
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? They are high as the heavens, what can you do? Deeper than Sheol, what can you know? Job 11:7, 8
Sheol is viewed by having depth, much deeper than six feet.
"The departed spirits tremble Under the waters and their inhabitants, Naked is Sheol before Him, And Abaddon has no covering." Job 26:5, 6
Here we have departed spirits that are trembling.

"Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God." Job 19:26
So here Job confirms that when he dies, he goes to the Lord as Stephen claimed as he was being stoned to death. Paul said, To be absent the body is to be present with the Lord. "Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of the deep darkness?" Job 38:17
Let me ask you, what gates is this passage referring to?
How about the story of God's judgment against 250 rebellious men in the congregation?
"As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under split open; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly. All Israel who were around them fled at their outcry, for they said, ' The earth may swallow us up!' Fire also came forth from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense." Numbers 16:31-35
Apparently, fire consumed them that came out of Sheol. I guess they didn't have to wait for Judgment Day?
"For the fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol, and consumes the earth with its yield, And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains." Deut. 32:22
This verse literally describes fire that comes from inside the earth and out of volcanoes.

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Matt. 16:18

 

[Beebster]

@ Beebster

Are you a Jehovah Witness ... SDA ... or maybe a Universalist? If so, you are locked in and I'll be wasting my time debating this. But for the chance that you aren't, here you go.

Maybe I'm just a person that believes Jesus Christ.
Are you able to be swayed or are you just exuding hypocrisy?

If it was a parable, there would not be specific names of familiar people like Abraham and his spiritual location.

Says who, the parable police?

And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a CERTAIN RICH MAN brought forth plentifully:
And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. (Luk 12:16-21)

Why describe two locations that exist after death in detail to symbolically mean something else if they did not exist?

So that those with eyes to see would understand and those without wouldn't understand.

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Of course he's not describing locations.

Hades is mentioned many times by Jesus. He refers to it as the Gehenna, 11 times but directly and indirectly teaches about Hades/ Hell some 60 times. Are all those parables too? He teaches about Heaven ... is that an abstract, fictionalized location too.

Hades is not Gehenna. And yes Jesus taught the masses in parables and most certainly talked using figurative language most of the time. Rarely did he speak plainly.

What moral truth would be gained from something abstract? Jesus parables were always about common experiences that people could relate to and draw meaning out of.

Sorry but that's just not true.
The parables are all about the same thing.

His parables did not use detailed descriptions of fictional, abstract territories..

Really?

Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: (Mat 21:33)

Sounds like a fairly detailed "fictional" vinyard.

The message to us is that this rich man died and went to a place of fire and torment. This wasn't his grave or tomb.

Well, I hate to tell you this but you got the wrong message.

He didn't become extinct when he died nor was he sleeping. He is consciously aware of his state of existence.

I'd say so since he's spiritually dead., and to this day no doubt.

He asks for only a drop of water since when he was living, the beggar only asked for scraps of food from him.

I tell you, If i was being tormented by fire I'd be calling all my chits in.

Notice how his pride is no longer with him and he is humbled. Yet is it real humility or just another act of manipulation? He was hoping for mercy and to receive more than a drop.

And you know this how?

When he realized there was no relief for him in any way, he asked to send Lazarus to his brothers (real people living) to warn them of this place of torment.

I'm guessing you think this is the Lazarus of Bethany that Christ brought back from the dead?

And, by the way, the rich man had five brothers.

The message is straight forward.

Actually it's a very sophisticated parable.

The last line points to a parallel of Jesus death and resurrection and how many will not believe Him either.

That is true.

But this alone is not the intent of the entire story.

No, but this is:

But many that are first shall be last; and the last first. (Mrk 10:31)

Jesus was warning us of this place of torment. He used specifically a real person's experience to tell us that this place is for real!

Why didn't he tell us that real person's name?
Do you know his name?

You do say people just go in the grave when they die, right? You must know that many Christians believe you have a soul/spirit that is conscious when you die and either goes to be with the Lord or to Hades (the Greek word for Sheol).

Yes I'm well aware that many Christians believe contrary to what the scriptures teach.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecc 9:5)

According to you, however, they know quite a bit.

Christ likens death to sleep:

He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. (Mat 9:24)

And about Lazarus of Bethany:

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. (Joh 11:11-13)

Then finally, Jesus speaks plainly:

Then said Jesus unto them PLAINLY, Lazarus is dead. (Joh 11:14)

And I can only imagine that some folks probably think the first thing Lazarus said was, "Hey Jesus, I met this Rich guy. He didn't give me his name but he had five brothers I'd really like to find.......

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: (Mat 21:33)

Sounds like a fairly detailed "fictional" vinyard

Householder > real, abstract
Vineyard > real, not abstract
Wine press, tower, could try > real, not abstract

Hades > real, nit abstract, not fiction

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Of course he's not describing locations.

The kingdom OF HEAVEN. HEAVEN IS A LOCATION.

Listen, you claimed in another thread that you weren't a JW. Okay. SDAs believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, not a created being, so you aren't one of them either.
Mormons believe that God is a family, as you described in another thread. ?
United Church of God and The Living Church of God hold this view as well. ?
Binitarian like Epi?
A Christadelphian maybe? I guess it's a big secret, what church you belong to. One should be proud if their faith, transparent, offer their testimony, identify with and belong to a Denomination
Or maybe you fear immediate labeling, condemnation, critism, so you choose to keep it private. Maybe you have a secret mission to dismantle the overwhelming view of 97+% of Christianity, the Trinitarianism and belief in Hades/Hell as a place of judgment. You'll fail!

Anyways, I do jot care to debate with non-Trinitarians, their views our skewed to me and it's just an exercise in futility. So, I'll pass. Thank you.

 

[Beebster]

Householder > real, abstract

"CERTAIN" Householder, kinda like "CERTAIN" Rich Man.
Maybe you'll catch on to how Christ speaks; maybe Christ will open your eyes.

Vineyard > real, not abstract
Wine press, tower, could try > real, not abstract

And where might they be?

Hades > real, nit abstract, not fiction

Hades is real, it's the state of death, not some location as the ancient Greeks teach. Perhaps you should worship the Greek God Hades.

The kingdom OF HEAVEN. HEAVEN IS A LOCATION.

Yeah? What planet is it on?

Listen, you claimed in another thread that you weren't a JW.

Nope, not JW, though they are very sincere and make some very good arguments.

Okay. SDAs believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, not a created being, so you aren't one of them either.

Nope. Christ was created and is still being created. Unless of course you don't believe you are a member of the body of Christ.

Mormons believe that God is a family, as you described in another thread. ?

Yup, God is a family, Hence Father, Son , Household "OF" God. But no I'm not Mormon.

United Church of God and The Living Church of God hold this view as well. ?

Good For them, but I'll be honest I don't really care who holds what view; not my thing.

Binitarian like Epi?

Nope. God is a family.

A Christadelphian maybe?

Nope.

I guess it's a big secret, what church you belong to.

Not really. I belong to the Church of the Body of Jesus Christ.
Does that help you?
Can you put me in a box and judge me now?

One should be proud if their faith, transparent, offer their testimony, identify with and belong to a Denomination

-Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Rev 18:4)

Or maybe you fear immediate labeling, condemnation, critism, so you choose to keep it private.

Not at all.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (Mat 5:11 )

Maybe you have a secret mission to dismantle the overwhelming view of 97+% of Christianity, the Trinitarianism and belief in Hades/Hell as a place of judgment. You'll fail!

It will take the second coming of Christ to dismantle "the overwhelming view of 97+% of Christianity, the Trinitarianism and belief in Hades/Hell as a place of judgment" but it's coming.

For MANY (97+%) shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Mat 24:5)

Anyways, I do jot care to debate with non-Trinitarians, their views our skewed to me and it's just an exercise in futility. So, I'll pass. Thank you.

As I said in my last post, you accuse others of being "locked in" but you yourself CANNOT BE SWAYED.

I'm thinking of a word that starts with the letter "H" and ends with "ypocrite."

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It takes a very stubborn spirit to deny the fact that "The Rich Man and Lazarus" is a parable.

And yet it's an actual account of the experiences of two men so it's not a made up story as the devil has convince the religious minded people so they can have an excuse to ignore Jesus' teaching on this topic.

 

[ProDeo]

And yet it's an actual account of the experiences of two men so it's not a made up story as the devil has convince the religious minded people so they can have an excuse to ignore Jesus' teaching on this topic.

So you think that when you die you will end up at the bosom of Abraham ?

I don't.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So you think that when you die you will end up at the bosom of Abraham ?

No, that was a temporary holding place where old testament saints went until the new birth became available

Jesus led them all out of there and took them to Heaven when He ascended

I'll be going to Heaven when I croak

My physical body will be "asleep" but I'll be awake and conscience in the presence of the Lord

Then later my body will be resurrected and glorified and I'll be in my glorified body just like Jesus is in now.

 

[Mark51]

In the modern world, one’s attention is not grabbed unless someone comes forward to communicate with him. The communication can be verbal or written, or through the news, or through our houses of worship. Without these means, the rest of us go about our merry way, ignorant of those who are in worse shape than we are.

A question arises in Luke 16:19–31…What exactly was the rich man guilty of? The story starts with Verse 19 which says, “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.” Is that a sin? Is it a sin to be rich? Did not God command Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 to “Be fruitful”?

On the other hand, we have Verses 20-21 which describes Lazarus as someone who is poor, covered with sores, and ‘desires to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table.’ Seems the poor man wasn’t exactly ambitious, nor was he assertive. Also seems the rich man’s table is within reach of Lazarus, considering Lazarus can eat the scraps that fell with ease to him. Is there any indication that Lazarus asks the rich man something like, ‘Do you have extra food for me to eat?’ or ‘Can you spare some money that I may buy my own food?’ For all the rich man knows, Lazarus is perfectly happy being where he is, and it’s apparent he gets enough nourishment from the scraps.

One may ask, ‘Does the rich man not have any decency to realize that Lazarus is much worse off than he is?’ Perhaps this rich man would have learned things from the world around him, furthering learn the decency and divine morality to feed the poor. Perhaps he was too preoccupied with being fruitful to learn these things.

To what extent can the rich man be held accountable for failure to do things that are second nature to the rest of us, like helping the poor and needy, if he does not know of these things? There is no indication in this story that he ever had such exposure. It is an issue that has found its way into the 20th century in which Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, totally ignorant of the needs of the poor and needy, was shot to death during the Russian Revolution. Seems ignorance can be as damning as the plague. Ironically, the Tsar’s ignorance may have prevented him from learning of the Rich Man story in the Bible.

What is a message that someone can walk away with from reading the Rich Man and Lazarus? It’s that if you are totally ignorant and oblivious of human nature, but you are made aware of Jesus and the Bible that reflects him, and you absorb the lessons enough to have faith in God through him enough to know that Jesus expects you to give aid to the poor and needy as he advises in Matthew 25:31-46, and you do so, you can join Lazarus in God’s Kingdom. Can we say that about certain leaders we hear about today?

Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31; and, taught lessons by telling this story through the means of parables or illustrations.-Matthew 13:34, 35; Luke 8:10.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple/fine linen, very self-righteous; and, were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy. Being neglected, they were hungering and thirsting for righteousness (spiritually ill); and, who appreciated their need of Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

This is a symbolic death of the rich man (Clergy class) and of Lazarus (common people class) pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually; and, they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham: God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers, after Pentecost, forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not spiritually feed the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things-things that clearly would merit his going to heaven.

Finally, “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) The resurrection of the dead did not start at that time.