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The Sabbath???

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Brett, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. Brett

    Brett New Member

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    Hello all. I would seriously like to hear what you all think of the Sabbath, the Lords day. When I read the Bible I can only find vague references to followers meeting on the first day of the week of which people say are clear evidences of change. There seems to be no real passage that says "the sabbath moved to the first day from the last".Now I am not a SDA or anything similar but have really struggled in the last 2 years to be able to say for certain which day is the 1. If I was a newy, read the Word, dont get told anything by anyone and am asked, then I would have to say Saturday because thats what I read. When Jesus said "pray that your flight be not in winter or on the sabbath day" he was talking of after he had left, been crucified. Christ gave no indication that the day would change.But, many great people of God have been Sunday worshipers!The Bible says that Gods Sabbath is everlasting. So which day is it and should we go back to the Saturday if it is the case? I have not really written anything on this subject because I honsetly still struggle with it.There must be 1 day which is it, the Word says that the Sabbath is to be honoured. Some say that it was only for the Jews themselves who had to honour it as such but if we are "engrafted" into the Jewish vine as the Word says then we in a sense become Jews, by adoption as the Word clearly says. If so then the argument of it being that the Jews only need to honour it becomes weak and wrong perhaps because we as Christians.... you get the drift. I would greatly appreciated any knowledge on the subject.Regards in the Lord, Brett.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well I can already tell you that RND being a SDA will give you an argument for Saturday. i and others can give other points of veiw but in the end you will probably be no less confused. and will have to draw your own conclusions. As you said Christians and Jews will be grafted together but this graft will not be complete untill the second coming and all Jews see Jesus Christ and realize that he is the Lord. For Christ is the only Way. so we are not held to Jewish law.the Hebrew word שַבָת ("šabbat" [1], read in English as shabbat) means "the [day] of rest (or ceasing)" and entails a ceasing or resting from labor. The institution of the Old Testament Sabbath, a "perpetual covenant ... [for] the people of Israel" (Exodus 31:16-17), was in respect for the day during which God rested As you can see and probably know it means a day of rest. With all the changes in times and days etc. I personally do not think God careswhich day we give honor to him only that we do. Just the same way he does not care what denomination you call yourself only that you follow his Word. Whether you choose your Rest Day on the Christian Sunday(called a day of the lord) or Saturday as the Jews and SDA. is of little matter to God.Now Rnd will give you that it is of utmost importance that to not follow it is to risk your salvation and even tie it to the Mark of the beast. I strongly disagree think that belief does not follow scripture. you can reseach it yourself heres a linkhttp://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/sda/adventi.htm
     
  3. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Be careful not to be legalistic.First, the Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday. Sunday was instituted as a day of worship among Christians only, and it was always separate from 'Sabbath'. Sunday was a day of praise because it was the day traditionally believed to be the day when Jesus was resurrected. Christians celebrated and worshiped on this day. However, for the earlier Jewish Christians, it was never meant to replace the sabbath day. The Sabbath is Saturday, and is a day of rest prescribed in the Old covenant.Now, here is what I meant about being careful concerning legalistic interpretations of the scriptures; you may think yourself in violation of the 10 commandments if you don't obey the sabbath.God has removed the law, we are not under that covenant anymore. Does that mean it's not valid? No, just that it's not all applicable. Most of the Levitical laws are not applicable, but they are still righteous. So, we must strive to go back and understand the laws in their contexts, and meditate on them to understand them.Check out Jeremiah 31:31-34 You will find that the Law was to be put on our hearts and in our mind in the new covenant. This includes the Ten commandments. The Jewish practice of prayer with the scripted Torah wrapped on their hands and forehead indicated that we were to know the Law, and do it diligently. Here Jeremiah tells us that we are to have the law, IN our minds and on our hearts, indicating that we are to understand the Eternal LAW, and love it by meditating on it day and night. So, what was the Sabbath? Why did God command it? Search out the Truth in the scriptures. Recall, though, that for you to take the attitude that you are bound by law to fulfill the sabbath, is to condemn yourself to justifying the flesh through the law even in light of the Gospel covenant. {Galatians 3:10, Galatians 4:21}It is as though you have accepted the Gospel, but become circumcised. This is perhaps out of reverence and fear of the Lord, but it is certainly misguided. The Sabbath is not for you, it was for the Jews of the Old Covenant. You may celebrate it if you wish, but do not misunderstand what you are doing. If you obey the sabbath, you are practicing righteous religion, but not in obedience. You are walking not in obedience, but in worship.Remember; Galatians 3:24
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Great post Tetra
     
  5. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;12638)
    Now Rnd will give you that it is of utmost importance that to not follow it is to risk your salvation and even tie it to the Mark of the beast.
    No more so than I would tell a brother who was involved in an adulterous relationship that he risked his salvation if he didn't stop.James 2:9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
     
  6. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Brett;12635)
    Hello all.
    Hello and welcome to this board.
    I would seriously like to hear what you all think of the Sabbath, the Lords day. When I read the Bible I can only find vague references to followers meeting on the first day of the week of which people say are clear evidences of change. There seems to be no real passage that says "the sabbath moved to the first day from the last".
    Brett, you have discovered one of Satan's most subtle and dangerous deceptions to the church.....the idea that the sabbath was 'done away with' and no longer valid.It hasn't changed. The sabbath is still the only day that God specifically bless and sanctified. No other day can make this claim, just the sabbath! :bible: Genesis 2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
    Now I am not a SDA or anything similar but have really struggled in the last 2 years to be able to say for certain which day is the 1.
    If you'd like more information on Seventh-day Adventism and some great Bible studies and information I might recommend these site:www.adventist.orgwww.amazingfacts.orgwww.itiswritten.comwww.sdanet.org
    If I was a newy, read the Word, dont get told anything by anyone and am asked, then I would have to say Saturday because thats what I read. When Jesus said "pray that your flight be not in winter or on the sabbath day" he was talking of after he had left, been crucified. Christ gave no indication that the day would change.
    How true!
    But, many great people of God have been Sunday worshipers!The Bible says that Gods Sabbath is everlasting. So which day is it and should we go back to the Saturday if it is the case? I have not really written anything on this subject because I honsetly still struggle with it.There must be 1 day which is it, the Word says that the Sabbath is to be honoured.
    There is, it's Saturday! Always has been, always will!
    Some say that it was only for the Jews themselves who had to honour it as such but if we are "engrafted" into the Jewish vine as the Word says then we in a sense become Jews, by adoption as the Word clearly says.
    Actually Abraham kept all of God's commandments and laws, so I would suspect that included the sabbath. See Genesis 26:5
    If so then the argument of it being that the Jews only need to honour it becomes weak and wrong perhaps because we as Christians.... you get the drift.
    The strangers and sojourners that lived in Isarel at the time the 10 Commandments were given to the Israelites were required to follow the sabbath command.
    I would greatly appreciated any knowledge on the subject.Regards in the Lord, Brett.
    Ask away! I'd be pleased to help answer your questions. [​IMG]
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (RND;12642)
    No more so than I would tell a brother who was involved in an adulterous relationship that he risked his salvation if he didn't stop.James 2:9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    Well I have already stated we do not agree on this. and I do not accept your precepts as Biblical. but that being said I will not debate you on the basis/foundations for your religion as I see no point and feel I it would be disrespectful to do so it is suffice to say I disagree. If others want too fine. if anyone has questions that are not about the SDA point of view please ask.
     
  8. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    well.. I said my peace I guess.I would only beg you to pray and to look into this scripturally. Read what Paul had to say concerning the law.. or better yet, go read leviticus yourself. It is truly a holy book, but ask yourself for every law; does it make more sense that God still expects this of me, or does it make more sense for Jeremiah's prophesy to hold true about the Brit Chadesha {New Covenant}? First, invision the law in our modern world; does it still work? Second, meditate on the law once you have informed yourself of the context. This latter leads one to truth.Recall that while the Corinthians were commanded to have their men cut their hair, the Jews of the Old Covenant who wanted to be set apart for God had to grow their hair long. Was this a contradiction? Did the Law change from the Old Covenant to the New? No, but truly we are Free. We follow the ETERNAL LAW. The Eternal LAW is Truth. The laws in scriptures are the dictation of the Eternal LAW, given context. In one context, 'x' is determined right, and in another 'x' is determined as wrong. Like eating certain meats. It's still wrong today in certain situations. The difference is that the Old covenant demanded obedience and knowledge of the written laws which are a key to understanding in our hearts the divine law which stands eternally. Now, in the Gospel, we are to understand the Divine Law, The Eternal LAW. Instead of 'doing' based on knowing, we are to Grow based on Loving. We have the Law IN OUR MINDS, guiding us always, as the word of God, the Law of God, is written on our hearts because of the sanctification of Messiah's blood.The Sabbath is a day sanctified by God in the Old Covenant. The apostolic teaching Never tries to remove it to another day, or replace it with another day. It is a part of the Torah {law}. It must be understood as a precept of the Torah.
     
  9. RND

    RND New Member

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  10. Brett

    Brett New Member

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    I must thank every single one of you for your help. I wont jump at this, like I said I have been struggling for a while with it in my mind, so I will take all this on board and read and pray for truth and guidance.I too must thank all of you for having me here. Where I live in Australia is a country town. I have tried to find a church who at least is in the majority % on track but alas none. Bring up just minor points of truth and you are immediately an outcast heretic. Its like if you dont go with the flow then just GO.This site is my only contact with Christians. I have two sisters who have recently accepted Gods truth but they live a fair way away. God has sure been kind to me and my wife. We have stumbled , fallen, failed, been without guidance or friends to rub shoulders with and yet He has never let us down and continually led us in His truths. So, if I at times are a bit full on then you now know why.Thanks to all.In the Lord Brett.
     
  11. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Picky picky picky {pardon the pun}I think, with respect, that you are mutilating what I have said. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is due to your misunderstanding.Read it over. I'm going to bed.Just a quick note; The Eternal Law dictated all the laws of scripture, not the other way around. The laws in scripture have to be first understood in their context to determine if they can apply. The Sabbath, does not apply. It is not a matter of picking and choosing, it is simply clear theology. Read some of the Church fathers. Their instruction, you will find, falls in line with mine.Ask yourself; what Laws apply and why? The answer should become clear to you that all of them are true, but they apply specifically to their contexts. If we are in the same context, we follow the same law, but if we are not, then the law has lost it's meaning... or do you avoid multi-fabric clothes?The divine word is written within you, look it up.
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Brett;12657)
    I must thank every single one of you for your help. I wont jump at this, like I said I have been struggling for a while with it in my mind, so I will take all this on board and read and pray for truth and guidance.I too must thank all of you for having me here. Where I live in Australia is a country town. I have tried to find a church who at least is in the majority % on track but alas none. Bring up just minor points of truth and you are immediately an outcast heretic. Its like if you dont go with the flow then just GO.This site is my only contact with Christians. I have two sisters who have recently accepted Gods truth but they live a fair way away. God has sure been kind to me and my wife. We have stumbled , fallen, failed, been without guidance or friends to rub shoulders with and yet He has never let us down and continually led us in His truths. So, if I at times are a bit full on then you now know why.Thanks to all.In the Lord Brett.
    Final note for now.I feel for you, my heart goes out for you, and I am thankful that you have come so far in your walk, which is obviously not an easy path. I want to say this; concerning the Sabbath; it was one of my major problems when searching for how to obey God. I would generally do it Sunday. I put away homework and video games, TV and all things. I spent the day in fellowship, or prayer, or study. It was in an effort to Obey God. I don't have any regrets about what I did, but I praise God for allowing me to mature in the faith and to see more clearly. I beg you to do what you feel is right, but to consider what I have said. Remember; Romans 14:5~Shalom Elechem
     
  13. RND

    RND New Member

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  14. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;12648)
    Well I have already stated we do not agree on this.
    What? You would tell an adulterous brother to stop?
    and I do not accept your precepts as Biblical.
    Well, I'd love to take credit for these 'precepts' but they aren't mine, their God's. He wrote the law, I just obey it.
    but that being said I will not debate you on the basis/foundations for your religion as I see no point and feel I it would be disrespectful to do so it is suffice to say I disagree.
    That was kind.
    If others want too fine.
    Cool, it's a great subject!
    if anyone has questions that are not about the SDA point of view please ask.
    What about the Biblical view?
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Brett;12657)
    I must thank every single one of you for your help. I wont jump at this, like I said I have been struggling for a while with it in my mind, so I will take all this on board and read and pray for truth and guidance.I too must thank all of you for having me here. Where I live in Australia is a country town. I have tried to find a church who at least is in the majority % on track but alas none. Bring up just minor points of truth and you are immediately an outcast heretic. Its like if you dont go with the flow then just GO.This site is my only contact with Christians. I have two sisters who have recently accepted Gods truth but they live a fair way away. God has sure been kind to me and my wife. We have stumbled , fallen, failed, been without guidance or friends to rub shoulders with and yet He has never let us down and continually led us in His truths. So, if I at times are a bit full on then you now know why.Thanks to all.In the Lord Brett.
    you are so very welcome Brett falling and gettin back up makes us stronger its how we learnGod Bless to you and your family
     
  16. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;12658)
    Picky picky picky {pardon the pun}
    Yuk, yuk yuk. [​IMG]
    I think, with respect, that you are mutilating what I have said.
    Um, I merely quoted what you said and commented on what you said. If anyone mutilated your words I'm sorry to say it was you.
    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is due to your misunderstanding.
    Oh, I understood what you said, I just thought asking pointed questions about what you said would expose your lack of understanding. Mission accomplished.
    Read it over. I'm going to bed.
    Nighty, night!
    Just a quick note; The Eternal Law dictated all the laws of scripture, not the other way around.
    That would be the Eternal Word dictated the law of Moses and spoke or wrote all other commandments.
    The laws in scripture have to be first understood in their context to determine if they can apply. The Sabbath, does not apply.
    So we no longer have the 10 commandments but rather the 9 Commandments.That makes me wonder why God said "Remember....."Exodus 20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Maybe He knew people would forget......
    It is not a matter of picking and choosing, it is simply clear theology. Read some of the Church fathers. Their instruction, you will find, falls in line with mine.
    If it's not a matter of picking and choosing then it's a matter of following.
    Ask yourself; what Laws apply and why?
    Um, the 10 commandments?
    The answer should become clear to you that all of them are true, but they apply specifically to their contexts. If we are in the same context, we follow the same law, but if we are not, then the law has lost it's meaning... or do you avoid multi-fabric clothes?
    Huh?
    The divine word is written within you, look it up.
    So is the devine law, which includes the sabbath.
     
  17. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;12660)
    Final note for now.I feel for you, my heart goes out for you, and I am thankful that you have come so far in your walk, which is obviously not an easy path. I want to say this; concerning the Sabbath; it was one of my major problems when searching for how to obey God. I would generally do it Sunday. I put away homework and video games, TV and all things. I spent the day in fellowship, or prayer, or study. It was in an effort to Obey God. I don't have any regrets about what I did, but I praise God for allowing me to mature in the faith and to see more clearly. I beg you to do what you feel is right, but to consider what I have said.
    So now you just do your own thing?
    Remember; Romans 14:5
    Why, does it mention the sabbath?
     
  18. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Oh boy, aking for a fight are we?Very well, let's go a little deeper.First, let me make this clear; the Sabbath is no more special than any other day. Do you think worshipers of God in other cultures before the Jews worshiped on that day of the week, or even all had a seven day week? No, they did not.The problem you are having is that you don't have a proper understanding of the Law, the Torah. You said all the laws apply today, which is obviously not true. For example, multi-fabric clothing was considered sacreligious to wear. Check the tag on your shirt right now, is it 100% Cotton, or is it a Cotton Polyester mix? Now, why did such a seemingly ridiculous law exist? It's because it was a serious issue for the Jews.Recall please, that the Law was written by divine providence, with man's flaws in mind. The Law is simply put; watered down to be possible for people. Let us look at the evidence for this.This is why Jesus says that Moses only allowed divorce because of weakness ~Mark 10:4-5Justin Martyr also comments; “ I said also, that those who [in past times before the new covenant] regulated their lives by the Law of Moses would in like manner be saved. For what in the Law of Moses is naturally good, and pious, and righteous, and has been prescribed to be done by those who obey it; and what was appointed to be performed by reason of the hardness of the people’s hearts; was similarly recorded, and done also by those who were under the Law.”~Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 45 By reason of the hardness of peoples hearts... The Law, you see, was written to comply with man. So, Obeying it leads a man to life. However, understanding the law, having had it written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, leads one to freedom. The chains of Sin no longer hold us sway, not because we do not sin, but because we are no longer justified by obeying the Covenant laws of the Torah.If you argue that the 613 commandments throughout Torah are done away with with exception of the Sabbath, or the Ten, then I beg to differ. See, I am not saying that the Laws are abrogated at all, as Jesus tells us clearly; Matthew 5:17-18However, the Laws can't be obeyed fully. Eusebius Pamphili of Caesarea writes about this as well. Here;"THAT the enactments of Moses, as I said, were only applicable to the Jews, but not to all of them, and certainly not to the dispersed (among the Gentiles), only in fact to the inhabitants of Palestine, will be plain to you if you reflect thus. For the law of Moses says: |12 {18} "Thrice in the year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God." And it defines more exactly at what place they should all meet, when it says: "Three times in the year shall thy males appear before the Lord, thy God, in the place which the Lord shall choose." You see that it does not bid them meet in each city, or in any indefinite place, but "in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose." There thrice a year it enacts that they must assemble together, and it determines the times, when they must meet at the place where the rites of the worship there are to be celebrated. One season is that of the Passover, the second,' fifty days later, is called the Feast of Pentecost, and the third is in the seventh month after the Passover, on the Day of Atonement, when all the Jews still perform their fast. And a curse is laid on all who do not obey what is enacted. It is plain that all who were to meet at Jerusalem thrice in the year and perform their rites would not be able to live far from Judaea: but they live all round its boundaries. If then it would be impossible even for the lews whose home is the farthest from Palestine to obey their law, {19} it would be absurd to hold that it could be applicable to all nations and to men in the uttermost parts of the earth. Hear now in what way women after childbirth are bidden by the same Lawgiver to go and present their offerings to God, as follows: "And the Lord spake to Moses, saying, Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, Whatsoever woman shall have conceived and borne a male-child shall be unclean seven days.'' And he adds after saying something else: "6. And when the days of her purification shall have been fulfilled for a son or a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of a year old without blemish for a whole burnt-offering, and a young pigeon or a turtle-dove for a sin-offering to the door of the tabernacle of witness to the priest, 7. she shall present [them] before the Lord. And the priest shall make atonement for her, and shall purify her from the issue of her blood; this is the law of her who bears a male or a female." |13 Again, in addition to this the same law bids those who have contracted defilement by mourning or touching a corpse only to be purified by the ashes of an heifer, and to abstain from their accustomed work for seven days. This is what it says: "10. And it shall be a perpetual statute to the children of Israel and to the proselytes in the midst of them. 11. He that touches the dead body of any soul of man shall be unclean seven days, 12. shall be purified on the third day and shall be made clean on the seventh day. {20} And if he be not purified on the third day, and on the seventh day, he shall not be clean. 13. Every one who touches the dead body of a soul of a man, if he shall have died, and he be not purified, he has defiled the tabernacle of the witness of the Lord. That soul shall be cut off from Israel, because the water of cleansing has not been sprinkled on him. He is unclean, uncleanness is on him. 14. And this is the law: if a man die in a house, everyone that goeth into that house, and all the things that are in the house, are unclean seven days. 15. And every open vessel which is not bound with a fastening, shall be unclean; 16. and every one who shall touch on the face any man slain by the sword, or a corpse, or a human bone, or a sepulchre, shall be unclean seven clays. 17. And they shall take for the unclean of the burnt ashes of purification, and shall pour it into a vessel, 18. and shall take hyssop. And a clean man shall clip it, and sprinkle it on the house and the furniture and the souls that are therein, and on him that has touched the human bone, or the slain man, or the dead, or the sepulchre. 19. And the clean man shall sprinkle it on the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day, {21} and he shall wash his garments, and shall wash [his body] with water, and shall be unclean until the evening. 20. And a man, if he be defiled, and not purified, that soul shall be cast out of the congregation, because the water of purification has not been sprinkled on him; and this shall be a perpetual law to you." |14 When Moses made this law he even determined the ritual of the sprinkling with water. He said that a red heifer without spot must be completely burnt, and that a portion of its ashes must be cast into the water, with which those who had been defiled by a corpse were to be purified. Where the heifer is to be burnt, where the woman is to bring her offerings after childbirth, where she is to celebrate the other rites, is not in doubt. It is not to be done indifferently in every place, but only in that place which he defines. This is plain from his enactment, when he says: "And there shall be a place, which the Lord your God shall choose, in which his name shall be called upon, there shall ye bear whatsoever I bid you to-day." And he explains in accurate order, adding: "13. Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy whole burnt-offerings in any place, which thou mayst see, 14. but in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, in one of thy cities; there shall thou offer thy whole burnt-offerings, and there shall thou do whatsoever I bid you to-day." And he makes this addition: "{22} 17. Thou shall not be able to eat in all thy cities the tenth of thy corn and wine and oil, the firstborn of thy herd and thy flock, and all thy vows whatsoever thou hast vowed, and thy thank-offerings, and the firstfruits of thine hands. 18. But before the Lord shall thou eat it in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose for himself, thou and thy sons and thy daughter, and thy servant, and thy maid, and the stranger8 {1} that is in thy cities." And proceeding he confirms the statement, where he says: "But thou shall take thy holy things, if thou hast any, and thy vows, and shall come to the place, which the Lord thy God shall choose for himself.'' And again: "Thou shall tithe a tenth of all the produce of thy seed, the produce of thy field year by year. And thou |15 shall eat it in the place {2a} which the Lord thy God shall choose to have his name called on there." And then in considering what ought to be done if the place designated by him were far off, and the yield of fruit large, how the year's fruits for the whole burnt-offering could be carried to the place of God, he lays down the following law: "23. And if the journey be too far for thee, and thou art not able to bring them, because the place is far from thee, which the Lord your God shall choose to have his name called on there, because the Lord thy God shall bless thee; 24. and thou shall sell them for money, {2b} and shall take the money in thy hands, and shall go to the place which the Lord thy God shall choose. 25. And thou shall give the money for whalsoever thy soul desireth for oxen or sheep, or wine, or slrong drink, or for whalsoever thy soul desireth and thou shall consume it there before the Lord." And he again sets his seal on the actual place, when he says: "19. Every firstborn that shall be born of thy kine and sheep, thou shall offer the males to the Lord thy God; thou shall not work with thy firstborn calf, and thou shall not shear thy firstborn sheep: 20. thou shall eat it before the Lord year by year, {2c} in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, thou and thy house." Next notice how he arranges the celebration of the feasts, not anywhere in the land, but only in the appointed place. For he says: "Observe the month of new corn, and thou shall keep the Passover lo the Lord thy God, sheep and bulls, in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose." And he again reminds them, saying: "5. Thou shall not be able to sacrifice the passover {2d} in any of the cities which the Lord thy God gives thee; 6. But in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, to have his name called on there, thou shall sacrifice the passover at even at the setting of the sun |16 at the time when them earnest out of Egypt. 7. And thou shalt boil and eat it in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose." Such, then, is the law of the Feast of the Passover. Hear that of Pentecost: "9. Seven weeks in full shalt thou number to thyself, from when thou beginnest to put the sickle in the corn, 10. and thou shalt keep a feast of weeks to the Lord thy God, according as thy hand has power in whatsoever things the Lord thy God gives thee to bless thee. 11. And thou shalt rejoice before the Lord thy God, thou and thy son, and thy daughter, thy servant, and thy maid, {3a} and the Levite that is in thy cities, and the proselyte; and the orphan, and the widow that is among you, in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose for himself, to have his name called on there." And hear where he commands the third feast to be celebrated: "13. And thou shalt keep the feast of tabernacles when thou gatherest in from thy corn-floor and from thy wine-press, 14. and shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy servant, and thy maid, and the widow, {3b} in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose for himself." As he is so insistent on the selected place, and says so many times that they are to meet there in all their tribes and in all their families, the law could hardly apply to those living even a little way from Judaea, and still less to the nations of the whole world, especially as he allows no pardon to those who transgress his ordinances, and invokes a curse on those who do not carry them all out to the minutest detail, in the following words: "{3c} Cursed is he who continueth not in all things written in this law to do them." " Eusebius, Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 1, Chapter 3I know that was long, but I could not have said it better myself. He goes on for another few pages to finish his point, but I figured this would be enough.Now, consider what he is saying. Is he attacking the validity of the laws? Not in the least! However, he admits that it is impossible to keep the law, for if one breaks just one part of the law, they are guilty of breaking the whole thing. James 2:10Now, it is very clear that the Law is an entire body. It is only complete with all the 613 commandments, and the clear teaching of Torah to go along with them, so that understanding and wisdom may guide those under it {John 7:23}. To throw out the sacred festivals, such as Pentecost, but to keep only the Sabbath, is not doing the Law the justice it deserves. God prescribed the Sabbath just as much as he prescribed those festivals. Recall, however, that they were all made for man, and not man made for them. This includes the Sabbath; Mark 2:27So, in the law are prescribed rituals and festivals which are indispensable to those living under the guidance of the mosaic law. This includes first and foremost the Sabbath. However, the Gospel does not do away with the lesser important laws, but keep those more focused on. No, the Gospel does not do away with ANY of the laws. The Gospel simply allows one to understand them fully. Instead of knowing that we must grow our hair long and doing it, we are now to find why, and learn the true nature of the law.If not then the Laws within scripture would contradict, and some would need to take precedence over another. For example, with hair. 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 makes it clear that man is not to grow his hair long and pray in the congregation. However, within the Torah; Numbers 6:1-5.Do these contradict? Not at all! See, in one context, growing the hair was wrong, and in the other, it was righteous. Now, in observing the reason, we can meditate on it and grow in wisdom.Also consider, that in the first church council, where the Apostles decided upon which essential laws the Gentiles should at the time be made to follow, they decided on only four. Acts 15:1-21 {seriously, read it}.Those four did not include the Sabbath. Now, consider that the apostolic teaching was so clear that first, the Church in Palestine which James was bishop of, practiced the Sabbath, and the churches of Asia Minor set up by Paul, never did. When Jerusalem was destroyed there was no theological rearrangement which accounted for the Church at large not practicing the Sabbath. It was always quite clear that the Sabbath was for the Jews, just as was circumcision. The apostolic teaching was clear enough that no Church father was in confusion or disagreement on this issue. {And believe me, they were known to disagree on a great many things}. Now, People worshiping on Sunday were worshiping on what was known as 'The Lord's Day', and this was not the Sabbath. Yes, the Roman Catholic Catechisms after the council of Trent seem to clearly denote that the Roman Catholics believed the Sabbath day to have changed from Saturday to Sunday on the authority of the Church. They, however, have fallen into the same trap that you seem to have fallen into.This is what I meant about being careful to not be legalistic. We are children of the spirit. The Law of Moses was righteous, but it was only righteous given it's context. A different context means a different law. This is why the Law has always been subject to change; Hebrews 7:12.Sunday worship, the worship of 'The Lord's Day' had been confused and construed as the Sabbath for Christians. The Sabbath day is Saturday, and it is advised in accordance with the Torah. In fact, the Sabbath, and all other laws, are inseparable from the whole law.This is not a game of 'pick and choose', it is a matter of truth. The Law is our witness of God's guidance. To understand his guidance and to follow it is what we, in the New Advent covenant, are called to do. We are not simply to To put it bluntly; we are not to follow the Laws, but we are to follow the LAW. This Law is spoken of by Paul as such; "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them."~Romans 2:13-15 We are to have all of the requirements of the Law written on our hearts. But we are not to abstain from meat, or cloth, or shellfish. We are not called to be circumcised physically so as to comply with the laws, now we are called to be circumcised inside, making our heart itself stand as a symbol of the covenant. So, we are not under the laws, but live according to the LAW, the Eternal Divine law, which is attested to in the written scriptures. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 over carefully.Read Matthew 5, and you will see that Jesus explains the law. The law isn't an arbitrary set of rules that one must follow. Rather, the Torah is a guide to changing the heart from the inside out. This is why Deuteronomy 6:4-6 is the Shemah.In the end, the misunderstanding of the Sabbath comes from a misunderstanding of the Law, and it's place in our lives.~Shalom Elechem
     
  19. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Ezekiel 20:11-12Romans 14:5The Old Covenant established the Sabbath as a decree because it was to be a lasting sign to those under the law that they were not made pure by their own accord, but by the diligent practice of prescribed religion. No one day is more sacred to God. He didn't create the system of a seven day week anymore than he established the Jewish Calendar.
     
  20. RND

    RND New Member

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