The Scattering Of The Tribes Of Israel
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QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 4 2009, 05:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71819
The Scattering of the Tribes of Israel Jonathan BernisThere is much talk and speculation among Believers about the “Lost Tribes of Israel.” Who are these people? How did they get “lost?” To answer these questions, I need to give you a little bit of a history lesson and take you back to the time of Solomon…It was soon after the death of King Solomon, around the year 930 BC, that the Children of Israel (the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob) splintered into two Kingdoms as a result of irreconcilable conflicts:The Northern Kingdom - made up of 10 of the Tribes became known as the Kingdom of Israel, and the Southern Kingdom (which included Jerusalem) - made up of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, (and some from Levi…ordained as the priestly Tribe, the Levites) became known as the Kingdom of Judah.The Bible tells us that as a result of idolatry and failure to follow the commandments and precepts of Scripture, both Kingdoms eventually fell to foreign powers and were taken into exile. For the Northern Kingdom of Israel, this defeat and exile occurred around the year 722 BC, according to most historians. There is no record of their return: “For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them; Until the "LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants, the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.” (2 Kings 17:22-23)"The Southern Kingdom of Judah remained until 586 BC until they were defeated and taken into captivity by the Babylonians. For 70 years they were in exile in Babylon (known as the Babylonian Captivity), but unlike the Northern Kingdom that literally vanished, a remnant from the Southern Kingdom of Judah (under Nehemiah and Zarubabel) returned in 516 BC and rebuilt Jerusalem. All Jewish People today trace their lineage to the two Southern Tribes or the Tribe of Levi. Sadly exactly what happened to the 10 Northern Tribes is not known. There are many theories enough to fill a library. Some are bizarre and clearly false (like the British-Israel theory taught by one prominent American television Bible teacher until his death), while others are more feasible. In fact, where these descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob eventually ended up is so shrouded in mystery and intrigue that these ten Tribes have come to be known as the “Ten Lost Tribes of Israel!”It is likely that many of these exiled sons and daughters of Jacob intermarried, assimilated and were driven to the far corners of the earth. Actually, this was not by chance…God’s Word clearly recorded this would happen in the Book of Leviticus:“But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands … I will set my face against you …. and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you… I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you.” (see Leviticus Chapter 26:14,17,25) It seems that almost everywhere I have traveled in the world over the last two decades (over 40 countries to date) I always meet those who are convinced that their nation or ethnic group are descended from one of the Ten Lost Tribes! As the Encyclopedia Judaica so accurately states, “There is hardly a people, from the Japanese to the British, and from the Red Indians to the Afghans, who have not been suggested, and hardly a place, among them Africa, India, China, Persia, Kurdistan, Caucasia, the United States, and Great Britain.” (see Vol. 15, page 1006)As for the Southern Kingdom of Judah, while attention is primarily drawn to the remnant that returned and rebuilt the Land, in fact, many never returned from the Babylonian Captivity. And the remnant that did were scattered again in 70 AD by the Romans and dispersed throughout the Nations. Through the centuries, these dispersed Children of Israel wandered from one place to another looking for a place they could feel safe, a place to call home. As they were driven out of one country after another they tried to preserve their traditions and their heritage.Today we find that there are around 6 million Jews living in Israel but there are physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob dwelling in almost every nation on the planet. In fact, there are estimates that the total dispersed Jewish population is anywhere from 20 to 30 million!While the rest of the world might have lost these scattered “outcasts of Israel” - God certainly has not! In fact, I am convinced that in these Last Days He is now uncovering the descendants of these Tribes and gathering them back to Himself in order to fulfill His Word, for Jeremiah clearly states: “Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the LORD of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the LORD, then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the LORD, If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out below, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
My opinion is that Jonathan Bernis is like many Jews that take issue with Lost Tribes theory. They feel that to state that any other nations are the lost tribes is like muscling in on their territory. Well, at least he admits there are lost tribes. And if there's lost tribes, then he must realize that as a Jew he does not possess the birthright of Joseph, so therefore nobody's muscling in on the Jew's territory because they don't own that to begin with. It's the birthright people who were prophesied to bring the gospel to the world according to the covenants in Genesis. Now, if God scattered His people only to have non-Israelite Gentiles bring the gospel to the fallen world, then God lied thru His teeth. Here's one smart, Orthodox Jewish fellow who understands that God preserved the lost tribes as other nations >>> http://www.britam.org/Hope this is another error I set straight. I'll be back whenever I see one.Over and out.
The Scattering of the Tribes of Israel Jonathan BernisThere is much talk and speculation among Believers about the “Lost Tribes of Israel.” Who are these people? How did they get “lost?” To answer these questions, I need to give you a little bit of a history lesson and take you back to the time of Solomon…It was soon after the death of King Solomon, around the year 930 BC, that the Children of Israel (the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob) splintered into two Kingdoms as a result of irreconcilable conflicts:The Northern Kingdom - made up of 10 of the Tribes became known as the Kingdom of Israel, and the Southern Kingdom (which included Jerusalem) - made up of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, (and some from Levi…ordained as the priestly Tribe, the Levites) became known as the Kingdom of Judah.The Bible tells us that as a result of idolatry and failure to follow the commandments and precepts of Scripture, both Kingdoms eventually fell to foreign powers and were taken into exile. For the Northern Kingdom of Israel, this defeat and exile occurred around the year 722 BC, according to most historians. There is no record of their return: “For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them; Until the "LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants, the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.” (2 Kings 17:22-23)"The Southern Kingdom of Judah remained until 586 BC until they were defeated and taken into captivity by the Babylonians. For 70 years they were in exile in Babylon (known as the Babylonian Captivity), but unlike the Northern Kingdom that literally vanished, a remnant from the Southern Kingdom of Judah (under Nehemiah and Zarubabel) returned in 516 BC and rebuilt Jerusalem. All Jewish People today trace their lineage to the two Southern Tribes or the Tribe of Levi. Sadly exactly what happened to the 10 Northern Tribes is not known. There are many theories enough to fill a library. Some are bizarre and clearly false (like the British-Israel theory taught by one prominent American television Bible teacher until his death), while others are more feasible. In fact, where these descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob eventually ended up is so shrouded in mystery and intrigue that these ten Tribes have come to be known as the “Ten Lost Tribes of Israel!”It is likely that many of these exiled sons and daughters of Jacob intermarried, assimilated and were driven to the far corners of the earth. Actually, this was not by chance…God’s Word clearly recorded this would happen in the Book of Leviticus:“But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands … I will set my face against you …. and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you… I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you.” (see Leviticus Chapter 26:14,17,25) It seems that almost everywhere I have traveled in the world over the last two decades (over 40 countries to date) I always meet those who are convinced that their nation or ethnic group are descended from one of the Ten Lost Tribes! As the Encyclopedia Judaica so accurately states, “There is hardly a people, from the Japanese to the British, and from the Red Indians to the Afghans, who have not been suggested, and hardly a place, among them Africa, India, China, Persia, Kurdistan, Caucasia, the United States, and Great Britain.” (see Vol. 15, page 1006)As for the Southern Kingdom of Judah, while attention is primarily drawn to the remnant that returned and rebuilt the Land, in fact, many never returned from the Babylonian Captivity. And the remnant that did were scattered again in 70 AD by the Romans and dispersed throughout the Nations. Through the centuries, these dispersed Children of Israel wandered from one place to another looking for a place they could feel safe, a place to call home. As they were driven out of one country after another they tried to preserve their traditions and their heritage.Today we find that there are around 6 million Jews living in Israel but there are physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob dwelling in almost every nation on the planet. In fact, there are estimates that the total dispersed Jewish population is anywhere from 20 to 30 million!While the rest of the world might have lost these scattered “outcasts of Israel” - God certainly has not! In fact, I am convinced that in these Last Days He is now uncovering the descendants of these Tribes and gathering them back to Himself in order to fulfill His Word, for Jeremiah clearly states: “Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the LORD of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the LORD, then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the LORD, If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out below, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
My opinion is that Jonathan Bernis is like many Jews that take issue with Lost Tribes theory. They feel that to state that any other nations are the lost tribes is like muscling in on their territory. Well, at least he admits there are lost tribes. And if there's lost tribes, then he must realize that as a Jew he does not possess the birthright of Joseph, so therefore nobody's muscling in on the Jew's territory because they don't own that to begin with. It's the birthright people who were prophesied to bring the gospel to the world according to the covenants in Genesis. Now, if God scattered His people only to have non-Israelite Gentiles bring the gospel to the fallen world, then God lied thru His teeth. Here's one smart, Orthodox Jewish fellow who understands that God preserved the lost tribes as other nations >>> http://www.britam.org/Hope this is another error I set straight. I'll be back whenever I see one.Over and out.
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 6 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71949
QUOTE (tim_from_pa @ Apr 6 2009, 03:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71947
...Hope this is another error I set straight. I'll be back whenever I see one. Over and out.
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.May I say something to you in sincere? From since on this board in which God led me here. Since I've been on this board for exactly 2 years. Joined by this month and today's day... there is no hate on towards any person on this board... This board hates Satan's lies. The fact is nobody knows everything in God's Words. If someone claims to know everything, they are a liar. Some learns at a slower pace than others. Some faster than others, but it is no reason to make preconceive notions of a certain person.And who are you to say they are without love and mercy? Does any human (including me) can read one's heart and mind? I know I can't, by the post of some... I only see personal attack by those who do it with opinion rather than maturity and scriptures.What pushes them away from God is Satan lies as well... Hate is not the only thing that pushes people away from God. Each member of the Body of Christ came from different paths in their lives... If I may give you an advice... instead of trying to think what the person is in your mind... don't you think it's better to ask the person directly rather than getting mad and go a possible tangret? (sp?)I love you.
QUOTE (tim_from_pa @ Apr 6 2009, 03:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71947
...Hope this is another error I set straight. I'll be back whenever I see one. Over and out.
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.May I say something to you in sincere? From since on this board in which God led me here. Since I've been on this board for exactly 2 years. Joined by this month and today's day... there is no hate on towards any person on this board... This board hates Satan's lies. The fact is nobody knows everything in God's Words. If someone claims to know everything, they are a liar. Some learns at a slower pace than others. Some faster than others, but it is no reason to make preconceive notions of a certain person.And who are you to say they are without love and mercy? Does any human (including me) can read one's heart and mind? I know I can't, by the post of some... I only see personal attack by those who do it with opinion rather than maturity and scriptures.What pushes them away from God is Satan lies as well... Hate is not the only thing that pushes people away from God. Each member of the Body of Christ came from different paths in their lives... If I may give you an advice... instead of trying to think what the person is in your mind... don't you think it's better to ask the person directly rather than getting mad and go a possible tangret? (sp?)I love you.
Hate ??????????????????????? what are you talking about? Seems I have cautioned you for your behavior ? Seems that if someone has an opinion other than yours.. its hate I guess ... We are serious about our scripture... If you call that hate ...guess you have to have that opinon.............. Tim happens to be very well versed in this subject, ..sorry if that offends you.
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 4 2009, 04:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71819
The Scattering of the Tribes of Israel Jonathan BernisThere is much talk and speculation among Believers about the “Lost Tribes of Israel.” Who are these people? How did they get “lost?” To answer these questions, I need to give you a little bit of a history lesson and take you back to the time of Solomon…While the rest of the world might have lost these scattered “outcasts of Israel” - God certainly has not! In fact, I am convinced that in these Last Days He is now uncovering the descendants of these Tribes and gathering them back to Himself in order to fulfill His Word, for Jeremiah clearly states: “Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the LORD of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the LORD, then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the LORD, If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out below, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
You are convinced correctly. The Lord is gathering them and bringing them over to Jerusalem for the removing of the remnant Jeremiah 31:7-8. Not every one out of every tribe will be in the 1000 yrs reign, though. God speaks clearly of only a remnant he is bringing in to make like the sands of the sea upon the earth.The whole chapter 31 of Jeremiah is much on the remnant that is saved out of this Age who will be removed here shortly.Then another group who are resurrected and face the 2nd death Jeremiah 8:1-3 they are removed from their graves and God has annulled their agreement from the 2nd death. (very scary)verse 2 says they will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will NOT BE GATHERED UP OR BURIED. (they've spoke about more in the following verses of chapter 8)They are brought up out of the grave and they have been made alive to await the coming of the Lord and the verses which the verses say are the scribes with the lying pen that are put to shame for their actions and they actually prefer the 2nd death, which they will face the fire from God. read carefull:Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past the summer has ended and WE ARE NOT SAVED. The harvesters called the angels have come and they have not been saved but brought up out of their graves to face the 2nd death. Read this and it hit me hard. Vickie
The Scattering of the Tribes of Israel Jonathan BernisThere is much talk and speculation among Believers about the “Lost Tribes of Israel.” Who are these people? How did they get “lost?” To answer these questions, I need to give you a little bit of a history lesson and take you back to the time of Solomon…While the rest of the world might have lost these scattered “outcasts of Israel” - God certainly has not! In fact, I am convinced that in these Last Days He is now uncovering the descendants of these Tribes and gathering them back to Himself in order to fulfill His Word, for Jeremiah clearly states: “Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the LORD of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the LORD, then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the LORD, If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out below, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
You are convinced correctly. The Lord is gathering them and bringing them over to Jerusalem for the removing of the remnant Jeremiah 31:7-8. Not every one out of every tribe will be in the 1000 yrs reign, though. God speaks clearly of only a remnant he is bringing in to make like the sands of the sea upon the earth.The whole chapter 31 of Jeremiah is much on the remnant that is saved out of this Age who will be removed here shortly.Then another group who are resurrected and face the 2nd death Jeremiah 8:1-3 they are removed from their graves and God has annulled their agreement from the 2nd death. (very scary)verse 2 says they will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will NOT BE GATHERED UP OR BURIED. (they've spoke about more in the following verses of chapter 8)They are brought up out of the grave and they have been made alive to await the coming of the Lord and the verses which the verses say are the scribes with the lying pen that are put to shame for their actions and they actually prefer the 2nd death, which they will face the fire from God. read carefull:Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past the summer has ended and WE ARE NOT SAVED. The harvesters called the angels have come and they have not been saved but brought up out of their graves to face the 2nd death. Read this and it hit me hard. Vickie
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 6 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71949
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friend
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friend
QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 10 2009, 10:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72307
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 6 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71949
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friendThat is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 6 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71949
The hate on the board is not bringing people to God but pushing them away. You might be right or you might be wrong, but you are without love and mercy and that cause people to rather stand back and stay with what they believe than to trust people like you.
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friendThat is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
QUOTE
Jordan says:That is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
No matter who has the truth in their post, what matters more is how it is presented not to cause a feud in their presenting it to others. That is the Christian WAY commanded to us all. Which way is the best, I give you an example of two ways of presenting and tell me which way gets their point across better and doesn't sin. I Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. 1.) Look you who come here, the sins of many are forgiven but if you live unrighteous lives you are gonna burn in hell fire, I know what God is saying. 2.) Christ died for our sins when he came in the flesh, His righteousness for our unrighteousness, that we would come to God. It is needful for us to understand what Christ has done for us that we not perish in the eternal fire that is coming upon the earth.See, what I mean? Maybe not the best example to give, but how we say something lays the ground work for how people will respond. A controversial subject such as this one can be told without bring insults to the people and not promoting sin ourselves. It has to be worked on but it is a must for us children of God. Thanks Vickie
Jordan says:That is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
No matter who has the truth in their post, what matters more is how it is presented not to cause a feud in their presenting it to others. That is the Christian WAY commanded to us all. Which way is the best, I give you an example of two ways of presenting and tell me which way gets their point across better and doesn't sin. I Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. 1.) Look you who come here, the sins of many are forgiven but if you live unrighteous lives you are gonna burn in hell fire, I know what God is saying. 2.) Christ died for our sins when he came in the flesh, His righteousness for our unrighteousness, that we would come to God. It is needful for us to understand what Christ has done for us that we not perish in the eternal fire that is coming upon the earth.See, what I mean? Maybe not the best example to give, but how we say something lays the ground work for how people will respond. A controversial subject such as this one can be told without bring insults to the people and not promoting sin ourselves. It has to be worked on but it is a must for us children of God. Thanks Vickie
QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 11 2009, 12:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72320
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 10 2009, 11:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72308
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friendThat is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
No matter who has the truth in their post, what matters more is how it is presented not to cause a feud in their presenting it to others. That is the Christian WAY commanded to us all. Which way is the best, I give you an example of two ways of presenting and tell me which way gets their point across better and doesn't sin. I Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. 1.) Look you who come here, the sins of many are forgiven but if you live unrighteous lives you are gonna burn in hell fire, I know what God is saying. 2.) Christ died for our sins when he came in the flesh, His righteousness for our unrighteousness, that we would come to God. It is needful for us to understand what Christ has done for us that we not perish in the eternal fire that is coming upon the earth.See, what I mean? Maybe not the best example to give, but how we say something lays the ground work for how people will respond. A controversial subject such as this one can be told without bring insults to the people and not promoting sin ourselves. It has to be worked on but it is a must for us children of God. Thanks VickieVickie, to be brutally truthfully being honest. In my previous post, I have agreed with you. After I have agreed with you, I also posted a couple other things... I also posted how I clearly saw in this very forum. I also posted as a warning sign... not just you... but everybody including me
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 10 2009, 11:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72308
It is a sad but true fact on all Christian forums, there will be "SOME" but not "ALL" who will cut another child of God down and it is against God. I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in "PART" and we 'PROPHESY" in part, but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When Christ the perfection comes, the imperfection of knowledge and prophecies will be understood. UNTIL THEN NONE OF USHAVE THE ANSWERS COMPLETELY. So we share in love and not to the point of insults ever.I Peter 3:8-9 Finally, all of you live in harmony with one another. be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil for evil or INSULT WITH INSULT, but with blessing, because to this you were called 'SO THAT YOU MAY INHERIT A BLESSING. We all must listen to this scriptures with the warnings to us. We must not destroy one another because of our different beliefs on prophesy or knowledge. Let us explain through scriptures why we believe what we believe, but remember a warning has been given to us not to have insult with insult, this is not a game we are playing, but a Lord who has instructed us on how to live towards one another. Hope this will encourage all of us what a serious act it is to throw insults. friendThat is true, we should not destroy each other because of different beliefs. However, some feel that the Truth destroys them but it in fact helps them, but they are so self-absorbed to others beliefs different to him/her, so decided to throw insults at them because he/she feels like they know everything. So he/she decided that we hate people and throw insults and false accusations. That's Satan's job, but everybody has their free will to do that or not.But the real thing that destroys people are believing in lies in itself... Lies may sound sweet, but it is hard to see if one does not know how to discern good and evil. Lies, in itself (if they believe in it) destroys himself/herself, even though they will not recognize it at all, until they can grow...
No matter who has the truth in their post, what matters more is how it is presented not to cause a feud in their presenting it to others. That is the Christian WAY commanded to us all. Which way is the best, I give you an example of two ways of presenting and tell me which way gets their point across better and doesn't sin. I Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. 1.) Look you who come here, the sins of many are forgiven but if you live unrighteous lives you are gonna burn in hell fire, I know what God is saying. 2.) Christ died for our sins when he came in the flesh, His righteousness for our unrighteousness, that we would come to God. It is needful for us to understand what Christ has done for us that we not perish in the eternal fire that is coming upon the earth.See, what I mean? Maybe not the best example to give, but how we say something lays the ground work for how people will respond. A controversial subject such as this one can be told without bring insults to the people and not promoting sin ourselves. It has to be worked on but it is a must for us children of God. Thanks VickieVickie, to be brutally truthfully being honest. In my previous post, I have agreed with you. After I have agreed with you, I also posted a couple other things... I also posted how I clearly saw in this very forum. I also posted as a warning sign... not just you... but everybody including me
QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 7 2009, 12:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71992
You are convinced correctly. The Lord is gathering them and bringing them over to Jerusalem for the removing of the remnant Jeremiah 31:7-8. Not every one out of every tribe will be in the 1000 yrs reign, though. God speaks clearly of only a remnant he is bringing in to make like the sands of the sea upon the earth.The whole chapter 31 of Jeremiah is much on the remnant that is saved out of this Age who will be removed here shortly.Then another group who are resurrected and face the 2nd death Jeremiah 8:1-3 they are removed from their graves and God has annulled their agreement from the 2nd death. (very scary)verse 2 says they will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will NOT BE GATHERED UP OR BURIED. (they've spoke about more in the following verses of chapter 8)They are brought up out of the grave and they have been made alive to await the coming of the Lord and the verses which the verses say are the scribes with the lying pen that are put to shame for their actions and they actually prefer the 2nd death, which they will face the fire from God. read carefull:Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past the summer has ended and WE ARE NOT SAVED. The harvesters called the angels have come and they have not been saved but brought up out of their graves to face the 2nd death. Read this and it hit me hard. Vickie
Jeremiah 3:11 concludes,"Faithless Israel has proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah."It was in the mercy of God that the Old Covenant focused largely on a small corner of the earth called Canaan or Palestine. The Old Covenant method of salvation was doomed to failure from the start, and so God limited its influence to a few. The rest of humanity remained in God's witness protection program. But with the establishment of the New Covenant, prophesied by both Moses and Jeremiah, the gospel broke free of its geographical constraints.In fact, it was because of persecution in Jerusalem that the Christians were scattered abroad. God used it to force them out of their limited scope and exclusive world view. No longer was He to be a local and tribal deity as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was now to be "the God of the whole earth" (Isaiah 54:5), taking His rightful place as the Creator of all.When the disciples were scattered abroad, God had already prepared the way before them. Israel had been deported by the Assyrians (745-721 B.C.) to the area around the Caspian Sea. By the time the disciples were scattered, Assyria had long fallen into ruin, and Parthia was now the superpower of the east, ruling from the border of the Roman Empire all the way to India. Many of Parthia's citizens were actually ex-Israelites of the dispersion. In fact, Parthia means "exiles" and may have gotten its name from the exiles of Israel.There was also a Jewish dispersion, since Jews had settled in many of the Roman and Greek cities. Many had also remained in Babylon. After 70 A.D. this Jewish dispersion was greatly increased by the war. But this is not to be confused with the Israelite dispersion which had occurred nearly 800 years earlier.The Christian dispersion, brought about by Jewish persecution, served to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth. It spread through Greece, Rome, Spain, Britain, and it also went east into Parthia and all the way to India. Among the new converts were ex-Israelites of the dispersion, who had lost their name Israel by this time. God saw to it, however, that the gospel was preached among those exiles, along with all others.Whether one was an ex-Israelite or not, there was only one way to come under the New Covenant. It was by faith in Jesus Christ, understanding that He was the only Sacrifice for sin that could satisfy the demands of the law. The law demanded a perfect life to be presented to God, and Jesus Christ fulfilled that demand. By faith, we all become His body and are able to participate in that presentation to God, as if we were perfect. By faith, God looks not on our own personal unrighteous state, but sees only the righteousness of Christ. Legally, then, we are considered perfect as if His righteousness were our own.This simple gospel was the "good news" available to all men equally and impartially. The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:10), but like the Old Covenant, anyone could become a citizen of Israel and Judah by faith. In fact, an ex-Israelite of the dispersion had to come into the New Covenant in the same manner as anyone else. He could not claim genealogy as a substitute for faith in Christ.Likewise, a Jew (Judean) could not claim genealogy in place of faith in Christ. The playing field was level, and the law was impartial. Faith was required of everyone equally. The disciples under the New Covenant began to rebuild the new nation of Israel, with Jesus Christ as its King. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the teaching about how to be a citizen of that Kingdom.More than that, once people have become citizens by faith, they begin to learn how to be obedient to the King. That means learning the laws of the Kingdom, so that we understand the will of God and how He views sin and righteousness. On an individual basis, it means being led by the Spirit, because the general principles of the law must be applied properly to each individual's life and calling.As the gospel spreads, and His Kingdom grows, it will inevitably involve claiming land itself. Since God is the Creator of all, He owns all things. His Kingdom was defined in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." His Kingdom includes all that He created--both heaven and earth. Therefore, the completion of the divine plan must include the earth, or as Paul says, "all things under His feet" (1 Cor. 15:27).Meanwhile, all who are citizens of Israel are "chosen" and called to build His Kingdom. There is a higher calling of rulership (authority) for those who go beyond citizenship. Citizenship comes through Passover; priesthood through Pentecost; and rulership through Tabernacles. But in each case, the reward fits the relationship with Jesus Christ. Genealogy is not a qualification at any level. This was the great lesson that astonished Peter when he discovered that the promise of the Father (Luke 24:49) was given also to "every nation" and that God was impartial in His blessings (Acts 10:34, 35).Logabe
You are convinced correctly. The Lord is gathering them and bringing them over to Jerusalem for the removing of the remnant Jeremiah 31:7-8. Not every one out of every tribe will be in the 1000 yrs reign, though. God speaks clearly of only a remnant he is bringing in to make like the sands of the sea upon the earth.The whole chapter 31 of Jeremiah is much on the remnant that is saved out of this Age who will be removed here shortly.Then another group who are resurrected and face the 2nd death Jeremiah 8:1-3 they are removed from their graves and God has annulled their agreement from the 2nd death. (very scary)verse 2 says they will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will NOT BE GATHERED UP OR BURIED. (they've spoke about more in the following verses of chapter 8)They are brought up out of the grave and they have been made alive to await the coming of the Lord and the verses which the verses say are the scribes with the lying pen that are put to shame for their actions and they actually prefer the 2nd death, which they will face the fire from God. read carefull:Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past the summer has ended and WE ARE NOT SAVED. The harvesters called the angels have come and they have not been saved but brought up out of their graves to face the 2nd death. Read this and it hit me hard. Vickie
Jeremiah 3:11 concludes,"Faithless Israel has proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah."It was in the mercy of God that the Old Covenant focused largely on a small corner of the earth called Canaan or Palestine. The Old Covenant method of salvation was doomed to failure from the start, and so God limited its influence to a few. The rest of humanity remained in God's witness protection program. But with the establishment of the New Covenant, prophesied by both Moses and Jeremiah, the gospel broke free of its geographical constraints.In fact, it was because of persecution in Jerusalem that the Christians were scattered abroad. God used it to force them out of their limited scope and exclusive world view. No longer was He to be a local and tribal deity as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was now to be "the God of the whole earth" (Isaiah 54:5), taking His rightful place as the Creator of all.When the disciples were scattered abroad, God had already prepared the way before them. Israel had been deported by the Assyrians (745-721 B.C.) to the area around the Caspian Sea. By the time the disciples were scattered, Assyria had long fallen into ruin, and Parthia was now the superpower of the east, ruling from the border of the Roman Empire all the way to India. Many of Parthia's citizens were actually ex-Israelites of the dispersion. In fact, Parthia means "exiles" and may have gotten its name from the exiles of Israel.There was also a Jewish dispersion, since Jews had settled in many of the Roman and Greek cities. Many had also remained in Babylon. After 70 A.D. this Jewish dispersion was greatly increased by the war. But this is not to be confused with the Israelite dispersion which had occurred nearly 800 years earlier.The Christian dispersion, brought about by Jewish persecution, served to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth. It spread through Greece, Rome, Spain, Britain, and it also went east into Parthia and all the way to India. Among the new converts were ex-Israelites of the dispersion, who had lost their name Israel by this time. God saw to it, however, that the gospel was preached among those exiles, along with all others.Whether one was an ex-Israelite or not, there was only one way to come under the New Covenant. It was by faith in Jesus Christ, understanding that He was the only Sacrifice for sin that could satisfy the demands of the law. The law demanded a perfect life to be presented to God, and Jesus Christ fulfilled that demand. By faith, we all become His body and are able to participate in that presentation to God, as if we were perfect. By faith, God looks not on our own personal unrighteous state, but sees only the righteousness of Christ. Legally, then, we are considered perfect as if His righteousness were our own.This simple gospel was the "good news" available to all men equally and impartially. The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah (Heb. 8:10), but like the Old Covenant, anyone could become a citizen of Israel and Judah by faith. In fact, an ex-Israelite of the dispersion had to come into the New Covenant in the same manner as anyone else. He could not claim genealogy as a substitute for faith in Christ.Likewise, a Jew (Judean) could not claim genealogy in place of faith in Christ. The playing field was level, and the law was impartial. Faith was required of everyone equally. The disciples under the New Covenant began to rebuild the new nation of Israel, with Jesus Christ as its King. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the teaching about how to be a citizen of that Kingdom.More than that, once people have become citizens by faith, they begin to learn how to be obedient to the King. That means learning the laws of the Kingdom, so that we understand the will of God and how He views sin and righteousness. On an individual basis, it means being led by the Spirit, because the general principles of the law must be applied properly to each individual's life and calling.As the gospel spreads, and His Kingdom grows, it will inevitably involve claiming land itself. Since God is the Creator of all, He owns all things. His Kingdom was defined in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." His Kingdom includes all that He created--both heaven and earth. Therefore, the completion of the divine plan must include the earth, or as Paul says, "all things under His feet" (1 Cor. 15:27).Meanwhile, all who are citizens of Israel are "chosen" and called to build His Kingdom. There is a higher calling of rulership (authority) for those who go beyond citizenship. Citizenship comes through Passover; priesthood through Pentecost; and rulership through Tabernacles. But in each case, the reward fits the relationship with Jesus Christ. Genealogy is not a qualification at any level. This was the great lesson that astonished Peter when he discovered that the promise of the Father (Luke 24:49) was given also to "every nation" and that God was impartial in His blessings (Acts 10:34, 35).Logabe
QUOTE (logabe @ Apr 11 2009, 07:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72350
As the gospel spreads, and His Kingdom grows, it will inevitably involve claiming land itself. Since God is the Creator of all, He owns all things. His Kingdom was defined in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." His Kingdom includes all that He created--both heaven and earth. Therefore, the completion of the divine plan must include the earth, or as Paul says, "all things under His feet" (1 Cor. 15:27).Meanwhile, all who are citizens of Israel are "chosen" and called to build His Kingdom. There is a higher calling of rulership (authority) for those who go beyond citizenship. Citizenship comes through Passover; priesthood through Pentecost; and rulership through Tabernacles. But in each case, the reward fits the relationship with Jesus Christ. Genealogy is not a qualification at any level. This was the great lesson that astonished Peter when he discovered that the promise of the Father (Luke 24:49) was given also to "every nation" and that God was impartial in His blessings (Acts 10:34, 35).Logabe
That is a lot of information you gave. We know that the 12 apostles have the promise given to them over the 12 tribes. Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. There are designations of office already promised, for the foundation has been laid, but what we will be has not been revealed individually for us, but we know that we have a place for the Saints that God has ordained and I believe it comes under Judging in some form, for as Paul said in I Cor 6:3-4 no ye not that ye will judge angels?Vickie
As the gospel spreads, and His Kingdom grows, it will inevitably involve claiming land itself. Since God is the Creator of all, He owns all things. His Kingdom was defined in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." His Kingdom includes all that He created--both heaven and earth. Therefore, the completion of the divine plan must include the earth, or as Paul says, "all things under His feet" (1 Cor. 15:27).Meanwhile, all who are citizens of Israel are "chosen" and called to build His Kingdom. There is a higher calling of rulership (authority) for those who go beyond citizenship. Citizenship comes through Passover; priesthood through Pentecost; and rulership through Tabernacles. But in each case, the reward fits the relationship with Jesus Christ. Genealogy is not a qualification at any level. This was the great lesson that astonished Peter when he discovered that the promise of the Father (Luke 24:49) was given also to "every nation" and that God was impartial in His blessings (Acts 10:34, 35).Logabe
That is a lot of information you gave. We know that the 12 apostles have the promise given to them over the 12 tribes. Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. There are designations of office already promised, for the foundation has been laid, but what we will be has not been revealed individually for us, but we know that we have a place for the Saints that God has ordained and I believe it comes under Judging in some form, for as Paul said in I Cor 6:3-4 no ye not that ye will judge angels?Vickie
QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 11 2009, 09:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72354
That is a lot of information you gave. We know that the 12 apostles have the promise given to them over the 12 tribes. QUOTE
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
There are designations of office already promised, for the foundation has been laid, but what we will be has not been revealed individually for us, but we know that we have a place for the Saints that God has ordained and I believe it comes under Judging in some form, for as Paul said in I Cor 6:3-4 no ye not that ye will judge angels?VickieTwelve is the number of governmental perfection and divine authority.In Daniel 7:9 , not only do we see God’s “seat” or throne from which He judges mankind, we also see “thrones” being set up. This speaks of more than one throne. Daniel does not tell us precisely how many thrones there are, but John does. Whereas Daniel concentrates upon the Ancient of Days Himself as the primary Judge, John sees the twenty-four elders judging upon thrones. Jesus alluded to this as well, saying in Matt. 19:28,28 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.The “Son of Man” is Jesus Christ Himself. He is the Ancient of Days who sits upon the throne judging the world. But yet the twelve apostles (with Paul in place of Judas) will also sit on thrones, as it were, in a lower court, judging the tribes of Israel.These elders do not wear diadems [Greek: diadema] as in Rev. 19:12, but victors’ wreaths [Greek: stephanos]. They are the same that Paul himself expected to receive (2 Tim. 4:8), and James 1:12 tells us that all the overcomers will receive one:12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown [stephanos] of life, which the Lord promised to those who love Him.And so the force of this word, stephanos, is not to portray little kings, but victors of a race. There are many who run this race, but only a few who win (1 Cor. 9:24), and these are called overcomers. To win, one must endure to the end, for 2 Tim. 2:12 says, “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.” Paul also tells us in verse 5,5 And also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize [brabeion, “a prize in the public games”] unless he competes according to the rules.Thus, there are more qualifications to being an overcomer than merely believing in Jesus Christ. A believer qualifies for immortality, but an overcomer qualifies to receive the prize of the highest calling of God (Phil. 3:14), which is to inherit the first resurrection and to rule and judge the earth in the Davidic Kingdom to come. These are given the stephanos, because it is the prize of one who has endured and finished the race to which he was called on earth.When Jesus addressed His disciples, He limited His scope to them, saying that they would sit upon twelve thrones. Yet John sees not twelve, but twenty-four elders around the throne, for this includes twelve from the Old Testament and twelve from the New Testament period. When Jesus told His disciples that they would sit on twelve thrones, this did not mean that there were only twelve thrones. Obviously, there are twenty-four, as John saw. And even then, there is no reason to limit it to twenty-four, because all of the overcomers are called to rule and reign with Christ (Rev. 20:6) and “the saints will judge the world” (1 Cor. 6:2). There will obviously be many thrones from which true justice will be a refreshing change to a world that is used to bribery, corruption, and unjust laws coming from earthly courts.Logabe
That is a lot of information you gave. We know that the 12 apostles have the promise given to them over the 12 tribes. QUOTE
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
There are designations of office already promised, for the foundation has been laid, but what we will be has not been revealed individually for us, but we know that we have a place for the Saints that God has ordained and I believe it comes under Judging in some form, for as Paul said in I Cor 6:3-4 no ye not that ye will judge angels?VickieTwelve is the number of governmental perfection and divine authority.In Daniel 7:9 , not only do we see God’s “seat” or throne from which He judges mankind, we also see “thrones” being set up. This speaks of more than one throne. Daniel does not tell us precisely how many thrones there are, but John does. Whereas Daniel concentrates upon the Ancient of Days Himself as the primary Judge, John sees the twenty-four elders judging upon thrones. Jesus alluded to this as well, saying in Matt. 19:28,28 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.The “Son of Man” is Jesus Christ Himself. He is the Ancient of Days who sits upon the throne judging the world. But yet the twelve apostles (with Paul in place of Judas) will also sit on thrones, as it were, in a lower court, judging the tribes of Israel.These elders do not wear diadems [Greek: diadema] as in Rev. 19:12, but victors’ wreaths [Greek: stephanos]. They are the same that Paul himself expected to receive (2 Tim. 4:8), and James 1:12 tells us that all the overcomers will receive one:12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown [stephanos] of life, which the Lord promised to those who love Him.And so the force of this word, stephanos, is not to portray little kings, but victors of a race. There are many who run this race, but only a few who win (1 Cor. 9:24), and these are called overcomers. To win, one must endure to the end, for 2 Tim. 2:12 says, “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.” Paul also tells us in verse 5,5 And also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize [brabeion, “a prize in the public games”] unless he competes according to the rules.Thus, there are more qualifications to being an overcomer than merely believing in Jesus Christ. A believer qualifies for immortality, but an overcomer qualifies to receive the prize of the highest calling of God (Phil. 3:14), which is to inherit the first resurrection and to rule and judge the earth in the Davidic Kingdom to come. These are given the stephanos, because it is the prize of one who has endured and finished the race to which he was called on earth.When Jesus addressed His disciples, He limited His scope to them, saying that they would sit upon twelve thrones. Yet John sees not twelve, but twenty-four elders around the throne, for this includes twelve from the Old Testament and twelve from the New Testament period. When Jesus told His disciples that they would sit on twelve thrones, this did not mean that there were only twelve thrones. Obviously, there are twenty-four, as John saw. And even then, there is no reason to limit it to twenty-four, because all of the overcomers are called to rule and reign with Christ (Rev. 20:6) and “the saints will judge the world” (1 Cor. 6:2). There will obviously be many thrones from which true justice will be a refreshing change to a world that is used to bribery, corruption, and unjust laws coming from earthly courts.Logabe
Wonderful history lesson on the Lost Tribes. I have read some place that when the first European explorers began to explore North America, they found the native people performing ceremonies similar to those of the the ancient Jews and shouting something that sounded very much like "Hallejuha!" Christians missionaries to this continent, or the possibility that native Americans could have descended from Joseph. And in the Scriptures, we read a reference to the nation or people of "the Isles." Could this be Graeat Britain, Scotland, Ireland?
Excuse the typos. I'm new on the forum. Is there a spell check? Did I overlook it?
There is 'some' connection with certain groups of native Americans and ancient Hebrew custom, but its source must be carefully weighed. I forget the name of the book, something about Sun Kings by a professor at University of Georgia? David Dean has an interesting work about ancient history of the Americas that might be of interest too. There's a connection with some ancient Canaanite-Hebrew words in some of the Toltec language of Mexico. There's also a possible connection with some of the Cherokee nation and their language.
Does that mean native Americans are the lost ten tribes of Israel? Not necessarily.
It's important to separate the theories of the mainstream schools of archaeology first, since the Harvard school adheres to theories of evolution, and has a political agenda against The Bible.
Through archaeological evidence, we know native American Indians did not originate in the Americas. They migrated over into North America, and then slowly migrated southward. If you remember your Bible history about the tower of Babel, God confused the one language all nations once spoke, and by that the nations were scattered to the four corners of the earth. Because ancient Canaanite-Hebrew words can be found in the languages of some American Indian tribes, that's a possible pointer to where they originally migrated from. It's also a possible pointer to what the one language was that all peoples spoke prior to the tower of Babel, some form of ancient Hebrew.
Or, it is a link to early influence by travellers to the Americas in ancient times, since there are artifacts in the Americas that reveal ancient Phoenecians, Greeks, Romans, and even Egyptians, once came to the Americas (see the Harvard trained archeologist Barry Fell's work 'America B.C.'? on ancient America, as he did not hold to the Smithsonian political agenda). There's quite a bit of ancient history in the Americas revealed from archaeological artifacts that most Americans have never heard about. And you won't hear about it either if you just read National Geographic and watch the Discovery Channel. Gloria Farley also did a well researched work on ancient America that is of interest.
What the Harvard mainstream school of archaeology calls this migration of various peoples into the ancient Americas is 'Diffusionism'. They are against it. They'd rather we believe no ancient travellers came to the Americas from other continents. The Kon Tinki raft experiment crossing the ocean showed how even a simple raft could make it across oceans. The Harvard school wants us to believe evolution, as if people suddenly appeared on separate continents like separate ponds of tadpoles, with no interaction between ponds. Noah's ark, if one believes it, should be enough for the Bible student to grasp that early peoples had knowledge of how joining wood planks together with some kind of filler in between can make a very floatable water craft, especially since water makes the wood expand and seal against the filler (caulking).
Concerning Tim's work on the ten lost tribes, I've read his posts here, and on other forums. He's pretty accurate.
And there IS an agenda by some orthodox Jews to condemn any work that teaches Britain is connected with God's promise of Ephraim becoming a multitude of nations (Gen.48). I don't hate the Jews, and I don't think Tim does either. But let's be real. Some of them have a very big problem with this matter of the migrations of the ten lost tribes to the West and the Isles. Does it mean they are correct just because they claim to be Jews? No. And if one wants to study Christian history in Europe of how unbelieving Jews have tried to attack Christianity in the past, maybe some of Martin Luther's writings would be in order. He rebuked them wholly. And of recent note, a Jewish leader from the Anti-Defamation League publically said that something needs to be done about modern Christianity in America, for it has become stronger through it's greater usage of media outlets.
Let's not be naive. The leaders of the unbelieving Jews are against Christianity, and some of them would like to utterly destroy it, and have led many of the Jewish people to work directly against Christianity. When Christ returns, all that is going to go away, and they will learn the Truth. But until then, we may expect persecution from them because of their blindness in ignorance, for as Apostle Paul said, there's a vail over their understanding until they turn to Christ Jesus, and concerning The Gospel they are enemies for our sakes (2 Cor.3:13-16; Romans 11:28).
And there IS an agenda by some orthodox Jews to condemn any work that teaches Britain is connected with God's promise of Ephraim becoming a multitude of nations (Gen.48). I don't hate the Jews, and I don't think Tim does either. But let's be real. Some of them have a very big problem with this matter of the migrations of the ten lost tribes to the West and the Isles. Does it mean they are correct just because they claim to be Jews? No. And if one wants to study Christian history in Europe of how unbelieving Jews have tried to attack Christianity in the past, maybe some of Martin Luther's writings would be in order. He rebuked them wholly. And of recent note, a Jewish leader from the Anti-Defamation League publically said that something needs to be done about modern Christianity in America, for it has become stronger through it's greater usage of media outlets.
Let's not be naive. The leaders of the unbelieving Jews are against Christianity, and some of them would like to utterly destroy it, and have led many of the Jewish people to work directly against Christianity. When Christ returns, all that is going to go away, and they will learn the Truth. But until then, we may expect persecution from them because of their blindness in ignorance, for as Apostle Paul said, there's a vail over their understanding until they turn to Christ Jesus, and concerning The Gospel they are enemies for our sakes (2 Cor.3:13-16; Romans 11:28).
Evidence does exist that many of the ten tribes of Israel migrated westward from Assyria into the lands of Asia Minor and western Europe, in stages.
In Iraq there's a mountain carving by king Darius of ten tribal chieftans bound together with Semitic features common to early Europeans. The Jehu Steele has inscriptions of what the Assyrians called king Omri of the house of Israel, a connection with the word khumri. Professor Leroy Waterman of the University of Michagan translated Assyrian Tablet reference to Israelites in captivity, the word gamera is the word origin of what the Assyrians called the Cimmerians.
And then anthropology has a long history of the Cimmerian peoples that migrated into Asia Minor and Europe in stages. The Scythians and Sacae have also been linked to the Cimmerian peoples. That's where the Celtic peoples came from. Someone sent me an article in one of Scotland's main newspapers about a DNA researcher who proved that the Saxons of England also are of the same root stock of the Celts. Normans and Gauls are also different names for the Celtic peoples, as also Germani and Norsk are from their migrations into Europe. The researcher showed northern Europeans are of all the same stock from the Cimmerians. The Celts, Welsh, Normans, Anglos, Saxons, Gauls, Norsk, Germani, Franks, Jutes, Picts, are all of the same roots. They are the Caucasian peoples that migrated across the Caucasus Mountains east of the Black Sea when coming into Europe. And they all... brought their various forms of Baal idol worship with them.
A major problem anthropologists have not been able to solve, is just 'where' all the Cimmerian peoples originated from the East. They know they came from the East by the archaeological evidence, but haven't been able to discover their original origin. I find that idea amazing, since the evidence of such a great number of peoples as the Cimmerians shouldn't be that difficult to trace their origin. Afterall, they well know the Cimmerians existed in the east as a different people. I think there's some denial going on among them, just like the Harvard mainstream school of archaeology and the Smithsonian has a political agenda to deny ancient travellers to ancient America. Can't have ideas that tend to support The Bible as Truth, so they're not going to cover much about the history of God scattering the ten tribes of Israel to Assyria and lands of the Medes near Armenia and Turkey.
Something else that's amazing, is that there's evidence for the sons of Zarah having migrated into western Europe also. The ancient capital of Spain was Zaragossa, a city that still exists today which translated means 'stronghold or fortress of Zarah. We see in Romans 15 that apostle Paul wanted to visit the brethren in Spain, and that may have been a connection with the people of Zarah. And the sons of Zarah in ancient Spain may have a connection with the Milesians that came from Spain and migrated to ancient Ireland (Hibernia) and Scotland (Alba). (Zarah was the other son of Judah and Tamar from Gen.38. The kingline of David came from Pharez, their other son. Zarah's hand came out of Tamar's womb first, and as was the custom to mark the firstborn, a scarlet thread was tied to Zarah's hand. But his twin brother Pharez came out of the womb first. God ordained the kingline to Judah for all generations, until Christ comes - Gen.49:10).
Albeit, God's Word defines what would happen to the ten tribes of Israel, with Ephraim as their head. A lot of it is prophesied in the Book of Hosea. But before that God through Jacob gave a prophesy to the sons of Joseph that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations", and that out of Jacob's seed would come "a nations, and a company of nations" (Gen.48; Gen.35).
Since God gave Jacob the new name of 'Israel', and the name Jacob was still used after that, to me that reveals the name Israel was to have a greater meaning in connection with God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. The Bethel stone, or Jacob's Pillar, also has a connection with the ultimate idea behind the name Israel, which means to prevail with God's help. God has a Birthright promise He gave through Abraham. And that promise was transferred down to Isaac, then Jacob, then Joseph, and ultimately to Joseph's two sons of Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5). That Birthright promise is what a lot of the comotion going on in this world today is about. The sons of Ishmael think it should be theirs, since Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, but not of Sarah which the Promise was to. Esau (Edom-Idumea) also thinks it should be theirs, since Esau was the firstborn of Isaac. Yet Esau sold God's Birthright to Jacob for a pot of beans, profaning it.
If one goes in-depth within the Book of Genesis of what God promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you'll see what all God's Birthright Promise contains. It's final resting place is still today upon the sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh. It involves a great number of literal seed, a blessing of great national wealth and resources and lands, great military power to rule the gates of their enemies, a kingline upon the throne unto all generations, and the rule of God's law among His people.
That is specifically what the prophecy of Ephraim becoming "a multitude of nations" is about (Gen.48). What Jacob was giving in Gen.48 with blessing Joseph two sons was about the transfer of God's Birthright Promise originally given to Abraham. In Gen.35, God had already given that promise to Jacob, telling him that from his seed would come "a nation, and a company of nations". If one understands about the split of Israel into two separate 'houses' per God's Word, then there it is. The house of Judah would be a nation in the holy land, while the ten tribed house of Israel under Ephraim would become a multitude of nations outside the holy land. Naturally, since Ephraim and Manasseh were to be named as part of Israel per Jacob's blessing and transfer of the Birthright, that "multitude of nations" points to Israelite nations.
So per God's Word, and in His sight, His Israel on earth would become a nation in the holy land, and a multitude of nations outside the holy land, just as it is today with the two houses of Israel still split. Both houses will eventually be joined back to the original lands of promise when Christ returns, for that's the timing of the following two-sticks prophecy...
Ezek 37:21-25
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God.
24 And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and My servant David shall be their prince for ever.
(KJV)
Since God gave Jacob the new name of 'Israel', and the name Jacob was still used after that, to me that reveals the name Israel was to have a greater meaning in connection with God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. The Bethel stone, or Jacob's Pillar, also has a connection with the ultimate idea behind the name Israel, which means to prevail with God's help. God has a Birthright promise He gave through Abraham. And that promise was transferred down to Isaac, then Jacob, then Joseph, and ultimately to Joseph's two sons of Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5). That Birthright promise is what a lot of the comotion going on in this world today is about. The sons of Ishmael think it should be theirs, since Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, but not of Sarah which the Promise was to. Esau (Edom-Idumea) also thinks it should be theirs, since Esau was the firstborn of Isaac. Yet Esau sold God's Birthright to Jacob for a pot of beans, profaning it.
If one goes in-depth within the Book of Genesis of what God promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you'll see what all God's Birthright Promise contains. It's final resting place is still today upon the sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh. It involves a great number of literal seed, a blessing of great national wealth and resources and lands, great military power to rule the gates of their enemies, a kingline upon the throne unto all generations, and the rule of God's law among His people.
That is specifically what the prophecy of Ephraim becoming "a multitude of nations" is about (Gen.48). What Jacob was giving in Gen.48 with blessing Joseph two sons was about the transfer of God's Birthright Promise originally given to Abraham. In Gen.35, God had already given that promise to Jacob, telling him that from his seed would come "a nation, and a company of nations". If one understands about the split of Israel into two separate 'houses' per God's Word, then there it is. The house of Judah would be a nation in the holy land, while the ten tribed house of Israel under Ephraim would become a multitude of nations outside the holy land. Naturally, since Ephraim and Manasseh were to be named as part of Israel per Jacob's blessing and transfer of the Birthright, that "multitude of nations" points to Israelite nations.
So per God's Word, and in His sight, His Israel on earth would become a nation in the holy land, and a multitude of nations outside the holy land, just as it is today with the two houses of Israel still split. Both houses will eventually be joined back to the original lands of promise when Christ returns, for that's the timing of the following two-sticks prophecy...
Ezek 37:21-25
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God.
24 And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and My servant David shall be their prince for ever.
(KJV)
What does all that mean for the Gentiles, and for the unbelievers of Judah?
Well, Judah should not be against the manifesting of those promises from God, for He has fulfilled what He said He promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, all except the children of Israel's final gathering of all 12 tribes back into "one nation", back to the lands He originally promised Abraham and their fathers.
Among the multitude of nations in the West under Ephraim, The Gospel Promise has been accepted by the majority, including many of the Gentiles and Judah. So it was for the sakes of both the ten tribes, and the Gentiles, that the house of Israel was scattered to the West. Both together have become great nations upon the earth, showing forth God's Birthright Promise. Many of Judah dwell with them in the West, and control much of the rule of law, and the throne in those nations, even today. All that was per God's Promises. God has ordained it, and who can go against God?
Among the West, there will always exist a remnant of Israel (ten tribes) that are given to understand this, whether the majority of Judah or the Gentiles do not. It is not actually for the majority to understand just yet. But all will in time, for realizing how God had scattered the majority of Israel to the West to become the western Christian nations is something that is ordained to be a major surprise for a lot of the world when Christ returns.
For those who are given to understand it already, this is why the leaders of the nations linked with Ishmael and Esau are at work against the Christian west, and against Judah in the holy land today. It's why we are given the specific nation list in Ezekiel 38 of which nations come against Israel in the last days just prior to Christ's return. Those nations involve the philosophies of communist socialism (Esau) and Islam (Ishmael), both joined in coming against God's people in the holy land, and in the Christian west, seeking to steal God's Birthright He promised to His Israel in both locations.
God is going to let Israel's enemies go only so far in their goal to destroy His people off the earth. We are to remain steadfast and patient, for He will come to save us. We may go into temporary captivity for the sake of God's purpose in teaching Christ's enemies a lesson they will never forget, but we shall never be destroyed as God's people. Many of our own leaders are being duped by Christ's enemies today, even Ephraim's princes, so God is going to use this time to give them a lesson they'll never forget too. Ezekiel 39 is God's testimony of this. Peace and Faith to all those who stand in Christ Jesus, of Israel and of all nations.
Well, Judah should not be against the manifesting of those promises from God, for He has fulfilled what He said He promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, all except the children of Israel's final gathering of all 12 tribes back into "one nation", back to the lands He originally promised Abraham and their fathers.
Among the multitude of nations in the West under Ephraim, The Gospel Promise has been accepted by the majority, including many of the Gentiles and Judah. So it was for the sakes of both the ten tribes, and the Gentiles, that the house of Israel was scattered to the West. Both together have become great nations upon the earth, showing forth God's Birthright Promise. Many of Judah dwell with them in the West, and control much of the rule of law, and the throne in those nations, even today. All that was per God's Promises. God has ordained it, and who can go against God?
Among the West, there will always exist a remnant of Israel (ten tribes) that are given to understand this, whether the majority of Judah or the Gentiles do not. It is not actually for the majority to understand just yet. But all will in time, for realizing how God had scattered the majority of Israel to the West to become the western Christian nations is something that is ordained to be a major surprise for a lot of the world when Christ returns.
For those who are given to understand it already, this is why the leaders of the nations linked with Ishmael and Esau are at work against the Christian west, and against Judah in the holy land today. It's why we are given the specific nation list in Ezekiel 38 of which nations come against Israel in the last days just prior to Christ's return. Those nations involve the philosophies of communist socialism (Esau) and Islam (Ishmael), both joined in coming against God's people in the holy land, and in the Christian west, seeking to steal God's Birthright He promised to His Israel in both locations.
God is going to let Israel's enemies go only so far in their goal to destroy His people off the earth. We are to remain steadfast and patient, for He will come to save us. We may go into temporary captivity for the sake of God's purpose in teaching Christ's enemies a lesson they will never forget, but we shall never be destroyed as God's people. Many of our own leaders are being duped by Christ's enemies today, even Ephraim's princes, so God is going to use this time to give them a lesson they'll never forget too. Ezekiel 39 is God's testimony of this. Peace and Faith to all those who stand in Christ Jesus, of Israel and of all nations.
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