The School of the prophets: God's rules

[michaelvpardo]

Michael V. Pardo

Perhaps you and others want more than God is willing to give. God said Abraham is a prophet. Perhaps that is a definition of a prophet, one who God declares to be a prophet. It's His choice.

And one who is a true prophet of God will not contradict the already revealed Word of God. The prophet speaks for God, not himself as a prophet. If God is inclined to spare Nineveh for another time, that is His decision. The prophet simply gives what he has been given. As Jonah did.

As I said earlier, the prophet comes with the 'plumb bob'; the 'plumb line'. And no one likes the prophet.

Stranger

True enough, but if God wasn't willing to give this information, why would he give any of His children the desire to know it?
You said, "the prophet speaks for God, not himself as a prophet" and this is true when the prophet is speaking as a prophet, but it would be foolish to think that everything that a prophet said was coming from God (and we see in Johan an example of taking away from God's word.)

 

[michaelvpardo]

I think the Scriptures do provide very specific descriptions of what a prophet is and how that prophet receives information from God (and how they do not!).
Below is a fairly extensive, but not comprehensive, list of verses pertaining to this subject. Notice that in almost every one of these descriptions of the prophet's call, one of three things happens:
1. The prophet has a powerful vision and SEES a vision of heaven or of the throne of God and is spoken to directly through that vision.
2. The prophet has a powerful dream in which God SPEAKS to them, revealing God's plan for the people.
3. The prophet HEARS an audible voice that is unmistakeable. In fact, Samuel thought someone was calling him and needed another prophet to inform him that it was the Lord. Also, the "man of God" received a very specific and direct word from God that was so specific that God killed him via a lion for not leaving immediately after his prophecy.

Also, notice that in these definitions of what a true prophet is and what a false prophet is, we see the following:
1. A true prophet actually hears/sees a message from God. A false prophet prophesies out of their imagination.
2. A true prophet's words are specific and will come to pass. A false prophet's predictions often are not and do not.
3. God's messages to the prophets were "secrets" or revelations that were not known to others. God revealed his hidden plans and purpose through them.

As a result of these very poignant and incredibly descriptive texts, I think it is clear that a prophet is one who has a heavenly vision, is spoken to in a dream, or hears an audible voice from God that reveals God's secrets and undisclosed revelations for his people concerning specific, upcoming events.

A prophet is NOT someone who speaks from their own spirit or presumes words from their own imaginations or impressions. Rather, these qualities are used to describe a false prophet.

Please see the texts below and make your own judgement concerning the definitions and descriptions of these prophet's roles and how they received their messages....

“And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the Lord make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream.” (Numbers 12:6, ESV)

“But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:20–22, ESV)

“And the Lord called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli and said, “Here I am, for you called me.” Then Eli perceived that the Lord was calling the boy. Therefore Eli said to Samuel, “Go, lie down, and if he calls you, you shall say, ‘Speak, Lord, for your servant hears.’ ” So Samuel went and lay down in his place.” (1 Samuel 3:8–9, ESV)

“And as they sat at the table, the word of the Lord came to the prophet who had brought him back. And he cried to the man of God who came from Judah, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Because you have disobeyed the word of the Lord and have not kept the command that the Lord your God commanded you, but have come back and have eaten bread and drunk water in the place of which he said to you, “Eat no bread and drink no water,” your body shall not come to the tomb of your fathers.’ ” And after he had eaten bread and drunk, he saddled the donkey for the prophet whom he had brought back. And as he went away a lion met him on the road and killed him. And his body was thrown in the road, and the donkey stood beside it; the lion also stood beside the body.” (1 Kings 13:20–24, ESV)

“Where there is no prophetic vision the people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.” (Proverbs 29:18, ESV)

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. I've been avoiding giving lists of scripture with specific references as they tend to require that a person go to each reference and read the entire passage in context to actually be sure that the verse makes sense. In John's gospel we have a statement which is troubling in the full context of scripture, because if we believe it, we have to re-evaluate what the scripture is saying in many passages of the Old testament: No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
This suggests, that even when we see passages that refer to Old testament saints seeing God, including those that speak about Moses talking to God face to face, they are referring to a limited interaction with "the only begotten Son".
I would agree that the prophets received most of the revelation in dreams and visions, but Moses was a clear exception in that regard. My mom, may she rest in peace, had dreams of seeing God or something like her conception of God speaking to her with a specific message, yet I don't think she was a prophet. I do know that she had a longing desire to see Jesus and perhaps that's why she had such dreams. When we consider what Moses revealed of God, through "face to face" interaction with God, we might be able to see that most of the revelation of the person of God came to us from Moses. The Prophets gave us many messianic passages, but most of what they said came from the books of the Law as a reiteration, application, and a call to repentance and consequently they revealed very little about the person and will of God that was new.
Did any prophet add to the law? Even Jesus, The Prophet proclaimed by Moses, and Himself the word of God made flesh, didn't come to add to the law, but to magnify it and fulfill it. People unfamiliar with the Old Testament often seem to think that Jesus was bringing some new and revolutionary teaching to the world, but Jesus was teaching the law in the power of the Holy Spirit, revealing God's grace from the same texts that teach God's holiness, justice, and judgment.
I've read through your own statements defining what a prophet is and isn't and while they are partially true, they are clearly not all true in every instance given in scripture. In mathematical terms they fail the test of being a tautology. Making a broad characterization that doesn't hold true for every instance, is a common means of thought, but also a common source of error. This is the reason for the discussion in the first place, misconceptions.
As an aside to the conversation, let me say that in a "forum" with various and diverse posts on multiple topics, we will typically choose to participate in a conversation that we have some personal interest in. The fact that we already have a personal interest means that we enter the conversation with preconceptions and this is just as true for the originator of the topic as those who participate. My goal in this endeavor is not to change your mind or anyone's mind for that matter, but to allow God to reveal through His saints which things we believe that are true and which are error, not by consensus but by the illumination of His word, and the unification of His body.
I deleted most of the scripture in the quote section, but found the last quoted verse of special interest because of the word "restraint." I wouldn't build a doctrine on one verse of scripture, but the verse brought to mind 2 Thessalonians 2:6 and meat for another discussion elsewhere in the forums.

 

[Stranger]

True enough, but if God wasn't willing to give this information, why would he give any of His children the desire to know it?
You said, "the prophet speaks for God, not himself as a prophet" and this is true when the prophet is speaking as a prophet, but it would be foolish to think that everything that a prophet said was coming from God (and we see in Johan an example of taking away from God's word.)

One is a prophet because God so declares him a prophet. Can that prophet speak contrary to what God wants him to say? Of Course. But, he is still a prophet of God.

Where in Jonah is there an example of Jonah taking away from God's word?

Stranger

 

[lforrest]

It is interesting that God's character means he never lies. Anything he says will surely come to pass. I makes it difficult to explain these examples of his manipulation. It must be manipulation because it is also written that God doesn't change his mind.

If he said Nineveh is going to be overthrown in 40 days that is what should have happened. Perhaps God considered the evil spiritual influences over Nineveh, and when they repented those were overthrown. So God is no liar, even if he manipulates others by withholding information.

This is why I don't believe in lying by omission. But it is possible that it exists if there is a prior agreement to reveal important info to an authority. Since there is no authority above God he is under no obligation to tell anyone anything.

 

[Stranger]

Iforrest

God is a God of love and mercy also. For Him not to destroy Nineveh was perfectly within His character, for Nineveh repented.

Stranger

 

[lforrest]

Iforrest

God is a God of love and mercy also. For Him not to destroy Nineveh was perfectly within His character, for Nineveh repented.

Stranger

If God does whatever he wants why did Jesus have to suffer and die on a cross? He could have said to the devil, get out, and saved everyone without Jesus needing to die. But God said,"without blood there is no remission of sins."

 

[Wormwood]

Michael, thanks for your kind reply.

This suggests, that even when we see passages that refer to Old testament saints seeing God, including those that speak about Moses talking to God face to face, they are referring to a limited interaction with "the only begotten Son".

I agree that the "visions" of God were in some way veiled. Since the "only begotten Son," is part of the Triune God, then I would say that even if it was the reincarnate Jesus that was being seen, he was not seen in his full glory, as you infer. Even Moses' face to face interactions with God were clearly veiled in some way, because God tells even Moses that "no one can see my face and live" (Ex. 33:20). Yet, clearly these visions were glorious ones that were so real that the prophets could quote exact messages declared from God.

I would agree that the prophets received most of the revelation in dreams and visions, but Moses was a clear exception in that regard.

Yes, Moses was a prophet, of sorts, but is also distinguished from prophets in that God spoke with him in a more direct fashion. Moses seems to be unique in this way. I certainly would not argue that a prophet, to be genuine, must have the same types of interactions with God that Moses had!

Did any prophet add to the law?

I am not sure what you mean by this. No, the prophet's role was not to add further revelation to God's Law. I believe the Law was given in a complete manner and was not intended to be subject to ongoing revelation. The prophets, rather, spoke directly to the people about God's plans for Israel and his judgments on the people as a result of their sin. Most of the prophets proclaimed God's grief over the people's sin and warned of specific judgments if the people did not repent.

I've read through your own statements defining what a prophet is and isn't and while they are partially true, they are clearly not all true in every instance given in scripture. In mathematical terms they fail the test of being a tautology. Making a broad characterization that doesn't hold true for every instance, is a common means of thought, but also a common source of error. This is the reason for the discussion in the first place, misconceptions.

Can you provide some specific Scriptures that show exceptions to the definitions and descriptions I provided? Where do you see a prophet in the Bible receive a revelation from God through a means other than a vision, audible voice or dream in which God speaks to them?

 

[Wormwood]

It is interesting that God's character means he never lies. Anything he says will surely come to pass. I makes it difficult to explain these examples of his manipulation. It must be manipulation because it is also written that God doesn't change his mind.

If he said Nineveh is going to be overthrown in 40 days that is what should have happened. Perhaps God considered the evil spiritual influences over Nineveh, and when they repented those were overthrown. So God is no liar, even if he manipulates others by withholding information.

This is why I don't believe in lying by omission. But it is possible that it exists if there is a prior agreement to reveal important info to an authority. Since there is no authority above God he is under no obligation to tell anyone anything.

forest,

First, I don't think it is accurate to say God doesn't change his mind. It seems Moses changed God's mind on multiple occasions through his prayers. I understand this poses challenges to clean theological boxes regarding divine immutability, as it does mine as well, yet I think the Scriptures indicate that our prayers really do move God and do not simply fall in line with God's predetermined plan. I am not a proponent of Open Theology, but I do think there are situations of God being swayed through the prayers of his people...and even the people of Ninevah. l think the verses you are thinking of regarding God not changing has more to do with his faithfulness and plan of salvation, and not so much that God can't relent if people cry for mercy. I mean, if this is not the case, than we have to really begin to question the narratives of the OT where God relents, changes his mind, sends deceiving spirits to prophets, and even praises and saves a prostitute for lying about the Israel spies. I think these issues don't always follow the black and white theological constructs we enjoy. Which begs the question, if you have someone hiding in your home and authorities come knocking on the door so they can kill the person simply due to their race or background...is deception the best way to honor God and his will?

 

[lforrest]

forest,

First, I don't think it is accurate to say God doesn't change his mind. It seems Moses changed God's mind on multiple occasions through his prayers. I understand this poses challenges to clean theological boxes regarding divine immutability, as it does mine as well, yet I think the Scriptures indicate that our prayers really do move God and do not simply fall in line with God's predetermined plan. I am not a proponent of Open Theology, but I do think there are situations of God being swayed through the prayers of his people...and even the people of Ninevah. l think the verses you are thinking of regarding God not changing has more to do with his faithfulness and plan of salvation, and not so much that God can't relent if people cry for mercy. I mean, if this is not the case, than we have to really begin to question the narratives of the OT where God relents, changes his mind, sends deceiving spirits to prophets, and even praises and saves a prostitute for lying about the Israel spies. I think these issues don't always follow the black and white theological constructs we enjoy. Which begs the question, if you have someone hiding in your home and authorities come knocking on the door so they can kill the person simply due to their race or background...is deception the best way to honor God and his will?

God can be moved but he also knows that he will be moved by his foreknowledge. But when we pray we have no knowledge of God's plans except a general idea from his word. If we didn't pray God would know that in advance as well. Whenever God relents, he has known he would do so beforehand. So he placed Moses in his way and made Jonah go to Nineveh. As for the deceiving spirit and Rahab, it appears God has no qualms with getting willing people to do the dirty work to accomplish his plans.

Rahab was righteous despite her lying, not because of it.

 

[Stranger]

If God does whatever he wants why did Jesus have to suffer and die on a cross? He could have said to the devil, get out, and saved everyone without Jesus needing to die. But God said,"without blood there is no remission of sins."

First of all, God does do whatever He wants. Because what He wants is always righteous.

Second of all, once within the framework of angels and fallen man, He must do, again, according to His righteous character. Thus requiring the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In other words, God is doing what He wants. And what He wants required the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

And, concerning Rahab, would she have been guilty of murder for telling the truth about the spies? For they definitely would have been killed. Or does your self righteousness make you feel good before God for telling the 'truth' and letting them die? It's a hard world we live in....isn't it?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

iforrest

You give me a warning yet don't respond to the question? You shouldn't be a moderator who engages in the discussion if you don't want to have to answer as everyone else does.

Stranger

 

[michaelvpardo]

One is a prophet because God so declares him a prophet. Can that prophet speak contrary to what God wants him to say? Of Course. But, he is still a prophet of God.

Where in Jonah is there an example of Jonah taking away from God's word?

Stranger

Actually, I'd heard preachers teach that Jonah changed the message and left out repentance, but looking at the book again (which I've read dozens of times) I couldn't actually find a place where God's message for Nineveh even included repentance, so perhaps "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!," was the entire message and these radio preachers just embellished the scripture to make their interpretation of the events fit (I've recognized some stretching of the truth on more than one occasion from the radio, but more typically over things like tithing or something which would benefit the growth of the ministry.)

 

[michaelvpardo]

Can you provide some specific Scriptures that show exceptions to the definitions and descriptions I provided? Where do you see a prophet in the Bible receive a revelation from God through a means other than a vision, audible voice or dream in which God speaks to them?

I'm not seeing a prophet receive revelation through other mechanisms in scripture except by God's finger writing (God wrote the ten commandments on the tablets that Moses provided with His finger (and did it twice.))
However, other participants in the discussion have already mentioned a few things which go against your list, one being that Jonah, one of God's genuine prophets, declared to Nineveh, "Yet 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown" and this just didn't happen.
Also we find in the book of Deuteronomy: 1. "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2. "and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you comes to pass, saying, `Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them,' 3. "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3
I realize that this is a kind of "IF/then" statement and could be called hypothetical, but God tells us here that He tests His peoples faithfulness to His name by allowing a prophet to arise, predict a sign or wonder successfully, and while trying to draw people away to worship other gods. Has this ever happened? We know from scripture that Pharaoh had court magicians that were able to duplicate at least some of the signs that Moses was given to perform by God as proof of his authority.
So, at least in a few examples we have seen false prophets (the magicians) perform signs that occurred and at least one of God's prophets predict something that didn't happen in the time frame predicted. Defining the prophet is easy if you just say that the prophet speaks for God, but the test of the prophet is not that what he predicts takes place (though it should) but whether or not He speaks in the name of God and according to the scripture (the revealed word of God.)
With regard to Moses uniqueness in speaking to God face to face, we also see Abraham speak to "the Lord" when he is visited prior to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. We see the same thing as well with Manoah's wife speaking with God prior to the birth of Samson (in the book of Judges.) I'm not sure that these are the only examples, but they come to mind readily.

 

[michaelvpardo]

iforrest

You give me a warning yet don't respond to the question? You shouldn't be a moderator who engages in the discussion if you don't want to have to answer as everyone else does.

Stranger

Stranger, no one really has to answer anything if they don't want to and I suspect that there are a number of miscommunications going on in the process. I haven't seen much of anything to disagree with you in these posts and there's nothing wrong with asking for clarification on a statement made by someone here, but there is a tendency for folks to bait each other on these forums when they don't get the responses that they anticipate or desire (I know that I've been guilty of as much.) So, lets try to play nice and make our posts pleasing to our Lord and edifying to the church. Please don't misunderstand, I have no desire to bait or annoy you, but I need to be reminded of these things myself, and I consider this line of study to be of primary importance to those that God will raise up as prophets in the "tribulation" period leading to Jesus' return.
So, if you have more to offer, please do, but I think that we would all prefer to see scriptural references of some sort in the presentation of any argument. We all have opinions, but these don't really carry any weight. The word of God, the scripture, is the source of our argument (or should be) as well as the source of our faith, so what does it matter if men disagree or perhaps misunderstand? There's no way to convince anyone of anything short of showing them and with some people, even that isn't enough or they wouldn't have crucified the Lord of Glory. Take care and may the Lord bless your efforts at making peace with all men (that's a tough one.)

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, no one really has to answer anything if they don't want to and I suspect that there are a number of miscommunications going on in the process. I haven't seen much of anything to disagree with you in these posts and there's nothing wrong with asking for clarification on a statement made by someone here, but there is a tendency for folks to bait each other on these forums when they don't get the responses that they anticipate or desire (I know that I've been guilty of as much.) So, lets try to play nice and make our posts pleasing to our Lord and edifying to the church. Please don't misunderstand, I have no desire to bait or annoy you, but I need to be reminded of these things myself, and I consider this line of study to be of primary importance to those that God will raise up as prophets in the "tribulation" period leading to Jesus' return.
So, if you have more to offer, please do, but I think that we would all prefer to see scriptural references of some sort in the presentation of any argument. We all have opinions, but these don't really carry any weight. The word of God, the scripture, is the source of our argument (or should be) as well as the source of our faith, so what does it matter if men disagree or perhaps misunderstand? There's no way to convince anyone of anything short of showing them and with some people, even that isn't enough or they wouldn't have crucified the Lord of Glory. Take care and may the Lord bless your efforts at making peace with all men (that's a tough one.)

Play nice to whoever you desire. Don't instruct me to.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Actually, I'd heard preachers teach that Jonah changed the message and left out repentance, but looking at the book again (which I've read dozens of times) I couldn't actually find a place where God's message for Nineveh even included repentance, so perhaps "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!," was the entire message and these radio preachers just embellished the scripture to make their interpretation of the events fit (I've recognized some stretching of the truth on more than one occasion from the radio, but more typically over things like tithing or something which would benefit the growth of the ministry.)

So, what is your point? And, where in the book of Jonah is there an example of Jonah taking away from God's word?

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

God can be moved but he also knows that he will be moved by his foreknowledge. But when we pray we have no knowledge of God's plans except a general idea from his word. If we didn't pray God would know that in advance as well. Whenever God relents, he has known he would do so beforehand. So he placed Moses in his way and made Jonah go to Nineveh. As for the deceiving spirit and Rahab, it appears God has no qualms with getting willing people to do the dirty work to accomplish his plans.

Rahab was righteous despite her lying, not because of it.

No, it was her deception that saved the Israelites...which saved her by virtue of saving them!

Consider these verses...

“Then the word of the Lord came to me: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares the Lord. Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.” (Jeremiah 18:5–10, ESV)

I agree that God foreknows our futures. I am not debating that. I just think that God can really intend to do something and change his mind because of the free will choices of people. God did relent because of Ninevah's repentance even though he intended their destruction. I don't think he was "withholding information." I think he really intended on destroying them but was swayed by their repentance and cries for mercy.

I just believe it is a bit of a mystery. I know God foresees our future, but I also know our prayers cause Him to move when he would otherwise not. It is not just a predetermined future with God pulling all the strings. He truly does let us choose and our choices make a difference in eternity.

 

[Wormwood]

I'm not seeing a prophet receive revelation through other mechanisms in scripture except by God's finger writing (God wrote the ten commandments on the tablets that Moses provided with His finger (and did it twice.))
However, other participants in the discussion have already mentioned a few things which go against your list, one being that Jonah, one of God's genuine prophets, declared to Nineveh, "Yet 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown" and this just didn't happen.
Also we find in the book of Deuteronomy: 1. "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2. "and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you comes to pass, saying, `Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them,' 3. "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3
I realize that this is a kind of "IF/then" statement and could be called hypothetical, but God tells us here that He tests His peoples faithfulness to His name by allowing a prophet to arise, predict a sign or wonder successfully, and while trying to draw people away to worship other gods. Has this ever happened? We know from scripture that Pharaoh had court magicians that were able to duplicate at least some of the signs that Moses was given to perform by God as proof of his authority.
So, at least in a few examples we have seen false prophets (the magicians) perform signs that occurred and at least one of God's prophets predict something that didn't happen in the time frame predicted. Defining the prophet is easy if you just say that the prophet speaks for God, but the test of the prophet is not that what he predicts takes place (though it should) but whether or not He speaks in the name of God and according to the scripture (the revealed word of God.)
With regard to Moses uniqueness in speaking to God face to face, we also see Abraham speak to "the Lord" when he is visited prior to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. We see the same thing as well with Manoah's wife speaking with God prior to the birth of Samson (in the book of Judges.) I'm not sure that these are the only examples, but they come to mind readily.

Michael,

First, let me agree with you on two counts. 1). I agree with you completely that signs are not the only indicator of a true prophet. I hope you did not get the impression from me that the only thing that matters is whether signs accompany the prophet. I think that is an important element for most prophets we see in Scripture (which is why the enemy often did counterfeit miracles when God spoke to his people in this way). However, it was still imperative to test their message with the revelation already provided from God. We know God does not contradict himself. So I agree with you there. Signs were not the sole determination of a true prophet. 2). I also agree with you that many of God's prophets gave conditional predictions. God's judgment was coming IF the people did not repent. Yet, my point is that if the people ignored the prophecy or the prophecy was not conditional...a true prophets message was always substantiated by God's moving as a result of the promise.

Now, my original point was to address the means by which a prophecy comes to a prophet...or how an individual is declared to be a prophet. We simply do not see, anywhere in the Bible, someone assigning to themselves the title of "prophet." God spoke to them, they didn't decide this for themselves because they felt very passionate about the impressions they had. Nor do I think the "school" of prophets was a place where someone went to learn it as a craft. Also, we do not see prophets prophesying out of their own gut feelings or imaginations....at least not true prophets. So, my point is simply this:
If someone claims to be a modern-day prophet, they must: 1) Have received a direct revelation from God via vision or voice (or I suppose God could write on a tablet or wall in a Belshazzar's palace), and 2) Have a message that comes true (unless a condition is met whereby the prediction is nullified).

So, I guess my question for you and any other person who claims to be a prophet today is, "Has God audibly spoken, and continues to speak a specific revelation to you to share with a person or group of people, or have you received a clear vision by which you were shown/told a message to share with a person or group of people?" If not, how is it that you determine yourself to be a prophet since that is what we see with every prophet narrative and description of how a prophet received their message in Scripture? If so, what is the specific message and to whom are you supposed to deliver it?

In my experience, pretty much every person who declares themselves to be a prophet claims their proclamations come to them as impulses in the moment or inclinations they have in a situation. This is simply not what we see with Biblical prophets (at least not those who are not declared to be false). Moreover, pretty much every "prophecy" I have heard is vague and a general regurgitation of Scripture that really has no specific predictive or prescriptive element. It may be a "biblical" thing they are saying, but I certainly wouldn't classify it as "prophetic." Finally, I have also heard many self-proclaimed prophets make predictions that do not come true. Of course they often have some rationale but rarely are such people held accountable or warned about speaking on behalf of the Lord things that have been false.

Anyway, those are my concerns I was trying to address.

 

[mjrhealth]

Funny thing about prophets, If a prophet warns the people to repent or else and they dont and teh event happens, he is hated for bringing violnece to them, if the event doesnt happen than He is despised as a failure and a liar, such is the world of the true prophet who walks alone with God,

 

[bbyrd009]

12After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.