The Seed of the Woman

[belantos]

The Seed of the Woman
by Shmuel Playfair
[edited for easier reading]

In Genesis we find God telling the serpent, "...I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed (offspring) and her seed (offspring). He will crush (pound) your head and you will strike (bite) his heel". [3:15] Many Christians claim that the promise regarding "the seed of the woman" crushing the head of the serpent is the first mention of the "virgin" birth. But actually, Eve is referred to here not as a "virgin" but rather as "the woman" (ha-eeshah) who was Adam's wife. His wife (woman) was not considered to be a virgin when any of her offspring were born.

These Christians go on to argue that their virgin born "Jesus" is the only one to ever crush Satan's head. Apparently, they missed what Paul writes to the saints, the beloved of God, in Rome: "For the report of your obedience has reached all people; therefore I rejoice over you; I want you to be wise to the good, but innocent of the evil. And the God of peace will soon crush Satan['s head] under your feet." [Romans 16:19-20] Obviously, *not* only the Messiah was expected to crush "the serpent's head". The promise was given that all of the offspring (zera = seed) of "the woman", Havah (who was not a virgin), would crush the adversary's head.

So also, in another Jewish source, the Aramaic translation of Genesis, we read: "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between the offspring of your sons and the offspring of her sons; and it shall be that when the children of the woman observe the commandments of the Torah, they will direct themselves to smite you on the head and slay you; but when the sons of the woman forsake the commandments of the Torah and do not obey its injunctions, you will direct yourself to bite them on the heel and afflict them. However, there will be a remedy for the sons of the woman, but for you, serpent, there will be no remedy. They shall make peace with one another in the end, in the very end of days, in the days of King Messiah". IOW, the Targum explains that "the seed (i.e. offspring) of the woman" refers to all of the woman's righteous descendants who do the will of their Father in heaven by observing the commandments of the Torah. So God's promise regarding the righteous offspring (seed) of the woman (who is not a virgin) applies to all her righteous descendants and not to the Messiah alone.

 

[veteran]

The Seed of the Woman
by Shmuel Playfair
[edited for easier reading]

In Genesis we find God telling the serpent, "...I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed (offspring) and her seed (offspring). He will crush (pound) your head and you will strike (bite) his heel". [3:15] Many Christians claim that the promise regarding "the seed of the woman" crushing the head of the serpent is the first mention of the "virgin" birth. But actually, Eve is referred to here not as a "virgin" but rather as "the woman" (ha-eeshah) who was Adam's wife. His wife (woman) was not considered to be a virgin when any of her offspring were born.

These Christians go on to argue that their virgin born "Jesus" is the only one to ever crush Satan's head. Apparently, they missed what Paul writes to the saints, the beloved of God, in Rome: "For the report of your obedience has reached all people; therefore I rejoice over you; I want you to be wise to the good, but innocent of the evil. And the God of peace will soon crush Satan['s head] under your feet." [Romans 16:19-20] Obviously, *not* only the Messiah was expected to crush "the serpent's head". The promise was given that all of the offspring (zera = seed) of "the woman", Havah (who was not a virgin), would crush the adversary's head.

The Gen.3:15 prophecy of the head of the serpent being bruised was about Christ's defeat of the devil per Hebrews 2:14...

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)


The phrase "He might destroy" in the Greek points to two ideas; 1) that Christ's death on the cross would render the devil of no effect upon Christ's servants, and 2) that it would destroy the devil, which is about the devil's eventual destruction in the "lake of fire".

 

[goodshepard55]

Amen veteran.....Thanks

 

[belantos]

The Gen.3:15 prophecy of the head of the serpent being bruised was about Christ's defeat of the devil per Hebrews 2:14...

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)


The phrase "He might destroy" in the Greek points to two ideas; 1) that Christ's death on the cross would render the devil of no effect upon Christ's servants, and 2) that it would destroy the devil, which is about the devil's eventual destruction in the "lake of fire".

What was the quest in the garden? Adam disobeyed, which means he was bitten by the serpent. The serpent or devil is the personification of our evil desires. All the righteous who resist temptation crush the serpent's head. Sure, in the Genesis story the Messiah is foreshadowed who will bring about a Kingdom of righteousness and thereby causing a fatal blow to the devil. How does one negate the other?

 

[Disciple]

i was thinking of the meaning of this verse earlier and remembered my mom telling me of a time she crushed the head of a snake, and then i remembered my grandma telling me a story of her crushing a snakes head also. and i thought maybe the meaning is simple, since the snake resembles the devil woman and snake are set against each other.

 

[belantos]

i was thinking of the meaning of this verse earlier and remembered my mom telling me of a time she crushed the head of a snake, and then i remembered my grandma telling me a story of her crushing a snakes head also. and i thought maybe the meaning is simple, since the snake resembles the devil woman and snake are set against each other.

The story is symbolic, it meant to teach us various spiritual truths, ie, why we struggle with sin ("serpent"), which we should overcome, even if occasionally we get bitten by it.

 

[veteran]

What was the quest in the garden? Adam disobeyed, which means he was bitten by the serpent. The serpent or devil is the personification of our evil desires. All the righteous who resist temptation crush the serpent's head. Sure, in the Genesis story the Messiah is foreshadowed who will bring about a Kingdom of righteousness and thereby causing a fatal blow to the devil. How does one negate the other?

"bitten by the serpent", now that is funny!

The story is symbolic, it meant to teach us various spiritual truths, ie, why we struggle with sin ("serpent"), which we should overcome, even if occasionally we get bitten by it.

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(KJV)

Rev 20:2
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(KJV)


Your explanations are about as 'symbolic' as Satan himself.

 

[belantos]

"bitten by the serpent", now that is funny!




Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(KJV)

Rev 20:2
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(KJV)


Your explanations are about as 'symbolic' as Satan himself.

Revelations is an apocalyptic book and shall be interpreted as such. For this reason it is very highly symbolic. For example, for the sound of a trumped the Temple in heaven is opened and the covenant is remembered. Then an angel comes out of the Temple and tells (shouts / commands) the son of man, who is sitting on a cloud, to go and harvest the world. And he casts his sickle.

Do you recall Paul saying that the Lord will descent with the sound of the trumpet, with a shout or command to gather his elect? This is what it is. Does the son of man (Jesus) literally sit on a cloud waiting for the command? No.

So it makes no sense to borrow the definition of Satan from Zoroastrianism and read it back into the scriptures. Satan is simply the adversary, just as your chess mate. His task is to adverse, to deceive, to trick you into doing wrong. Isn't that what they do on exams? How else can they test your knowledge? So in the bible Satan is God's faithful servant who carries out his will. See Job. Just because he does stuff that you consider nasty (ie tricking you to do wrong) it doesn't make him evil. He simply does the will of God - tests whether you are faithful.


Matthew 4:1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Mark 1:12 Immediately the Spirit impelled Him to go out into the wilderness.

Why would God deliver you up for temptation unless he wanted to test you? It is just like sending you to sit an exam. But this testing is on moral grounds.

 

[Duckybill]

Belantos, you have made it clear that you do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture. Do you just enjoy attacking it? What is your purpose here?

 

[belantos]

Belantos, you have made it clear that you do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture. Do you just enjoy attacking it? What is your purpose here?

Can you quote me stating that I "do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture"?

Else stop lying about what I stated.

 

[Duckybill]

Can you quote me stating that I "do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture"?

Else stop lying about what I stated.

You should read your own posts.
You wrote:

"The bible is NOT the word of God, that is an external definition."

Post # 207

http://www.christian...951#entry115951

 

[belantos]

You should read your own posts.
You wrote:

"The bible is NOT the word of God, that is an external definition."

Post # 207

http://www.christian...951#entry115951

I asked you the following:
"Can you quote me stating that I "do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture"?"

I did not ask you to show me that I don't accept the Christian definition of the printed book.

 

[Duckybill]

I asked you the following:
"Can you quote me stating that I "do not believe nor accept the NT as Scripture"?"

I did not ask you to show me that I don't accept the Christian definition of the printed book.

Already did:

You should read your own posts.
You wrote:

"The bible is NOT the word of God, that is an external definition."

Post # 207

http://www.christian...951#entry115951

 

[belantos]

Already did:

You should read your own posts.
You wrote:

"The bible is NOT the word of God, that is an external definition."

Post # 207

http://www.christian...951#entry115951

You are a difficult boy... It seems like you don't understand English.

The bible is a collection of inspired writings. When you read the terms in the bible like "word" of God those do not refer to the bible, but the Torah.

End of conversation.

 

[Duckybill]

You are a difficult boy... It seems like you don't understand English.

I do indeed understand English.

Isaiah 40:3 (NASB)
[sup]3 [/sup]A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the Lord in the wilderness; Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.

Matthew 3:1-3 (NASB)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now in those days John the Baptist *came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, [sup]2 [/sup]"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." [sup]3 [/sup]For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said, "THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE Lord, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"

The bible is a collection of inspired writings. When you read the terms in the bible like "word" of God those do not refer to the bible, but the Torah.

You don't even know the Torah. What's your point?

End of conversation.

You just said that, again.