The Terror Of The Lord!

[Duckybill]

2 Corinthians 5:11 (NKJV)
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

 

[Rach1370]

2 Corinthians 5:11 (NKJV)
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

I can't help but feel we've been here before, but I'll state my thoughts, just for the heck!!

'Fear' (2 Corinthians 5:11)
Strong's 5401
Original Word: φόβος, ου, ὁ
Transliteration: phobos
Definition: (a) fear, terror, alarm, (B) the object or cause of fear, (c) reverence, respect.
"Fear (5401 /phóbos) is commonly used in Scripture – sometimes positively (in relation to God) but more often negatively of withdrawing from the Lord (His will)."

"Fear" (Proverbs 1:7)
Strong's 3374
Original Word: יִרְאָה
Transliteration: yirah
Short Definition: fear, awesome, reverance
"Feminine of yare'; fear (also used as infinitive); morally, reverence -- X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear(-fulness)."

I won't do a study of every time the word 'fear' is used. But it is obvious that even though we could interpret the meaning of fear here as 'outright terror', we could also interpret it as respect, awe, reverence.
When we combine this with how many times God and Jesus tell us to "not be afraid" or "fear not", and the times we are told to love and trust God will all our hearts, minds and souls...I don't think it's a hard conclusion. We cannot love and trust that which holds us in terror.
Yes, we must be very aware that God is Sovereign Lord of the universe, that He alone has all power, majesty and glory. If we seek to set ourselves against His will, well, that's the height of stupidity, and I'd say in those cases the word 'fear' is undoubtedly meant as 'terror'!
But as His children, under the grace and blood of Jesus, we need not have terror that He will turn His terrible wrath upon us. As we continue to walk in His way, love His Son, repent of our sins and strive to grow closer to Him always, we needn't be afraid of him. Be in awe of Him always, but we can know we can run to Him, not away from Him in terror!

 

[Duckybill]

I won't do a study of every time the word 'fear' is used. But it is obvious that even though we could interpret the meaning of fear here as 'outright terror', we could also interpret it as respect, awe, reverence.

It wasn't obvious to the translators of our many English Bibles. They used the word fear. They knew about the Genesis Flood and the Lake of Fire.

 

[Rach1370]

It wasn't obvious to the translators of our many English Bibles. They used the word fear. They knew about the Genesis Flood and the Lake of Fire.

True, those events surely would have and will instil terror in those perishing....but if you will remember about the flood... Noah, who had righteousness in the eyes of God, was spared. As we are under Christ, we too have righteousness in the eyes of God. I fear the coming lake of fire for all the lost, and I hope many will come to faith, but I know I am safe...hence I do not fear.
Isn't that kind of the point....through faith we have the hope of everlasting life. In Christ we have no fear of hell.

 

[Duckybill]

True, those events surely would have and will instil terror in those perishing....but if you will remember about the flood... Noah, who had righteousness in the eyes of God, was spared. As we are under Christ, we too have righteousness in the eyes of God. I fear the coming lake of fire for all the lost, and I hope many will come to faith, but I know I am safe...hence I do not fear.
Isn't that kind of the point....through faith we have the hope of everlasting life. In Christ we have no fear of hell.

Well said, but Christians are also to fear God. Why? It helps to avoid sin. Don't you think?

 

[Rach1370]

Well said, but Christians are also to fear God. Why? It helps to avoid sin. Don't you think?

Well, I can't, in all honesty, answer for all Christians. But for me, no. I remember a time, years ago when I was an immature Christian, and I wasn't sure of my salvation. I was afraid then, and the fear was all about me. I was afraid that I would be sent to hell. But as I grew in my faith, I realised that the wonder of the gospel...the reason it's called "the good news" is because my salvation is dependant on Jesus' strength, His work, His life...not mine. So the reason I make every effort to live for Him, why I strive to root out sin in my life and kill it, the daily work of listening to the Holy Spirit...I do all that from gratitude, amazement and joy. What really stops me from sinning, what really brings me up hard...is the thought of Jesus' suffering on the cross. That moment, when He took my sin and every other sin, on His shoulders and God turned away from Him...that moment of anguish for Him. That kills me. That and the thought that every time I sin, I am breaking His heart anew. My sin grieves Him. That shames me, after all He has done for me. I love Him, love what He has done for me, and so I flee from sin out of that love, not fear.

 

[Duckybill]

Well, I can't, in all honesty, answer for all Christians. But for me, no. I remember a time, years ago when I was an immature Christian, and I wasn't sure of my salvation. I was afraid then, and the fear was all about me. I was afraid that I would be sent to hell. But as I grew in my faith, I realised that the wonder of the gospel...the reason it's called "the good news" is because my salvation is dependant on Jesus' strength, His work, His life...not mine. So the reason I make every effort to live for Him, why I strive to root out sin in my life and kill it, the daily work of listening to the Holy Spirit...I do all that from gratitude, amazement and joy. What really stops me from sinning, what really brings me up hard...is the thought of Jesus' suffering on the cross. That moment, when He took my sin and every other sin, on His shoulders and God turned away from Him...that moment of anguish for Him. That kills me. That and the thought that every time I sin, I am breaking His heart anew. My sin grieves Him. That shames me, after all He has done for me. I love Him, love what He has done for me, and so I flee from sin out of that love, not fear.

I can certainly find no fault in anyone who strives to please God. What bothers me is those who revel in being sinful.

 

[Rach1370]

I can certainly find no fault in anyone who strives to please God. What bothers me is those who revel in being sinful.

I would have to say (and I believe the bible tells us this) that anyone who revels in sin is not saved. We are told that if we are truly saved we hate sin and are to put it to death. We are to kill it!! That is a violent reaction against it! We should not revel in it, we shouldn't even be apathetic about it. If it us an affront to God, so it should be to us!

 

[Duckybill]

I would have to say (and I believe the bible tells us this) that anyone who revels in sin is not saved. We are told that if we are truly saved we hate sin and are to put it to death. We are to kill it!! That is a violent reaction against it! We should not revel in it, we shouldn't even be apathetic about it. If it us an affront to God, so it should be to us!

Amen indeed!

 

[Insight]

2 Corinthians 5:11 (NKJV)
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

Acts 14:15KJV

Are you a man of like passions Ducky? Like Elijah? James 5:17KJV

 

[jiggyfly]

I would have to say (and I believe the bible tells us this) that anyone who revels in sin is not saved. We are told that if we are truly saved we hate sin and are to put it to death. We are to kill it!! That is a violent reaction against it! We should not revel in it, we shouldn't even be apathetic about it. If it us an affront to God, so it should be to us!

Should we condemn others for it?

 

[Prentis]

Don't fear him, just revere him...

After all, he can't do much more than destroy both body and soul in hell, no big deal, he's only God...

:blink:

Psalm 119:120
My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments.

Men don't tremble out of reverence, guys! ;)

 

[Rach1370]

Should we condemn others for it?

Condemn?...I don't know, but tell me this...if a husband hits his wife, if a gang member knifes a man, if a man rapes a girl....am I to smile and say "well, no one's perfect!" We are not, cannot be okay with these actions. The actions are horrible to us, and we're not even God! But in reviling these actions, we still remember that behind them is a soul terribly lost and in desperate need of saving! Every single person out there, be their sin small on a social scale (sexually immoral) or large (murder) it is still sin to God. And yet He still calls out to them, and us, "come to me!" We cannot just say "sin is aberrant" and spout off accusations against it, we must also see the people behind the sin and try will all our might to give them the good news!

Don't fear him, just revere him...

After all, he can't do much more than destroy both body and soul in hell, no big deal, he's only God...

:blink:

Psalm 119:120
My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments.

Men don't tremble out of reverence, guys! ;)

Yes, He can destroy the body and soul in hell and yes, that is something to fear....if you are not a child of His. I do not fear hell, because I am told over and over that on that day of judgement, my evil deeds have been replaced with Christ's righteous ones. It's called Penal substitutionary atonement.

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" 2 Cor 5:21

I have been doing a bit of study on 'fearing the Lord', and I suspect I can learn still! I say revere the Lord, and I do mean that, but it is not quite enough! It feels like saying 'be a little wary of the tiger!'
But I still cannot come at true, gut wrenching, pee your pants terror! God Himself is the one who removes His wrath from us, He tells us to 'fear not' and to 'trust' and to 'love with all your heart, mind, soul and strength!'
I think that in a way fear does play a role in a born again person's life, but not as you might suppose...
What should we, as redeemed children of God, removed from His wrath fear? Unbelief. Our belief in Jesus is the very thing that has given us Salvation. It is belief that holds us fast to His love and His grace! We do not fear God because we rest in the all sufficient work of Jesus. But there are moments of hardship, of trial, when unbelief sneaks up and tempts us. At that moment a holy fear rises in us, warning us what a terribly foolish thing it would be to stop believing and trusting in the one who gave us His Son to die for us, to give us that very anxiety free, terror free joy.

 

[Prentis]

We both love and fear God. We approach him with faith because we know he loves and is merciful, but we fear his judgment because we know he is a king, and we must be faithful, and he judges, not us! I do think it's good to come to him with joy and faith, that is how we find him, but there is a fear involved. We must understand that he is almighty God, and he judges. :)

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If we have been grafted in, we can also be cut off. Again, knowing this, we are to fear.

[sup]19[/sup]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[sup]20[/sup]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

If a brother errs, he could suffer the second death, that of the soul!

We have not become God's favorites, we have become his servants, friends, and children. Servants because we are to serve and work, friends because he has revealed us his mysteries, and children because he loves us and chastises us. To us the fact we are children to cancel the requirements of the other roles we have is wrong.

 

[jiggyfly]

Condemn?...I don't know, but tell me this...if a husband hits his wife, if a gang member knifes a man, if a man rapes a girl....am I to smile and say "well, no one's perfect!" We are not, cannot be okay with these actions. The actions are horrible to us, and we're not even God! But in reviling these actions, we still remember that behind them is a soul terribly lost and in desperate need of saving! Every single person out there, be their sin small on a social scale (sexually immoral) or large (murder) it is still sin to God. And yet He still calls out to them, and us, "come to me!" We cannot just say "sin is aberrant" and spout off accusations against it, we must also see the people behind the sin and try will all our might to give them the good news!

Sorry Rach, I didn't specify, I meant should we condemn others to unending torment for it?

And yet He still calls out to them, and us, "come to me!" We cannot just say "sin is aberrant" and spout off accusations against it, we must also see the people behind the sin and try will all our might to give them the good news!

I really liked your comment here and it sure doesn't sound like God wants us to be afraid of Him. Which brings another question, at what time does God stop calling "come to Me"?

 

[Rach1370]

We both love and fear God. We approach him with faith because we know he loves and is merciful, but we fear his judgment because we know he is a king, and we must be faithful, and he judges, not us! I do think it's good to come to him with joy and faith, that is how we find him, but there is a fear involved. We must understand that he is almighty God, and he judges. :)

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If we have been grafted in, we can also be cut off. Again, knowing this, we are to fear.

[sup]19[/sup]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[sup]20[/sup]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

If a brother errs, he could suffer the second death, that of the soul!

We have not become God's favorites, we have become his servants, friends, and children. Servants because we are to serve and work, friends because he has revealed us his mysteries, and children because he loves us and chastises us. To us the fact we are children to cancel the requirements of the other roles we have is wrong.

Instead of going over this stuff again, can I instead ask you a question here? Do you fear Jesus? Are you afraid of the one who hung on a cross for us, showing that He loves us unto death?

Sorry Rach, I didn't specify, I meant should we condemn others to unending torment for it?

I would say that that is so completely not my call! For me to answer 'yes' or 'no' to that question is to be putting myself in the position of judge. You want me to comment on whether or not I fear God....well, maybe...if I was stupid enough to think for one second I can step into His place!!!!

I really liked your comment here and it sure doesn't sound like God wants us to be afraid of Him. Which brings another question, at what time does God stop calling "come to Me"?

Again, I have to say that's God's call. I do believe, however, as some people come to God on their death beds, that for those people, God never stopped calling "come to Me."
I think the real issue with this question is the whole 'election' thing....does the Bible teach that for some people, God just never issue's that call. I think that maybe it does. The thing for us mere humans, is that we cannot know who is elect and who is not. And so we must treat each and every person we come across as someone who may, at some point in the future, answer that call.

 

[Prentis]

I would say this, Rach. He is both my advocate and my judge (in the end). Yes, I do fear him, I know he is a master, and requires of me that I follow him, since I have set out to do so. If I deny him before men, he will deny me before the Father, he says.

Fearing him does not mean freaking out, it simply means to fear. The same way a child fears his father, knowing that if he does wrong, he might get punished. He loves his father, goes to him, sits on his lap, and is not fretting, but he does fear his father because he knows... We must understand, we have not yet attained (atleast not the far great majority of us.)

 

[Duckybill]

Acts 14:15KJV

Are you a man of like passions Ducky? Like Elijah? James 5:17KJV

 

[Rach1370]

I would say this, Rach. He is both my advocate and my judge (in the end). Yes, I do fear him, I know he is a master, and requires of me that I follow him, since I have set out to do so. If I deny him before men, he will deny me before the Father, he says.

Fearing him does not mean freaking out, it simply means to fear. The same way a child fears his father, knowing that if he does wrong, he might get punished. He loves his father, goes to him, sits on his lap, and is not fretting, but he does fear his father because he knows... We must understand, we have not yet attained (atleast not the far great majority of us.)

I don't necessarily disagree with this...but I have to wonder if you actually get the difference between the 'fear' you're talking about, and the thread title 'terror'. Have you ever been terrified of something? A phobia perhaps? Spiders? How about the dark when you were a kid? Terror overtakes you, it cannot be reasoned with and it consumes your mind...you'll do anything to avoid placing yourself in that place where terror lives. If a child had that sort of 'fear' towards his father, then we would suspect abuse. The sort of respect and 'fear' a child who is loved by his parents...disciplined but still loved...is a completely different matter. The child, while not really liking the discipline, still feels safe in receiving it. Their world is steady, safe and unshakable. So it is with our heavenly Father as well. There is 'fear', yes, but there cannot be terror. If God rules us with terror He is not the God who calls us to him with love...the one who tells us that full praise of Him, full revelling in His glory, only brings us freedom and joy.

 

[Prentis]

Maybe terror is a strong word. But the presence of the Lord, to the degree that it is experienced, brings with it BOTH a degree of comfort and fear. It says more than once that we tremble before the Lord. The greater the things he shows us, the more terrifying they are. This experience actually makes us grow as we learn to know the greatness of who he is, his calling, and his strength, that he can protect us from the thing we are warned of, which is so terrible.

I do believe that there is a place for terror before the Lord. :)

There is a time for everything.