The Times and The Seasons

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bbyrd009

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Wisdom. It makes sense. Davy was right about my reading into it what isn't there. I'll have to more cautious. Thank you, bbyrd009. What you shared was very insightful especially how it ties in with the mud and mire.
well imo don't be tossing any babies too early lol, that is also just the perspective of Some Guy right. Not sure what you are referring to as "read into" though, so i'd need a quote before i could comment there. I've kinda been following the exchange, and i agree with you for the most part fwiw
 

VictoryinJesus

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well imo don't be tossing any babies too early lol, that is also just the perspective of Some Guy right.

A perspective that aligns though. It doesn't appear to be one and not the other. Wisdom and judgement go hand-in-hand. Wisdom has to be present to judge, not as the world judges in wisdom, but in God's. He works in mysterious ways, for sure. Yesterday a car a quarter mile up the road from our house was hit. The car slid with air bags deployed and the drivers side car door ripped off a quarter mile until it came to a stop in front of our home. I happened to be outside when it happened, heard the explosion, and was the only one around to respond. I thought I would find someone seriously injured. The mother crawled out and her two children, twin boys. Not a scratch was on them. The oddity of the day was that after the fire department and paramedics left, the mother and her two boys ended up at our home. Not by my doing. She kept calling people to come get her to take her to the hospital to be checked out. No one ever came.

As her children played with our granddaughter I asked God, "what do you want?" Looking out the window I saw the mom sitting on the porch...she was crying. The first thing she said when I went out to sit with her was that they were already saying it was her fault. How she couldn't understand how she always ended up told she does nothing right. How she was so tired of life. It was obvious she had been convinced she was absolutely worthless. So, I(No He)got to tell her about being judged by the world and whose judgement really matters.

Forgot to say everyone in the other car was alright also. I never saw them since they we still up the road a ways. The paramedics said it was a work truck and they were okay.
 
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bbyrd009

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skypair

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On the 6th vial, our Lord Jesus also told His Church that He comes "as a thief", and the next 7th vial begins the battle of Armageddon, the final battle of this world (Rev.16).
I don't believe this, Rev 16:15, is a reference to the 2nd coming but to the pretrib rapture. Look at Rev 3:1-3 and see that if Sardis didn't repent, Christ would come on them as a thief .. but there were still some who had not defiled their garments and who would be (IMO) raptured. Also, 2Cor 5:1-4 where he talks about desiring to be raptured rather than die "naked."

skypair
 

Davy

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I don't believe this, Rev 16:15, is a reference to the 2nd coming but to the pretrib rapture. Look at Rev 3:1-3 and see that if Sardis didn't repent, Christ would come on them as a thief .. but there were still some who had not defiled their garments and who would be (IMO) raptured. Also, 2Cor 5:1-4 where he talks about desiring to be raptured rather than die "naked."

skypair

There is no word 'rapture' anywhere in God's Holy Writ. So overusing that word, just because that's often what those on the Pre-trib Rapture theory of man do, will not prove any kind of Biblical support. Apostle Paul used the Greek word harpazo for being "caught up", not rapture. and In 2 Cor.5:1-4, Paul was talking about the 1 Cor.15 event of being 'changed' at the twinkling of an eye, i.e., the resurrection. There is no pre-trib rapture idea taught in either of those two Scriptures.

The idea of the 'thief' that Jesus taught is at the end of Matthew 24.

Matt 24:42-51
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?


46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.


47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.


The night was divided into separate watch periods, like 2 hours each. Our Lord Jesus compared His coming to a thief breaking in one's home. If you know in what 'watch' the thief would come, then you would not allow your home to be broken into. It's a simple analogy. Those who know what watch the thief will come are compared to His Church.


We won't know the very hour, but we can know the watch. In 1 Thess.5, Paul pointed to the watch when he told us that "the day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Apostle Peter said the same in 2 Pet.3:10.


The below verses are for those who don't watch, and don't know in what watch the thief would come:


48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV



So when Jesus said at Rev.16:15 to His Church that He comes "as a thief", it means that His coming to gather His Church has NOT happened yet at that point on the 6th Vial.

I know the Pre-trib Rapture theory of men teaches that the Church is rapture out prior to the tribulation, and thus prior to the pouring out of the 7 vials of Rev.16. But those men are not keeping to God's Word as written.

So choose - either God's Word as written, or doctrines of men that cannot save.
 

Davy

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I don't believe this, Rev 16:15, is a reference to the 2nd coming but to the pretrib rapture. Look at Rev 3:1-3 and see that if Sardis didn't repent, Christ would come on them as a thief .. but there were still some who had not defiled their garments and who would be (IMO) raptured. Also, 2Cor 5:1-4 where he talks about desiring to be raptured rather than die "naked."

skypair

Here's the part about Jesus' Message to the Church at Sardis you referenced...

Rev 3:1-6
3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV


Jesus repeated what He taught about the season of His 2nd coming with coming upon the deceived among them "as a thief" because they were not watching, and thus would not know what hour (timing) He would come.

Notice there is nothing there to suggest that He comes to gather them prior to the great tribulation He warned of.


Rev 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
KJV


On the 6th Vial, Jesus is still warning His Church to keep their garments, which shows that His coming to gather His Church is on the 7th Vial, which is when the "day of the Lord" event will also occur "as a thief in the night" (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10).

These are but examples of the idea of "the times and the seasons" which Apostle Paul pointed in 1 Thessalonians 5 concerning the final day of this world when Jesus returns to gather His Church.