The timing of the 6th seal

[Harvest 1874]

I am sorry I did not quote a little more of the Genesis flood account. It reads,

Genesis 7 : 6: - 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth.

Genesis 7: 11-12: - 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

Genesis 8: 13-14: - 13 And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dried.

Notice please that the Waters began to flood the earth on the 17 day of the month, of the second month of the 600th year of Noah's life.

Also notice please that the waters were dried up from the earth on the 1st day of the 1st month of the 601st year of Noah's life and it was not until the 27th day of the second month of the 601st year of Noah's live.

From the above, it can be seen that the Ark was closed up for just over one year and that the flood was not over until the 601st year of Noah's life when God told Noah to leave the ark. In your link to your "blog", you reference Genesis 8:13 but you use the number 600 instead of the number 601 which is found in the Genesis 8:13 reference that you used for the flood being over.

It is an error, a very common error.

From Adam to the Flood

Adam lived 130 years and begat ... Seth”

Seth lived 105 years and begat Enos”

Enos lived 90 years and begat Cainan”

Cainan lived 70 years and begat Mahalaleel”

Mahalaleel lived 65 years and begat Jared”

Jared lived 162 years and begat Enoch”

Enoch lived 65 years and begat Methuselah”

Methuselah lived 187 years and begat Lamech”

Lamech lived 182 years and begat ... Noah”

Noah was 600 years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth”

Creation of Adam to the End of the Flood 1656 years

Many get confused as to how exactly to reckon the closing 600 years listed above. The flood episode lasted just over a year from beginning to end. The rains began “in the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month” (Gen 7:11), and the band of eight survivors left the ark the following year “in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month” (Gen 8:14).

”The 600th year referred to means 600 complete years had not yet passed. The conclusion of that year came later, and in fact the very first day of the next year numbered 601 is explicitly mentioned in the Genesis account. “And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year [of Noah’s life], in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth” (Gen 8:13). Thus we conclude that the full 600 years closed near the end of their flood experience.

In other words, there were 1655 years until the flood, and 1656 years until the flood ended.”

“Now although it is possible to approximate the year in which Noah was born (3072 B.C.) we cannot know for fact what specific month or day it was as this is not recorded in the scriptures.

In the 600th year of Noah's life (Gen. 7:11), he was 599 years old and sometime during that 600th year we know not exactly when, Noah turned 600 years old. We are not to erroneously conclude as some are inclined to suppose that on the very first day of the first month (Gen. 8:13) in his 601st year, that he turned 601 years old, but rather that he was just beginning the 601st year of his life; consequently up to that date he had lived 600 full years.”

Calendar Years

The method of dating experiences in the flood is by year, month, and day, each numbered and reported. The flood began on the 17th day of the second month of year 600. The years mentioned are the years of Noah’s life. But how were they reckoned?

They seem to be calendar years, because of the mention of numbered months and days. They do not seem to count from Noah’s birthday, as we reckon ages of people today for example. Presumably all of the years mentioned in the genealogy are of the same kind of reckoning, that is, calendar years.

This is consistent with the way reigns of kings of nations such as ancient Israel, Babylon and Assyria were reckoned. Calendar years were used, so that the number of the years of a king’s reign was incremented on the first day of a new year. It was not counted from the day he came to the throne, which could be any time during the previous year when the previous king died.

I will continue with my next post

 

[Harvest 1874]

The accession year system of the kings

“This practice consisted of commencing the official years of a king's reign with the day designated as New Year's Day on the local calendar. From the time a king ascended the throne until the first New Year's Day was considered a zero (or accession) year and was not counted as part of his reign. From the first New Year's Day to the next New Year's Day would be his first official year, even though he had actually reigned longer than this period.”

Possibly some “era” of years counted from the beginning and ran consecutively until the flood. But if this was so, there is no record of it in Genesis. The absence of such an “era” in the text suggests it was not the common practice, for if it were, such a convenient and widely used system would probably have been noted when dating the events in the flood narrative.

But with such long-lived patriarchs as lived before the flood, there was a ready-made method for accounting long periods of time in any given family, by numbering years according to the years of the patriarchs not just for the line from Adam to Noah, but for any family line. In this case, to avoid a duplicate number assigned to any given year, thus confusing the count over several generations, an easy custom could be used. When a child was born, simply count that year as the year of his birth, his year numbered “one” would commence on the following New Year day.

By this method, when the record says of Lamech, the father of Noah, that he lived 182 years to the birth of his son Noah, the year of that birth would be counted as the 182nd year of Lamech’s life, the year following would be the 183rd year of Lamech’s life and the 1st year of Noah’s life, the next the 184th year of Lamech’s life and the 2nd year of Noah’s life, etc. Over several generations, one could compute an accurate sum of years by merely adding the years reported in the genealogy as we have them in Genesis Chapter 5 or any genealogy various families may have kept before the flood.

But, was it so? The inference that it was is supported by examining the record of Methuselah, who incidentally was the longest living man in the record. Methuselah lived 187 years to the birth of Lamech, Lamech 182 years to the birth of Noah, and Noah 600 years until the end of the flood. The sum of these is 969 years the same as the lifespan of Methuselah.

But this sum of years takes us to the end of the flood. How could Methuselah live to the end of the flood, since he was not on the ark?

Using the calendar system above, it does work. The 969th year of Methuselah’s life would be the year in which he died.

That would be the same calendar year which began a month and seventeen days before the flood (Gen 7:11 i.e. the 600th year of Noah’s life). Evidently Methuselah died, very old even by the standards of that day, in the opening weeks of the year the flood came. On the other hand, if ages were counted in ancient times the way we count ages today that is, from one birthday to another, the years of one’s age incrementing only after that complete number of years had passed then Methuselah would necessarily have died in the 601st year of Noah’s life. This would be impossible, since it would mean he survived the flood, which no one did except the eight occupants of the ark.

“From Adam to the begetting of Methuselah was 687 years, and the full age of Methuselah is given as 969 years, which, together, make 1656 years, the time from Adam to the end of the flood.”

What is the point of this? It is to prove that the sum of years listed above, from Adam to the close of the flood, yields an accurate span of years from Creation to the Flood.”

(Excerpt taken from Faith-builders Fellowship Dec 2005, Page 11)

I will address the remainder of your post as soon as I am able, but I have several projects on the table right now, therefore I ask for your patience my brother.

 

[Jay Ross]

Noah was 600 years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth”

Creation of Adam to the End of the Flood 1656 years

Many get confused as to how exactly to reckon the closing 600 years listed above. The flood episode lasted just over a year from beginning to end. The rains began “in the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month” (Gen 7:11), and the band of eight survivors left the ark the following year “in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month” (Gen 8:14).

”The 600th year referred to means 600 complete years had not yet passed. The conclusion of that year came later, and in fact the very first day of the next year numbered 601 is explicitly mentioned in the Genesis account. “And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year [of Noah’s life], in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth” (Gen 8:13). Thus we conclude that the full 600 years closed near the end of their flood experience.

In other words, there were 1655 years until the flood, and 1656 years until the flood ended.”

IMHO the error comes from the translation that we use. It seems to me that you have used the KJV while I have used the NET bible in this instance.

Genesis 7 : 6: - 6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. KJV

Genesis 7 : 6: - 6 Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters engulfed(a) the earth. (from The NET Bible®, Copyright © 1996-2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C., Dallas, Texas, www.bible.org. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)

Footnote for (a) tn Heb "and the flood was water upon." The disjunctive clause (conjunction + subject + verb) is circumstantial/temporal in relation to the preceding clause. The verb הָיָה (hayah) here carries the nuance "to come" (BDB 225 s.v. הָיָה ). In this context the phrase "come upon" means "to engulf."
The above two translations of Genesis 7:6 was taken/copied from the PC Study Bible.

Other translations use the expression, "came upon" which suggests that in the 600th year, of Noah's life, the flood started. Now from scripture we also know that the flood lasted for twelve months and it was not until Noah and his family were told by God to leave the ark that the flood event was over for Noah and his family. That was in the 601st year of Noah's life. You can publish articles that support your POV but it still does not change what was recorded in the scriptures for us to understand.

Your error still stands as far as I am concerned and a web site that does not provide a clear indication of its relationship with particular religions by the use of shell "companies," for want of a better way of expressing the obvious, is not necessarily a reliable source for truth. The web site clearly states that the opinions expressed in the articles published on their platform are the expressed views of the authors and they in effect wash their hands of the articles being truthful on the guise of providing a platform where anything can be published on the grounds of being able to have religious freedom to express whatever the author wants or believes is the truth.

In my personal research into the chronology of the OT, the year in which the flood ended is of importance as it confirmed for me the year in which the covenant that God made with Abraham was confirmed through the birth of Isaac. This was also confirmed by understanding in which year King David was born as well. Another confirmation was the year in which the years of God Grace for the Israelites was withdrawn by God and the beginning of the years in which the visitation of the iniquities of the Israelites began.

Another confirmation of my research was the timespan of the single verse Parable of the lesson from the Fig Tree's budding to when the end of the visitation of the iniquities upon the Israelites would be and the start of the restoration of the Israelites' covenant relationship with the Lord once more when God will make like new again His covenant of a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and His possession among the peoples of the earth at the end of the conclusion of the 2,300 years of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God.

Now in your blog concerning The True Bible Chronology, the “Times and the seasons”, Part 2 you made the following claim: -

"Well as you recall Adam was created at the end of the 6th Creative Day (Gen 1:26, 31). The 2 year difference between genealogy (computed from Adam in the 6th day) and prophecies of restoration beginning in 1874 A.D. proves how long Adam was in Eden. Six thousand years of laboring under sin begins at Adam’s fall, not his creation. 4126 + 1874 = 6000 years"

In providing your 4126 BC as the years in which Adam was created, you reference the Prophecies of restoration as beginning in 1874 AD but provided no link where this can be checked out and confirmed as being true.

Your indulgence in providing this link to gleam some understanding of what you are referring to would be appreciated.

 

[Harvest 1874]

The second error that you have used to determine the year BC in which Adam was created is the use of 1874 AD from which you then worked backwards to calculate the Year in which Adam was created. In all of your blogs on your chronological calculations, I found no justification of the 1874 year at all.

Actually a more accurate synopsis is that we followed the true bible chronology as recorded in the scriptures from its beginning in Gen 5:3 (Link # 1 in the True Bible Chronology) all the way through to the close of the seventy years of desolation, in the first year of Cyrus 536 B.C. (2 Chron 36:20-23).

This gives us a total of 3592 years since the creation of Adam, we then simply add the 536 years to bring us to A.D. 1 and we have a total of 4128 years.

Since we know that that the creative week follows the same pattern as that of a typical week of seven days, the seventh being the Sabbath so too with regards to the great creative week, in this case these days are 1000 years each rather than the typical 24 hour days, the seventh of these this time being the Grand Sabbath or Jubilee Day, the “times of restitution of all things” (Acts 3:19-21).

Now it just simple math you have 4128 years to A.D. 1, 6000 years minus 4128 years leaves you with 1872 years remaining.

The two year difference between 1872 A.D. computed from genealogy (i.e. from the creation of Adam at the end of the sixth day) and prophecies of restoration beginning in 1874 A.D. prove how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden. Six thousand years of laboring under sin begins at Adam’s fall, not his creation.

I’m glad you brought this quote up in your latest post because I just noticed the mistake I made in the diagram where I indicated 4126 as Adam’s creation where it should have been 4128.

Adam was created in 4128 B.C.; his fall took place in 4126 B.C. from then till 1874 A.D. is 6000 years.

You state: In all of your blogs on your chronological calculations, I found no justification of the 1874 year at all.

In Reply, the reason you find no justification for the date 1874 is that you have not done enough study on the Jubilee prophecy, Daniel prophecy specifically the 1335 days as well as the Jewish “Double” Parallels. These all point to the date 1874 specifically.

In your most recent post you state:

“You can publish articles that support your POV but it still does not change what was recorded in the scriptures for us to understand.

In Reply, you are entitled to believe as you wish but we have thoroughly proven the chronology we present as straight from the scriptures and are completely satisfied with its truthfulness.

You state: Your error still stands as far as I am concerned and a web site that does not provide a clear indication of its relationship with particular religions by the use of shell "companies," for want of a better way of expressing the obvious, is not necessarily a reliable source for truth. The web site clearly states that the opinions expressed in the articles published on their platform are the expressed views of the authors and they in effect wash their hands of the articles being truthful on the guise of providing a platform where anything can be published on the grounds of being able to have religious freedom to express whatever the author wants or believes is the truth.

In Reply, I have no idea what website you are referring to. If you are referring to any legitimate Bible Student website although it’s true that some allow others (whom they know) to post on their website they would never as you suggest “wash their hands of the articles being truthful”, nothing would be allowed unless it was something which was commonly held by Bible Students having been thoroughly proven by the scriptures. As I said I have no idea where you’re getting your information.

 

[Jay Ross]

Actually a more accurate synopsis is that we followed the true bible chronology as recorded in the scriptures from its beginning in Gen 5:3 (Link # 1 in the True Bible Chronology) all the way through to the close of the seventy years of desolation, in the first year of Cyrus 536 B.C. (2 Chron 36:20-23).

This gives us a total of 3592 years since the creation of Adam, we then simply add the 536 years to bring us to A.D. 1 and we have a total of 4128 years.

Firstly, you did not follow the true bible chronology as recorded in the scriptures as the following errors prove.

First off, there is the 1 year of the flood that you have ignored.

Secondly, you had dismissed out of hand the Chronology of Genesis 11, which incidentally is also confirmed in the Book of Jasher, that Abraham was born to Terah when Terah was 70 years old.

Thirdly, you claimed that God’s Covenant with Abraham happened when Abraham was 75 years old. However, Stephen tells us that God Covenant with Abraham happened while he was still in Ur of the Chaldeans, around 25 years prior to him leaving Haran.

As an aside, it should be noted that there is no mention in the scriptures that Abraham went to Haran with any recorded possessions. However, we learn that he leaves Haran to go down to the Land of Canaan with large flocks and herds, and many people working in his household. Abraham needed some time, possibly around 25 years in Haran before he left, to establish himself with flock and herds and servants and fighting men and herdsmen and shepherds etc..

Another error is that you claim that the fall occurred 2 years after Adam was created, but the Bible is silent is silent as to when the fall occurred. As such we have no idea when the fall took place and Adam and Eve were forced to leave the Garden of Eden.

Since we know that that the creative week follows the same pattern as that of a typical week of seven days, the seventh being the Sabbath so too with regards to the great creative week, in this case these days are 1000 years each rather than the typical 24 hour days, the seventh of these this time being the Grand Sabbath or Jubilee Day, the “times of restitution of all things” (Acts 3:19-21).

Acts 3: 17 - 21: - 17 "Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

But the time of restoration of all things does not happen until after the Great White Throne Judgement occurs, i.e. after Revelation 20, in chapter 21.

Now it just simple math you have 4128 years to A.D. 1, 6000 years minus 4128 years leaves you with 1872 years remaining.

Here in is your next error, if the time of restoration occurs after the GWTJ day of the Lord then the above calculation is missing 1,000 years as by your own reasoning the GWTJ occurs 7,000 years after the creation of Adam and as such, your claim that the time of the restoration of all things could not have happened in the year 1874 AD as you are claiming. Rather you are suggesting that the time of the restoration of all things will occur in the year 2874 AD. Since we are already in the year 2018 AD there seems to be a very large error in your logic.

The two year difference between 1872 A.D. computed from genealogy (i.e. from the creation of Adam at the end of the sixth day) and prophecies of restoration beginning in 1874 A.D. prove how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden. Six thousand years of laboring under sin begins at Adam’s fall, not his creation.[/.quote]

Another assumption that is wrong, the bible is silent as to when God sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden.

You state: In all of your blogs on your chronological calculations, I found no justification of the 1874 year at all.

In Reply, the reason you find no justification for the date 1874 is that you have not done enough study on the Jubilee prophecy, Daniel prophecy specifically the 1335 days as well as the Jewish “Double” Parallels. These all point to the date 1874 specifically.

Sadly in your blog I found no reference to the Jubilee Prophecy or the Jewish double parallels

In your most recent post you state:

“You can publish articles that support your POV but it still does not change what was recorded in the scriptures for us to understand.

In Reply, you are entitled to believe as you wish but we have thoroughly proven the chronology we present as straight from the scriptures and are completely satisfied with its truthfulness.

That is simply your opinion but the above mentioned errors do not back up your claim.

There is nothing in what you are posting that I would even recommend to anyone.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Firstly, you did not follow the true bible chronology as recorded in the scriptures as the following errors prove.

First off, there is the 1 year of the flood that you have ignored.

Secondly, you had dismissed out of hand the Chronology of Genesis 11, which incidentally is also confirmed in the Book of Jasher, that Abraham was born to Terah when Terah was 70 years old.

Thirdly, you claimed that God’s Covenant with Abraham happened when Abraham was 75 years old. However, Stephen tells us that God Covenant with Abraham happened while he was still in Ur of the Chaldeans, around 25 years prior to him leaving Haran.

As an aside, it should be noted that there is no mention in the scriptures that Abraham went to Haran with any recorded possessions. However, we learn that he leaves Haran to go down to the Land of Canaan with large flocks and herds, and many people working in his household. Abraham needed some time, possibly around 25 years in Haran before he left, to establish himself with flock and herds and servants and fighting men and herdsmen and shepherds etc..

Another error is that you claim that the fall occurred 2 years after Adam was created, but the Bible is silent is silent as to when the fall occurred. As such we have no idea when the fall took place and Adam and Eve were forced to leave the Garden of Eden.




Acts 3: 17 - 21: - 17 "Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

But the time of restoration of all things does not happen until after the Great White Throne Judgement occurs, i.e. after Revelation 20, in chapter 21.



Here in is your next error, if the time of restoration occurs after the GWTJ day of the Lord then the above calculation is missing 1,000 years as by your own reasoning the GWTJ occurs 7,000 years after the creation of Adam and as such, your claim that the time of the restoration of all things could not have happened in the year 1874 AD as you are claiming. Rather you are suggesting that the time of the restoration of all things will occur in the year 2874 AD. Since we are already in the year 2018 AD there seems to be a very large error in your logic.

Sorry my friend but it is apparent your understanding of both prophecy and chronology is somewhat lacking you are attempting to fit your preconceived ideas (especially as regards the GWTJ) into the picture and these are preventing you from seeing the true picture.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, nevertheless I will be posting a segment on Rest and Restitution on my blog as soon as I am able which we believe will confirm our position.

Be it known the knowledge of the "times and seasons" is not given to everyone.

 

[Jay Ross]

Sorry my friend but it is apparent your understanding of both prophecy and chronology is somewhat lacking you are attempting to fit your preconceived ideas (especially as regards the GWTJ) into the picture and these are preventing you from seeing the true picture.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, nevertheless I will be posting a segment on Rest and Restitution on my blog as soon as I am able which we believe will confirm our position.

Be it known the knowledge of the "times and seasons" is not given to everyone.

Your justification sounds like pie in the sky understanding that causes me to question the religious theological understanding that you hold to. It seems to me that your references to particular dates conform to a particular denomination's understanding of the end times.

Perhaps, it would be good for you to state the denomination that you adhere to which is providing you with the "true picture" of the earth's chronology and the end times.

I await your response

 

[Davy]

Per Rev.5, the main purpose of the Seals is information of the events to be sealed in our minds by The Holy Spirit. Our Lord Jesus only can open them to us, as shown in Rev.5.

Their order is not chronological, but instead follows the order of the signs of the end Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

The first sign He gave was to not allow any man to deceive us, and thus the 1st seal is about the fake Christ coming on a white horse wearing a crown and having a bow of cheap fabric. Per Rev.19, our Lord Jesus returns on a white horse wearing many crowns and wielding a two-edged sword. However, the actual order of the coming fake Christ on a white horse is on one of the later Seals. On the 1st Seal he is only being described. And that's exactly how our Lord Jesus covered the matter in Matthew 24, warning of those who come saying they are Christ early in the chapter, and then once the AOD is setup, in Matt.24:23-26 Jesus warns specifically of the pseudochristos (translated "false Christs" in the KJV, but actually means 'a spurious Messiah' per Dr. Strong).

The 6th Seal is covering both the event of the coming Antichrist and his, and then the event of Christ's coming and the day of His wrath on the "day of the Lord":

Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev.11 revealed a 'great earthquake' in Jerusalem just prior to the 7th Trumpet. And as others have shown, Joel 2 reveals this moon and sun event immediately prior to the "day of the Lord".


13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This fig tree casting its untimely figs linked to those stars of heaven falling to earth I do not believe is about literal stars, but is tied to the Rev.12:7-9 war in Heaven when no more place in Heaven is found for Satan and his angels, and they are cast down to our earth, in our dimension. The idea of untimely figs is about the winter fig that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring. It represents the wrong fig in the parable of the fig tree. Those in Christ Jesus are symbolically harvested in summer, not the spring. The untimely figs is a allegory to being deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ who comes first. Thus this falling of stars is linked more to Rev.12:7-9 than the "day of the Lord".


14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

Those Rev.6:14-17 verses represent the day of Jesus' 2nd coming. That is the "day of the Lord" when His wrath is poured out upon the wicked. Does it matter more that these events are not shown on the 7th Seal like would be expected? No, the event type order is more important to focus on. To make this point I believe our Lord Jesus specifically gave us the last 3 trumpets with 3 woes to show those events are all in sequential order.