"The twelve apostles And us...

[GRACE ambassador]

...it should now be clear that the commission to the eleven cannot be carried out
today—and that no one is carrying it out. God has rendered this impossible...

...He said to all of His disciples: “Sell that ye have and give alms” (Luke_12:33),
and bade them forbear making provisions for the future (Vers. 22-31).

This command is clear enough. They understood and obeyed it. But we do not
and cannot obey it today. Indeed, if we did liquidate our assets and distribute the
proceeds to the poor; if we did forbear making provisions for the future, we would
be disobeying the Command of our Ascended LORD regarding this very matter, for
in I Timothy 5:8 the inspired apostle declares:

“But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the
faith, and is worse than an infidel [unbeliever].”​

...the meaning of the whole passage is simple as ABC when we rightly divide the
Word Of Truth. Our LORD is simply telling His disciples that it is His Father’s Good
Pleasure to give them the kingdom, to place them in authority, and that if they
will “seek” it even now “all these things” (needed food and clothing) will be amply
provided for them. Thus He goes on: “Sell that ye have and give alms.” It is as
simple as that.

In any case, they did not, like many today, take lightly our LORD’s Words in
Matthew_7:24-27, but, filled with the Holy Spirit, immediately set out to obey
their commission to the letter. Unless we are prepared to do the same we had
better acknowledge that there has since been a change in dispensation...
"
(borrowed from "Our Great Commission - What Is It?" by CR Stam)

FULL study:
The twelve apostles And us



GRACE And Peace...

 

[Charlie24]

...it should now be clear that the commission to the eleven cannot be carried out
today—and that no one is carrying it out. God has rendered this impossible...

...He said to all of His disciples: “Sell that ye have and give alms” (Luke_12:33),
and bade them forbear making provisions for the future (Vers. 22-31).

This command is clear enough. They understood and obeyed it. But we do not
and cannot obey it today. Indeed, if we did liquidate our assets and distribute the
proceeds to the poor; if we did forbear making provisions for the future, we would
be disobeying the Command of our Ascended LORD regarding this very matter, for
in I Timothy 5:8 the inspired apostle declares:

“But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the
faith, and is worse than an infidel [unbeliever].”​

...the meaning of the whole passage is simple as ABC when we rightly divide the
Word Of Truth. Our LORD is simply telling His disciples that it is His Father’s Good
Pleasure to give them the kingdom, to place them in authority, and that if they
will “seek” it even now “all these things” (needed food and clothing) will be amply
provided for them. Thus He goes on: “Sell that ye have and give alms.” It is as
simple as that.

In any case, they did not, like many today, take lightly our LORD’s Words in
Matthew_7:24-27, but, filled with the Holy Spirit, immediately set out to obey
their commission to the letter. Unless we are prepared to do the same we had
better acknowledge that there has since been a change in dispensation...
"
(borrowed from "Our Great Commission - What Is It?" by CR Stam)

FULL study:
The twelve apostles And us

View attachment 25389

GRACE And Peace...

In the overall view of the Great Commission the way I see it is that the apostles were church builders, they preached the gospel all over the world to build churches. The Great Commission has been handed to the Church.

I wouldn't give a plug nickel for a Church who doesn't have a will to support missionaries in every aspect possible.

The Church is carrying on the Great Commission through it's support to missions in order to "go and preach the Gospel to all the world." We are to support our local Churches in this commission.

We are to give generously to this effort by the Church and not hold back anything in promoting the Gospel throughout this world. Of course we have to use our common sense, some can give more than others. I'm speaking of tithes and gifts to the work of Christ. The leaders of the Church should set aside an amount of money each month to support these missionaries, and should take on as many as possible.

I have no time for those who believe tithes are not the New Testament way. If the Church and missions are supported by only gifts of those who feel led, how in the world will the Church doors stay open much less the continuation of the Great Commission?

 

[theefaith]

That’s why New Testament priests are not married in general

and the apostles must remain until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
I am with you (apostles) until the end
Matt 28:19 Teach all nations
Acts 1:8 my witnesses to the ends of the earth

 

[Enoch111]

...it should now be clear that the commission to the eleven cannot be carried out today—and that no one is carrying it out. God has rendered this impossible...

This is just nonsense. The Great Commission, while given to the eleven apostles, was -- by extension -- given to the Church. And the proof is right there in Scripture.

And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles... Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the Word. (Acts 8:1,4)

Is this not a continuation of the Great Commission by Christians who were not apostles? And has this not being happening since the first century? This one passage totally refutes that Hyper-Dispensational nonsense quoted above. It is rather disappointing that you choose to promote Hyper-Dispensationalism.

 

[Enoch111]

Quoting from Way of Life on Hyper-Dispensationalism:

PART I

3. Another potential danger of dispensationalism is in making improper dispensations and making too sharp a division between them.

This is called “ultra-dispensationalism” or “hyper-dispensationalism” and is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of ultra- or hyper-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker.

There are many varieties of ultra-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the chief characteristics:

a. The four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the churches. Yet, the writer of Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Though we know that Christ presented Himself to the Jewish nation and we do understand that there are differences between the gospels and the epistles, yet in Hebrews 2 we do not see a sharp delineation between the gospel preached by Christ and that preached by the apostles who followed. In fact, the Gospel of John presents exactly the same gospel as that preached by Paul. Further, 1 Timothy 6:3 shows that Christ spoke directly to the church age.

b. The book of Acts is also largely Jewish. Hyper-dispensationalists commonly believe that after Christ was rejected by Israel in the Gospels, that they were given a second chance to receive the kingdom in the first part of the book of Acts. They teach that there are two different churches viewed in the book of Acts, and the true Pauline church only started after Acts 9, 13, or 28. The church mentioned in the first part of Acts allegedly refers to a different church than that of Paul’s prison epistles. The earlier “church” in Acts is simply an aspect of the kingdom preached in the Gospels. Most of the book of Acts is therefore discounted as a guideline for the churches today. Yet, at the very end of the book of Acts we still find Paul preaching about the kingdom (Acts 28:23). In fact, he was still preaching about it in his epistles! (2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 4:1). While we can see an obvious transition in the book of Acts, and not everything in Acts continues to be in effect in the churches today (e.g., tongues speaking and apostolic sign gifts) this does not mean that there are different gospels and different churches in various parts of Acts. The book of Acts is a book about and for the churches. The pattern of the first church as described in Acts 2 is the pattern for the churches throughout the age, except for the temporary and unique aspects pertaining to the coming of the Holy Spirit and the apostolic miracles.

c. The mysteries given to Paul are a different revelation from that given to Peter and the other apostles, and only Paul’s writings are directly for the church today. The other epistles, such as Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and John’s epistles are not for us today in a direct sense. Yet, Paul himself said that the church is built upon the “apostleS” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20) and the mysteries were “revealed unto his holy apostleS and prophetS” (Eph. 3:5) and not to him alone. Peter also referred to the writings of Paul and made no distinction between Paul’s teaching and the teaching of the other apostles (2 Pet. 3:1-2, 15-16). Peter said Paul wrote to the same people and preached the same message. Though we know that Paul was the special apostle of the Gentiles and he was given unique revelations about the church as the body of Christ, his revelations in no way contradict the revelations given in the General Epistles (Hebrews - Jude).

d. The gospel preached by Peter in the early part of the book of Acts is different from the gospel preached by Paul. Yet, there is no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. (1) Consider the gospel Peter preached in his first epistle. He preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). (2) Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. (3) Paul plainly said in 1 Corinthians 15:11-14 that they all preached the same gospel. (4) Even in Acts 2, Peter was preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ rather than a “kingdom gospel.” He preached Christ -- His crucifixion (Acts 2:23), resurrection (Acts 2:24-32), ascension and Lordship (Acts 2:33-36). He preached that the people should repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). This is not a “kingdom gospel.” (5) Further, Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse.

e. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given to Paul before he received the church age mysteries; thus they are not for the churches today. Hyper-dispensationalists differ on this point. Some accept both baptism and the Lord’s Supper; some reject water baptism and the Lord’s Supper altogether; while others reject only baptism and keep the Lord’s Supper.

 

[Enoch111]

PART II

f. According to hyper-dispensationalism there are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament and during the Tribulation. Peter Ruckman, for example, teaches that men were saved by faith plus works in the Old Testament and that they will be saved by faith plus works in the Tribulation and by works alone in the Millennium. In Millions Disappear: Fact or Fiction? Ruckman says: “If the Lord comes and you remain behind, then start working like a madman to get to heaven, because you’re going to have to. ... You must keep the Ten Commandments (all of them, Ecclesiastes 12:13), keep the Golden Rule (1 John 3:10), give your money to the poor, get baptized, take up your cross, hold out to the end of the Tribulation, wait for Jesus Christ to show up at the Battle of Armageddon, and be prepared to die for what you believe. In the Tribulation you cannot be saved by grace alone, like you could before the Rapture.” In fact, Romans 4:1-8 plainly states that Abraham before the law and David under the law were saved by faith without works. This is the only plan of salvation God ever has had and ever will have--salvation by grace alone through faith alone based upon the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone. The Old Testament saints did not know what the New Testament saint knows, but Romans 4 makes it plain that they were saved by faith without works. Like Abraham, they believed God and it was counted unto them for righteousness. Those who are saved in the Tribulation will also be saved through faith in God’s Word and by the blood of Jesus Christ and through this alone (Rev. 7:14).

A more recent statement of hyper-dispensationalism was presented in One Book Rightly Divided: The Key to Understanding the Bible by Dr. Douglas Stauffer (2000, McCowen Mills Publishers). Stauffer’s book came with recommendations from some well-known independent Baptist preachers, including William Grady and J. Wendell Runion of International Baptist Outreach Missions. In his glowing Foreword to Stauffer’s book (which he calls a “spiritual masterpiece”), Grady said that “this book will undoubtedly create shock waves within certain ‘camps’ of fundamentalism...”

In 2018, Doug Stauffer published a new edition to his book in which he rejects the former stance on hyper-dispensationalism. On October 31, 2018, I asked him by email if he rejected the following doctrines which were taught in the 2000 edition of his book:

* Paul is THE spokesman for the church age (p. 17).
* The epistles from Hebrews to Revelation, while containing some church age applications, are actually written for Great Tribulation saints (pp. 20, 27).
* Salvation is obtained by works during the Tribulation (p. 23).
* Hebrews and James do not teach eternal security (pp. 23, 29).
* Peter did not preach the gospel of the grace of God (p. 26).
* The seven churches of Revelation 1-3 are not the body of Christ (p. 29).
* John’s first epistle teaches that salvation is through works (p. 56).
* The book of Acts was not given “to show how to establish the local church or its functions” (p. 72)
* Abraham had to keep his salvation through works (p. 175).

He replied, “All of those positions are changed and I do not hold to any of them. For instance, Peter read Paul’s epistles, so how could he be preaching another gospel that contradicted Paul’s preaching/teaching (he would be accursed)? Paul is the apostle TO the Gentiles (not TO the church), but he was also instrumental in reaching the Jews with the Gospel of the Grace of God. Our charts extend the church age through Revelation 4:1 with the picture of the Rapture happening when John is caught up. Revelation churches were local New Testament churches in the first century who were all saved by grace. Salvation NEVER includes works or a man could boast no matter when the man lived. And ditto to the rest of your questions which all revolve around this discussion.”

Harry A. Ironside wrote a helpful little booklet about this problem called “Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: Ultra-Dispensationalism Examined in the Light of Holy Scripture.” He deals largely with the error of Bullingerism. This is available on the Internet at http://www.brethrenonline.org/books/ultrad.htm.

For more about the way of salvation in other dispensations, see “Salvation Is the Same in the Old Testament and the New Testament” by Bruce Lackey and “Salvation in the O.T. and the N.T. Follow-up.” These are available at the Way of Life web site and in the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library.

 

[Robert Gwin]

...it should now be clear that the commission to the eleven cannot be carried out
today—and that no one is carrying it out. God has rendered this impossible...

...He said to all of His disciples: “Sell that ye have and give alms” (Luke_12:33),
and bade them forbear making provisions for the future (Vers. 22-31).

This command is clear enough. They understood and obeyed it. But we do not
and cannot obey it today. Indeed, if we did liquidate our assets and distribute the
proceeds to the poor; if we did forbear making provisions for the future, we would
be disobeying the Command of our Ascended LORD regarding this very matter, for
in I Timothy 5:8 the inspired apostle declares:

“But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the
faith, and is worse than an infidel [unbeliever].”​

...the meaning of the whole passage is simple as ABC when we rightly divide the
Word Of Truth. Our LORD is simply telling His disciples that it is His Father’s Good
Pleasure to give them the kingdom, to place them in authority, and that if they
will “seek” it even now “all these things” (needed food and clothing) will be amply
provided for them. Thus He goes on: “Sell that ye have and give alms.” It is as
simple as that.

In any case, they did not, like many today, take lightly our LORD’s Words in
Matthew_7:24-27, but, filled with the Holy Spirit, immediately set out to obey
their commission to the letter. Unless we are prepared to do the same we had
better acknowledge that there has since been a change in dispensation...
"
(borrowed from "Our Great Commission - What Is It?" by CR Stam)

FULL study:
The twelve apostles And us

View attachment 25389

GRACE And Peace...

The assignment to Jesus' disciples was not impossible, in fact history has shown the success of their acceptance of the assignment sir. We actually can say we have fulfilled it at this time, but obviously God believes that the assignment can be further reached. How many times have you been reached by Jesus' disciples in your lifetime?

Most every part of the world has been reached by the good news of the Kingdom of God Grace.