The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[ewq1938]

Rev. 11:3-13 Never says that the two witnesses bring down plagues on anyone. It just says that they had the power/authority to do so.
In a small way, Jesus demonstrated that when he cursed the tree that bore no fruit.

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This implies the tormenting was through the plagues etc they had the power to do described in the verses just before this one.

 

[Earburner]

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This implies the tormenting was through the plagues etc they had the power to do described in the verses just before this one.

Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets [John and Jesus] tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

In that verse, you selected the correct word "imply" for the understanding of "torment".
However, in that verse it also "implies" that a person who is in the midst of repentance towards God can also be in a form of torment, before they come to the personal realization of His Gift of their salvation.
Some people can go through extreme tragedy of vexation, pain and suffering, only to realize that it was the day when they finally repented towards God, and discovered the JOY of their deliverance through faith in Jesus.

Tormented-
Strong's Number - G928
Greek: βασανίζω
Transliteration: basanizō
Pronunciation: bas-an-id'-zo
Definition: From G931; to torture: - pain toil torment toss vex.
KJV Usage: torment (8x), pain (1x), toss (1x), vex (1x), toil (1x).
Occurs: 12
In verses: 12

 

[TribulationSigns]

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This implies the tormenting was through the plagues etc they had the power to do described in the verses just before this one.

I was already aware of this verse, which clearly exposes the flaw in Earburner’s interpretation of the Two Witnesses. It will be interesting to see how he attempts to reconcile this Scripture with his earlier insistence that the plagues never took place because the people had repented. His explanation raises a serious contradiction that he needs to address with Scripture rather than speculation.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets [John and Jesus] tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

These two people they are rejoicing over were murdered at the same time. It would make as much sense for someone to claim the two prophets of Rev 11 were Adam and Eve, or John Wayne and Mickey Mouse.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets [John and Jesus] tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

In that verse, you selected the correct word "imply" for the understanding of "torment".
However, in that verse it also "implies" that a person who is in the midst of repentance towards God can also be in a form of torment, before they come to the personal realization of His Gift of their salvation.
Some people can go through extreme tragedy of vexation, pain and suffering, only to realize that it was the day when they finally repented towards God, and discovered the JOY of their deliverance through faith in Jesus.

Tormented-
Strong's Number - G928
Greek: βασανίζω
Transliteration: basanizō
Pronunciation: bas-an-id'-zo
Definition: From G931; to torture: - pain toil torment toss vex.
KJV Usage: torment (8x), pain (1x), toss (1x), vex (1x), toil (1x).
Occurs: 12
In verses: 12

Wow!

People...

Earburner's flawed explanation of Revelation 11:10 does not agree with the context of Scripture. He is attempting to redefine the word "tormented" to mean the suffering someone experiences during repentance. But that interpretation completely ignores what Revelation 11:7–10 actually says.

Let us examine the passage carefully and allow Scripture to interpret Scripture rather than force the passage to fit his that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. Here are six points to consider:

1. The people were rejoicing over the DEATH of the Two Witnesses, NOT repenting!​

Revelation 11:10 states:
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

Now, Earburner need to explain:

Since when does genuine repentance cause people to celebrate the death of God's prophets?

The passage explicitly states that these people REJOICED when the Two Witnesses were killed. They made merry and exchanged gifts because the prophets who had tormented them were now dead!

This is not a picture of repentance. It is a picture of hostility toward God's testimony and relief that His messengers have been silenced.

Consider what Jesus said:

John 3:19–20:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

Do you see the connection?

The wicked hate the light because it exposes their evil deeds. Likewise, those dwelling upon the earth rejoice because the testimony of the Two Witnesses has tormented them.

Their reaction demonstrates resistance to the truth, not submission to it.

Earburner have confused conviction that leads to repentance with torment that produces hostility toward God's Word.

These are not the same thing!

2. Earburner's Greek definition does not support his interpretation​

He appealed to the Greek word basanizō (G928), which means to torment, torture, vex, or cause pain.

But where does this Greek word mean REPENTANCE?

Nowhere!

He have simply selected a possible sense of the word, such as pain or vexation, and then assumed that the pain must refer to someone repenting.

That is not biblical exegesis.

A word must be understood according to its context, not according to an imagined situation that the passage never describes.

Consider Revelation 9:5:
"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

The same Greek verb is used here.

Does this mean the people were repenting? Hello?

Certainly not! The following verses describe their desperate suffering, and Revelation 9:20–21 explicitly declares that the survivors repented not.

This demonstrates that torment does not necessarily produce repentance. People can experience torment while remaining hardened against God.

Therefore, Earburner appeal to Strong's Concordance proves nothing about repentance in Revelation 11:10.

3. Revelation 11 explicitly identifies plagues and judgments​

​

Earburner previously argued that Jesus and John the Baptist did not actually bring the plagues described in Revelation 11:6 because the people repented.

But read the passage!

Revelation 11:6:
"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."

The Scripture identifies the authority of the Two Witnesses to bring judgment.

Yet you insist that the plagues did not occur because people repented. What a joke!

Where does Revelation 11 say that repentance prevented these judgments?

It does not!

Nor does Revelation 11:10 say that the people repented.

Instead, the passage tells us that the people were tormented by the prophets and celebrated their deaths.

HIs explanation inserts repentance into a passage that describes opposition, persecution, and rejoicing over the apparent defeat of God's witnesses.

Earburner is using an assumption to explain away the very Scripture he is supposed to interpret.

Furthermore, if Earburner claim that Revelation 11:6 describes literal powers exercised by Jesus and John, he must demonstrate from Scripture how they jointly fulfilled these specific prophetic activities. You cannot simply declare that the judgments were canceled by repentance without biblical evidence!

4. Your identification of Jesus and John creates serious chronological problems​

Revelation 11:3 states:
"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

If the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist, then he must demonstrate that both fulfilled this testimony for 1,260 days.

But Scripture tells us that John was imprisoned and eventually beheaded during Jesus' earthly ministry (Matthew 14:3–12).

Jesus, however, was crucified later.

Revelation 11:7 declares:
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

Notice that the passage describes the completion of their testimony followed by the beast overcoming and killing both witnesses. Not one of them because one died earlier before testimony is finished. Such foolish!

Revelation 11:8–9 then describes their dead bodies lying exposed in the street of the great city for three and a half days.

But where does Scripture teach that the dead bodies of Jesus and John lay together on physical streets of Jerusalem, exposed publicly for three and a half days?

It does not!

In fact, Scripture tells us otherwise.

Matthew 14:12 tells us that John's disciples took his body and buried it.

Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and laid it in his own new tomb.

Not lying together on the streets of the city for 3-1/2 days!

Yet Earburner somehow overlooked that in Revelation 11:9 which says that the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses would not be permitted to be placed in graves. Hello, Earburner?!

How do Earburner reconcile this contradiction with your interpretation, humm?!

He cannot claim a literal historical fulfillment when the recorded historical events do not match the prophecy.

If Earburner believe these descriptions are symbolic, then he must explain consistently what they symbolize rather than selectively treating some details literally and ignoring others.

​

(Continue to point five on the next post)​

 

[TribulationSigns]

(Continue from previous post)

5. The Two Witnesses represent the faithful testimony of God's people​

My belief is that the Two Witnesses corporately, representing God's faithful congregation bearing witness to the truth of His Word.

Consider Revelation 11:4:
"These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

The imagery comes from Zechariah 4, where the olive trees and lampstand are associated with God's work through His Spirit.

Furthermore, Revelation itself establishes that candlesticks symbolize congregations. Not two physical men as most believe.

Revelation 1:20:
"...and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Therefore, we have biblical grounds for understanding the Two Witnesses in a corporate and spiritual sense rather than assuming that they must be two individual men.

The number two also agrees with the biblical principle of establishing a faithful testimony through two witnesses (Deuteronomy 19:15).

Their testimony torments the wicked because God's truth exposes falsehood, condemns unrighteousness, and calls people to repentance. Selah!

When the beast overcomes them, their testimony for salvation and repentence, is apparently silenced, and those who hate the truth celebrate.

This agrees with the spiritual conflict between the faithful and the unfaithful throughout Scripture!!

Consider John 16:2:
"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

Jesus warned that religious people themselves would persecute His faithful witnesses.

Therefore, the rejoicing in Revelation 11:10 can be understood as the triumphal celebration of those who oppose God's faithful testimony, including those within an unfaithful congregation.

This interpretation also agrees with the spiritual description of the great city as Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11:8), imagery associated with wickedness, bondage, and rebellion against God.

6. The response of the wicked exposes Earburner's error​

There is another passage that illustrates this principle.

Acts 7:54, 57–58, concerning Stephen's testimony:
"When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him..."

Notice what happened.

Stephen proclaimed God's truth, and his listeners were deeply affected by it.

But did they repent, humm?

NO!

They became enraged and killed him!

This is precisely the distinction Earburner is overlooking.

The Word of God can convict the hearer, but the wicked may respond with hatred instead of repentance.

Likewise, Revelation 11:10 describes people celebrating the deaths of the prophets whose testimony had tormented them.

Their celebration is evidence of their hostility, not evidence of their salvation. Selah!

Conclusion​

Oh boy, Earburner...his interpretation raises serious biblical problems that he have not resolved.

He claim that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist, yet he have not demonstrated their joint 1,260-day testimony, their exercise of the judgments described in Revelation 11:6, their deaths at the hands of the beast after completing that testimony, or their bodies remaining exposed and unburied for three and a half days.

Now he claim that the torment in Revelation 11:10 refers to people "experiencing repentance", even though the passage describes people celebrating the deaths of God's prophets! Just wow.

Earburner are reading repentance into the text when the text describes rebellion against God's witnesses.

The issue is not whether repentance can involve sorrow, conviction, or distress. Certainly it can, as 2 Corinthians 7:10 teaches.

The issue is whether Revelation 11:10 actually describes such repentance.

It does not!

The verse says that the people rejoiced because the prophets who tormented them had been killed. Nothing in the passage states that these people had repented or discovered the joy of salvation.

Earburner's explanation does not resolve the contradictions in his identification of the Two Witnesses. It merely introduces another unsupported assumption.

So let us ask Earburner directly:

Where does Scripture say that the people in Revelation 11:10 repented? Where does Scripture say that repentance prevented the plagues of Revelation 11:6? And where does Scripture identify the two dead, unburied witnesses of Revelation 11:7–9 as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist?

He need to answer these questions from Scripture rather than speculation.

We must allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, not reinterpret Scripture to protect a doctrine we have already decided must be true.

Acts 17:11 reminds us to search the Scriptures to determine whether these things are so.

 

[TribulationSigns]

These two people they are rejoicing over were murdered at the same time. It would make as much sense for someone to claim the two prophets of Rev 11 were Adam and Eve, or John Wayne and Mickey Mouse.

Funny but sad for someone who came up with false doctrine like this!

 

[Earburner]

Wow!

People...

Earburner's flawed explanation of Revelation 11:10 does not agree with the context of Scripture. He is attempting to redefine the word "tormented" to mean the suffering someone experiences during repentance. But that interpretation completely ignores what Revelation 11:7–10 actually says.

Let us examine the passage carefully and allow Scripture to interpret Scripture rather than force the passage to fit his that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. Here are six points to consider:

1. The people were rejoicing over the DEATH of the Two Witnesses, NOT repenting!​

Revelation 11:10 states:
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

Now, Earburner need to explain:

Since when does genuine repentance cause people to celebrate the death of God's prophets?

The passage explicitly states that these people REJOICED when the Two Witnesses were killed. They made merry and exchanged gifts because the prophets who had tormented them were now dead!

This is not a picture of repentance. It is a picture of hostility toward God's testimony and relief that His messengers have been silenced.

Consider what Jesus said:

John 3:19–20:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

Do you see the connection?

The wicked hate the light because it exposes their evil deeds. Likewise, those dwelling upon the earth rejoice because the testimony of the Two Witnesses has tormented them.

Their reaction demonstrates resistance to the truth, not submission to it.

Earburner have confused conviction that leads to repentance with torment that produces hostility toward God's Word.

These are not the same thing!

2. Earburner's Greek definition does not support his interpretation​

He appealed to the Greek word basanizō (G928), which means to torment, torture, vex, or cause pain.

But where does this Greek word mean REPENTANCE?

Nowhere!

He have simply selected a possible sense of the word, such as pain or vexation, and then assumed that the pain must refer to someone repenting.

That is not biblical exegesis.

A word must be understood according to its context, not according to an imagined situation that the passage never describes.

Consider Revelation 9:5:
"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

The same Greek verb is used here.

Does this mean the people were repenting? Hello?

Certainly not! The following verses describe their desperate suffering, and Revelation 9:20–21 explicitly declares that the survivors repented not.

This demonstrates that torment does not necessarily produce repentance. People can experience torment while remaining hardened against God.

Therefore, Earburner appeal to Strong's Concordance proves nothing about repentance in Revelation 11:10.

3. Revelation 11 explicitly identifies plagues and judgments​

​

Earburner previously argued that Jesus and John the Baptist did not actually bring the plagues described in Revelation 11:6 because the people repented.

But read the passage!

Revelation 11:6:
"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."

The Scripture identifies the authority of the Two Witnesses to bring judgment.

Yet you insist that the plagues did not occur because people repented. What a joke!

Where does Revelation 11 say that repentance prevented these judgments?

It does not!

Nor does Revelation 11:10 say that the people repented.

Instead, the passage tells us that the people were tormented by the prophets and celebrated their deaths.

HIs explanation inserts repentance into a passage that describes opposition, persecution, and rejoicing over the apparent defeat of God's witnesses.

Earburner is using an assumption to explain away the very Scripture he is supposed to interpret.

Furthermore, if Earburner claim that Revelation 11:6 describes literal powers exercised by Jesus and John, he must demonstrate from Scripture how they jointly fulfilled these specific prophetic activities. You cannot simply declare that the judgments were canceled by repentance without biblical evidence!

4. Your identification of Jesus and John creates serious chronological problems​

Revelation 11:3 states:
"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

If the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist, then he must demonstrate that both fulfilled this testimony for 1,260 days.

But Scripture tells us that John was imprisoned and eventually beheaded during Jesus' earthly ministry (Matthew 14:3–12).

Jesus, however, was crucified later.

Revelation 11:7 declares:
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

Notice that the passage describes the completion of their testimony followed by the beast overcoming and killing both witnesses. Not one of them because one died earlier before testimony is finished. Such foolish!

Revelation 11:8–9 then describes their dead bodies lying exposed in the street of the great city for three and a half days.

But where does Scripture teach that the dead bodies of Jesus and John lay together on physical streets of Jerusalem, exposed publicly for three and a half days?

It does not!

In fact, Scripture tells us otherwise.

Matthew 14:12 tells us that John's disciples took his body and buried it.

Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and laid it in his own new tomb.

Not lying together on the streets of the city for 3-1/2 days!

Yet Earburner somehow overlooked that in Revelation 11:9 which says that the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses would not be permitted to be placed in graves. Hello, Earburner?!

How do Earburner reconcile this contradiction with your interpretation, humm?!

He cannot claim a literal historical fulfillment when the recorded historical events do not match the prophecy.

If Earburner believe these descriptions are symbolic, then he must explain consistently what they symbolize rather than selectively treating some details literally and ignoring others, and you are STILL forcing it to be so.

​

(Continue to point five on the next post)​

You have MISSED the point that there are two olive trees and there are TWO candlesticks, not seven or just one!! Rev. 11:4.
Those two candlesticks were the faithful saints who lived under the church of the OC., and we today who are living under the church of the NC.
Remember- the one [olive] "BRANCH" (of two) died for both churches (candlesticks). Zech. 3:8-10, 4:12.

 

[Earburner]

(Continue from previous post) ​

​

5. The Two Witnesses represent the faithful testimony of God's people​

My belief is that the Two Witnesses corporately, representing God's faithful congregation bearing witness to the truth of His Word.

Consider Revelation 11:4:
"These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

The imagery comes from Zechariah 4, where the olive trees and lampstand are associated with God's work through His Spirit.

Furthermore, Revelation itself establishes that candlesticks symbolize congregations. Not two physical men as most believe.

Revelation 1:20:
"...and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Therefore, we have biblical grounds for understanding the Two Witnesses in a corporate and spiritual sense rather than assuming that they must be two individual men.

The number two also agrees with the biblical principle of establishing a faithful testimony through two witnesses (Deuteronomy 19:15).

Their testimony torments the wicked because God's truth exposes falsehood, condemns unrighteousness, and calls people to repentance. Selah!

When the beast overcomes them, their testimony for salvation and repentence, is apparently silenced, and those who hate the truth celebrate.

This agrees with the spiritual conflict between the faithful and the unfaithful throughout Scripture!!

Consider John 16:2:
"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

Jesus warned that religious people themselves would persecute His faithful witnesses.

Therefore, the rejoicing in Revelation 11:10 can be understood as the triumphal celebration of those who oppose God's faithful testimony, including those within an unfaithful congregation.

This interpretation also agrees with the spiritual description of the great city as Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11:8), imagery associated with wickedness, bondage, and rebellion against God.

6. The response of the wicked exposes Earburner's error​

There is another passage that illustrates this principle.

Acts 7:54, 57–58, concerning Stephen's testimony:
"When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him..."

Notice what happened.

Stephen proclaimed God's truth, and his listeners were deeply affected by it.

But did they repent, humm?

NO!

They became enraged and killed him!

This is precisely the distinction Earburner is overlooking.

The Word of God can convict the hearer, but the wicked may respond with hatred instead of repentance.

Likewise, Revelation 11:10 describes people celebrating the deaths of the prophets whose testimony had tormented them.

Their celebration is evidence of their hostility, not evidence of their salvation. Selah!

Conclusion​

Oh boy, Earburner...his interpretation raises serious biblical problems that he have not resolved.

He claim that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist, yet he have not demonstrated their joint 1,260-day testimony, their exercise of the judgments described in Revelation 11:6, their deaths at the hands of the beast after completing that testimony, or their bodies remaining exposed and unburied for three and a half days.

Now he claim that the torment in Revelation 11:10 refers to people "experiencing repentance", even though the passage describes people celebrating the deaths of God's prophets! Just wow.

Earburner are reading repentance into the text when the text describes rebellion against God's witnesses.

The issue is not whether repentance can involve sorrow, conviction, or distress. Certainly it can, as 2 Corinthians 7:10 teaches.

The issue is whether Revelation 11:10 actually describes such repentance.

It does not!

The verse says that the people rejoiced because the prophets who tormented them had been killed. Nothing in the passage states that these people had repented or discovered the joy of salvation.

Earburner's explanation does not resolve the contradictions in his identification of the Two Witnesses. It merely introduces another unsupported assumption.

So let us ask Earburner directly:

Where does Scripture say that the people in Revelation 11:10 repented? Where does Scripture say that repentance prevented the plagues of Revelation 11:6? And where does Scripture identify the two dead, unburied witnesses of Revelation 11:7–9 as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist?

He need to answer these questions from Scripture rather than speculation.

We must allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, not reinterpret Scripture to protect a doctrine we have already decided must be true.

Acts 17:11 reminds us to search the Scriptures to determine whether these things are so.

To your part #2, again I say:
You have MISSED the point that there are two olive trees and there are TWO candlesticks, not seven or just one!! Rev. 11:4.
Those two candlesticks were the faithful saints who lived under the church of the OC., and we today who are living under the church of the NC.
Remember- the one [olive] "BRANCH" (of two) died for both churches (candlesticks). Zech. 3:8-10, 4:12.

 

[TribulationSigns]

To your part #2, again I say:
All of your book writing is from the religious perspective of "church-ianity", that the two witnesses MUST STILL BE in the future, and you are STILL forcing it to be so.
WRONG!!

What a pathetic response! Once again, instead of addressing the Scriptures and the actual points I raised, you resort to your tiresome obsession with accusing others of promoting “church-ianity.”

You claim that I insist the Two Witnesses MUST STILL BE in the future. Really? Show me exactly where I ever taught or argued that! Quote my own words rather than putting words in my mouth.

Clearly, you either failed to read my argument carefully or deliberately misrepresented my position to avoid answering the biblical challenges I presented.

My argument has never been about forcing the Two Witnesses into the future. It is about whether your interpretation that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist can withstand careful examination of Revelation 11.

Stop hiding behind labels and attacking positions I never held. Address the Scriptures, answer the questions, and defend your interpretation with biblical evidence rather than empty accusations.

You have MISSED the point that there are two olive trees and there are TWO candlesticks, not seven or just one!! Rev. 11:4.
Those two candlesticks were the faithful saints who lived under the church of the OC., and we today who are living under the church of the NC.
Remember- the one [olive] "BRANCH" (of two) died for both churches (candlesticks). Zech. 3:8-10, 4:12.

Boy, you are really confusing yourself by forcing the Two Witnesses into your preconceived interpretation of the Old Covenant (OC) and New Covenant (NC) congregations!

You are missing the very context of Revelation 11. The Two Witnesses are given power to prophesy for 1,260 symbolic days (Revelation 11:3). This represents the testimony of Christ's faithful Church, empowered by the Holy Spirit to proclaim the Gospel to the nations following Christ's victory at the Cross and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

During this period, Satan was bound so that he could no longer deceive the nations as he had before (Revelation 20:1–3). The Gospel was now going forth among the nations through Christ's witnesses.

Therefore, the 1,260 days concern the Church's Spirit-empowered testimony under the New Covenant, not a joint ministry involving faithful saints who lived and died under the Old Covenant before the Cross.

You appeal to Revelation 11:4, which identifies the Two Witnesses as the two olive trees and two candlesticks standing before God. But you are making an assumption that the two candlesticks MUST represent two separate covenantal congregations, one under the Old Covenant and the other under the New Covenant.

Where does Revelation 11 actually make that distinction? It does not!

Furthermore, your appeal to Zechariah 3–4 does not establish your conclusion. Zechariah's vision uses the imagery of olive trees, oil, and the candlestick to portray God's work through His Spirit (Zechariah 4:6). Revelation draws upon that imagery to describe the prophetic authority and testimony of the Two Witnesses. The similarity of the symbols does not automatically prove your interpretation of two covenantal churches, much less your claim that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.

And I can see why you avoid to answer questions from my previous post:

"Revelation 11:8–9 then describes their dead bodies lying exposed in the street of the great city for three and a half days.​

​

But where does Scripture teach that the dead bodies of Jesus and John lay together on physical streets of Jerusalem, exposed publicly for three and a half days?​

​

It does not!​

​

In fact, Scripture tells us otherwise.​

​

Matthew 14:12 tells us that John's disciples took his body and buried it.​

Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and laid it in his own new tomb.​

​

Not lying together on the streets of the city for 3-1/2 days!​

​

Yet Earburner somehow overlooked that in Revelation 11:9 which says that the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses would not be permitted to be placed in graves. Hello, Earburner?!"​

So, Earburner, you still need to explain how your theory that Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were the Two Witnesses can possibly be reconciled with Revelation 11:8–9, which explicitly states that BOTH witnesses' dead bodies lay exposed in the street of the great city at the same time for three and a half days, while people from different nations looked upon them and REFUSED to allow their bodies to be buried!

Yet Scripture plainly tells us that John the Baptist was buried by his disciples (Matthew 14:12) and Jesus Christ was buried in Joseph's tomb (Matthew 27:57–60). They died at different times, under different circumstances, and neither body remained exposed in the street together for three and a half days.

How much clearer can this contradiction be?

You cannot simply ignore these details because they do not fit your interpretation. You must demonstrate from Scripture how BOTH Jesus and John fulfilled these specific conditions in Revelation 11.

Until you can explain this, your interpretation FAILS to account for the very passage you claim supports it!

Come on, Earburner! Stop avoiding the obvious problem and deal with the biblical evidence. If you cannot reconcile your theory with these explicit Scriptures, then have the humility to admit that your interpretation is seriously flawed!

 

[Earburner]

@TribulationSigns please notice that I have edited my reply to you. It's not my intention to "laugh at" or "brand" anyone of how or why they believe the way they do.

I have pointed out what I understand and that is all that I should do.
I have understood that the two witnesses (two olive branches) have already come.
As to who the two olive branches were, and how they had been fulfilling their message to the two candlesticks, that is what I have pointed out with scripture, by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

Again, look at Rev. 12:4 and please tell me directly in one sentence, who you think the two candlesticks are.
Thank you.

 

[Earburner]

What a pathetic response! Once again, instead of addressing the Scriptures and the actual points I raised, you resort to your tiresome obsession with accusing others of promoting “church-ianity.”

You claim that I insist the Two Witnesses MUST STILL BE in the future. Really? Show me exactly where I ever taught or argued that! Quote my own words rather than putting words in my mouth.

Clearly, you either failed to read my argument carefully or deliberately misrepresented my position to avoid answering the biblical challenges I presented.

My argument has never been about forcing the Two Witnesses into the future. It is about whether your interpretation that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist can withstand careful examination of Revelation 11.

Stop hiding behind labels and attacking positions I never held. Address the Scriptures, answer the questions, and defend your interpretation with biblical evidence rather than empty accusations.



Boy, you are really confusing yourself by forcing the Two Witnesses into your preconceived interpretation of the Old Covenant (OC) and New Covenant (NC) congregations!

You are missing the very context of Revelation 11. The Two Witnesses are given power to prophesy for 1,260 symbolic days (Revelation 11:3). This represents the testimony of Christ's faithful Church, empowered by the Holy Spirit to proclaim the Gospel to the nations following Christ's victory at the Cross and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

During this period, Satan was bound so that he could no longer deceive the nations as he had before (Revelation 20:1–3). The Gospel was now going forth among the nations through Christ's witnesses.

Therefore, the 1,260 days concern the Church's Spirit-empowered testimony under the New Covenant, not a joint ministry involving faithful saints who lived and died under the Old Covenant before the Cross.

You appeal to Revelation 11:4, which identifies the Two Witnesses as the two olive trees and two candlesticks standing before God. But you are making an assumption that the two candlesticks MUST represent two separate covenantal congregations, one under the Old Covenant and the other under the New Covenant.

Where does Revelation 11 actually make that distinction? It does not!

Furthermore, your appeal to Zechariah 3–4 does not establish your conclusion. Zechariah's vision uses the imagery of olive trees, oil, and the candlestick to portray God's work through His Spirit (Zechariah 4:6). Revelation draws upon that imagery to describe the prophetic authority and testimony of the Two Witnesses. The similarity of the symbols does not automatically prove your interpretation of two covenantal churches, much less your claim that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.

And I can see why you avoid to answer questions from my previous post:

"Revelation 11:8–9 then describes their dead bodies lying exposed in the street of the great city for three and a half days.​

​

But where does Scripture teach that the dead bodies of Jesus and John lay together on physical streets of Jerusalem, exposed publicly for three and a half days?​

​

It does not!​

​

In fact, Scripture tells us otherwise.​

​

Matthew 14:12 tells us that John's disciples took his body and buried it.​

​

Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and laid it in his own new tomb.​

​

Not lying together on the streets of the city for 3-1/2 days!​

​

Yet Earburner somehow overlooked that in Revelation 11:9 which says that the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses would not be permitted to be placed in graves. Hello, Earburner?!"​

So, Earburner, you still need to explain how your theory that Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were the Two Witnesses can possibly be reconciled with Revelation 11:8–9, which explicitly states that BOTH witnesses' dead bodies lay exposed in the street of the great city at the same time for three and a half days, while people from different nations looked upon them and REFUSED to allow their bodies to be buried!

Yet Scripture plainly tells us that John the Baptist was buried by his disciples (Matthew 14:12) and Jesus Christ was buried in Joseph's tomb (Matthew 27:57–60). They died at different times, under different circumstances, and neither body remained exposed in the street together for three and a half days.

How much clearer can this contradiction be?

You cannot simply ignore these details because they do not fit your interpretation. You must demonstrate from Scripture how BOTH Jesus and John fulfilled these specific conditions in Revelation 11.

Until you can explain this, your interpretation FAILS to account for the very passage you claim supports it!

Come on, Earburner! Stop avoiding the obvious problem and deal with the biblical evidence. If you cannot reconcile your theory with these explicit Scriptures, then have the humility to admit that your interpretation is seriously flawed!

You can beat that drum all day long, and nothing shall matter, until you can understand that the book of Revelation Is NOT about ALL FUTURE events, nor is it in chronological order.

That which is "of great tribulation" began in 70AD. (Rev. 7:9-14) and has been increasing in intensity ever since, right up to today. It IS NOT ISOLATED to only 3.5 years. That is a fabrication of "church-ianiy", because they don't understand the 70th week in Dan. 9:24-27

 

[Earburner]

What a pathetic response! Once again, instead of addressing the Scriptures and the actual points I raised, you resort to your tiresome obsession with accusing others of promoting “church-ianity.”

You claim that I insist the Two Witnesses MUST STILL BE in the future. Really? Show me exactly where I ever taught or argued that! Quote my own words rather than putting words in my mouth.

Clearly, you either failed to read my argument carefully or deliberately misrepresented my position to avoid answering the biblical challenges I presented.

My argument has never been about forcing the Two Witnesses into the future. It is about whether your interpretation that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist can withstand careful examination of Revelation 11.

Stop hiding behind labels and attacking positions I never held. Address the Scriptures, answer the questions, and defend your interpretation with biblical evidence rather than empty accusations.



Boy, you are really confusing yourself by forcing the Two Witnesses into your preconceived interpretation of the Old Covenant (OC) and New Covenant (NC) congregations!

You are missing the very context of Revelation 11. The Two Witnesses are given power to prophesy for 1,260 symbolic days (Revelation 11:3). This represents the testimony of Christ's faithful Church, empowered by the Holy Spirit to proclaim the Gospel to the nations following Christ's victory at the Cross and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

During this period, Satan was bound so that he could no longer deceive the nations as he had before (Revelation 20:1–3). The Gospel was now going forth among the nations through Christ's witnesses.

Therefore, the 1,260 days concern the Church's Spirit-empowered testimony under the New Covenant, not a joint ministry involving faithful saints who lived and died under the Old Covenant before the Cross.

You appeal to Revelation 11:4, which identifies the Two Witnesses as the two olive trees and two candlesticks standing before God. But you are making an assumption that the two candlesticks MUST represent two separate covenantal congregations, one under the Old Covenant and the other under the New Covenant.

Where does Revelation 11 actually make that distinction? It does not!

Furthermore, your appeal to Zechariah 3–4 does not establish your conclusion. Zechariah's vision uses the imagery of olive trees, oil, and the candlestick to portray God's work through His Spirit (Zechariah 4:6). Revelation draws upon that imagery to describe the prophetic authority and testimony of the Two Witnesses. The similarity of the symbols does not automatically prove your interpretation of two covenantal churches, much less your claim that the Two Witnesses are Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.

And I can see why you avoid to answer questions from my previous post:

"Revelation 11:8–9 then describes their dead bodies lying exposed in the street of the great city for three and a half days.​

​

But where does Scripture teach that the dead bodies of Jesus and John lay together on physical streets of Jerusalem, exposed publicly for three and a half days?​

​

It does not!​

​

In fact, Scripture tells us otherwise.​

​

Matthew 14:12 tells us that John's disciples took his body and buried it.​

​

Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and laid it in his own new tomb.​

​

Not lying together on the streets of the city for 3-1/2 days!​

​

Yet Earburner somehow overlooked that in Revelation 11:9 which says that the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses would not be permitted to be placed in graves. Hello, Earburner?!"​

So, Earburner, you still need to explain how your theory that Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were the Two Witnesses can possibly be reconciled with Revelation 11:8–9, which explicitly states that BOTH witnesses' dead bodies lay exposed in the street of the great city at the same time for three and a half days, while people from different nations looked upon them and REFUSED to allow their bodies to be buried!

Yet Scripture plainly tells us that John the Baptist was buried by his disciples (Matthew 14:12) and Jesus Christ was buried in Joseph's tomb (Matthew 27:57–60). They died at different times, under different circumstances, and neither body remained exposed in the street together for three and a half days.

How much clearer can this contradiction be?

You cannot simply ignore these details because they do not fit your interpretation. You must demonstrate from Scripture how BOTH Jesus and John fulfilled these specific conditions in Revelation 11.

Until you can explain this, your interpretation FAILS to account for the very passage you claim supports it!

Come on, Earburner! Stop avoiding the obvious problem and deal with the biblical evidence. If you cannot reconcile your theory with these explicit Scriptures, then have the humility to admit that your interpretation is seriously flawed!

Remembering that the event of the two witnesses (John and Jesus) took place within 1260 days, the words "shall lie" are an insertion [ADDED] by the translators of the TR-Greek, for the KJV Bible. Knowing that, I should say that they are in violation of Rev. 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things [words] God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Here are the words of that insertion:
And their dead bodies (shall lie) in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Again, knowing that the two witnesses, John and Jesus, died within the period of 1260 days, which came to an end upon Jesus death, I now ask you to explain what it was that the centurion actually saw in Mat. 27:50-54, but couldn't explain it accurately?

Did he see literal dead bodies lying in the street? Or did he literally see resurrected dead bodies WALKING in the street (for 40 days)?
Note: at that time NO ONE KNEW what a resurrection was!! However, from this side of the fence,...WE DO!!

Good question, don't you think?
In light of the written insertion in Rev. 11:8,
do study Mat. 27:50-54 thoroughly, and you may discover that "the scribes" of the KJV made a dreadful mistake with THEIR insertion!!

Oh, and by the way, both John the Baptist and Jesus, who HAD the Holy Spirit before birth....could never DIE, though their mortal bodies did!!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Remembering that the event of the two witnesses (John and Jesus) took place within 1260 days, the words "shall lie" are an insertion [ADDED] by the translators of the TR-Greek, for the KJV Bible.

Earburner, this is becoming ridiculous! Rather than admitting that your interpretation of the Two Witnesses as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist contradicts the plain testimony of Scripture, you are now accusing the KJV translators of adding words to Revelation 11:8 and violating Revelation 22:18–19! All because the passage does not fit your doctrine?

Do you realize how seriously flawed your argument is?

First, let's examine your accusation concerning the words "shall lie" in Revelation 11:8.

Yes, the words "shall lie" are supplied in the KJV translation, as indicated by italics in many editions. But that does NOT mean the translators deliberately corrupted Scripture or added a new doctrine!

The Greek text reads:

καὶ τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τῆς πλατείας τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης

Literally, "And their dead body [or corpse] upon the street of the great city."

The Greek construction has no explicit verb in this clause. Supplying a verb such as "shall lie" is a normal translation practice to produce understandable English. It does not change the meaning of the passage.

But here is the problem you have completely overlooked!

Even if we remove the words "shall lie" entirely, YOUR interpretation still fails!

Why? Because Revelation 11:9 explicitly states:

"And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Did you catch that, Earburner?

The Greek of verse 9 explicitly includes the verb βλέπουσιν (blepousin), meaning "they see," and the prohibition against placing the bodies in a tomb.

Therefore, removing "shall lie" from verse 8 does absolutely NOTHING to resolve your problem! Sorry bud!

The passage STILL declares that the witnesses' corpses are publicly seen for three and a half days and are not permitted to be buried!

Yet Matthew 14:12 clearly states that John's disciples took his body and buried it.

Likewise, Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and placed it in a tomb.

Both were buried!

How can you possibly reconcile these historical accounts with Revelation 11:9, which explicitly says that the witnesses' bodies were NOT permitted to be placed in graves?

You cannot solve this contradiction by accusing translators of inserting two words!

Now, concerning your appeal to Matthew 27:50–54.

You ask whether the centurion saw dead bodies lying in the streets or resurrected bodies walking through Jerusalem.

But that is a false choice!

Matthew 27:52–53 says:

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Notice what Scripture actually says!

1. The graves were opened.
2. Many bodies of the saints arose.
3. They came out of their graves after Christ's resurrection.
4. They entered the holy city and appeared to many.

WHERE does Matthew identify these resurrected saints as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist?

NOWHERE!

Furthermore, Matthew 27:54 says that the centurion and those with him saw the earthquake and the things that were done, causing them to fear greatly and confess, "Truly this was the Son of God."

It does NOT say that the centurion witnessed resurrected saints walking through Jerusalem for forty days! In fact, Matthew places their emergence from the graves after Christ's resurrection, not at the moment of His death when the centurion made his confession.

You have inserted your own assumptions into Matthew's account while accusing the KJV translators of inserting words into Revelation!

And where does Matthew say these resurrected saints walked around Jerusalem for forty days?

Again, NOWHERE!

You appear to be borrowing the forty days from Acts 1:3, which concerns Christ showing Himself alive to His apostles after His resurrection, not the resurrected saints in Matthew 27.

Your claim that "no one knew what a resurrection was" is also biblically incorrect.

Have you forgotten John 11:24, where Martha declared:

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Or John 5:28–29, where Christ Himself taught about the resurrection?

The resurrection was certainly known as a doctrine, even though people did not yet fully understand Christ's own resurrection.

Finally, your statement that Jesus and John could never die because they possessed the Holy Spirit is irrelevant to the question!

Scripture plainly records their physical deaths. Revelation 11 likewise describes the deaths of the Two Witnesses. The issue is not whether their spirits continued to live, but whether the specific events described in Revelation 11 actually correspond to the historical deaths of Jesus and John.

And they do not!

Earburner, the problem is not with the KJV translators. The problem is with your interpretation.

You begin with the assumption that the Two Witnesses MUST be Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. Then, whenever Scripture contradicts that assumption, you attempt to reinterpret the passage, introduce unsupported historical claims, or even accuse the translators of corrupting God's Word.

That is not allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture. That is forcing Scripture to conform to your preconceived doctrine!

Let me repeat my challenge:

Revelation 11:9 explicitly says that the witnesses' bodies were seen for three and a half days and were NOT permitted to be buried. Yet Scripture explicitly records that BOTH Jesus and John were buried.

Stop diverting attention to the KJV translators, the centurion, or the resurrected saints in Matthew 27.

Explain Revelation 11:9 directly, using Scripture, without adding assumptions that the biblical text never makes!

Until you can do that, your interpretation remains unsupported by the very Scriptures you claim to defend.

And perhaps you should reconsider your accusation about adding to God's Word, because your own explanation repeatedly introduces details that Scripture never states! You remained refuted! Everytime!

 

[Truth7t7]

I have understood that the two witnesses (two olive branches) have already come.

Then who and what are they?

 

[Truth7t7]

And where does Matthew say these resurrected saints walked around Jerusalem for forty days?

Again, NOWHERE!

Have you forgotten John 11:24, where Martha declared:

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Those coming out of the Graves and walking through Jerusalem weren't Resurrected as you f!lsely claim, they (Were Raised From The Dead) just as Lazarus and Tabitha were, and the very verses you post supports this fact that the resurrection takes place on the future "Last Day"

 

[TribulationSigns]

Those coming out of the Graves and walking through Jerusalem weren't Resurrected as you f!lsely claim, they (Were Raised From The Dead) just as Lazarus and Tabitha were, and the very verses you post supports this fact that the resurrection takes place on the future "Last Day"

Tell that to Earburner. I was responding to his errors. Read careful next time.

 

[Earburner]

Therefore, the 1,260 days concern the Church's Spirit-empowered testimony under the New Covenant, not a joint ministry involving faithful saints who lived and died under the Old Covenant before the Cross.

Both you and @Truth7t7 misunderstand!! One of the two olive branches DIED for TWO churches, aka candlesticks.
Again, in a brief answer, in one sentence who were those two candlesticks (churches).
Rev. 11:4.
Here is a clue: Acts 7
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church (candlestick) in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

[Earburner]

Tell that to Earburner. I was responding to his errors. Read careful next time.

So then, the MANY OC saints through faith, who had been waiting a LONG time for the Promise and hope of Eternal Life to come, only got resurrected for 1 to 40 days,.....AND THATS IT??? "Its back into ground for you guys!! See ya in about 2026 years plus."
Jesus is going to tell them that the "thief on the cross" can be in heaven with Him, but the OC saints CAN'T??

Hello....Jesus died for the OC church also, which is one candlestick of the TWO!! Rev. 11:4.
Did You all forget that Jesus Himself IS THE FIRST Resurrection unto NEW life? Therefore NO ONE had ever seen a Resurrection unto NEW life.
Did they see a resuscitation of Lazarus? Yes!
Mat.27
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection [unto New Life], and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Notice when the Centurion saw the resurrection of the many OC saints:
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, [while on the cross] saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

 

[Earburner]

Earburner, this is becoming ridiculous! Rather than admitting that your interpretation of the Two Witnesses as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist contradicts the plain testimony of Scripture, you are now accusing the KJV translators of adding words to Revelation 11:8 and violating Revelation 22:18–19! All because the passage does not fit your doctrine?

Do you realize how seriously flawed your argument is?

First, let's examine your accusation concerning the words "shall lie" in Revelation 11:8.

Yes, the words "shall lie" are supplied in the KJV translation, as indicated by italics in many editions. But that does NOT mean the translators deliberately corrupted Scripture or added a new doctrine!

The Greek text reads:

καὶ τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τῆς πλατείας τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης

Literally, "And their dead body [or corpse] upon the street of the great city."

The Greek construction has no explicit verb in this clause. Supplying a verb such as "shall lie" is a normal translation practice to produce understandable English. It does not change the meaning of the passage.

But here is the problem you have completely overlooked!

Even if we remove the words "shall lie" entirely, YOUR interpretation still fails!

Why? Because Revelation 11:9 explicitly states:

"And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Did you catch that, Earburner?

The Greek of verse 9 explicitly includes the verb βλέπουσιν (blepousin), meaning "they see," and the prohibition against placing the bodies in a tomb.

Therefore, removing "shall lie" from verse 8 does absolutely NOTHING to resolve your problem! Sorry bud!

The passage STILL declares that the witnesses' corpses are publicly seen for three and a half days and are not permitted to be buried!

Yet Matthew 14:12 clearly states that John's disciples took his body and buried it.

Likewise, Matthew 27:57–60 tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea took Jesus' body and placed it in a tomb.

Both were buried!

How can you possibly reconcile these historical accounts with Revelation 11:9, which explicitly says that the witnesses' bodies were NOT permitted to be placed in graves?

You cannot solve this contradiction by accusing translators of inserting two words!

Now, concerning your appeal to Matthew 27:50–54.

You ask whether the centurion saw dead bodies lying in the streets or resurrected bodies walking through Jerusalem.

But that is a false choice!

Matthew 27:52–53 says:

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Notice what Scripture actually says!

1. The graves were opened.
2. Many bodies of the saints arose.
3. They came out of their graves after Christ's resurrection.
4. They entered the holy city and appeared to many.

WHERE does Matthew identify these resurrected saints as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist?

NOWHERE!

Furthermore, Matthew 27:54 says that the centurion and those with him saw the earthquake and the things that were done, causing them to fear greatly and confess, "Truly this was the Son of God."

It does NOT say that the centurion witnessed resurrected saints walking through Jerusalem for forty days! In fact, Matthew places their emergence from the graves after Christ's resurrection, not at the moment of His death when the centurion made his confession.

You have inserted your own assumptions into Matthew's account while accusing the KJV translators of inserting words into Revelation!

And where does Matthew say these resurrected saints walked around Jerusalem for forty days?

Again, NOWHERE!

You appear to be borrowing the forty days from Acts 1:3, which concerns Christ showing Himself alive to His apostles after His resurrection, not the resurrected saints in Matthew 27.

Your claim that "no one knew what a resurrection was" is also biblically incorrect.

Have you forgotten John 11:24, where Martha declared:

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Or John 5:28–29, where Christ Himself taught about the resurrection?

The resurrection was certainly known as a doctrine, even though people did not yet fully understand Christ's own resurrection.

Finally, your statement that Jesus and John could never die because they possessed the Holy Spirit is irrelevant to the question!

Scripture plainly records their physical deaths. Revelation 11 likewise describes the deaths of the Two Witnesses. The issue is not whether their spirits continued to live, but whether the specific events described in Revelation 11 actually correspond to the historical deaths of Jesus and John.

And they do not!

Earburner, the problem is not with the KJV translators. The problem is with your interpretation.

You begin with the assumption that the Two Witnesses MUST be Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. Then, whenever Scripture contradicts that assumption, you attempt to reinterpret the passage, introduce unsupported historical claims, or even accuse the translators of corrupting God's Word.

That is not allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture. That is forcing Scripture to conform to your preconceived doctrine!

Let me repeat my challenge:

Revelation 11:9 explicitly says that the witnesses' bodies were seen for three and a half days and were NOT permitted to be buried. Yet Scripture explicitly records that BOTH Jesus and John were buried.

Stop diverting attention to the KJV translators, the centurion, or the resurrected saints in Matthew 27.

Explain Revelation 11:9 directly, using Scripture, without adding assumptions that the biblical text never makes!

Until you can do that, your interpretation remains unsupported by the very Scriptures you claim to defend.

And perhaps you should reconsider your accusation about adding to God's Word, because your own explanation repeatedly introduces details that Scripture never states! You remained refuted! Everytime!

If you would just answer in one sentence WHO the two candlesticks (churches) are in Rev. 11:4, all of this discussion will come to the truth for all of us.