The war before Ezekiel 38

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shilohsfoal

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The old area of Togarmah is equal to today's Turkey. It's the last area to fall to the Gog alignment of nations, and it's in the works today, as President Trump just canceled sending F35s to Turkey, and sent Turkish pilots training on American soil back home; this because Turkey bought Russian missles against NATO wishes, as those missles are designed to attack NATO defenses.

I see the Ezek.38 & 39 events for the very last day of this world, linked with the battle of Armageddon when Jesus returns. The Gog event of Rev.20, I see that as a separate attack at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, and simply using the Gog-Magog label to symbolize Satan's gathering of the rebellious nations one final time.

How could you see Armegeddon as the last day of this world and still believe the natins attack Israel 1000 years later?

PS.Gog is not mentioned as being a particpant in the war of Armegeddon. The participants are the beast,tge false prophet and the kings of the east.
No Gog involved at this time.
 

Jay Ross

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The old area of Togarmah is equal to today's Turkey. It's the last area to fall to the Gog alignment of nations, and it's in the works today, as President Trump just canceled sending F35s to Turkey, and sent Turkish pilots training on American soil back home; this because Turkey bought Russian missles against NATO wishes, as those missles are designed to attack NATO defenses.

I see the Ezek.38 & 39 events for the very last day of this world, linked with the battle of Armageddon when Jesus returns. The Gog event of Rev.20, I see that as a separate attack at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, and simply using the Gog-Magog label to symbolize Satan's gathering of the rebellious nations one final time.

Let us put the true facts on the table concerning the timeline of events: -

Armageddon is a near future event, possibly in around 25 years time, since the three foul frog like spirits went out to all of the world to draw the kings of the world and their armies to rise up to go against Jerusalem where they will be judged in the sight of Jerusalem.

The God Magog battle occurs after Satan is released from the Bottomless pit and he goes out to all of the earth to raise up an army for his last ditched attempt to install himself as a deity king over all of the peoples of the earth. Satan's approach to Jerusalem will not occur for around 1,050 years into our distant future.

What we also know from Isa_24:21-22 is that Satan and his cohorts, the other wicked fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. the beasts, will be judged at the same time as the kings will be judged on the earth, and that the judged heavenly host and kings of the earth will be gathered together an imprisoned in a "pit/cistern," i.e. the bottomless pit of Rev_20:1-3, for 1,000 years to await the time of their punishment.

The other error that you have presented in your post is when Christ's second advent will occur. My understanding is that this will occur on the last day of the Millennium Age. Yes Christ will be "fleetingly seen" judging the kings of the earth, near Jerusalem at the beginning of the Millennium Age as well as at the Wedding Feats as He enters the hall before the door is closed, but both of these events are not His second Advent heralding the start of His permanent living here on the earth.

Shalom
.

Shalom
 

Keraz

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Because it doesnt say that.The word of God says it is Gog.God doesnt say this is someone similar to Gog.God does not say its an army silimilar to Gogs army.
God says thus is the one and only GOG.
Read the prophesies of the two attacks, they have nothing in common, excepting the huge number of troops.
Why worry about it, anyway?
 

Waiting on him

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Never overlook the war the land recovers from before Gog invades Israel.

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Once you learn of that war,you will understand why none of Israels neighbours (Egypt,Jordan,Syria,Turkey, Lebanon ,Gaza or Iraq invade Israel at the time Gog does.
Safety is the definition of salvation
 

shilohsfoal

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Read the prophesies of the two attacks, they have nothing in common, excepting the huge number of troops.
Why worry about it, anyway?

You say they have nothing in common.

Both scriptures ssaysthe attack is upon those who dwell in Israel.(Israel)
Both scriptures says the attack is performed by someone God calls Gog.
Both scriptures says Gog is killed by God in Israel.

You say both scriptures have nothing in common when the main theme is exactly the same.
Gog invades Israel and is killed by God.

But the most important thing to consider is Gods word.God specificly says this is Gog.God does not lie.

Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
 
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Davy

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How could you see Armegeddon as the last day of this world and still believe the natins attack Israel 1000 years later?

PS.Gog is not mentioned as being a particpant in the war of Armegeddon. The participants are the beast,tge false prophet and the kings of the east.
No Gog involved at this time.



The 7th Vial is the timing of Christ's return to do battle against the nations that come up against Israel on the last day of this world:

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV


Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV


That is a "day of the Lord" event, the event Peter spoke of in 2 Peter 3:10. That is how those armies coming out of the northern quarters upon Israel on the last day of this world are destroyed.


The Rev.20:9 event with Satan leading the deceived nations upon the "camp of the saints" after Christ's future thousand years reign is a different event. The "camp of the saints" means only Christ's elect Church on earth at that time, not the nation of Israel.
 

Davy

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Let us put the true facts on the table concerning the timeline of events: -

Armageddon is a near future event, possibly in around 25 years time, since the three foul frog like spirits went out to all of the world to draw the kings of the world and their armies to rise up to go against Jerusalem where they will be judged in the sight of Jerusalem.

The God Magog battle occurs after Satan is released from the Bottomless pit and he goes out to all of the earth to raise up an army for his last ditched attempt to install himself as a deity king over all of the peoples of the earth. Satan's approach to Jerusalem will not occur for around 1,050 years into our distant future.

The Gog-Magog event of Ezekiel 38 & 39 is for the very end of this world. It is what the battle of Armageddon will be about. It happens on the "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this present world. It is the Zephaniah 3:8 event of God gathering the nations to pour upon them His indignation and fierce anger. Ezekiel 40 then starts descriptions of the "thousand years" events of Revelation 20, which starts right after Christ's return.

1. The Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog alignment of nations in the 'northern quarters' of the earth is happening today.
2. The Revelation 20:8-9 Gog-Magog is an event after Christ's thousand years reign, and are the nations in the 'four quarters of the earth'.

1. The Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog come upon the mountains of Israel.
2. The Revelation 20:8-10 Gog-Magog come upon the "camp of the saints".

There's enough info given in those 2 chapters to show they are not the same event, but that they are two separate events using the same label for Christ's enemies. So there's really no use in arguing over it, the Scripture evidence is clear enough.
 

Keraz

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You say they have nothing in common.

Both scriptures ssaysthe attack is upon those who dwell in Israel.(Israel)
Both scriptures says the attack is performed by someone God calls Gog.
Both scriptures says Gog is killed by God in Israel.

1/ In the Ezekiel 38-39 attack, [G/M 1] they attack a people living unprotected, for loot and spoil.
In the end of the Millennium attack, [G/M 2] it is against Jesus, reigning as King in Jerusalem.
2/ Rev 20:8 says it is Satan who will muster the nations for war in G/M 2. But in G/M 1, the Lord leads out Gog's army.
3/ In G/M 1 the army is killed on the mountains of Israel. In G/M 2, they are killed as they lay siege to Jerusalem.

Two separate attacks, over 1000 years apart.
Make more effort to promote the truth, rather then your fanciful notions.
And Davy: G/M 1 is not Armageddon!
 

shilohsfoal

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The 7th Vial is the timing of Christ's return to do battle against the nations that come up against Israel on the last day of this world:

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV


Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV


That is a "day of the Lord" event, the event Peter spoke of in 2 Peter 3:10. That is how those armies coming out of the northern quarters upon Israel on the last day of this world are destroyed.


The Rev.20:9 event with Satan leading the deceived nations upon the "camp of the saints" after Christ's future thousand years reign is a different event. The "camp of the saints" means only Christ's elect Church on earth at that time, not the nation of Israel.

Its really sad when i hear people say "saints" or" church"and exclude the nation of Israel.Its as if you dont believe an Israeli could be chosen.Do you not know that that the apostles were Israelis?

Yes ,there are saints who are Israelis.Even the saints who die because of thier testimony of Christ and do not worship the beast or his image can be Israelis.In,fact they could ALL be Israelis.
 

shilohsfoal

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1/ In the Ezekiel 38-39 attack, [G/M 1] they attack a people living unprotected, for loot and spoil.
In the end of the Millennium attack, [G/M 2] it is against Jesus, reigning as King in Jerusalem.
2/ Rev 20:8 says it is Satan who will muster the nations for war in G/M 2. But in G/M 1, the Lord leads out Gog's army.
3/ In G/M 1 the army is killed on the mountains of Israel. In G/M 2, they are killed as they lay siege to Jerusalem.

Two separate attacks, over 1000 years apart.
Make more effort to promote the truth, rather then your fanciful notions.
And Davy: G/M 1 is not Armageddon!

You say the people who God protects is unprotected.lol
The reason the people in Ezekiel 38 have no walls and no man made protection is because they dont need any.Why waste time building a wall when you know no one can kill you and no one can,take the land that God has given you?Whos going to take it from God?lol

PS,dont forget.God says this is Gog and God does not lie.No matter how you try to maneuver around Gods word, you cant change the fact that God says this is Gog.

Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
 
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Davy

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Its really sad when i hear people say "saints" or" church"and exclude the nation of Israel.Its as if you dont believe an Israeli could be chosen.Do you not know that that the apostles were Israelis?

Yes ,there are saints who are Israelis.Even the saints who die because of thier testimony of Christ and do not worship the beast or his image can be Israelis.In,fact they could ALL be Israelis.

You've gone off topic.

Yes, there are those born of the house of Judah (Jews) that are believers on Christ Jesus, and the idea of saints was applied to the Old Testament believers too. So I'm not leaving those out.

But as for today, orthodox Jews in the world who still reject Jesus, no, they are not included in the group of saints I deem as Christ's Church. Otherwise, it would be saying that anyone could be called a saint. No, those today who reject Jesus Christ as God's Promised Saviour are not saints.
 

shilohsfoal

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You've gone off topic.

Yes, there are those born of the house of Judah (Jews) that are believers on Christ Jesus, and the idea of saints was applied to the Old Testament believers too. So I'm not leaving those out.

But as for today, orthodox Jews in the world who still reject Jesus, no, they are not included in the group of saints I deem as Christ's Church. Otherwise, it would be saying that anyone could be called a saint. No, those today who reject Jesus Christ as God's Promised Saviour are not saints.

I didnt say anything about orthodox jews and neither did you in,your privious post.You say there will be no Israel.Your wrong
 

Davy

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I didnt say anything about orthodox jews and neither did you in,your privious post.You say there will be no Israel.Your wrong

Like I said, you went off topic. The topic was the Ezek.38 Gog-Magog events for the end of this world, and usage of that label for after Christ's Millennial reign. And in one of those posts, I did make the distinction of who the Rev.20 "camp of saints" represents, i.e., Christ's Church and not the nation of Israel.
 

shilohsfoal

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Like I said, you went off topic. The topic was the Ezek.38 Gog-Magog events for the end of this world, and usage of that label for after Christ's Millennial reign. And in one of those posts, I did make the distinction of who the Rev.20 "camp of saints" represents, i.e., Christ's Church and not the nation of Israel.

I happen to understand the camp of the saints in rev 20 is Israel.
I know who they are.
 

Davy

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I happen to understand the camp of the saints in rev 20 is Israel.

Christ's Apostles, the OT prophets, and Jesus will be there, with His Church. You may call that Israel, but I don't think that is who you are pointing to.

Based on what you have already said about the idea of 'saints', you apparently believe that orthodox Jews that rejected Jesus of Nazareth will somehow magically become saints in His Church when He returns, and will gather them along with His Church to go to Jerusalem. Well, that isn't written.

Here is what is... written about those unbelieving Jews when Jesus returns:

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

Matt 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The Mark 13:24-27 version has His elect that are on earth being gathered. Both examples together represent what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4. That is not... about a gathering of unbelieving Israel.




Zech 12:7
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
KJV

Christ (with His elect) will touch down upon the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14 on the "day of the Lord". And they will reign in Jerusalem over all nations with a "rod of iron", including over the nation of Israel. That is how the house of Judah there in today's state of Israel will be saved, not suffering destruction by the nations that surround Jerusalem on God's day of vengeance.




Zech 12:9-10
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
KJV


It is that day when true Judah that was deceived will have their blindness which God put upon them removed, and many of them will believe on Jesus as The Christ. That is who Jesus was talking about in Luke 23 with the daughters of Jerusalem, telling them not to weep for Him, but for theirselves, because the day will come when they shall say, "... Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." (Luke 23:29). They will have been deceived by false messiah, and will be in shame, and will bless those who didn't fall away. We are to spiritually remain "a chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus to come. Those who remain faithful to Jesus will remain so. The orthodox Jews who follow the "synagogue of Satan" will not remain faithful, and will be found in shame when Jesus appears. They will know it too, which is why they will mourn for Jesus as one who mourns for his only son.
 

shilohsfoal

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Christ's Apostles, the OT prophets, and Jesus will be there, with His Church. You may call that Israel, but I don't think that is who you are pointing to.

Based on what you have already said about the idea of 'saints', you apparently believe that orthodox Jews that rejected Jesus of Nazareth will somehow magically become saints in His Church when He returns, and will gather them along with His Church to go to Jerusalem. Well, that isn't written.

Here is what is... written about those unbelieving Jews when Jesus returns:

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

Matt 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The Mark 13:24-27 version has His elect that are on earth being gathered. Both examples together represent what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4. That is not... about a gathering of unbelieving Israel.




Zech 12:7
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
KJV

Christ (with His elect) will touch down upon the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14 on the "day of the Lord". And they will reign in Jerusalem over all nations with a "rod of iron", including over the nation of Israel. That is how the house of Judah there in today's state of Israel will be saved, not suffering destruction by the nations that surround Jerusalem on God's day of vengeance.




Zech 12:9-10
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
KJV


It is that day when true Judah that was deceived will have their blindness which God put upon them removed, and many of them will believe on Jesus as The Christ. That is who Jesus was talking about in Luke 23 with the daughters of Jerusalem, telling them not to weep for Him, but for theirselves, because the day will come when they shall say, "... Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." (Luke 23:29). They will have been deceived by false messiah, and will be in shame, and will bless those who didn't fall away. We are to spiritually remain "a chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus to come. Those who remain faithful to Jesus will remain so. The orthodox Jews who follow the "synagogue of Satan" will not remain faithful, and will be found in shame when Jesus appears. They will know it too, which is why they will mourn for Jesus as one who mourns for his only son.

I didnt say anything about the orthodox jews but if God chose to draw them to Christ he can.
He can chose anyone he wants just as he chose Paul .

But i understand that the saints mentioned in revelation 20 are of Israel.Not the US,not Russia,not China.
They are of Israel.
I know who they are .

I guess you think the little horn persecutes every christian in,the world but thIs is not the truth.He pesecutes the saints in Israel and those saints inherit the kingdom of Israel.
 

Davy

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I didnt say anything about the orthodox jews but if God chose to draw them to Christ he can.
He can chose anyone he wants just as he chose Paul .

But i understand that the saints mentioned in revelation 20 are of Israel.Not the US,not Russia,not China.
They are of Israel.
I know who they are .

Those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory, which of course is not an idea written in God's Word, also believe like you do, that the Rev.20 "camp of the saints" means the nation of Israel, and not Christ's Church. They believe Christ's Church will be off the earth, in Heaven, where they also believe Jesus reigns from. That's basically the idea you default to with joining the unbelievers of Israel with Christ's Church.
 

shilohsfoal

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Those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory, which of course is not an idea written in God's Word, also believe like you do, that the Rev.20 "camp of the saints" means the nation of Israel, and not Christ's Church. They believe Christ's Church will be off the earth, in Heaven, where they also believe Jesus reigns from. That's basically the idea you default to with joining the unbelievers of Israel with Christ's Church.

No,pretribers dont believe what i believe.But i will tell you this.The little horn does not persecute the saints in China.He does not pesrcute the saints in Mexico.
He persrcutes the saints in Israel and thosr same saints who are persrcuted by the little horn in Istael shall be given the land of Israel.God shall take the kingdom from the little horn and give it to thosr same saints.

Daniel 7:25 KJV: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:26 KJV: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Daniel 7:27 KJV: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The same saints that is persecuted in Israel by the little horn for thosr three and a half years shall inherit the promised land forever and no one can take it away from,them.
 

Davy

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No,pretribers dont believe what i believe.But i will tell you this.The little horn does not persecute the saints in China.He does not pesrcute the saints in Mexico.
He persrcutes the saints in Israel and thosr same saints who are persrcuted by the little horn in Istael shall be given the land of Israel.God shall take the kingdom from the little horn and give it to thosr same saints.

I cannot agree with you on who all he will persecute. God's Word does not single out just one nation, but the whole Church in all nations...

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

The coming great trib is not going to just affect those in the state of Israel where the pseudo-Christ will appear. He will work his deceit upon all nations. And only those sealed by The Holy Spirit in all nations, will know to reject him.
 

shilohsfoal

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I cannot agree with you on who all he will persecute. God's Word does not single out just one nation, but the whole Church in all nations...

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

The coming great trib is not going to just affect those in the state of Israel where the pseudo-Christ will appear. He will work his deceit upon all nations. And only those sealed by The Holy Spirit in all nations, will know to reject him.

Actually the word of God does single out. Israelis as those who are persecuted for those three and a half years but you have to be quick to hear God.

Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

They wont even go out into the nations.They will do exactly what Jesus says to do.