The whole of the NT explains how salvation is obtained

[OzSpen]

[SIZE=9.5pt]Scripture explains how man attains salvation, and it also [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]reconciles all of the supposed contradictions concerning salvation …[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]First, all humans are born with an inherited sin nature (a “fallen” nature),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]e.g. Jesus actually told His disciples that they were “evil”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]The normal human being is incapable of believing the gospel (good news) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]of Jesus Christ because the Truth of it is hidden from him … man is:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]spiritually blind and deaf, spiritually dead, a slave to sin, forced to obey evil,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]a captive to the law of sin and death, unable to be saved through good works, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]deceived and blinded by Satan, a captive of Satan unto death, etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]The gospel of Jesus Christ is “foolishness” to all those perishing (going to hell). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]They do not choose this, but are just incapable of believing the foolish gospel.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]God’s grace (unmerited favor) toward the mass of fallen humanity is 3-fold:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]• that ANY human could ever be received into heaven by a most Holy God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]• that SOME humans are given the ability to believe the saving gospel[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]• that sincere repentance can usually result in the forgiveness of sins[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]God must give a seed of faith to man to enable him to believe the foolish gospel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]This is not a one-time event, but the Greek tense indicates a continuing belief.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]That only some are chosen is consistent with God’s preference, for example:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]“I dwell in the high and holy place with him who has a contrite and humble spirit”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]The question is: How-when-why did certain people obtain this type of spirit?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt](*A*) Along with truly believing the saving Truth of the gospel with his heart, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]man receives the Holy Spirit within, and is born-again with a new nature.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]After receiving this free gift (a revelation of the Truth), the believer will begin[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]to be taught deeper spiritual Truths by the precious Holy Spirit who dwells within.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]Man is no longer a slave to sin; he no longer has to sin; he can choose not to sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]He can present himself as a slave of obedience unto righteousness for holiness,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]or he can choose to present himself as a slave of sin unto eternal death. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]One critical spiritual Truth is that [/SIZE][SIZE=9.5pt]disobedience to God is actually proof of unbelief.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]In the OT, the Israelites did not enter God’s rest because of disobedience (unbelief).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]God left them scattered all over the desert floor; and this was a warning for everyone![/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]Born-again believers have much less of an excuse for failure … see (*A*) above.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]So, here Scripture gives another negative response to the question of [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]whether or not easy-believism and easy-grace are enough for salvation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]The main reason for God giving man free will is to test his love, faithfulness, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]obedience, etc. to God his Creator. Yes, Jesus became the author of eternal [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]salvation to all who obey Him … and this obedience does not refer to believing [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]in Him and His gospel after having received the precious free gift of saving faith.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]No, Jesus said that if you love Him (for His sacrifice, etc.), you will obey Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]The practicing of righteousness is proof that one stands righteous before God. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]After receiving the saving Truth, the believer can always make the disastrous [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]free-will choice of not continuing on with his faith. Many Scripture passages [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]warn that enduring in the faith until death is absolutely necessary for salvation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]You must not fall away from the faith when the terrible persecution of Christians[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]comes upon you, and you must not take the mark of the beast of the antichrist.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]It’s all about unbelief … and the NT describes exactly what unbelief is. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]An evil [/SIZE][SIZE=9.5pt]heart of unbelief is displayed by one who departs from the faith, and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]this is [/SIZE][SIZE=9.5pt]often connected to one having been hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]After receiving the saving Truth, the believer can always make the free-will choice[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]to be disobedient and return to their old lifestyle of habitual unrepentant sinning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]Several lists of sins, which many people (including believers) commit habitually, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]apply to absolutely everyone with regard to being disqualified from entering [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]the kingdom of God/heaven (which is somewhat analogous to heaven itself).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]If you wish to see Scriptures for any of the points above, please just ask.[/SIZE]

Zachary,

I found you posted this same OP with the same title on another forum at: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-whole-of-the-nt-explains-how-salvation-is-obtained.7930447/.

You posted it on this other forum 3 days before you posted it here.

What is the point you are trying to prove in raising the same issue on 2 different forums, especially when the other forum is much larger than this one?

Oz

 

[Zachary]

What is the point you are trying to prove in raising the same issue on 2 different forums,
especially when the other forum is much larger than this one?

What is the point of warning "believers" that they will be going to hell,
if they continue with their habitual unrepentant sinning?

Gee, I don't really know ... perhaps you might explain it to me!

Another related issue ...
Many (most?) believers who are trusting in being raptured out of here
before their Christian persecution hits them will be so devasted that
they will leave the faith, become apostate, etc. and end up in hell.
Ditto, if they take the mark of the beast (just a couple of years later).

So, here we have a trinity (3) of threats of losing any salvation that one might actually have.

 

[KingJ]

What is the point of warning "believers" that they will be going to hell,
if they continue with their habitual unrepentant sinning?

Gee, I don't really know ... perhaps you might explain it to me!

Another related issue ...
Many (most?) believers who are trusting in being raptured out of here
before their Christian persecution hits them will be so devasted that
they will leave the faith, become apostate, etc. and end up in hell.
Ditto, if they take the mark of the beast (just a couple of years later).

So, here we have a trinity (3) of threats of losing any salvation that one might actually have.

Nobody can lose salvation once they have it. God is not dumb. He does not make mistakes. He judges heart and mind at a level we can't. He knows us better then we know ourselves. The issue centres 100% around us ensuring that we are in fact in Christ.

Jesus, Paul and all the others who contributed to the NT never differentiated between saved and unsaved. They differentiated between those professing to be saved VS those not.

As for the terrible times coming, we who are in Christ will not be tempted beyond what we can handle. There must be some depth to us or else we would not be Christians. Lets just ensure today that we are in Christ. I dont think there is a single Christian that doubts we will see tough times. Likewise there is not a single devout Christian that doubts God not being with them in that time. Absolutely no point worrying about tomorrow.

 

[StanJ]

What is the point of warning "believers" that they will be going to hell,
if they continue with their habitual unrepentant sinning?

Gee, I don't really know ... perhaps you might explain it to me!

Another related issue ...
Many (most?) believers who are trusting in being raptured out of here
before their Christian persecution hits them will be so devasted that
they will leave the faith, become apostate, etc. and end up in hell.
Ditto, if they take the mark of the beast (just a couple of years later).

So, here we have a trinity (3) of threats of losing any salvation that one might actually have.

Believers don't go to hell, and they also don't 'lose' their salvation. The great falling away is apostasy, which is NOT the same thing.
How would YOU know anyone is sinning and not repenting?
Are you part of this MOST you keep referring to, or are you the special sinless type?

 

[OzSpen]

What is the point of warning "believers" that they will be going to hell,
if they continue with their habitual unrepentant sinning?

Gee, I don't really know ... perhaps you might explain it to me!

Another related issue ...
Many (most?) believers who are trusting in being raptured out of here
before their Christian persecution hits them will be so devasted that
they will leave the faith, become apostate, etc. and end up in hell.
Ditto, if they take the mark of the beast (just a couple of years later).

So, here we have a trinity (3) of threats of losing any salvation that one might actually have.

That is not the title of the thread you started here. it is: 'The whole of the NT explains how salvation is obtained'. In fact, when I responded to you in #3 to show that this is an extreme statement that is untrue, you didn't even bother to respond. I wonder why?

Why don't you start another thread, 'Warning believers they could go to hell', that would more accurately confirm what you have stated in your reply to me here.

Your trinity of threats is your speculation, mixed in with your eschatological views.

However, please remember the title of this thread that you started: The whole of the NT explains how salvation is obtained. This is not a factual statement.

Oz

 

[Zachary]

I dont think there is a single Christian that doubts we will see tough times.

Guess you haven't heard of the pre-trib rapture doctrine.
What cave dost thou reside in anyway?
I've lost track ... [comment removed.]

 

[KingJ]

Guess you haven't heard of the pre-trib rapture doctrine.
What cave dost thou reside in anyway?
I've lost track ...[removed]

Most pretribbers I have spoken too believe Matt 24:9 is persecution en route before the rapture.

I believe mid trib rapture but completely understand many believing pre trib. The restrainer needing to leave for the devil's child to have his way makes logical sense. According to history God has always protected His people from His wrath and has not handed us over to the devil to be devoured. Nero was not the anti christ.

 

[ATP]

The restrainer needing to leave for the devil's child to have his way makes logical sense.

The restrainer isn't the church. It's Michael the angel. Tradition tells us it's the church, but the Bible tells us it's Michael. The restrainer is Michael the angel at the abomination of desolation. The word "arise" in Dan 12:1 is translated "amad" and can also mean to...

1. stand still, stop, cease moving, of moon Joshua 10:13 (J E; "" וַיִּדֹּם), sun Joshua 10:13, both, Habakkuk 3:11; of person 1 Samuel 9:27 (opposed to עָבַר), 2 Samuel 2:28 (opposed to רָדַף), עִמְדוּ עֲמֹ֫דוּ Nahum 2:9 +; stop flowing (of oil) 2 Kings 4:6; remain standing, with תַּחְתֵּינוּ Judges 7:21; 1 Samuel 14:9 etc.; of eruption in skin = remain unchanged Leviticus 13:23,28; so (without ׳ת) Leviticus 13:5,37 (all P).
2. be inactive 2 Chronicles 20:17 (opposed to לְהִלָּחֵם, + הִתְיַצְּבוּ).
3. stop, cease doing a thing 2 Kings 13:18; with מִן Genesis 29:35; Genesis 30:9 (both J), Joel 1:15.
4. tarry, delay Genesis 45:9 (E), Joshua 10:19 (J E; opposed to רָדַף), 1 Samuel 20:38 (opposed to מְהֵרָה, חוּשָׁה), +.
5. stand afar מֵרָחוֺק Exodus 20:18,21 (E), Isaiah 59:14; Psalm 38:12, ׳בְּר Psalm 10:1; ׳מִנֶּגֶד מֵר 2 Kings 2:7; stand aloof, מִנֶֹּגֶד Obadiah 11; Psalm 38:12.
6. stand (silent) Job 32:16.
7. grow flat, insipid (Gie), taste of wine Jeremiah 48:11 (figurative of Moab), or remain unchanged (so most, in that case compare 3b). — עָמְדִי Daniel 11:1b is corrupt, read probably עָמַדְתִּי, or עָמַד (מִיכָאֵל subject), join then to Daniel 10:21 and strike out Daniel 11:1a; so Bev Behrm MartiKau.

Why does Michael stop moving? So God can send them a strong delusion 2 Thess 2:10-12 NIV. It is clear that there are angelic powers over world empires and leaders and nobody is going to come to power in the land of Israel if the angel of Israel (Michael) prevents them.

Dan 12:1 NIV “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Rev 12:6-12 NIV The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. 7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

 

[ATP]

I believe mid trib rapture

Mid trib is incorrect. The great tribulation begins mid trib, but scripture states that believers will go through that period first. The correct term is titled "Prewrath"...

Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewra01.JPG

1. Antichrist signs peace treaty with Israel to begin the 70th week Isa 28:15 NIV, Isa 28:18 NIV, Isa 57:8-9 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Rev 6:2 NIV, Rev 6:8 NIV.
2. The third temple is built Ez 40-48 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV.
3. The first 3.5 years are birth pains, the first four seals are open along with apostasy of Jews Dan 11:36-45 NIV, Matt 24:4-7, 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, Rev 6:1-8 NIV.
4. At the middle of the 70th week the abomination of desolation takes place Dan 9:27 NIV, Dan 11:31 NIV, Dan 12:11 NIV, Matt 24:15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV.
5. Michael the angel, the restrainer is removed here Dan 12:1 NIV, 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV, Rev 12:6-12 NIV.
6. Immediately after the abomination of desolation the fifth seal is open and the Great Tribulation begins, man's rebellion against God Rev 6:9-11 NIV.
7. This is right around where the two witnesses make their appearance and prophesy for 1,260 days Mal 4:5 NIV, Rev 11:2-3 NIV.
8. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week now begins.
9. Then the Great Tribulation is cut short around the middle of the last 3.5 years Matt 24:22 NIV.
10. Immediately after the Great Tribulation ends cosmic disturbances occur before the Day of the Lord begins.
11. The 144,000 are then sealed before the rapture, so they can enter the Day of the Lord without harm Rev 7:2-4 NIV.
12. The rapture occurs at the seventh seal, after the Great Tribulation and at the beginning of the Day of the Lord Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rev 7:14 NIV, Rev 8:1-5 NIV.
13. The Bema Seat of Christ is here Matt 16:27 NIV, Luke 14:14-15 NIV, 2 Cor 5:10 NIV, Rev 19:8-9 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.
14. The Feast/Marriage Supper of the Lamb is also here Luke 14:14-15 NIV, Rev 7:9 NIV, Rev 19:1 NIV, Rev 19:9 NIV.
15. Then begins the Day of the Lord, the start of God's wrath of trumpets. The 5th trumpet will also last five months Rev 9:5 NIV.
16. At the end of the 70th week the beast will kill the two witnesses, but after 3.5 days they will come alive Rev 11:7-12 NIV.
17. Very few people will be left after the 70th week is complete Zech 13:8-9 NIV.
18. Jesus Christ landing on the Mount of Olives is here Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:1-12 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV, Zech 14:4 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rom 11:26-27 NIV, Jude 1:14-15 NIV, Rev 19:11-21 NIV.
19. After the 70th week is complete the bowl judgments begin for 30 days Dan 12:11 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV.
20. Then the 45 days begin for cleansing of the Temple Dan 12:12 NIV, Zech 13:1-6 NIV.
21. After the 45 days are finished the 1,000 year millennium begins Rev 20:4-6 NIV.
22. Nonbelievers will also be a part of the 1,000 year millennium Zech 14:16-19 NIV.
23. After the 1,000 years are finished, the dead believers and nonbelievers that are left over will be judged Rev 20:11-15 NIV.
24. Then a New Heaven and a New Earth will appear making everything new Rev 21:1-8 NIV.
25. Lastly, Eden is restored in which we now live with Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen Rev 22:1-5 NIV.

Side Note 1: The full seven years are never called "the tribulation period", rather the 70th week is the proper name to describe the seven years.

Side Note 2: The Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same event. The GT is man's rebellion against God, and the Day of the Lord is God's wrath against man. These two events are split in half in the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. The church will have to go through the first five seals and also the GT, but they will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins, God's wrath of trumpets and bowls. The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

 

[KingJ]

Mid trib is incorrect. The great tribulation begins mid trib, but scripture states that believers will go through that period first. The correct term is titled "Prewrath"...

I can agree with your posts. Thanks, very informative.

 

[Zachary]

Most pretribbers I have spoken too believe Matt 24:9 is persecution en route before the rapture.
I believe mid trib rapture but completely understand many believing pre trib.
The restrainer needing to leave for the devil's child to have his way makes logical sense.
According to history God has always protected His people from His wrath and has not
handed us over to the devil to be devoured. Nero was not the anti christ.

The wrath of God has zero to do with the antichrist ... it is poured out on the last day of the Day of the Lord.

 

[Zachary]

The restrainer isn't the church. It's Michael the angel. Tradition tells us it's the church, but the Bible tells us it's Michael.

IMO, most of us believe it is the Holy Spirit.

 

[StanJ]

Indeed.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/related-topics/who-is-the-restrainer.html