The "Whosoevers."

[Episkopos]

I found this testimony to be both interesting and compelling...and uplifting. I am sharing it here to discuss the approach to having this kind of witness in the world. Now the speaker is Sonny Sandoval...the singer from "Payable On Death" a heavy metal/rap group that has sold millions of records. Sandy is outspoken in his faith in a place that seems at odds with his direction in life. But I think he is well placed to call out to the troubled youth he has gathered around himself. God has him there. But here is that video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpIezH64ro&t=12s

 

[Hidden In Him]

I found this testimony to be both interesting and compelling...and uplifting. I am sharing it here to discuss the approach to having this kind of witness in the world. Now the speaker is Sonny Sandoval...the singer from "Payable On Death" a heavy metal/rap group that has sold millions of records. Sandy is outspoken in his faith in a place that seems at odds with his direction in life. But I think he is well placed to call out to the troubled youth he has gathered around himself. God has him there. But here is that video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpIezH64ro&t=12s

I find him sincere. I remember POD back in the day, and I wondered if they were legit. But the following explains it as well.

4:25+ is very well put, and maybe shines light on why more Christians don't reach the lost as much as they could. They're so busy trying to be "proper" that they forget to be themselves. And what people (especially young people these days) want to see is real, not religious.

 

[Episkopos]

So we see that being sincere like Sonny reaches out to people. What makes the position of the "Whoevers" attractive in it's simplicity is that they avoid being religious and preachy. They step away from dogmatism or doctrinal positions. They are simple people who acknowledge their need of Jesus.

And this is a good thing.

There is another side to this of course. We can't all move into the 'hood and get tatted up with our bros and start shucking and jiving with the homies.

For they who come from that...fine....it's real for them. It's genuine. God meets people where they are. He works with what we have and are.

But being in that kind of environment does not lend itself to growth in Christ. People there tend to remain on square one...always at the door...always calling people inside from outside. The same testimony of the initial salvation...over and over. And that is of course the calling of certain people. But it is a hard place to be in...to be in and remain faithful. A person there is always struggling with hanging onto the first love experience. To avoid being seduced away from the purity of the Christian walk into the attractions of the world. A constant memory refreshing...since new experiences are mostly worldly. Of course there is a deeper work among the unbelievers too. And this encourages faith. But this is external to the inner life of the person.

Having one foot in both worlds helps to save others away from the world and into a walk with Christ. But who is going to help that one when the world is too strong to resist? Sinning would seem inevitable. But all in a good cause. I do believe that Jesus is merciful with the immature and weak. But there are limits to that.

A lack of support from the churches is telling. The churches would seem to only criticize that one that reaches out THAT far.

So he is a man who belongs nowhere in this world. (And that is actually a good place to be)

The religious reject you as well as the worldly. And growth in Christ is very difficult because of the lure of the world. So that walk is very difficult. And this should be recognized by people who live a much more sheltered life.

 

[Episkopos]

Now the word "whosoever" can be speaking on more than one level.

The verse used by Sonny et all is actually not the best one to describe his stand...although it can still work.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Actually that should read believes INTO Him. They who believe to where Jesus is experience an eternal kind of life. So that is on the holiness level...to be as He is in the world by abiding in Christ who is in Zion.

But there is also a verse like this...

Acts 10:34, 35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

So the statement of Peter is probably closer to the truth concerning the group that calls itself "Whosoevers". We are talking of being justified by faith and not walking in holiness per se.

 

[amadeus]

So we see that being sincere like Sonny reaches out to people. What makes the position of the "Whoevers" attractive in it's simplicity is that they avoid being religious and preachy. They step away from dogmatism or doctrinal positions. They are simple people who acknowledge their need of Jesus.

And this is a good thing.

There is another side to this of course. We can't all move into the 'hood and get tatted up with our bros and start shucking and jiving with the homies.

For they who come from that...fine....it's real for them. It's genuine. God meets people where they are. He works with what we have and are.

But being in that kind of environment does not lend itself to growth in Christ. People there tend to remain on square one...always at the door...always calling people inside from outside. The same testimony of the initial salvation...over and over. And that is of course the calling of certain people. But it is a hard place to be in...to be in and remain faithful. A person there is always struggling with hanging onto the first love experience. To avoid being seduced away from the purity of the Christian walk into the attractions of the world. A constant memory refreshing...since new experiences are mostly worldly. Of course there is a deeper work among the unbelievers too. And this encourages faith. But this is external to the inner life of the person.

Having one foot in both worlds helps to save others away from the world and into a walk with Christ. But who is going to help that one when the world is too strong to resist? Sinning would seem inevitable. But all in a good cause. I do believe that Jesus is merciful with the immature and weak. But there are limits to that.

A lack of support from the churches is telling. The churches would seem to only criticize that one that reaches out THAT far.

So he is a man who belongs nowhere in this world. (And that is actually a good place to be)

The religious reject you as well as the worldly. And growth in Christ is very difficult because of the lure of the world. So that walk is very difficult. And this should be recognized by people who live a much more sheltered life.

"Having one foot in both worlds!" With Sonny and God that may be working very well if he really leans hard on Jesus for support and lives in a way 'day to day' in which people notice a "good" difference in him for he is one that many people apparently look at... [I honestly had never heard of him name before reading your thread.]

What I saw in your words made me think of the difference when some sitting regularly on a church pew supposedly are doing that: "one foot in both worlds". But are they really even doing that much? Exceptions exist, but for too many their effort on God's behalf is often only what they give of themselves during those short meetings while sitting on a pew. They may have the support of the 'church' but what it that their 'church' is really doing for God? Tickling the ears of its own pew sitters and...? Are they really double minded or... not even really striving to mix together the best of the two worlds since the one for God is all show. If nothing at all is happening outside the 'church', and down in their hearts they don't really care...? Would we call that coldness or apostacy or apathy or...?

 

[Hidden In Him]

There is another side to this of course. We can't all move into the 'hood and get tatted up with our bros and start shucking and jiving with the homies.

For they who come from that...fine....it's real for them. It's genuine. God meets people where they are. He works with what we have and are.

But being in that kind of environment does not lend itself to growth in Christ. People there tend to remain on square one...always at the door...always calling people inside from outside. The same testimony of the initial salvation...over and over. And that is of course the calling of certain people. But it is a hard place to be in...to be in and remain faithful. A person there is always struggling with hanging onto the first love experience. To avoid being seduced away from the purity of the Christian walk into the attractions of the world.

Yes. Step #1 is to be real even in our immaturity. Step #2 is to be real in growing up into Christ in all things.

I do believe that Jesus is merciful with the immature and weak. But there are limits to that.

A lack of support from the churches is telling. The churches would seem to only criticize that one that reaches out THAT far.

So he is a man who belongs nowhere in this world. (And that is actually a good place to be)

Yes. Church is where the mature in Christ are supposed to be, so that seekers can be led to an even greater experience of Him. Oftentimes, however, this is not the case. Quite the opposite, and they are repelled instead of drawn closer.

The religious reject you as well as the worldly. And growth in Christ is very difficult because of the lure of the world. So that walk is very difficult. And this should be recognized by people who live a much more sheltered life.

Regarding your last sentence, I actually recommend a more sheltered life under the circumstances. I would not be to the level of maturity I am today if I had not separated myself out from much of modern Christianity. I wish them the best and do not reject them, but if I had continued to depend upon them for my spiritual growth I would be in a squalid mess.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes. Step #1 is to be real even in our immaturity. Step #2 is to be real in growing up into Christ in all things.


Yes. Church is where the mature in Christ are supposed to be, so that seekers can be led to an even greater experience of Him. Oftentimes, however, this is not the case. Quite the opposite, and they are repelled instead of drawn closer.


Regarding your last sentence, I actually recommend a more sheltered life under the circumstances. I would not be to the level of maturity I am today if I had not separated myself out from much of modern Christianity. I wish them the best and do not reject them, but if I had continued to depend upon them for my spiritual growth I would be in a squalid mess.

Agree with your last point. We are not to look for a life on the edge. But there are people that God places there. It's up to us to support such brothers in prayer without judgment.