The will of God, how do we know?

[rand]

I think God spoke to me the other day, and it was radical. Something I've never thought of before. It bothered me at first, but then, WOW! It's a revelation. Something that He revealed to me while I was thinking about the scriptures I'm about to share with you. BUt then I had this question: How do we know for sure God's will?

I thinking about James 5:14-15 If any of you is sick, he should call the elders to pray and anoint with oil and the prayer of faith will heal him. But unless we know it's God's will to heal everyone, we really can't pray a prayer of faith for that person can we? At best we will praying a prayer of hope.

Not that I have anything against hope, but it's not what James tells us will get that person healed. So, is it God's will to heal everyone? Jesus healed everyone that would let Him, and Jesus only did what He saw the Father do. Now, I'm well aware there are a lot of scriptures that seem to contradict that being God's will, but are we really looking at God's words or are we looking at what the seem to imply?

What is God's will on Healing? What is God's will on Salvation? What is God's will for each of us? What is God's will for each of them (the world)? How do we know we are believing and praying according to His will?

I'm still gonna keep searching--to see what else He shows me, cuz that was awesome.

 

[Axehead]

I think God spoke to me the other day, and it was radical. Something I've never thought of before. It bothered me at first, but then, WOW! It's a revelation. Something that He revealed to me while I was thinking about the scriptures I'm about to share with you. BUt then I had this question: How do we know for sure God's will?

I thinking about James 5:14-15 If any of you is sick, he should call the elders to pray and anoint with oil and the prayer of faith will heal him. But unless we know it's God's will to heal everyone, we really can't pray a prayer of faith for that person can we? At best we will praying a prayer of hope.

Not that I have anything against hope, but it's not what James tells us will get that person healed. So, is it God's will to heal everyone? Jesus healed everyone that would let Him, and Jesus only did what He saw the Father do. Now, I'm well aware there are a lot of scriptures that seem to contradict that being God's will, but are we really looking at God's words or are we looking at what the seem to imply?

What is God's will on Healing? What is God's will on Salvation? What is God's will for each of us? What is God's will for each of them (the world)? How do we know we are believing and praying according to His will?

I'm still gonna keep searching--to see what else He shows me, cuz that was awesome.

My sheep know My voice. (John 10) And another they will not follow.


Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, (not if He will speak, but if we will listen and receive)
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


His heart is that all men will be saved, (the ultimate healing), yet, that will not happen (according to scripture). "...and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" (Mat_7:13 )

Axehead

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have been a Christian for a long time .... and still sometimes wonder what "God's will" is

For most decisions it is obvious what God would approve of , but I am talking about when we are unsure , and seek His direction.

Healing is an example. I want to pray for healing for many people , but it is hit and miss .... mostly miss.

All I can do is hope the prayer will be answered , just like you said Rand.

I feel that I have lots of faith , but when it comes to having healing faith like James 5 mentions , my faith is insufficient

I wish I knew the solution

 

[marksman]

I would like to suggest that the faith movement and "name it and claim it" people have somewhat distorted the real meaning and purpose of faith.

[font=trebuchet ms']It seems to me that the emphasis is on having faith in faith. The problem with that is everything stands and falls on the basis of how much faith we have in our faith. The end result is that results become the focus of everything and if we don't get them, there must be something wrong with my faith or my faith in my faith. [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']As far as I can see, the only faith that works is faith in what God says. Either in his written or spoken word. Every time we do something based on what God says shows him that we believe what he says.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']I do not do anything that requires the supernatural unless God says....[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']If I respond to what God says, then the result is up to him and it is more likely to produce the results that he wants. Note, he wants, not what we want. [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']If the "rheema" word of God is to call for the Elders of the church, then do it. The "rheema" word is the written word that God speaks to you directly. [/font]

 

[Xian Pugilist]

I think God spoke to me the other day, and it was radical. Something I've never thought of before. It bothered me at first, but then, WOW! It's a revelation. Something that He revealed to me while I was thinking about the scriptures I'm about to share with you. BUt then I had this question: How do we know for sure God's will?

I thinking about James 5:14-15 If any of you is sick, he should call the elders to pray and anoint with oil and the prayer of faith will heal him. But unless we know it's God's will to heal everyone, we really can't pray a prayer of faith for that person can we? At best we will praying a prayer of hope.

Not that I have anything against hope, but it's not what James tells us will get that person healed. So, is it God's will to heal everyone? Jesus healed everyone that would let Him, and Jesus only did what He saw the Father do. Now, I'm well aware there are a lot of scriptures that seem to contradict that being God's will, but are we really looking at God's words or are we looking at what the seem to imply?

What is God's will on Healing? What is God's will on Salvation? What is God's will for each of us? What is God's will for each of them (the world)? How do we know we are believing and praying according to His will?

I'm still gonna keep searching--to see what else He shows me, cuz that was awesome.

I sit here with more than one fatal condition. WHEN it's fatal I don't know. Been close but not yet on any of them.

I've also flatlined 3x in my life, that was from sleeping and driving. Drinking and driving you gotta chance, but sleeping and driving, not so much.

I woke up in a coma of 5 days and two days of a ..... coma where I was speaking and talking, there is a word not sure anymore what that's called.

healing is very appealing to me.

But, I think Christ's purpose for healing, and the APostles after that were for a purpose. A purpose fulfilled now so not necessary.

Who would have listened to moses without the magic stick show? Who would listen to the prophets without prophecy? Who would listen to the Christ, son of God without miracles. Remember, if you don't believe in me, at least believe in my miracles???? I'm thinkin' Jesus condoned the thoughts I have here...

The Church is established. The messiah has come. I think we now live the message, not establish it. So I don't think you got miracles.

I think you dang sure have God's Providence which is his influence, vs miracles.

Hear here!

Faith is more akin to TRUST than blind believing/hoping in our faith.

If you have faith in something God didn't promise, I dunno that you are gonna force His hand. Know whatta mean?

I would like to suggest that the faith movement and "name it and claim it" people have somewhat distorted the real meaning and purpose of faith.

[font=trebuchet ms']It seems to me that the emphasis is on having faith in faith. The problem with that is everything stands and falls on the basis of how much faith we have in our faith. The end result is that results become the focus of everything and if we don't get them, there must be something wrong with my faith or my faith in my faith. [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']As far as I can see, the only faith that works is faith in what God says. Either in his written or spoken word. Every time we do something based on what God says shows him that we believe what he says.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']I do not do anything that requires the supernatural unless God says....[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']If I respond to what God says, then the result is up to him and it is more likely to produce the results that he wants. Note, he wants, not what we want. [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms']If the "rheema" word of God is to call for the Elders of the church, then do it. The "rheema" word is the written word that God speaks to you directly. [/font]

 

[rand]

In Mathew Chpter 8 (i think) Jesus did tell us to heal the sick, rais the dead cast out demons and all that stuff. It's what He did, and I believe it's the authority He gave to us. If we want to be more Christ like, shouldn't we be doing what He did? He also said in Mark when asked about the fig tree He cursed, He said Have Faith in God. He didn't say you can't do this only us in the God Head can do this. No, He told them exactly how they too can command mountains to move. It doesn't take much faith, but there can be no doubt. I believe instead of speaking to mountains, we can speak to cancer, to broken limbs, to rashes, and so forth.

He said all power in Heaven and earth were given to Him, so go..... He said this a man, not as God. I know He is God, but what He said He said as a man, otherwise who Gave it to Him?

This was not my point, however. My point is that praying for God to heal someone if it be His will, is not a prayer of faith. It's a prayer of Hope. How can you pray a prayer of faith in Healing, unless you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it's God will for them to be healed? If in deed He has commanded us to heal the sick and raise the dead, why should we expect Him to do it when we ask Him to?

He is like a compasionate Father (don't remember the verse). Which one of you fathers would not 'will' for your child to be healed? Do you think He loves your child less than you do?

Pslams 103;3 says that He forgives all our sins, and heals all of our diseases. But we see all around us, even in scriptures, where people are sick and not healed so we rationalize that it must not be God's will. In my opinion, that's not walking by faith, that's walking by sight.

Faith won't heal you. Only Jesus can Heal you. And 2000 years ago, He has done everything He needed to do for everyone of us to walk in perfect health.

One of the most profound things I've ever heard a preacher say, is that if the Holy Spirit all of the sudden left earth, about 98 percent of all church activities would cary on like normal. We don't rely on Him like they did back then. How many Church activities or functions are totally dependant on the Holy Spirit? Where they wouldn't work at all and would be a total failure if He didn't show up?

Jesus taught us to pray that His domain should come to earth, and that His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. If sickness is not in Heaven, then it can't be in His will and we should pray it away. He put us in charge of this planet and gave us authority of the powers of sin, and sickness is a power of sin. That's why Satan doesn't want us know about this power we have been intrusted with. This truly is the narrow gate that so few people (even Christians) find that leads to life (NOTE: not eternal life; just life).

Mary changed Jesus' (God's) mind when she believed, expected and acted on her beliefs when she had Him turn the water into wine. Moses got God to repent about killing all the Jews and starting over with him (moses). Abraham got God to spare the city if he could find 10 righteous--even though he couldn't find them, God was willing to spare the cities for Abraham's sake.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Rand, the "us" in matthew 8...... why do you think it is us? Jesus was addressing the disciples. They had the job when He ascended of establishing the Church. Part of being a messenger of God is an ability to prove it.

Christ might have meant that for them for that time......

 

[joshhuntnm]

I love this story John MacArthur tells about God's will


I had a friend come to me and say, “John, I don’t know where the Lord wants me to serve.” I said to him, “Marty, if you had your choice of any service in the world, what would you want?”
He said, “Oh, I have such a burden for my people Israel. I speak French fluently, and Paris is just loaded with Jewish people who don’t know Jesus. I personally would like to go to Paris as a missionary to the Jews.” I checked him on the five spiritual principles and said, “Marty, have you done all these things?” He replied, “Yes, I honestly believe that I am committed to Christ in these areas.”
I said, “Marty, good-bye, have a nice trip.”

John MacArthur Jr.. Found: God’s Will (Find the Direction and Purpose God Wants for Your Life) (Kindle Locations 359-363). Kindle Edition.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

And, to play devil's advocate, following that thinking has created 8.543 billion protestant churches all pointed in a different direction. Its what happens when we forsake how the Apostles said we are supposed to do it...

 

[rand]

Hi Xian,

The last couple of verses in Mathew Jesus told them to teach 'us' everything that He had shown them. THat's why I think it's for us, too. Why do you think it's not for us? Becaus you don't see it? I see it. Not every day and certainly not everytime I pray for someone, but I have prayed for pinched nervs to heal, I've prayed for a lump in a woman's breast, I've prayed for cancer in a woman, I've prayed for a pain in a guy's foot, and many others. All of these were healed--most of them instantly. I just comanded that mountain to be gone and it went--just like Jeus said it would do.

Not everyone i prayed for was healed, not even most of them were healed. But if I didn't take Jesus at His word, I never would have prayed for any of them the way He told 'us' to (to move a mountain), and none of them would have been heald.

Now, I know it's true--healing is part of God's will for all of us, But I had to change my theology to match the word.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Hi Xian,

The last couple of verses in Mathew Jesus told them to teach 'us' everything that He had shown them. THat's why I think it's for us, too. Why do you think it's not for us? Becaus you don't see it? I see it. Not every day and certainly not everytime I pray for someone, but I have prayed for pinched nervs to heal, I've prayed for a lump in a woman's breast, I've prayed for cancer in a woman, I've prayed for a pain in a guy's foot, and many others. All of these were healed--most of them instantly. I just comanded that mountain to be gone and it went--just like Jeus said it would do.

Not everyone i prayed for was healed, not even most of them were healed. But if I didn't take Jesus at His word, I never would have prayed for any of them the way He told 'us' to (to move a mountain), and none of them would have been heald.

Now, I know it's true--healing is part of God's will for all of us, But I had to change my theology to match the word.

Rand, often when it says US, or I tell you.... it's something for the person he was addressing and not everyone. You don't think Christ gave every member the same authority as the Apostles do you? Did the regular disciples have as much as the Apostles?

Paul describes authority in the Church over others with talents in the Church. So, no I don't think everything is applied to us.


[sup]11 [/sup]Now while they were on their way, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all that had happened. [sup]12 [/sup]And when they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, [sup]13 [/sup]and said, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came by night and stole Him away while we were asleep.’ [sup]14 [/sup]And if this should come to the governor’s ears, we will win him over and [sup][d][/sup]keep you out of trouble.” [sup]15 [/sup]And they took the money and did as they had been instructed; and this story was widely spread among the Jews, and is to this day.
The Great Commission

[sup]16 [/sup]But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. [sup]17 [/sup]When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. [sup]18 [/sup]And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [sup]19 [/sup][sup][e][/sup]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, [sup]20 [/sup]teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [sup][f][/sup]always, even to the end of the age. Please explain, that's the NASB version.

 

[rand]

'teaching them to observe all that I commanded you' okay, now read Mark 11:23 i think where He tells them how the cursing of the tree worked and then what He said about speaking to the mountain without doubt. This is one of the many things He told them to teach us. This can not be countered with a particular verse or passage, it only can be explained away with a theology. One would have to question such a theology.

Also, He said that He is with them always. Well, He's with me always, too. Is this the only part of what He told them in the last few verses that was meant for 'us' today? Is that what you think? Are we also not to go and make disciples of all the nations? Are we not to Baptize them? Are they (the disciples) to teach us to observe everything He commanded them except moving a mountain, healing the sick, rasing the dead? Or is it that whole sentence verse 19 and 20 for us today except the 'observe all that I command you' part? Maybe Jesus made a mistake and He didn't mean to put that part in there?

God said He would pour out His spirit on us in the last days, it's obvious He's doing it. It's happening all over the world. Even Muslims are coming to Christ all over the world because of these miracles dispite the persecution they will face.

This is the narrow gate that so few people (even Christians) find, that leads to life.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Rand, to be honest, I don't think I should share what I think on this one. We don't agree, that's ok... but to get you to understand why, might wreck havoc on what you are working on there. I don't care to do that on this topic? I don't think its necessary.....

 

[rand]

Also, He said He came to destroy the works of the devil. Is sickness, disease not works of the Devil? Also, Paul told us that we are no longer under the curse of the law. Look at Duet chapter 28 at the blessings and curses of the law. Sickness is in there under the curses.

There are so many examples, but that's all I can think of for now.

fair enough. We can call a truce. Just know this: He is so much better than we think He is, and He has so much more blessings instore for us than we can imagine. Oh, to know how deep, wide is His love.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

I think u will find in context, the works of the boogey man are the temptations given us to make us sin. You might find gal 5:16 somewhat of a parallel verse.

I have been where you are in a discovery mode. I think its best for me to not give thoughts to influence you, and just to remind you that you have to look at the meanings of the verses from all possible meanings else if u take a hike up a bunny trail u won't notice.....

There is no truce to call. I don't have a beef with where you are barking.... I really just think its best to not influence your thinking at all as you walk this path....

 

[veteran]

Also, He said He came to destroy the works of the devil. Is sickness, disease not works of the Devil? Also, Paul told us that we are no longer under the curse of the law. Look at Duet chapter 28 at the blessings and curses of the law. Sickness is in there under the curses.

There are so many examples, but that's all I can think of for now.

fair enough. We can call a truce. Just know this: He is so much better than we think He is, and He has so much more blessings instore for us than we can imagine. Oh, to know how deep, wide is His love.

Hebrews 2:14 states Christ came to defeat "death" and the "devil". That defeat is already in effect spiritually for those who stand in Christ Jesus today. But for the flesh, that's another matter, because a lot of the works of the flesh are from our own mis-doings, and mostly because of allowing room for sin.


1 Cor 10:11-14
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
(KJV)

 

[rand]

That's a lot of Bible verses, you guys, but none of it says it's not His will for all of us to be perfectly healthy. None of them tells us that 'we are not just like Him in this world, and none of them say that we (today) are not to heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out deomons. Also, none of these verses given say He has not destroyed all the works of the devil, or that the Father is not willing to Heal all that believe He can and will. Further, there is no verse or no example of verses in the NT where anyone prayed asking God to heal someone--they healed in Jesus name by commanding. Not commanding Jesus or God, but commanding the sickness, just like they were taught to command the mountain to move.

He healed all the sick and all who were opressed of the devil, and He can only do what He saw the Father do and say what He heared the Father say. Was there anyone who did believe He could and would, that Jesus did not heal? No. Because it is the Father's will that all be healed. There is no verse that says otherwise, only theology. The Sicknesses that He heals are not from God, like I was once taught. They can't be, otherwise that would be a house divided against itself.

I know what it's like to hear this teaching for the first time. It's really disturbing in your flesh and in your spirit. You want to believe, but it goes against everything you know to be true. When I was there, I told God that if this is true, you have to show me. You have to prove it to me, like doubting Tom. And He did. We just have to open ourself up to it and not block the Holy Spirit when He tries to show us things. He will show us and if we seek Him with all our hearts. The bigest obstical to finding the truth is to think you've already got it.

 

[7angels]

rand from what i have read of your posts tell me it is rhema that God spoke to you. i do not know if you know what rhema and logos are but they are important in understanding what the word of God teaches. rhema and logos are 2 different words used to explain the word 'WORD' in the bible. as you already know faith come by hearing the word(rhema) and hearing by the word(rhema) of God. rhema means that what you hear, read, and ect came directly from God. and when this happens there is a 'i know that i know' feeling that comes upon you that helps keeps you from doubting and falling into unbelief. Logos is when someone tells you about God but it did not come directly from God himself. for example the bible is logos because man printed what God told someone else to write. another example is prophesy, when someone else tells you or someone else what God has told them for you is all logos. until God speaks to you about what was prophesied or brings scripture for alive for you then all that you have received is logos.

it would do you good to study scripture and see the context that rhema and logos is used.

healing is for today. i can do it myself but i still have to keep growing to achieve a 100% recovery rate for those that want healing. i am not sure why some get healed and others don't but i do have an idea why it does not work on everyone. if you wish to know i will message you because i do not wish to start any replies of unbelief and sarcastic remarks that come with it. we get enough of those remarks just concerning whether healing is for today let alone going more in depth without a hunger for more.

rand if you or anyone else would like to feel God's power it can be done pretty easy. have you ever felt the power of God? i am talking about the physical presence of God which shows up in ways that we can sense with our 5 physical senses of smell, touch, see, hear, and taste. it is a really awesome feeling. as you grow in your relationship with the Lord you will begin to be able to feel God's presence at any time of day. when you are able to sense God's presence it is easy for you to help others feel his presence also. i can show you if you wish.

btw once you realize that you have had a rhema about healing from God then i will caution you that you will be put to the test and persecuted about what you believe. i warn you now to not doubt what you believe. what you have received is the real thing. and we as christians do not walk by sight but by things unseen.

God bless

 

[rand]

Thank You 7,

in the begining, what I received from God was logos. I hear others speak about it. They seemed to really love the Lord and they were truly excited aobut Him. I wanted that. They didn't seem fake like I was surrounded with in my church. I told God that I wanted to love Him like that, because I didn't love Him like that. I know I should, but I didn't. From where I was coming from, this was a bold statement. But I wanted to be honest with Him no matter what He did to me. I was so surprized when He didn't punish me, but He gave me a taste of grace. I was Hooked. I couldn't get enough--that was about 4 years ago, I'm still so in love with Him.

I have Heard Him, felt Him and felt His power. I've seem miracles. As awesome as all those were, I don't need them to know He loves me. I don't need them to know How valuable I am to Him. For the first time in almost 40 years of being a Christian, I know How I am in Christ. I know more truths about Him because He has revealed Himself to me in many different ways, but mostly when I meditate on Scripture. All these revealations He's given me, all of them--everyone, lines up perfectly with scripture. They don't always line up with my previous theology, but they do line up with His word.

I have a loving close relationship with Him now, that I didn't have for the almost 40 previous years. I always thought He loved me, but nerver really expected much out of me. I always tried to counter my bad acts with good ones. Now, I know I have absolutely no sin on my account, because it all goes on Jesus. That alone took all the presure off to serve Him and it made it easier to just be loved by Him. Knowing that He loves me the way He does, makes me love Him. Because He first loved me so much.

So to answer your question, I did get much of what I now know did come in the form of logos, and now I get it directly from the Father. He has hidden so much in His word. Not Hidden from us, but for us. He knows How we love the hunt, the adventurous side we all have because He put it there. Yes, I know many people don't have that, but I think that is because something in their past has robbed them of that joy.

Anyway, I'm no longer on that shakey ground, I'm standing on the Rock. I know I still have so much more to learn, and I'm excited about it. But, my faith in what He has shown me is not shaken, I've been tried and tested. When I get attacted for by stance, I don't take it personally. I really don't. I feel sorry for the attacker because I know they are deceived, and I know God is still not mad at them. He loves them. But He does want them to have an abundant life while here on this earth in this physical body, but that grace can't come to them if there is no faith for it to come thru. God is so awesome. We have no idea how huge His awesomeness is. We just got to keep searching it out and getting excited about it the treasure hunt.

 

[Sabitarian]

Xian,
There are many natural cures for all ailments that have been around since the beginning of time. One of the best policies is to maintain your body acid-alkaline balance neutral or 7, as all diseases require an acid base to survive. Baking soda has been used to cure cancer for many years by an Italian doctor. I used it to cure my mother of her cancer. Litmus strips can be purchased at your pharmacy and used to keep track of your acid balance. Do not buy arm and hammer soda as it is reported to have aluminum in it, but red brand is the best and it can be purchased in your local health store. I hope that this has been helpful for your condition.
Rand,
Faith healing will not work on those who do not believe, but always works on real believers as Christ tells you in His scriptures. “Your Faith has made you well.”