There is only ONE sacrifice

[Disciple]

(Hebrews 6:4-6)
'For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves he Son of God fresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Hebrews 11:26-27)
'For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.'

 

[TexUs]

What do you say these mean?

I say the people talked about here are not Christians.
They are unbelievers who have tasted of the truth, they've had everything fully explained, they've seen everything possible to see regarding the gospel, and still don't come to an acceptance of the truth.
Hebrews is saying, what could possibly be left to show them? They've seen everything. They've tasted the truth. There's nothing else to be done for these people that would lead them into the truth, which they've seen.



To the latter I believe the adverb is saying those who make a habit of sinning, those who do it purposefully, willfully, deliberately. And again, I say these are not Christians.

 

[Disciple]

No scripture is of any private interpretation; it is written for us, who have come to the truth, if we sin willingly there is nomore remission of sins, as it is written.

It is speaking plainly and clearly to those that have beleived, received forgiveness and received the Holy Ghost.

 

[TexUs]

Yes, you can quote what it says but you have not said what it means and how it is applicable.

 

[belantos]

(Hebrews 6:4-6)
'For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves he Son of God fresh, and put him to an open shame.

These are people who convert to the Jesus faith and then turn their back to it. You cannot bring them back.

(Hebrews 11:26-27)
'For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.'

There was never a sacrifice for willful sin. Sacrifices were for sin committed in ignorance. If you sinned willfully you had to repent and return to God.

 

[TexUs]

These are people who convert to the Jesus faith and then turn their back to it. You cannot bring them back.

So then, Paul was a liar?

[font="Georgia][size="3"]In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee[/size][/font][font="Verdana][size="2"] [/size][/font][font="Georgia][size="3"]of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[/size][/font][font="Verdana][size="2"] [/size][/font][font="Georgia][size="3"]to the praise of his glory.[/size][/font]

Note, having tasted and shared a bit of the Holy Spirit is a bit different than being sealed with him as Christ the guaranteer, wouldn't you think?

[font="Georgia][size="3"]H[/size][/font]e who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Disciple]

The word is plain and clear, let the Holy Spirit explain it, God is to be feared.

 

[Cooter]

These are people who convert to the Jesus faith and then turn their back to it. You cannot bring them back.


There was never a sacrifice for willful sin. Sacrifices were for sin committed in ignorance. If you sinned willfully you had to repent and return to God.

Exactly - the great theme of Hebrews is that the New Covenant is a better covenant. Under the new covenant there is forgiveness for willful sin.

 

[rosh]

Exactly - the great theme of Hebrews is that the New Covenant is a better covenant. Under the new covenant there is forgiveness for willful sin.

Certainly there is forgiveness of willful sin under the new covenant.. But we are dealing here with humans havin wills and emotions and a pyschology ..

the very reason the verses are mentioned is that though we may be once saved, there is a danger of falling away.

Its all over the scriptures

After a willful sin, there needs to be genuine repentance. But if we continue to commit willful sin, there is a danger of the conscience become 'depraved' and a certain coldness may begin... leading to backsliding... many Christians are in this state. But God who is rich in mercy gives unlimited grace to restore us back. Many of us jump back and forth!

But if the matter has gone too far.. our conscience itself becomes dead and we feel unable to repent.

Just think about it... why does the scripture speak of verses like........

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" -- after we are sealed for salvation by pure grace, we need to WORK OUT with a God fearing life.

carry your cross daily... hold fast that you have, lest it be taken away..etc.

in the OT in Ez 18
"The soul that sins shall die." though the man was righteous once but does not WORK OUT good God fearing deeds, he is in danger of dying.

Also,
"Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." Exo 32:33
Though the name was once writen in the book of life, there are chances for the name to be blotted.

According to me, there are 2 kinds of 'saved' people.

1. those who are drawn heaven ward
2. those who jump heaven ward

the first category are drawn by the enuine love of Christ and sell out their heart for his love. they are no more alive, but Christ lives in them.

the second category, inorder to escape judgement, problems, curses, diseases and the fire of hell, choose to follow Jesus Christ. These people will no doubt enjoy every blessing God has kept for them, because they are obedient to the Word, they may have tasted, experienced and have knowledge... but is thier foundation sure? their love relation with God? there is a certain chance of falling away...

We need to check ourselves ... whether we are drawn to salvation because of the love of Christ or otherwise.

Though the first category falls sometimes ..cos the flesh is not yet redeemed, God will lift him up..

Prov 24:16 a just man falls seven times and riseth again

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless ...

comforting words... lets concentrate more on these than the fear of falling away!

 

[Cooter]

Certainly there is forgiveness of willful sin under the new covenant.. But we are dealing here with humans havin wills and emotions and a pyschology ..

the very reason the verses are mentioned is that though we may be once saved, there is a danger of falling away.

Its all over the scriptures

After a willful sin, there needs to be genuine repentance. But if we continue to commit willful sin, there is a danger of the conscience become 'depraved' and a certain coldness may begin... leading to backsliding... many Christians are in this state. But God who is rich in mercy gives unlimited grace to restore us back. Many of us jump back and forth!

But if the matter has gone too far.. our conscience itself becomes dead and we feel unable to repent.

Just think about it... why does the scripture speak of verses like........

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" -- after we are sealed for salvation by pure grace, we need to WORK OUT with a God fearing life.

carry your cross daily... hold fast that you have, lest it be taken away..etc.

in the OT in Ez 18
"The soul that sins shall die." though the man was righteous once but does not WORK OUT good God fearing deeds, he is in danger of dying.

Also,
"Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." Exo 32:33
Though the name was once writen in the book of life, there are chances for the name to be blotted.

According to me, there are 2 kinds of 'saved' people.

1. those who are drawn heaven ward
2. those who jump heaven ward

the first category are drawn by the enuine love of Christ and sell out their heart for his love. they are no more alive, but Christ lives in them.

the second category, inorder to escape judgement, problems, curses, diseases and the fire of hell, choose to follow Jesus Christ. These people will no doubt enjoy every blessing God has kept for them, because they are obedient to the Word, they may have tasted, experienced and have knowledge... but is thier foundation sure? their love relation with God? there is a certain chance of falling away...

We need to check ourselves ... whether we are drawn to salvation because of the love of Christ or otherwise.

Though the first category falls sometimes ..cos the flesh is not yet redeemed, God will lift him up..

Prov 24:16 a just man falls seven times and riseth again

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless ...

comforting words... lets concentrate more on these than the fear of falling away!

Well, It's rare to find anyone who understands Hebrews in the light of history.

Who was the book of Hebrews written to?
Who wrote it?
Why was it written?
When was it written?
What was the theme of the book?
What was the message of the book.

These are questions that we should always ask of any book of the Bible. If you don't answer these questions you are going to end up with a 21st century speculative viewpoint and not what the author intended.

Who was the book of Hebrews written to?

It was written to the Messianic or Hebrew Christians living in Rome.

Who wrote it?

Doesn't say, but it was probably the thoughts of Paul as recorded by Luke. That's why it doesn't exibit all the characteristics of Paul's style of writing.

Why was it written?

It was written to combat the ever increasing persecution of the Christians in Rome. Specifically the Messianic Christians.

When was it written?

There are two indicators of the timeline. Hebrews itself gives us a clue.

1. The book was written to Messianic Christians in Rome who were under extreme persecution. This period was brought about by the burning of Rome. 10 of 14 precincts of the city were destroyed by fire. A lot of people had lost their homes, businesses, and all of their possessions. It is well known that Nero had set the fire in order to clear an area for his ambitious building projects. There was an interval of about 9 months between the Fire, which happened in July of 64AD, until Nero started killing Christians in the spring of 65AD.
   
   It was in this interval that the book of Hebrews was written. Nero killed an estimated 5,000 in his purge of the Christians. This was the first general persecution by the government and they lived through this ordeal. During this 9 month period - Nero was ever fomenting hatred against the Christians and the persecution was ever increasing.
2. Hebrews Says “You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin.” This means that the book was written before the killings in the spring of 65AD. So that is the window - July 64AD to appx April 65AD.

What was the theme of the book?

The main point of the book is “The New Covenant is a better Covenant.”

What was the message of the book?

At this point in time it was only the Christians who were being persecuted. The Jews were not. As a result in order to escape persecution the Messianic Christians were returning back to Judiasm. The author is trying to persuade them not to do so and this is the meat of the book. He is reviewing the past of how the people of God had striven for the truth in history. He also explains - in a non offensive way - that they can't return to Judiasm.

Now with that in mind let's look at those verses again...

(Hebrews 6:4-6)
'For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves he Son of God fresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is what happens when you return back to Judaism.


(Hebrews 11:26-27)
'For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.'

Under the OT there was no sacrifice (animal) for willful sin. The man who was gathering sticks was stoned. To abandon Christianity and return back to the types and shadows of Judaism is sin in Gods eyes.

Heb 10:29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the Covenant by which he was sanctified and has insulted the Spirit of Grace.

Reverting from Christianity to Judaism again.

See how this fits the scenario I described above?

 

[rosh]

very well explained Cooter!

It is so important to relate scripture from the historical point of view 'also'. But unless we relate what we have understood from the historical point to our present day situation, the scriptures are but only a dead history book.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Tim 3:16

what you explained makes it so much clearer now.... when we relate it from a salvation point of view.

We who were blinded by the god of this world (having the viel on our eyes just like the Jews) were also given a clear revelation of the messiah. To us whom the seed of the Word was sown in our hearts springs up to grow and bear fruit, but is suddenly persecuted by the difficulties that follow a real Christian walk, just like the messianic christians were persecuted and tempted to go back to the wide and easy way of the world that leads to destruction.

Just as the messianic christians were tempted to go back to Judaism
We the believers of Christ are always tempted by the evil on to go back to the world.

again thanks for the historical input.

God bless

 

[Cooter]

very well explained Cooter!

It is so important to relate scripture from the historical point of view 'also'. But unless we relate what we have understood from the historical point to our present day situation, the scriptures are but only a dead history book.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Tim 3:16

what you explained makes it so much clearer now.... when we relate it from a salvation point of view.

We who were blinded by the god of this world (having the viel on our eyes just like the Jews) were also given a clear revelation of the messiah. To us whom the seed of the Word was sown in our hearts springs up to grow and bear fruit, but is suddenly persecuted by the difficulties that follow a real Christian walk, just like the messianic christians were persecuted and tempted to go back to the wide and easy way of the world that leads to destruction.

Just as the messianic christians were tempted to go back to Judaism
We the believers of Christ are always tempted by the evil on to go back to the world.

again thanks for the historical input.

God bless

Right - My thinking is that we must first understand the message as it was meant by the writer and how it was understood by those to whom it was written. And then we can determine what it means to us today. We are searching for spiritual principals mostly, so we can apply them to our time.

By the way I got most of this from Frank Viola's book "The Untold Story of the NT Church." Also helpful was David Stern's commentary "Jewish New Testament Commentary."

Larry

 

[rosh]

By the way I got most of this from Frank Viola's book "The Untold Story of the NT Church." Also helpful was David Stern's commentary "Jewish New Testament Commentary."

Larry

thats good... so far i've been relying only on the Holy Spirit.

God bless