...they follow the lamb wherever he goes...

[Pearl]

Yes, but virgins from what maam?

See post number 11

 

[quietthinker]

2 Corinthians 11:2 helps (I think) in asking who was Paul speaking to where he said “that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” Was he speaking in a sexual content?

I don't think he was ViJ.....incidentally, I'm glad you are back on the boards.

 

[quietthinker]

I get the question wasn’t to me but it is said so often “the ones who have not been defiled with women”

but considering “that I might present you a pure virgin in Christ” …pure in Christ is the the only way I can think of “not defiled”.

you asked virgins from what? just important as “pure among women” is “And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.”

1)first fruits to God and the Lamb (present you a pure virgin to Christ)
2)purchased
3)blameless

yes....keep going

 

[Nancy]

...they follow the lamb wherever he goes... Revelation 14:4
how would you understand this?....don't answer too quickly

The 144 thousand virgins/eunuchs'?...will be Jews and will bring into the fold unsaved Jews...? They are pure...and obviously faithful as they "follow the Lamb..."
?

 

[Nancy]

so its metaphor?....We can then look at the rest of the description as metaphor also I think. The question is, what is it a metaphor for or of?

The Bride of Christ, 'prepared' for her groom.

 

[Nancy]

I join in with threads only to have somebody make me feel stupid or out of my depth so I tend to try to stay away from the 'deep' stuff. Perhaps I need another cup of coffee. :)

me too Pat!
Although I'm willing to try now and again, even though I chance sticking foot in mouth or being WAY off topic!

 

[quietthinker]

The 144 thousand virgins/eunuchs'?...will be Jews and will bring into the fold unsaved Jews...? They are pure...and obviously faithful as they "follow the Lamb..."
?

why do you say they'll be Jews/ Eunuchs if its metaphor, Nancy?......and how do you understand 'pure'?

 

[quietthinker]

me too Pat!
Although I'm willing to try now and again, even though I chance sticking foot in mouth or being WAY off topic!

If our ideas are too sacrosanct to be questioned we have an issue. Questioning for the honest enquirer is a means of discovering new and serendipitous things.

In my own mind I am always right until I realise I am wrong....then I change my mind and I am right again ;)

 

[Bob Estey]

...they follow the lamb wherever he goes... Revelation 14:4
how would you understand this?....don't answer too quickly

Don't answer too quickly? I always answer quickly. I think it means to do whatever God tells us to do.

 

[amadeus]

2 Corinthians 11:2 helps (I think) in asking who was Paul speaking to where he said “that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” Was he speaking in a sexual content?

Is the "new man" about whom Paul writes, a physical man of flesh and red blood? I think not! The new man [includes members of both natural genders] is chaste and pure... given now opportunity become a part of that a virginal Bride for the Bridegroom.

Virgin... but also having their lamps ready: filled with oil!

"They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
"And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps." Matt 25:3-7

"That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:27

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:21-23

 

[Robert Gwin]

I get the question wasn’t to me but it is said so often “the ones who have not been defiled with women”

but considering “that I might present you a pure virgin in Christ” …pure in Christ is the the only way I can think of “not defiled”.

you asked virgins from what? just important as “pure among women” is “And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.”

1)first fruits to God and the Lamb (present you a pure virgin to Christ)
2)purchased
3)blameless

Thanks for the comment Vicky, looking at the context in whole, and considering that Peter was married, we can discern what it is referring to. The entire previous chapter was about the beast, which it identifies as world powers, and how some would worship it, and then it contrasts beginning in chap 13 about those virgins, the 144k who follow the lamb, and then goes further to speak about babylon the great, who is later identified as committing fornication with the kings of the earth, so these virgins are virgins in the fact that they have not committed fornication with them. Does this make sense maam?

 

[Robert Gwin]

See post number 11

See if this makes sense to you Pearl, it is my reply to Vicky: looking at the context in whole, and considering that Peter was married, we can discern what it is referring to. The entire previous chapter was about the beast, which it identifies as world powers, and how some would worship it, and then it contrasts beginning in chap 13 about those virgins, the 144k who follow the lamb, and then goes further to speak about babylon the great, who is later identified as committing fornication with the kings of the earth, so these virgins are virgins in the fact that they have not committed fornication with them.

 

[Pearl]

See if this makes sense to you Pearl, it is my reply to Vicky: looking at the context in whole, and considering that Peter was married, we can discern what it is referring to. The entire previous chapter was about the beast, which it identifies as world powers, and how some would worship it, and then it contrasts beginning in chap 13 about those virgins, the 144k who follow the lamb, and then goes further to speak about babylon the great, who is later identified as committing fornication with the kings of the earth, so these virgins are virgins in the fact that they have not committed fornication with them.

Thank you Robert but to be honest I'm not interested.

 

[Nancy]

why do you say they'll be Jews/ Eunuchs if its metaphor, Nancy?......and how do you understand 'pure'?

Pure to me simply means they kept their virginity through their lives...for the Kingdom of God:

Matthew 19:12
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

"4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand....." And on and on....

Not so sure it IS metaphor, or if maybe SOME of it is...just seems the verses are clear. I do not at all believe it will the the 144 K ONLY who enter the Kingdom as that would leave out ALL women and children.
:) And pretty sure they are NOT JW's either.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

contrasts beginning in chap 13 about those virgins, the 144k who follow the lamb, and then goes further to speak about babylon the great, who is later identified as committing fornication with the kings of the earth, so these virgins are virgins in the fact that they have not committed fornication with them.

you asked “Does this make sense maam?“
I think so…if I understood correctly then you don’t think it has anything to do with sexual content? but instead it is “committing fornication with the kings of the earth” in following them into fornication against the body which is the opposite of “pure” and “undefiled” and following the Lamb of God out from fornication against the body.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is the "new man" about whom Paul writes, a physical man of flesh and red blood? I think not! The new man [includes members of both natural genders] is chaste and pure... given now opportunity become a part of that a virginal Bride for the Bridegroom.

Virgin... but also having their lamps ready: filled with oil!

"They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
"And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps." Matt 25:3-7

"That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:27

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:21-23

The verse of the day this morning.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[amadeus]

The verse of the day this morning.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Amen, sister, amen!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yes....keep going

oddly 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 and 1 Corinthians 7:1-40 goes in-depth concerning virgins. If it is only speaking of women as virgins. Then why does Paul bring up his long debated gift “It is good that they abide even as I.”
“but this I say, brothers, the time is short. It remains, that both they that have wives be as though they had none.”

The whole of those verses touch 1 Corinthians 6:20 “you are bought with a price.” 1 Corinthians 7:23 You are bought with a price be not you the servants of men.
^ the above seems to check off #2 “purchased” , and other places Paul mentions “as first fruits” …so why is it so often taught the following is yet future and (literal)virgin men purchased, as first fruits, blameless??

1)first fruits to God and the Lamb (present you a pure virgin to Christ)
2)purchased
3)blameless

 

[quietthinker]

Not so sure it IS metaphor, or if maybe SOME of it is...just seems the verses are clear. I do not at all believe it will the the 144 K ONLY who enter the Kingdom as that would leave out ALL women and children.

so here we have what I see as a common dilemma.....how we understand. You are not sure but it seems the verses are clear you say.
I wonder if the dilemma is compounded by how we see....particularly if we acknowledge the verses are clear?.....so we mix metaphor and literal, flipping backwards and forwards an attempt to fit what is written into the paradigm we have.

 

[Robert Gwin]

you asked “Does this make sense maam?“
I think so…if I understood correctly then you don’t think it has anything to do with sexual content? but instead it is “committing fornication with the kings of the earth” in following them into fornication against the body which is the opposite of “pure” and “undefiled” and following the Lamb of God out from fornication against the body.

Yes maam, think of particular faiths who are "in bed" with the political entities of this world, some even have members run for office, and/or lobby politicians. Jesus said we are no part of the world, that his followers seek God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. Remember satan has the governments in his hands and authority Mat 4:8,9; Rev 16:14 no Christian wants to be intimate with them. Keep in mind however we would never make a stand against them Rom 13:2