Thief on the cross gospel?

[treeoflife]

(Jon-Marc;40393)
Being forgiven is so simple that many stumble over its simplicity. Is Jesus a liar? He told the man "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise." There was no "heaven" for saints in God to go to at that time. There was Paradise and hell--separated by whatever kept them apart. Jesus went to Paradise, and when He left there he took the saints with him. Their resurrection is recorded in the scriptures.
Agreed. Whether the theif temporarily went to a holding place, pending Jesus' 2nd coming when we are all taken to heaven or whether he went there directly, the theif was saved.I do not frustrate the gospel of grace.

 

[treeoflife]

Philippians 3:8-9 [KJV]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faithPhilippians 3:8-9 [NLT]Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.

 

[setfree]

(Nyoka;44172)
I agree kriss. If there wasn't some way to be saved before Jesus came then EVERYONE who died before Jesus paid the price would have been automatically condemned. There could not have been any righteous people during this period. No-one from the time of Adam until Jesus death could have been called righteous. If that were true then God's plan would have been stopped in it's tracks and Satan would have won by default. That is why there had to be a substitute covering until He died. It was also a foreshadowing pointing to Jesus.IMHO God had to have somewhere for the righteous dead to go before the death and resurrection of Jesus. It makes sense that God may have had a place in Sheol for them. It would not have been hard for Him to have done this.
In Heb. 12:5-31 talks about how faith was counted unto them for righteousness. So everyone that died before Jesus died was saved the same way we are today...by faith. They looked toward the cross and we look back. Christ complete work on the cross is what saves us....our faith in what he did. So the thief look forward to Christ complete work on the cross.

 

[Nyoka]

I agree setfree. Those in the old testament looked forward to the Messiah to come. Because they believed that He would come and save them then they were imputed righteousness by God. If God had not imputed righteousness to them then no one could be saved before Christ came.

 

[jtartar]

(TallMan;40224)
Was the one that said "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom" saved?I ask because I've met many who say they are saved because of these few verses.
Tallman, When the evildoer asked Jesus to remember him when he got into his kingdom, remember what Jesus said to him: I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise, Luke 23:43. Now, this evildoer was not granted to be part of the Christian Congregation at that time. People of the nations were not accepted into the Congregation until the year 36CE, when Cornelius became the first uncircumcised gentile admitted into the Christian Congregation, Acts 10:34,35,14-18, 11:17,18. What Jesus told the evildoer was that he would be resurrected as one of the UNRIGHTEOUS ones mentioned at Acts 24:15. At the time of his death he was not in a saved condition, but he would be resurrected during the thousand year judgement day, and would have an opportunity to gain salvation, if he made progress toward obeying God completely, John 5:28,29, Rev 20:6,12,13. Rev 20:5, says that the rest of the dead, which would include the evildoer, did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This means they did not come to EVERLASTING LIFE until the end of the thousand year judgement day, because the ones resurrected back to earth must undergo a final test at the end of the thousand year judgement day, Rev 20:3,7-9. The Bible tells us that some will COME OUT of the Great Tribulation, meaning they would live through the Great Tribulation. These also will not actually come to EVERLASTING LIFE until the end of the Thousand Year Judgement Day, Rev 7:9,14. If these make progress toward perfection, they will NEVER have to die. Jesus died for all who have faith in his Ransom Sacrifice, 2Cor 5:14, 15, Heb 2:9 The ones that will be resurrected as Kings and Priests will be resurrected as immortal spirit creatures, which cannot die, Rev 2:11, 20:4-6, 1Cor 15:53,54.

 

[treeoflife]

(jtartar;50943)
What Jesus told the evildoer was that he would be resurrected as one of the UNRIGHTEOUS ones mentioned at Acts 24:15. At the time of his death he was not in a saved condition, but he would be resurrected during the thousand year judgement day, and would have an opportunity to gain salvation, if he made progress toward obeying God completely
Wow, lol. obey God completely? Do tell... how does one obey God completely, friend?That is the most fantastic version of that I have ever heard. I pray to God that nobody listens to you. It saddens me that you fail to comprehend the Gospel of grace. He was saved, end of story, and I will be happy to call him brother, even now, as well as in Heaven should I be given the oppertunity when I am there with him.

John 5:21-24For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

Whoever believes, Jesus says, WILL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION, period. They have passed from death to life. No second chance required. Whoever believes will NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION. In your perversion of a version, however, the theif gets a second chance when he is resurrected with the "unrighteous." And, as you demonstrated, thereby a second chance means that he might come into condemnation, if, as you say, the thief were to not "obey God completely" upon that second chance. Therefore making your version completely false, because Jesus said that those who believe will NOT COME INTO CONDMENATION. Period, the end.

 

[treeoflife]

(TallMan;40247)
Most importantly, the New Covenant didn't begin until the Spirit was given at Pentecost, making people born again / sons of God, temples of the Holy Spirit. People are being taught to reject the need for water & Spirit baptisms because of what Jesus says to a thief in Luke - sounds like a thief's gospel to me!
The theif on the cross is an excellent example, proving that we don't need a water baptism to be saved (or any work). I wouldn't reject water bapstism... unless it is being presented as some falsly say it is necessary for salvation (water baptism is in NO WAY necessary for salvation). I thank God GREATLY for the example of the theif on the cross. We are saved by grace through faith. Not works, lest any man boast.The only "theif's Gospel" is any "gospel" that tries to add individual, personal works to merit salvation... and thereby steal from Jesus' finished work on the cross--which of course really is no Gospel at all.

 

[Letsgofishing]

The catholic church has never said you needed a water baptism is needed for salvation, you think we would contain Gods salvation to a tub of water. I am a strong believer in baptism, but saying that only people who are baptized are saved is limiting God and his sacrifice.

 

[jtartar]

(TallMan;40224)
Was the one that said "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom" saved?I ask because I've met many who say they are saved because of these few verses.
Tallman, Jesus said to the evildoer; Truely, I tell you today, You will be with me in paradise, Luke 23:43. Notice the coma is AFTER the word today. Most Bibles put the coma before the word today. This is misleading, because even Jesus was not in heaven until forty days later. Because this evildoer was not part of the Little Flock that Jesus spoke about, he would not take part in the FIRST RESURRECTION, the ones who are to be Kings and Priests in heaven, Rev 20:4-6. The evildoer that Jesus promise paradise is going to be part of the great resurrection mentioned by Jesus at John 5:28,29. This resurrection is also mentioned by Paul at Acts 24:15. There is a great difference between the First resurrection and the general resurrection. The ones resurrected first are resurrected IMMORTAL, to be NEW CREATIONS, SPIRITS, in heaven, 1Cor 15:53,54, 2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15. These are ANOINTED by God, and have been ADOPTED as SONS of God, 2Cor 1:21,22, 1John 2:20,26,27, Rom 8:14-17,23, Eph 1:5. They are to be JOINT HEIRS with Jesus, as sons of God, in the HOUSEHOLD of God, Eph 2:19, 1Tim 3:15. These are BORN AGAIN as SPIRIT CREATURES, not from flesh, but from God, John 1:12,13, 3:5-8, 1Cor 15:50. The ones having a part in the First Resurrection cannot die again, they are IMMORTAL. Notice the difference between them and the great resurrection, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15. These will be brought back in the Judgement day of one thousand years, Rev 20:6. According to John 5:29 these can die again, if they do not pass the test of the Judgement Day. All who do not pass this pest will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the SECOND DEATH.

 

[elmo]

Jesus came into the world not just for the righteous but that sinners should come to repentance and recieve God too...as their lord and saviorJesus furthered this promise when he said "ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened...God would have contridicted these promises if he denied the man on the cross with him the right to enter heaven...which he obviously did not.Furthermore, Jesus knew the man's heart because he is "all knowing" and that is enough for me even without knowing the bible because I take Jesus simply as "his word is truth, and he is perfect, meaning any judgements made by him are always correct"