Thinking Errors

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aspen

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1. Good and Evil are equal forces
2. Our Free Will is a result of the Fall
3. Knowledge of correct doctrine saves.
4. Thoughts or feelings can damn you
5. Being convinced of the truth and being converted mean the same thing
6. Christians can argue people into the Kingdom
7, Witnessing doctrine is the same thing as love,
8. Christians cannot be arrogant
9. The gospel must be offensive to the world or it is too watered down
10. Every time a Christian is criticized it is a direct result of the gospel, rather than their behavior
11. The Bible must be literally true or it is not valuable.
12. The most important concept the Bible has to offer is literal truth
13. The OT is a series of stories about good people doing good things, who should be emulated, rather than a cautionary tale for humanity.
14. Our behavior can change the wrath of God outlined in the book of Revelation and Daniel.
15. A literal interpretation of the Creation story is necessary in order to believe in a literal translation of the Bible, which is necessary to believe in a literal understanding of Christ and our possible Redemption.
16. People who reject the message of Christianity are our enemies.
17. The Devil is omnipresent
18 God desires us to be destroyed rather than saved.
19. God hates His enemies, but calls us to love our enemies.
20. Jesus only died for the elect.
21, Acknowledging a person's freedom to sin is the same as condoning it
22. The ends justify the means
23. We were kicked out of Eden for eating the fruit
24. God can break His own rules
25. Jesus was a conservative (I am not using this term in a political way)

Redundancies / oxymorons

1. Free gift
2. assurance of faith
 

aspen

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here is another thinking error - some sins are worse than others....
 

Foreigner

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here is another thinking error - some sins are worse than others....


-- I have had this conversation with other Christians before. Those that criticize the practice of homosexuality are sometimes surprised to find that God is just as displeased with adultery, divorce, shoplifting, cheating on your taxes, rumor mongoring, etc. etc. etc.
 

aspen

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-- I have had this conversation with other Christians before. Those that criticize the practice of homosexuality are sometimes surprised to find that God is just as displeased with adultery, divorce, shoplifting, cheating on your taxes, rumor mongoring, etc. etc. etc.


So true. Unfortunately, some Christians believe that spreading the Good News means singling out homosexuality.

Peace

 

Foreigner

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So true. Unfortunately, some Christians believe that spreading the Good News means singling out homosexuality.

Peace


-- I think that is more because adulterers, shot lifters, tax cheats, etc. are not seeking special status from the government, demanding that their practices be taught and sanctioned in schools, or demanding hate crime legislation to punish anyone who speaks out against their practices.


Just a thought.....
 

Templar81

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I have a heard time with this one! How can murder and shoplifting be the same in God's eys, I can't imagine God seeing them as being the same I jsut can't it doesn't make snse.

Catholics believe there are two different types of sin; mortal and venial.

Mortal sins damage your relationship with God and if unconfessed and absolved can get you sent to hell, they include murder, adultary, rape, theft, bearing false witness etc.

Venial sins are things that we do day in day otu hardly reaising because sin is so easy to accumulate. These sins can distance us a little from God but are not adanger to our souls. They are usually things peopel can't help like negative thought nd emotions, sins that a hermit in a cave could commit, such is man's sin nature.
 

aspen

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I have a heard time with this one! How can murder and shoplifting be the same in God's eys, I can't imagine God seeing them as being the same I jsut can't it doesn't make snse.

Catholics believe there are two different types of sin; mortal and venial.

Mortal sins damage your relationship with God and if unconfessed and absolved can get you sent to hell, they include murder, adultary, rape, theft, bearing false witness etc.

Venial sins are things that we do day in day otu hardly reaising because sin is so easy to accumulate. These sins can distance us a little from God but are not adanger to our souls. They are usually things peopel can't help like negative thought nd emotions, sins that a hermit in a cave could commit, such is man's sin nature.

I think it is more accurate to say that the Catholic Church teaches that some sins lead to different consequences - sin is sin. Mortal sins lead to a rupture in relationships with people and God - venial sins impede the sanctification work God is carrying out in our hearts, but do not end relationships.

Peace
 

religusnut

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I think it is more accurate to say that the Catholic Church teaches that some sins lead to different consequences - sin is sin. Mortal sins lead to a rupture in relationships with people and God - venial sins impede the sanctification work God is carrying out in our hearts, but do not end relationships.

Peace

Sin is punished period. The fact is thought that people start to slip downward on a slippery slope of sin and as they allow more and more perversion. Homosexuality is at the bottom of that perversion.

A Church that would have a pastor that is openly in adultery needs to be examined as messed up. A Church that would allow an open homosexual as pastor is just as bad if not worse.
 

MaxTO

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here is another thinking error - some sins are worse than others....

Some sins are worse then others , remember God does not forgive blasphemy of the Holy Spirit


In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,

"Therefore I say to you, every sin andblasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" .

 

veteran

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1. Good and Evil are equal forces

True - God is in control and uses the devil as a punishing rod upon the rebellious (Isa.10).

2. Our Free Will is a result of the Fall

Our free will comes from how God gave man free will, as He did with the angels also, otherwise even the cherub Satan could not have rebelled against Him. God creeated us to give Him pleasure, as in all things He originally created.

3. Knowledge of correct doctrine saves.

Not an error in thought. Doctrine involves principles of one's belief, a foundation. The Bible gives examples and teachings of the correct Doctrine unto Salvation, as written by God through His holy prophets and Apostles. Knowledge is not a negative word as some imply. Knowledge leads to understanding, and then by understanding leads to Faith and good works.

4. Thoughts or feelings can damn you

Not an error in thinking. The type of thoughts and feelings (emotions) one choses to entertain can and will influence their works and in what they chose to believe. This principle is often associated with how one's heart is in many Bible examples. As our Lord Jesus showed, where a man's heart is, that's where his treasure will be.

5. Being convinced of the truth and being converted mean the same thing

Not an error in thinking. Anyone believing on Christ Jesus must first be convinced of the Truth that He died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe. One must be convinced of the witness of His Apostles that He died on the cross and rose the third day. That conviction is of the heart and mind of the believer. So conviction and conversion go hand in hand.

6. Christians can argue people into the Kingdom

The word 'argue' is not a negative term in itself. It's a word to show what one believes. Apostle Paul argued with the non-believers at Mars Hill, even quoting principles of their own philosophers to present the 'argument' of Who God really is. Presenting such arguments in order to bring the unsaved to Christ is just and necessary. When Elijah gave a challenge to the false prophets of Baal to find out who The God really is, he was posing an argument to them. This is why God's Word is for correction and reproof also to reveal the difference between righteousness and wickedness.

7, Witnessing doctrine is the same thing as love,

Not an error in thinking. Witnessing The Gospel of Jesus Christ IS witnessing Doctrine, specifically the Doctrine of Salvation through Jesus Christ. It IS an act of love to do that with the unbeliever.

8. Christians cannot be arrogant

All peoples can be arrogant at times, for that's about emotions. But many mistake the boldness of Christian witnesses in preaching Christ's Salvation and Biblical Truth for arrogance, especially when God's Word convicts a sinner in giving a rebuke.

9. The gospel must be offensive to the world or it is too watered down

Not an error in thinking, for both are true. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to the majority of those who refuse Christ Jesus and instead follow the ways of this world. Christ never claimed to bring peace within this present world, but instead a sword. Likewise, The Gospel is watered down by some who are like a reed shaking in the wind.

10. Every time a Christian is criticized it is a direct result of the gospel, rather than their behavior

Sometimes Christians are critizied simply because they believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and especially because of their behaviour when such behaviour is in preaching Christ crucified. It would be silly to deny that, especially since there are many Bible witnesses to that fact.

11. The Bible must be literally true or it is not valuable.

Either The Bible is literally True, or it is not the Truth. Can't be both ways. Even when God's Word uses expressions, allegory, and metaphor or parable, those are simply methods to show literal Truths.

12. The most important concept the Bible has to offer is literal truth

Not an error in thinking. Once again, if The Bible is not literal Truth, then what is it? It is certainly not just a book of poetry, nor man's philosophy. It is God's Letter to us as given through His holy prophets and Apostles. It is not of man, but divinely given through man by The Holy Spirit.

13. The OT is a series of stories about good people doing good things, who should be emulated, rather than a cautionary tale for humanity.

The OT is about history to include examples of man's behaviour in relationship with God, and against God when in rebellion. It is a lesson guide for right action and thinking, where those in Faith in OT times should be seen as setting good examples for us (Hebrews 11). There's good examples to follow, and examples of what NOT to follow. But they were not just stories. The OT events actually happenned.

14. Our behavior can change the wrath of God outlined in the book of Revelation and Daniel.

Not really an error in thinking. For IF all men repented today and came to The Father through The Son, leaving sin, His wrath would not come. But through His Word we already know not everyone is going to repent, and thus His hand is still stretched out in preparation to bring His wrath.

15. A literal interpretation of the Creation story is necessary in order to believe in a literal translation of the Bible, which is necessary to believe in a literal understanding of Christ and our possible Redemption.

Understanding specifically 'how' God created the heavens and the earth is not a Salvation issue. But understanding it does open other areas of His Word in a deeper understanding that many struggle with. Like Christ told His Apostles, it was given for them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but for others it is not given. Those given to know will know.

16. People who reject the message of Christianity are our enemies.

Valid thinking error. Not everyone who refuses Christ is our literal enemy. But even they... will stand in judgment before Christ and give account.

17. The Devil is omnipresent

Valid thinking error. The devil is not omnipresent. God is in control.

18 God desires us to be destroyed rather than saved.

Truly an error in thinking. God desires for all men to come to repentance, and is long-sufferring.

19. God hates His enemies, but calls us to love our enemies.

God hates what the unjust do, as we should also. Showing discipline upon His enemies is not an act of hate.

20. Jesus only died for the elect.

Could be seen as an error of thinking, but He did die on the cross for His elect that were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph.2). He died on the cross for all that would believe too. But not all will believe on Him.

21, Acknowledging a person's freedom to sin is the same as condoning it

NOT an error in thinking. Even allowing the open practice of a sin IS condoning the sin (Judges 19). This is especially so within Christ's Body, even while the unbelievers outside His Church are doing all sorts of abominations. There is to be a line of separation between His Church and this world involving sin. This is why Apostle Paul rebuked those in the Church for sin, as Christ did also with five Churches in Asia (Rev.2 & 3).

22. The ends justify the means

That definitely is an error in thinking. The 'end justifies the means' (i.e., reaching the desired end makes up for the evil done to get there) is a negative principle used by the secret societies, like Weishaupt's Illuminati order in 17th century Bavaria. God's people should follow the principle of 'the end is justified BY the means'.

23. We were kicked out of Eden for eating the fruit

That is an error in thinking. Adam and Eve disobeyed God's commandment is why they were expelled.

24. God can break His own rules

Depends on what is meant by "His own rules". God has had, and can have, a change of heart and hold off a punishment if His children repent and come back to Him. But His eternal law, He will not change, for it is immutable, and will exist for eternity.

25. Jesus was a conservative (I am not using this term in a political way)

Jesus told His Apostles to fish out of the right side of the boat (I'm not using that in a political way either).
 

aspen

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This should be a good discussion :)

Not an error in thought. Doctrine involves principles of one's belief, a foundation. The Bible gives examples and teachings of the correct Doctrine unto Salvation, as written by God through His holy prophets and Apostles. Knowledge is not a negative word as some imply. Knowledge leads to understanding, and then by understanding leads to Faith and good works.


I agree that knowledge is not bad - it is simply not enough. Our heart and mind need to be united in Christ. Doctrine in itself does not save - nor will God give us a test on doctrine before we can enter heaven. Only God's Grace saves.

Not an error in thinking. The type of thoughts and feelings (emotions) one choses to entertain can and will influence their works and in what they chose to believe. This principle is often associated with how one's heart is in many Bible examples. As our Lord Jesus showed, where a man's heart is, that's where his treasure will be.

Thoughts and feeling may influence us, but they will not damn us. [font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8:39&version=NIV"]Romans 8:39[/url] neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/font]

Not an error in thinking. Anyone believing on Christ Jesus must first be convinced of the Truth that He died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe. One must be convinced of the witness of His Apostles that He died on the cross and rose the third day. That conviction is of the heart and mind of the believer. So conviction and conversion go hand in hand.

The demons are convinced and they shutter. Conversion requires a heart change as well as knowledge. In fact, God is more interested in the heart than He is in the mind.

The word 'argue' is not a negative term in itself. It's a word to show what one believes. Apostle Paul argued with the non-believers at Mars Hill, even quoting principles of their own philosophers to present the 'argument' of Who God really is. Presenting such arguments in order to bring the unsaved to Christ is just and necessary. When Elijah gave a challenge to the false prophets of Baal to find out who The God really is, he was posing an argument to them. This is why God's Word is for correction and reproof also to reveal the difference between righteousness and wickedness.

Once again, convincing someone that Jesus died on the Cross for their sins is not enough - conversion requires a heart change - also trying to convince someone of the truth invites pride and stubbornness to enter, which can impede conversion. I agree that convincing the mind is important, but it is not necessarily the first step.

Not an error in thinking. Witnessing The Gospel of Jesus Christ IS witnessing Doctrine, specifically the Doctrine of Salvation through Jesus Christ. It IS an act of love to do that with the unbeliever.

I disagree with this point the most, so far. Witnessing Christ is not done in words - words and doctrine may explain our behavior, but love is the Good News we are sharing.

All peoples can be arrogant at times, for that's about emotions. But many mistake the boldness of Christian witnesses in preaching Christ's Salvation and Biblical Truth for arrogance, especially when God's Word convicts a sinner in giving a rebuke.

There is no room for arrogance in the witnessing process - zero. As far as being 'bold' I think it is a nice way of saying arrogant. I've never ever seen boldness convert anyone's heart and mind - I have seen it harden hearts.

Not an error in thinking, for both are true. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to the majority of those who refuse Christ Jesus and instead follow the ways of this world. Christ never claimed to bring peace within this present world, but instead a sword. Likewise, The Gospel is watered down by some who are like a reed shaking in the wind.

It does not have to be offensive to be truth. In fact, in this postmodern world, the gospel is often seen as simply one of the many religions in the marketplace - rarely is it seen as offensive unless it is promoted by an arrogant witness. Which brings up my point, we may be tempted to try and be arrogant in our witness to place an exclamation point on the message, but there is no need to do so. Many of the people who heard Christ's message, which was not presented in an arrogant manner were converted - it was the proud people that heard the message that rejected it.

Sometimes Christians are critizied simply because they believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and especially because of their behaviour when such behaviour is in preaching Christ crucified. It would be silly to deny that, especially since there are many Bible witnesses to that fact.

Of course some Christians are criticized because of the message - most Christians exploited by the media are criticized because they are either rude or have poor social skills.

Either The Bible is literally True, or it is not the Truth. Can't be both ways. Even when God's Word uses expressions, allegory, and metaphor or parable, those are simply methods to show literal Truths.

Allegories, metaphors, and parables are not literal truth. Everything in the Bible is valuable, but not all of it is historic or scientifically true.

Not an error in thinking. Once again, if The Bible is not literal Truth, then what is it? It is certainly not just a book of poetry, nor man's philosophy. It is God's Letter to us as given through His holy prophets and Apostles. It is not of man, but divinely given through man by The Holy Spirit.

Your requirement for the Bible to be literally true says more about your post-enlightenment, western mindset than your Christianity. Literal truth from the Bible has only been expected from Christians since the fundamentalist movement at the turn of the last century. Before the 20th century, only deists like Thomas Jefferson who wrote his own "miracle free" version of the NT, required a literal version of the Bible and before that no one gave much thought to what really happened and simply what God said. Christianity was not considered using reason or science like it is today.

The OT is about history to include examples of man's behaviour in relationship with God, and against God when in rebellion. It is a lesson guide for right action and thinking, where those in Faith in OT times should be seen as setting good examples for us (Hebrews 11). There's good examples to follow, and examples of what NOT to follow. But they were not just stories. The OT events actually happenned.

Nothing wrong with stories - everything in the Bible is supposed to be there and valuable. Mostly, it is an account of how people failed to react well to God's omnipotence. Although, I should say that I believe the historical parts of the OT and NT really happened.

Not really an error in thinking. For IF all men repented today and came to The Father through The Son, leaving sin, His wrath would not come. But through His Word we already know not everyone is going to repent, and thus His hand is still stretched out in preparation to bring His wrath.

Well, if humans did repent, Revelation would be a lie. We cannot change what is going to happen and trying to do so is like Peter trying to get Christ to not go to the Cross.

God hates what the unjust do, as we should also. Showing discipline upon His enemies is not an act of hate.

Why should His enemies be disciplined? If they have free will and are destined for eternity in Hell, why are they not allowed to convict themselves while they are on Earth?

Could be seen as an error of thinking, but He did die on the cross for His elect that were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph.2). He died on the cross for all that would believe too. But not all will believe on Him.

According to John 3:16, Jesus died for the whole world.

NOT an error in thinking. Even allowing the open practice of a sin IS condoning the sin (Judges 19). This is especially so within Christ's Body, even while the unbelievers outside His Church are doing all sorts of abominations. There is to be a line of separation between His Church and this world involving sin. This is why Apostle Paul rebuked those in the Church for sin, as Christ did also with five Churches in Asia (Rev.2 & 3).

The entire chapter of Judges is horrific - everyone in the story sinned except the virgin daughter. The point of that story is that we are all sinners and need to be redeemed. God gave us free will - the freedom to accept His will for our lives and eternity and the freedom to reject it. The United States is a country of people with different religious and secular beliefs. The US allows a sex industry, Hollywood, alcohol and all kinds of vices as long as it can make money on the vices they are legal. Why do you feel that it is the right of Christians to curb the free will of nonbelievers and US law?

That is an error in thinking. Adam and Eve disobeyed God's commandment is why they were expelled.

A&E were kicked out because they were unrepentant.

Depends on what is meant by "His own rules". God has had, and can have, a change of heart and hold off a punishment if His children repent and come back to Him. But His eternal law, He will not change, for it is immutable, and will exist for eternity.

God backed away from His mindset to encourage Moses' empathy.

Jesus told His Apostles to fish out of the right side of the boat (I'm not using that in a political way either).


LOL - well obviously He must have been a conservative!! He was telling them to try something new - liberal.

Peace
 

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-- I have had this conversation with other Christians before. Those that criticize the practice of homosexuality are sometimes surprised to find that God is just as displeased with adultery, divorce, shoplifting, cheating on your taxes, rumor mongoring, etc. etc. etc.

Since when is cheating on your taxes a sin?
This is not a religious issue, it is a nationalistic one.

One of the methods used by a corrupt government to justify and maintain its unlawful existance is taxation.

Some of our greatest heros despised, denied and refused to pay taxes.
In fiction - Robin Hood.
In politics - the Boston Tea party
In war - the American Revolution (taxation without representation)

The list goes on and on, but I think my point is made.
Cheating or refusing to pay taxes is a time honored American tradition.

I do not myself consider the payment of taxes to be either religious, moral or in some cases even legal in nature.
Taxation is certainly not such that would be an issue between man and God, only between a man and his oppressive government.
 

Foreigner

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Since when is cheating on your taxes a sin?
This is not a religious issue, it is a nationalistic one.


-- "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars.." - Jesus (Matt 22: 20-21)

Unless you really think that disobeying a directive from Jesus ISN'T a sin.... :)
 

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Choir Loft
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-- "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars.." - Jesus (Matt 22: 20-21)

Unless you really think that disobeying a directive from Jesus ISN'T a sin.... :)

Are you a Christian?
Do you attend worship services as a church member?
Do you contribute voluntarily to the organization?

THEN YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO TAX EVASION.

My point is this, that every Christian is directly or indirectly GUILTY of tax evasion when they contribute either by their attendance, activity or donations to a church WHICH ENJOYS TAX EXEMPTION. Did Jesus say render unto Caesar 'unless you have an exemption' or did He say to pay? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
You cannot say non-payment of taxes is a sin and then claim an exemption.

If the argument that cheating on taxes is a sin is accepted, then the axiom must also be accepted that tax exemption robs the community or municipality of financial resources that could be employed to;
- line the pockets of corrupt bureaucrats and politicians
- pay for needful services such as police, fire dept, and public works
- contribute to welfare fraud by adding to the financial pool
...and so on.

When Jesus pulled a coin out of a fishes mouth to pay the taxes, He didn't live in America.
The US government would have also demanded a piece of the fish as well.

My point is this, that payment or non-payment of taxes is NOT a sin issue.
Where is it listed in the ten commandments that one is in danger of hell fire if one renegs on tax payment?

If it IS A SIN, then your church has not met its religious, moral and financial obligation to the community it serves by NOT paying its rightful share of taxes to support the common, albeit corrupt, government. It owes back taxes.

Don't you see that the argument cuts both ways.

On the other hand you can continue to CHEAT your community and not pay a proper and rightful share.
The church - your church - enjoys community resources such as police and fire protection, without paying a just and fair share.
THIS IS CHEATING and by the definition of some - sinful.

Do you see how ridiculous this is? The idea of taxation being equal to a mandate from God is rubbish.

The whole argument thus degenerates into a legal and academic argument, but it is definitely not spiritual.

IMO, my church's exemption from local taxes is a matter of municipal discussion.

If cheating on taxes is a sin, then every one of us is thus condemned, not by Christ but by the mayor.
 

Foreigner

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Wow, I wish I had put on my boots before I read rjp's post.

Should you pay the taxes required by your government? Yes.

Are the churches afforded by law a tax exemptions? Yes

Are your tithes and offerings to those churches tax exempt? Yes

Not liking those facts is not automatically make those facts somewhow wrong.


"Do you see how ridiculous this is? The idea of taxation being equal to a mandate from God is rubbish." - rjp

- "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars" is saying that you as a Christian need to obey the laws of the country you live in unless those laws contradict God's laws.


rjp, you should really switch to decaf :)
 

aspen

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Hilarious!! So all I needed to do was simply classify the issue of homosexuality as a 'political' issue and suddenly there is no problem at all? I declare cheating on your taxes and homosexuality to be political issues - so now everything is ok!

Peace