This Is Inexcusable

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Foreigner

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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-church-files-20130122,0,3114631.story


L.A CHURCH LEADERS SOUGHT TO HIDE SEX ABUSE CASES FROM AUTHORITIES

L.A. church leaders sought to hide sex abuse cases from authorities Documents from the late 1980s show that Archbishop Roger M. Mahony and another archdiocese official discussed strategies to keep police from discovering that children were being sexually abused by priests.





By Victoria Kim, Ashley Powers and Harriet Ryan, Los Angeles Times
January 21, 2013, 2:31 p.m.



Fifteen years before the clergy sex abuse scandal came to light, Archbishop Roger M. Mahony and a top advisor plotted to conceal child molestation by priests from law enforcement, including keeping them out of California to avoid prosecution, according to internal Catholic church records released Monday.
The archdiocese's failure to purge pedophile clergy and reluctance to cooperate with law enforcement has previously been known. But the memos written in 1986 and 1987 by Mahony and Msgr. Thomas J. Curry, then the archdiocese's chief advisor on sex abuse cases, offer the strongest evidence yet of a concerted effort by officials in the nation's largest Catholic diocese to shield abusers from police. The newly released records, which the archdiocese fought for years to keep secret, reveal in church leaders' own words a desire to keep authorities from discovering that children were being molested.
In the confidential letters, filed this month as evidence in a civil court case, Curry proposed strategies to prevent police from investigating three priests who had admitted to church officials that they abused young boys. Curry suggested to Mahony that they prevent them from seeing therapists who might alert authorities and that they give the priests out-of-state assignments to avoid criminal investigators.
One such case that has previously received little attention is that of Msgr. Peter Garcia, who admitted preying for decades on undocumented children in predominantly Spanish-speaking parishes. After Garcia's discharge from a New Mexico treatment center for pedophile clergy, Mahony ordered him to stay away from California "for the foreseeable future" in order to avoid legal accountability, the files show. "I believe that if Monsignor Garcia were to reappear here within the archdiocese we might very well have some type of legal action filed in both the criminal and civil sectors," the archbishop wrote to the treatment center's director in July 1986.
The following year, in a letter to Mahony about bringing Garcia back to work in the archdiocese, Curry said he was worried that victims in Los Angeles might see the priest and call police.
"[T]here are numerous — maybe twenty — adolescents or young adults that Peter was involved with in a first degree felony manner. The possibility of one of these seeing him is simply too great," Curry wrote in May 1987.
Garcia returned to the Los Angeles area later that year; the archdiocese did not give him a ministerial assignment because he refused to take medication to suppress his sexual urges. He left the priesthood in 1989, according to the church.
Garcia was never prosecuted and died in 2009. The files show he admitted to a therapist that he had sexually abused boys "on and off" since his 1966 ordination. He assured church officials his victims were unlikely to come forward because of their immigration status. In at least one case, according to a church memo, he threatened to have a boy he had raped deported if he went to police.
The memos are from personnel files for 14 priests submitted to a judge on behalf of a man who claims he was abused by one of the priests, Father Nicholas Aguilar Rivera. The man's attorney, Anthony De Marco, wrote in court papers the files show "a practice of thwarting law enforcement investigations" by the archdiocese. It's not always clear from the records whether the church followed through on all its discussions about eluding police, but in some cases, such as Garcia’s, it did.
Mahony, who retired in 2011, has apologized repeatedly for errors in handling abuse allegations. In a statement Monday, he apologized once again and recounted meetings he's had with about 90 victims of abuse.
"I have a 3 x 5 card for every victim I met with on the altar of my small chapel. I pray for them every single day," he wrote. "As I thumb through those cards I often pause as I am reminded of each personal story and the anguish that accompanies that life story."
"It remains my daily and fervent prayer that God's grace will flood the heart and soul of each victim, and that their life-journey continues forward with ever greater healing," he added. "I am sorry."
Curry did not return calls seeking comment. He currently serves as the archdiocese's auxiliary bishop for Santa Barbara.
The confidential files of at least 75 more accused abusers are slated to become public in coming weeks under the terms of a 2007 civil settlement with more than 500 victims. A private mediator had ordered the names of the church hierarchy redacted from those documents, but after objections from The Times and the Associated Press, a Superior Court judge ruled that the names of Mahony, Curry and others in supervisory roles should not be blacked out.
Garcia's was one of three cases in 1987 in which top church officials discussed ways they could stymie law enforcement. In a letter about Father Michael Wempe, who had acknowledged using a 12-year-old parishioner as what a church official called his "sex partner," Curry recounted extensive conversations with the priest about potential criminal prosecution.
"He is afraid ... records will be sought by the courts at some time and that they could convict him," Curry wrote to Mahony. "He is very aware that what he did comes within the scope of criminal law."
Curry proposed Wempe could go to an out-of-state diocese "if need be." He called it "surprising" that a church-paid counselor hadn't reported Wempe to police and wrote that he and Wempe "agreed it would be better if Mike did not return to him."
Perhaps, Curry added, the priest could be sent to "a lawyer who is also a psychiatrist" thereby putting "the reports under the protection of privilege."
Curry expressed similar concerns to Mahony about Father Michael Baker, who had admitted his abuse of young boys during a private 1986 meeting with the archbishop.
In a memo about Baker's return to ministry, Curry wrote, "I see a difficulty here, in that if he were to mention his problem with child abuse it would put the therapist in the position of having to report him … he cannot mention his past problem."
Mahony's response to the memo was handwritten across the bottom of the page: "Sounds good —please proceed!!" Two decades would pass before authorities gathered enough information to convict Baker and Wempe of abusing boys.
Federal and state prosecutors have investigated possible conspiracy cases against the archdiocese hierarchy. Former Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley said in 2007 that his probe into the conduct of high-ranking church officials was on hold until his prosecutors could access the personnel files of all the abusers. The U.S. attorney's office convened a grand jury in 2009, but no charges resulted.
During those investigations, the church was forced by judges to turn over some but not all of the records to prosecutors. The district attorney's office has said its prosecutors plan to review priest personnel files as they are released.
Mahony was appointed archbishop in 1985 after five years leading the Stockton diocese. While there, he had dealt with three allegations of clergy abuse, including one case in which he personally reported the priest to police.
In Los Angeles, he tapped Curry, an Irish-born priest, as vicar of clergy. The records show that sex abuse allegations were handled almost exclusively by the archbishop and his vicar. Memos that crossed their desks included graphic details, such as one letter from another priest accusing Garcia of tying up and raping a young boy in Lancaster.
Mahony personally phoned the priests' therapists about their progress, wrote the priests encouraging letters and dispatched Curry to visit them at a New Mexico facility, Servants of the Paraclete, that treated pedophile priests.
"Each of you there at Jemez Springs is very much in my prayers and I call you to mind each day during my celebration of the Eucharist," Mahony wrote to Wempe.
The month after he was named archbishop, Mahony met with Garcia to discuss his molestation of boys, according to a letter the priest wrote while in therapy. Mahony instructed him to be "very low key" and assured him "no one was looking at him for any criminal action," Garcia recalled in a letter to an official at Servants of the Paraclete.
In a statement Monday on behalf of the archdiocese, a lawyer for the church said its policy in the late 1980s was to let victims and their families decide whether to go to the police.
"Not surprisingly, the families of victims frequently did not wish to report to police and have their child become the center of a public prosecution," lawyer J. Michael Hennigan wrote.
He acknowledged memos written in those years "sometimes focused more on the needs of the perpetrator than on the serious harm that had been done to the victims."
"That is part of the past," Hennigan wrote. "We are embarrassed and at times ashamed by parts of the past. But we are proud of our progress, which is continuing."
Hennigan said that the years in which Mahony dealt with Garcia were "a period of deepening understanding of the nature of the problem of sex abuse both here and in our society in general" and that the archdiocese subsequently changed completely its approach to reports of abuse.
"We now have retired FBI agents who thoroughly investigate every allegation, even anonymous calls. We aggressively assist in the criminal prosecution of offenders," Hennigan wrote.
Mahony and Curry have been questioned under oath in depositions numerous times about their handling of molestation cases. The men, however, have never been asked about attempts to stymie law enforcement, because the personnel files documenting those discussions were only provided to civil attorneys in recent months. De Marco, the lawyer who filed the records in civil court this month, asked a judge last week to order Curry and Mahony to submit to new depositions “regarding their actions, knowledge and intent as referenced in these files.” A hearing on that request is set for February.
In a 2010 deposition, Mahony acknowledged the archdiocese had never called police to report sexual abuse by a priest before 2000. He said church officials were unable to do so because they didn't know the names of the children harmed.
"In my experience, you can only call the police when you've got victims you can talk to," Mahony said.
When an attorney for an alleged victim suggested "the right thing to do" would have been to summon police immediately, Mahony replied, "Well, today it would. But back then that isn't the way those matters were approached."
Since clergy weren't legally required to report suspected child abuse until 1997, Mahony said, the people who should have alerted police about pedophiles like Baker and Wempe were victims' therapists or other "mandatory reporters" of child abuse.
"Psychologists, counselors … they were also the first ones to learn [of abuse] so they were normally the ones who made the reports," he said.
In Garcia's 451-page personnel file, one voice decried the church's failures to protect the victims and condemned the priest as someone who deserved to be behind bars. Father Arturo Gomez, an associate pastor at a predominantly Spanish-speaking church near Olvera Street, wrote to a regional bishop in 1989, saying he was "angry" and "disappointed" at the church's failure to help Garcia's victims. He expressed shock that the bishop, Juan A. Arzube, had told the family of two of the boys that Garcia had thought of taking his own life.
"You seemed to be at that moment more concern[ed] for the criminal rather than the victum! (sic)" Gomez wrote to Arzube in 1989.
Gomez urged church leaders to identify others who may have been harmed by Garcia and to get them help, but was told they didn't know how.
"If I was the father … Peter Garcia would be in prison now; and I would probably have begun a lawsuit against the archdiocese," the priest wrote in the letter. "The parents … of the two boys are more forgiving and compassionate than I would be."
 
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IAmAWitness

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The Catholic church is social networking for pedophiles.

I know my opinion is inflammatory and may be thought of as offensive to some, but I have not come to compromise on the truth with anyone. This is what it is: They are the remnant of the Sodomites. The Church is a monster and an abomination and the sooner we drop them as Protestants and modern Christians the better. Their actions have given great cause for blasphemy against our religion because the world fails to see the distinction in what we follow and what they follow. Let us drop them with no support and no cause for unity, they are condemned of God.
 
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Pelaides

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I dont think they all should br punished,because of the actions of a few.The Catholic church has clearly been infiltrated by the powers of satan,but that does not mean all catholics are evil.The good the church has done outweighs the bad.Remember we are all brothers in Christ.
 
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aspen

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nice job 'IAW' you gave Foreigner exactly the prejudiced, fodder he was fishing for. Hope you are pleased with yourself Foreigner.
 

MTPockets

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Pelaides said:
I dont think they all should br punished,because of the actions of a few.The Catholic church has clearly been infiltrated by the powers of satan,but that does not mean all catholics are evil.The good the church has done outweighs the bad.Remember we are all brothers in Christ.
Ho, Hummm
It's that same o'l game of pick-n'-choose.
Pick the evil person or the depraved religion 'er whatever and make it your negative imagination for the day.
It would be a comedy if it were not so destructive.
Seems to me that the only group of people who escape entirely unscatheed by their activities are the Jewish folks.Everyone else is up for grabs by any sort of blanket accusation ... real or imagined. The so-called Chosen can commit every sort of atrocity, murder and theft with impunity.
Those who choose to name God by another Name are merely collateral damage. What does it matter if you steal their possessions and hover drone aircraft above their huts? Somehow they richly deserve it.
And people wonder why the Christian gospel is so incredibly ineffectual offshore?
I was especially struck by the words saying, "I don't think they all should be pubished because of the actions of a few".
It rang in my ears as something of a demented joke.
Do you apply these same words towards those of the Muslim faith? Wasn't it only a 'few' out of their millions too who became jihadists?
Would it surprise you to know that more than half the world holds the opinion that Christians are egaged with yet another Inquisition?
No, I'm not a Muslim.
I was born a Catholic. When reaching adulthood, I chose not to align myself with any particular religion.
It was me who years ago initiated the criminal investigation of the pedophile clergy at St. Josephs. I was a resident of this school for 5 years and saw every imaginable ugliness. So, it's not as if all these sort of accusations should appear as false to me.
If anyone should have a reason to summarily dismiss and condemn all followers of the Catholic religion, it should be me.
But, I do not.
Neither do I suspect, condemn nor accuse all Muslims or any other religion for that matter on account of the 'few' ... not even the Jewish folks who have richly earned condemnation for their behavior and activites stretching at least over much of the last 50 years.
Everyone is accountable individually.
 
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afaithfulone4u

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I would never condone such behavior as harming a child or any man for this sums up the whole law to cause no man harm. But what does the Bible tell the Church to do in such cases? Doesn't it warn against taking our grievences to the ungodly courts of the devils spawn who have fallen from the moral and just ways of truth?
Why is it that some believers ridicule the church for not seeking the counsel of the UNGODLY? Are ye not yet still carnal??
1 Cor 6:1-11
6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
KJV
 

Foreigner

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aspen2 said:
nice job 'IAW' you gave Foreigner exactly the prejudiced, fodder he was fishing for. Hope you are pleased with yourself Foreigner.
-- Aspen must you always play the victim? And a dishonest one at that?

I have said multiple times here that there are indeed people within the Catholic church that love Jesus and will be with Him in heaven.
I have quoted my pastor more than once who has said that "there are people in the Catholic church two blocks away who are going to heaven, but there are people within this very church who are likely going to hell."

I have every right to be outraged by this behavior. Innocent children were molested, their childhoods destroyed. And it happened on a large ongoing scale.
And leaders of that church intentionally kept it secret. It put the church above those that are supposed to be the priority of the church.
And by doing so, ensured that the behavior was going to continue. There is no excuse.

Please grow up. I know, it is a lot to ask, but at least try.
 
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Arnie Manitoba

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There is a little more to it than that ..... I think it is fair to call it a "homosexual agenda" that has used the Catholic church as a cover.

Especially in years gone by when being gay had to be kept hidden ...... and because those guys never wanted to get married (to a woman) the perfect career would be to join the church and no longer have to explain why not married ...... and of course they encounter other priests who are there for the same reason and an "insider group" begins to form.

A percentage of those gays are also pedophile and before long they figured out who else is attracted to altar boys and another secret "insider group" forms.

Over the years these people with evil lusts permeated the church structure ..... they knew what was going on yet didn't stop it because they were part of it.

The "straight priests" who saw glimpses of it could not very well go public with it because it would be denied for one thing .... and do tremendous damage to the church they served as well.

Some of the worst offenders were transferred to another Parrish simply to get rid of the problem locally and the abuse continued in the new location.

Some Catholic insiders say there is actuality an entrenched (evil) group of Homosexuals all the way up to the Vatican ..... and they have great influence and threaten blackmail against the whistle-blowers .... it is a serious problem.

The secular police and court system have slowly been able to bring out these facts but it has been a long and difficult road. ..... some say if the catholic church really cleaned house they would probably have to fire over 1/3 of the staff ..... and they are short of priests to begin with.

Being gay and doing secret evil things inside a church is very pleasing to the devil.
 
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IAmAWitness

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Arnie Manitoba said:
There is a little more to it than that ..... I think it is fair to call it a "homosexual agenda" that has used the Catholic church as a cover.

Especially in years gone by when being gay had to be kept hidden ...... and because those guys never wanted to get married (to a woman) the perfect career would be to join the church and no longer have to explain why not married ...... and of course they encounter other priests who are there for the same reason and an "insider group" begins to form.

A percentage of those gays are also pedophile and before long they figured out who else is attracted to altar boys and another secret "insider group" forms.

Over the years these people with evil lusts permeated the church structure ..... they knew what was going on yet didn't stop it because they were part of it.

The "straight priests" who saw glimpses of it could not very well go public with it because it would be denied for one thing .... and do tremendous damage to the church they served as well.

Some of the worst offenders were transferred to another Parrish simply to get rid of the problem locally and the abuse continued in the new location.

Some Catholic insiders say there is actuality an entrenched (evil) group of Homosexuals all the way up to the Vatican ..... and they have great influence and threaten blackmail against the whistle-blowers .... it is a serious problem.

The secular police and court system have slowly been able to bring out these facts but it has been a long and difficult road. ..... some say if the catholic church really cleaned house they would probably have to fire over 1/3 of the staff ..... and they are short of priests to begin with.

Being gay and doing secret evil things inside a church is very pleasing to the devil.
Do you have any links I can read into for that?
 

aspen

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Why would anyone feel victimized by tabloid coverage of events that happenned decades ago? It is a shame that your posts have become so irrelevant lately......Zionism.......anticatholic .......what's next, the Royal Family? Was Princess Di really a Palistinian agent who sheltered gay priests?
 
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I am Second

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aspen2 said:
nice job 'IAW' you gave Foreigner exactly the prejudiced, fodder he was fishing for. Hope you are pleased with yourself Foreigner.
aspen2 said:
Why would anyone feel victimized by tabloid coverage of events that happenned decades ago? It is a shame that your posts have become so irrelevant lately......Zionism.......anticatholic .......what's next, the Royal Family? Was Princess Di really a Palistinian agent who sheltered gay priests?
Yikes. I think I'll keep lurking instead of voicing my opinion. I thought it would be different on a Christian forum. Berating, accusing, mocking. Ugh.
 

MTPockets

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Arnie Manitoba said:
There is a little more to it than that ..... I think it is fair to call it a "homosexual agenda" that has used the Catholic church as a cover.

Especially in years gone by when being gay had to be kept hidden ...... and because those guys never wanted to get married (to a woman) the perfect career would be to join the church and no longer have to explain why not married ...... and of course they encounter other priests who are there for the same reason and an "insider group" begins to form.

A percentage of those gays are also pedophile and before long they figured out who else is attracted to altar boys and another secret "insider group" forms.

Over the years these people with evil lusts permeated the church structure ..... they knew what was going on yet didn't stop it because they were part of it.

The "straight priests" who saw glimpses of it could not very well go public with it because it would be denied for one thing .... and do tremendous damage to the church they served as well.

Some of the worst offenders were transferred to another Parrish simply to get rid of the problem locally and the abuse continued in the new location.

Some Catholic insiders say there is actuality an entrenched (evil) group of Homosexuals all the way up to the Vatican ..... and they have great influence and threaten blackmail against the whistle-blowers .... it is a serious problem.

The secular police and court system have slowly been able to bring out these facts but it has been a long and difficult road. ..... some say if the catholic church really cleaned house they would probably have to fire over 1/3 of the staff ..... and they are short of priests to begin with.

Being gay and doing secret evil things inside a church is very pleasing to the devil.
It's been my observation that those who habitually accuse others as having an agenda expose their own agenda.
 

Foreigner

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aspen2 said:
Why would anyone feel victimized by tabloid coverage of events that happenned decades ago? It is a shame that your posts have become so irrelevant lately......Zionism.......anticatholic .......what's next, the Royal Family? Was Princess Di really a Palistinian agent who sheltered gay priests?
Now you are really acting the child lol

Aspen, are you really that dim?
This particular activity may have occurred a couple of decades ago, BUT IT WAS ONLY REPORTED NOW.
I just learned about this NOW.

The leaders with the Catholic church intentionally and repeatedly turned a blind eye on the sexual abuse of minors.
I knew it was bad but I was shocked that it happened to this degree.
Multiple priest were committing MULTIPLE felonies against defenseless children, and the ArchDiocese COVERED FOR THEM.

From the article: "The confidential files of at least 75 more accused abusers are slated to become public in coming weeks"

Apparently this occurance is so normal that they even have a place to regularly send the priests. The article mentions a "New Mexico treatment center for pedophile clergy."

Why is this widespread abuse of minors (almost exclusively young boys) mainly found in this denomination?
(Other denominations have the occasional pastor or reverend who commits sexual sin, but when found out they are rooted out, and if it is actual sexual abuse they are charged and the demonination(s) cooperate to ensure they are punished.


One is left wondering if the reason there are so many pedophile priests is because so many pedophiles are choosing to become priests.
Either that or it is some quirk of living a celebate life that causes so many priests to go after mostly those of their own gender who are below the age of consent.



But let's be honest Aspen. Your stated beliefs hardly make you a Catholic anyway.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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MTPockets said:
It's been my observation that those who habitually accuse others as having an agenda expose their own agenda.
;
Agenda may be the wrong word so I will retype it in a language you might understand better ...

The queers didnt want to ever get married so they realized a good cover would be to become a priest ..... that way they could wear dress like robes and be seen as fine upstanding people in the community.

They were celibate with women but not celibate with each other ...... and that was not enough satisfaction for some of them ... they wanted kids and altar boys as well.

Many good men became priests for good and noble reasons
Some men became priests to camouflage their homosexuality.
 
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Selene

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Arnie Manitoba said:
;
Agenda may be the wrong word so I will retype it in a language you might understand better ...

The queers didnt want to ever get married so they realized a good cover would be to become a priest ..... that way they could wear dress like robes and be seen as fine upstanding people in the community.

They were celibate with women but not celibate with each other ...... and that was not enough satisfaction for some of them ... they wanted kids and altar boys as well.

Many good men became priests for good and noble reasons
Some men became priests to camouflage their homosexuality.
Some of those homosexuals also deliberately joined the priesthood in the hopes of changing the doctrines of the Catholic Church from the inside. The Catholic Church have always been outspoken against same sex marriage. Other churches caved in and gave in to accepting same sex marriage. The gay activists have an agenda.
 

Foreigner

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Selene said:
Some of those homosexuals also deliberately joined the priesthood in the hopes of changing the doctrines of the Catholic Church from the inside. The Catholic Church have always been outspoken against same sex marriage. Other churches caved in and gave in to accepting same sex marriage. The gay activists have an agenda.
-- I would venture to say that a number of pedophiles have joined the priesthood as well, likely for the purpose of having access to small children from a dominant/leadership position.
 
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Arnie Manitoba

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Selene said:
Some of those homosexuals also deliberately joined the priesthood in the hopes of changing the doctrines of the Catholic Church from the inside. The Catholic Church have always been outspoken against same sex marriage. Other churches caved in and gave in to accepting same sex marriage. The gay activists have an agenda.
.
Yes .... and one Pope even went so far as to say "The smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican"
Most of my information comes from high level Catholic insiders (The good Catholics)
I am not Catholic myself

Anyone who wants to truly understand the homosexual agenda should read "The Marketing of Evil"
It is a factual book and YES !!!! .... there is a conspiracy that is directed at society and children
and it has been very successful thru the years

Ever notice not a day goes by without some media mention about gays ???? This is done on purpose.
The gay community is actually quite small but the propaganda campaign is huge.

There are many good and decent gays who quietly carry on their lives in private without forcing
anyone to do anything. We should recognize not all have evil intent , most are good people.

I am not Catholic , nor am I anti Catholic
I am not gay , nor am I anti-gay
My concern is how society is sliding into moral destruction
And it drags a portion of the church with it
Protestants too ... just look at all the adultery and scandals
Nobody is blameless.
 

Foreigner

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Arnie Manitoba said:
.
Yes .... and one Pope even went so far as to say "The smoke of Satan has entered the Vatican"
Most of my information comes from high level Catholic insiders (The good Catholics)
I am not Catholic myself
-- My question is, how exactly would you define "high level Catholic insiders" and why would you, a non-Catholic be trusted by what you imply is more than just one of them?
 

Pelaides

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Selene said:
Some of those homosexuals also deliberately joined the priesthood in the hopes of changing the doctrines of the Catholic Church from the inside. The Catholic Church have always been outspoken against same sex marriage. Other churches caved in and gave in to accepting same sex marriage. The gay activists have an agenda.
Your exactly right,they want to corrupt the church,the children,and the rest of society,and the scary thing is,their succeding.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Foreigner said:
-- My question is, how exactly would you define "high level Catholic insiders" and why would you, a non-Catholic be trusted by what you imply is more than just one of them?
.
If you are searching for public information a good place to start is with all of Malachi Martin's books.
That will keep you busy for a while

Malachi was a devoted and Loyal Catholic who stepped away from his position in order to critique the church which he loved. He is an honest author and his motive was always to bring the Catholic church back to true Christianity.

He also remained part of an "insider group" within the Catholic Church ..... this group we can refer to as the good guys ..... and they were always trying to solve the problem of the embedded evil they saw going on.

The majority of Malachi Martins books are regarded as accurate and historically factual ..... but in order to go public with some of the unmentionable things in the church he chose to write one book in the form of a novel.

It is titled "Windswept House" and Malachi stated it is 80% true only the names have been changed and some drama added to make it into a seamless captivating story.