Three days in hell

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Adam

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Those creators of the Matrix (movie) certainly got a glimpse of 'something' -didn't they? A good telling of an old story. The ability to 'see past everything' is what Jesus brought. If you are able to step back far enough, you can recognize that from a spiritual sense-- the prison walls are indeed human cells. Where spirits are held captive, each serving 'a life sentence.' It would be a horrible loop, if one never escaped it.
Is it so horrible? Why worry about the worry boots? It's just life. Embrace it, we would not be here except for the will of God.

You know, if I see a beautiful woman looking at me, I avoid looking back at her because I am a married man and I don't want to be tempted. They say you can only ever see demons from the corner of your eye. Am I in hell?

On the other hand, I suppose that this woman who is like a demonic tempter to me is someone else's darling angel and the light of their life. Maybe through her, her parents see a glimpse of heaven?

Maybe she is just a person, no better or worse than any other person. Are we on Earth?

Maybe neither of us really exist, and there is only two ideas of a person, floating about, encountering eachother and wondering what it is they see.
 

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Adam

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Those creators of the Matrix (movie) certainly got a glimpse of 'something' -didn't they? A good telling of an old story. The ability to 'see past everything' is what Jesus brought. If you are able to step back far enough, you can recognize that from a spiritual sense-- the prison walls are indeed human cells. Where spirits are held captive, each serving 'a life sentence.' It would be a horrible loop, if one never escaped it.
P.S. You'll see this story repeated all the way back to the beginning of history. It is THE story, told by every culture around the world, even those with no writing system and who have not contacted outsiders for thousands of years. It is imprinted onto the human consciousness just like the idea of God is. The Trademark Argument argues that because every human has an instinctive idea of God, then God must exist. If God also stuck this story in our heads, it's probably a pretty important story.
 
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Mr E

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P.S. You'll see this story repeated all the way back to the beginning of history. It is THE story, told by every culture around the world, even those with no writing system and who have not contacted outsiders for thousands of years. It is imprinted onto the human consciousness just like the idea of God is. The Trademark Argument argues that because every human has an instinctive idea of God, then God must exist. If God also stuck this story in our heads, it's probably a pretty important story.

The story known, though cast unborn
As from a Book, from pages torn


 

Mr E

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From this unorthodox view of things-- the perspective is the spiritual perspective, where the spirit is sent (God so loved the world He sent His son) from the heavenly (spiritual) realm to the earthly (physical) realm below. He who sat as the son of the King, gave up his royal riches and rule and descended in humble service-- in poverty, in weakness and into chaos to show the way out.

He paid the price that prophets must pay-- with his life, to redeem captives not in hell as some conceive of the idea, but here on earth-- a comparative grave when held up in contrast to the eternal realm where dying is considered mere sleep.

So his three days 'in hell' from that perspective is no more and no less that his 30 years on earth, or his three years of ministry--- the span of time is not significant, but the concept itself is important.

There are other threads that look at the concept of hell itself. Scripture paints a picture that some confuse. The image of eternal torment in fire seems to be the one that sticks. Is that really a picture of hell? Well, not so much...

Jesus, in addressing the concept makes the association with 'Gehenna' --- which is more in line with the idea of the city dump, but more to the point- a specific valley known infamously as a place where child sacrifice had been conducted-- parents offering up their children through fire to Molech (the tophet).

To broaden the concept even further- consider his words here concerning this place of burning>>

“I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener. He takes away every branch that does not bear fruit in me. He prunes every branch that bears fruit so that it will bear more fruit. You are clean already because of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me—and I in him—bears much fruit because apart from me you can accomplish nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up; and such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire and are burned up. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want, and it will be done for you. My Father is honored by this, that you bear much fruit and show that you are my disciples.


The concept is one of being 'burned up' or destroyed by fire- as in once and for all, not forever burning as in being tormented endlessly. The fire burns forever, and whatever 'branch' is pruned (cut off) and thrown in the ever burning fire-- is destroyed. This is the second death and it is spiritual and forever. The first death is physical and he considers it but a temporary condition.... like sleeping.
 

Adam

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Every person has in them a soul, given to them by God. This can't be destroyed ever because it is part of God and is perfect even in its imperfection - or to phrase that differently - is on the perfect path, guided by the will of God, which makes no mistakes, and the path leads to perfection, therefore, wherever we are, is exactly where we need to be. What is removed from us is the dirt we pick up on our boots along the journey, the idea of ourselves as separate beings, the sins and desires we have, that is thrown into the smelter's furnace along with the rest of us, to refine us via the purifying fires of penance, to remove the valueless dross so only the pure gold of the soul remains.
 

Mr E

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Every person has in them a soul, given to them by God. This can't be destroyed ever because it is part of God and is perfect even in its imperfection - or to phrase that differently - is on the perfect path, guided by the will of God, which makes no mistakes, and the path leads to perfection, therefore, wherever we are, is exactly where we need to be. What is removed from us is the dirt we pick up on our boots along the journey, the idea of ourselves as separate beings, the sins and desires we have, that is thrown into the smelter's furnace along with the rest of us, to refine us via the purifying fires of penance, to remove the valueless dross so only the pure gold of the soul remains.

That's not quite what scripture teaches.

Many people have a problem with the concept, so you are not alone in your thinking by any means. Most often, they just have trouble getting their heads around the idea of a just and merciful and loving God destroying His creation. The mental work-around is some version of what you propose above and there is some biblical support for the idea in general, if not the specifics as you lay out.

Yet Jesus did teach specifically on the subject as I pointed to-- You are the branches, he said. And the branches that bear no fruit really are cut off and thrown to the fire to meet the end that we ourselves well know-- just throw another log on the fire and it burns away to ash. It is consumed.

It's not because God hates the branch that it is cut off and destroyed. It's simply that it has no purpose in Him, because it isn't bearing fruit. That is the ONE purpose of the vine-- that it's branches bear fruit for HIS enjoyment, -that is His will--

It's not any sort of ill-will toward any branch. It's His love of the vine, that motivates the seasonal pruning, and it's the uselessness of everything cut off that brings it's own destruction. Once set to the fire, there is no coming back. The redemptive story is one of -rescuing FROM the fire, before destruction. That's the gospel. That though you are daily being consumed-- there is escape offered. You don't have to live as consumers being consumed. You can be transformed from fruitless pursuits to fruitful. You can change your fate and avoid that final fire.

He tells a parable of a fruitless tree....

Then Jesus told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it and found none. So he said to the worker who tended the vineyard, ‘For three years now, I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, and each time I inspect it I find none. Cut it down! Why should it continue to deplete the soil?’ But the worker answered him, ‘Sir, leave it alone this year too, until I dig around it and put fertilizer on it. Then if it bears fruit next year, very well, but if not, you can cut it down.’”
 

Mr E

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The idea of lives before birth, and lives after death is in fact biblical. People toss around terms like "eternal life" or "everlasting life" without giving those words a moment of consideration. They are viewed as rewards in the 'afterlife' like we will inherit a life that doesn't end in some spiritual sense and yet scripture mentions other ideas such as the eternal spirit of God entering us at birth marking the beginning of a living soul. We are also told that after the first (physical) death our spirit returns to God and that those who overcome the challenges of this earthly existence are weighed in the balance and divided into categories of those who remain and those who are cut off. And then what? Well, those who are cut off are no more- their names erased from the book of life and their souls (the record of their existence) are destroyed. Those who remain perhaps return at some later time, after a period of rest or reward to enter once again as holy spirits of God (sons of God, seed of God) planted once again in human soil, that is seed for a new generation of humanity.

We are given some insight in the book of Revelation what these judgements might look like- and told some information regarding rewards and also warnings of consequences for those spirits who might have done better. You can read about it in the first few chapters of Revelation where seven angels (seven spirits of God sent to the whole world) are addressed one by one in judgment by Christ who is described as "he who has the seven spirits of God."

1 To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.
2 He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
3 To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.
4 ‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; and I will give him the morning star.
5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
7 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 

Mr E

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I'll focus on this third one-

To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.

What is that about? What's hidden manna, and a white stone with a secret new name got to do with anything?
 

Mr E

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The spirit of Elijah went into Elisha in a double portion. It didn't make Elisha Elijah, he remained himself. When John the baptist was born-- before he was born, while he was still in the womb, the holy spirit of God entered him and Jesus identifies that spirit that was given him as that same Elijah. Do spirits return? This story Jesus told says- yes.

Similarly, Moses, Elijah and Jesus with James, John and Peter offering "tents" to these spirit entities.... what is a tent? Scripture has many examples not the least of which is the description of the coming of two witnesses that the book of Revelation describes as spirits who stand before the Lord of the earth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. They've been here before.

But certainly- John the Baptist born in the spirit and power of Elijah is by far the greatest and best example. A white stone, with a new name written on it
 

Adam

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That's not quite what scripture teaches.
3 The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the Lord trieth the hearts.

You said yourself in another thread, olives produce oil by being pressed. Diamonds are produced under pressure. As we are being changed we must suffer because our old tastes are turned into ashes in our mouth; our old stupidities come back to embarass us; our old habits are shown to destroy us. The things we love are shown to be detestible; and the things we carelessly trampled on are shown to have been pearls of great value. It requires pain to grow.

Many people have a problem with the concept, so you are not alone in your thinking by any means. Most often, they just have trouble getting their heads around the idea of a just and merciful and loving God destroying His creation. The mental work-around is some version of what you propose above and there is some biblical support for the idea in general, if not the specifics as you lay out.
Indeed, God cannot permanently destroy His creation because that would imply God made a mistake. If God were making mistakes, God would not be God, you have found an impostor.

Everyone was made by God, from God, therefore, there is something in everyone worth saving.

Luke 15

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Nowhere does Jesus ever say that God gives up on a person. If God doesn't give up on a soul during this life, why would God give up on them in the next life? God, by nature, is all-benevolent. Punishment doesn't come from God, it comes from being unable to see God.

Yet Jesus did teach specifically on the subject as I pointed to-- You are the branches, he said. And the branches that bear no fruit really are cut off and thrown to the fire to meet the end that we ourselves well know-- just throw another log on the fire and it burns away to ash. It is consumed.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The body of sin is destroyed... not just the physical body (though that is part of it) but the sin, the errors. The evil you leave behind, the good you keep.

If Jesus is the vine, you the branch, then Jesus cuts away the "you" to keep the "Jesus" that is in you.

John 3:30
He must increase, but I must decrease.

John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 

Enoch111

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We are told that Jesus 'descended into hell and led captives in his train' -- what does that mean?
Once you understand that the word "hell" should have been "Hades" (Hebrew Sheol) there will be no misunderstanding of that verse. Christ was in Hades for three days and three nights prior to His resurrection. This is the abode of departed souls and spirits.
 

Mr E

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The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the Lord trieth the hearts.

'The fire' whether the crucible or the furnace is for the refinement of our souls--- yes to remove impurities through trials. It's the same concept as the pressing, the crushing, the grinding, the pressures and the tribulations of THIS life that we must go through to produce anything of worth (the fruit) of labor. Fire, is always tied to the concept of judgment-- not necessarily punishment, but in determining worth. It's the same as that tree he spoke of. What is worthless, impure, fruitless is judged by Him to be so.... and it is burned away. Stop thinking in terms of those things that are cut off and destroyed and consider the perspective of what remains. The tree remains. The vine. The pure. The perfect. The worthy. The fruit. Everything else is stripped away. He speaks elsewhere of a sorting process...

Indeed, God cannot permanently destroy His creation because that would imply God made a mistake. If God were making mistakes, God would not be God, you have found an impostor.

God doesn't make mistakes. People do. Every branch is inherently able to bear fruit. The soil is worked and prepared for planting of the seed. And unless it dies and is buried in the ground it remains only a single seed.... what does that sound like? What on earth dies and gets put in soil- 6 feet under? But we are not the seed. The seed is spiritual. We are the soil that the seed gets buried in. The adam.


Nowhere does Jesus ever say that God gives up on a person. If God doesn't give up on a soul during this life, why would God give up on them in the next life? God, by nature, is all-benevolent. Punishment doesn't come from God, it comes from being unable to see God.

Nowhere? I just showed you exactly where. The fruitless branches are gathered up and thrown to the fire.


Perhaps it is the concept of 'the soul' that is the source of some confusion.
 

Adam

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Perhaps it is the concept of 'the soul' that is the source of some confusion.
I think this is it

I conceive of the "soul" as being made up of two parts: the consciousness, which comes from God. You might call it "the higher soul", the self without ego. This cannot be destroyed or changed. And then there are our perceptions, maybe called "the lower soul", which is us, as we experience the world and perceive ourselves and our relationship with the universe. This is constantly changing.

God, being unlimited, cannot be limited to being only unlimited, and must experience being limited as well. The lower soul is born knowing nothing and works its way up in consciousness. During the process of evolving itself, it tests every possibility and keeps everything it finds to be to its advantage. In the process, it finds many "sins", things which appear to be advantageous to one's contentment and fulfillment, but are actually harmful in the long term. The body of sin can maybe be thought of like dirt on a pair of glasses, which is slowly discarded over the course of our lives until we can see clearly. Enlightenment occurs when the lower soul is fully aligned with the higher soul.

So when we are said to be thrown into the outer darkness, the lake of fire, hell, etc. It is actually the process of that aligning of the lower soul to the higher soul by recognizing the mistakes it made in this life. This involves intense anguish caused by reflection.
 

Mr E

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I think this is it

I conceive of the "soul" as being made up of two parts: the consciousness, which comes from God. You might call it "the higher soul", the self without ego. This cannot be destroyed or changed. And then there are our perceptions, maybe called "the lower soul", which is us, as we experience the world and perceive ourselves and our relationship with the universe. This is constantly changing.

God, being unlimited, cannot be limited to being only unlimited, and must experience being limited as well. The lower soul is born knowing nothing and works its way up in consciousness. During the process of evolving itself, it tests every possibility and keeps everything it finds to be to its advantage. In the process, it finds many "sins", things which appear to be advantageous to one's contentment and fulfillment, but are actually harmful in the long term. The body of sin can maybe be thought of like dirt on a pair of glasses, which is slowly discarded over the course of our lives until we can see clearly. Enlightenment occurs when the lower soul is fully aligned with the higher soul.

So when we are said to be thrown into the outer darkness, the lake of fire, hell, etc. It is actually the process of that aligning of the lower soul to the higher soul by recognizing the mistakes it made in this life. This involves intense anguish caused by reflection.

Kind of.

What you might call 'the lower soul' I would refer to simply as the soul. It begins with consciousness (born knowing nothing) and gains knowledge for a lifetime. In fact-- you could interchange the terms your 'soul' and your 'life' without diminishing either one. It's kind of like a photo album, or memory book of all your life experiences... a record of everything you've ever done, every thought you've ever had.... like if you were Truman, star of your own show and everything was captured from birth until the day you died.

It's sort of like the nut, in the shell. The outer husk is your physical self... the nut is the life inside. The substance, essence and valuable part.

Beyond that physical existence and the soul experience that lives and matures inside that outer shell, there exists a duality that is apart from the physical man and his life. There is the physical- a vessel (physical body) and the record of his journey through life (human soul) and these two exist as one on the earthly plane.

And then there is the spirit. From the perspective of the spiritual realm- people are thought of, and referred to over and over in all the parables in agrarian terms. You are a tree. You are a plant. You produce fruit. The birds of the air nest and rest in you. You are a container. You are a vessel, a jar, a tent, a house. All of these terms refer to that YOU that is the physical you that consists of your body and soul. Your spirit, is a different animal altogether. And that's how the spirit is described in scripture. Like a lamb, like a lion, like a dove..... always with animal attributes that are descriptive of the particular spirit and it's purpose or personality if you will-- different expressions at different times. So then, the spiritual "man" descends "like a" ---- (fill in the blank) and it expresses certain attributes of spirit that are manifest on earth as it is in heaven. Reality above, likeness below.

Of course, the spirit is not an animal at all. These are expressive terms. Neither are people merely 'houses' or rooms or temples for the Holy (set apart) spirit that is sent to lead and to guide and to abide in us. I'm just trying to make it make sense. Like a reflection in a mirror-- things get a little reversed. The mirror image is a likeness, but never a wholeness. The reflection looks like you, but it isn't all of you. You can't perceive of your soul by only looking in a mirror. You only see a representation. The spiritual man is like this as well. You can't perceive of the fullness, by only looking at the reflection-- the reflection is just a surface image and not the whole man.

The best example I can offer is that image of a horse. It's used by prophets frequently as the idea of a rider on a horse-- and from the spiritual perspective the rider is not a physical man-- it's a spiritual man, as these things are seen in spirit. It's the rider who is the messenger (angel/spirit) and he rides 'a horse' directing him as with bit and bridle to the degree that the horse will comply to his promptings. Above, it's this man on a horse... below, it's a horse on a man--- that animal attribute being a powerful, swift, carrier of the message, or workhorse or warhorse.... depending on what is being expressed to and impressed upon a physical man.

Jesus most famously began his ministry acknowledging this very idea. He read from the scroll of Isaiah and declared for all to hear--

The spirit of the Lord, is upon me.

The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me,
because the LORD has chosen me.
He has commissioned me to encourage the poor,
to help the brokenhearted,
to decree the release of captives....



There is much more to all of this, but that's a healthy bite at the apple to start.
 
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Wrangler

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The danger is in assuming that everything is just what we think it is, and nothing more, or nothing other than what we think it is.
This is a matter of epistemology, the dry branch of philosophy dealing with the limits of knowledge.

Not everything is an assumption. Not everything is a matter of conception (what you think).

Sometimes information we have does not constitute knowledge, per se, but something to allocate a lower degree of confidence. One example is probability. Another example is assessing ambiguous information. For instance, someone says they just left and the GPS says it takes 1 hour to get to you.

Books are written about this. College level classes cover this topic.
 

Mr E

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This is a matter of epistemology, the dry branch of philosophy dealing with the limits of knowledge.

Not everything is an assumption. Not everything is a matter of conception (what you think).

Sometimes information we have does not constitute knowledge, per se, but something to allocate a lower degree of confidence. One example is probability. Another example is assessing ambiguous information. For instance, someone says they just left and the GPS says it takes 1 hour to get to you.

Books are written about this. College level classes cover this topic.

In 2017 1 kilogram of rice in China was going for US $0.50.

In 2018 that dropped to US $0.42

It dropped again in 2019 down to $0.39 per kilo.

In 2023, the approximate price range for China Rice is between US$ 0.39 and US$ 0.42 per kilogram
 

Adam

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Kind of.

What you might call 'the lower soul' I would refer to simply as the soul. It begins with consciousness (born knowing nothing) and gains knowledge for a lifetime. In fact-- you could interchange the terms your 'soul' and your 'life' without diminishing either one. It's kind of like a photo album, or memory book of all your life experiences... a record of everything you've ever done, every thought you've ever had.... like if you were Truman, star of your own show and everything was captured from birth until the day you died.
The lower soul is more like the "feeling" of a person, the moral balance and level of spiritual power and evolutionary progress. Jesus and I both have a connection to God, but I am not equal to Jesus, and I won't be in the next life, or the one after that. But when I die, even though I lose my memories, I won't lose that spiritual growth.

According to NDE's, when a person dies, their mind is vastly expanded, they are able to see and sense and intuit many things, and sometimes even forget who they are but they are still fundamentally themselves, they still look at themselves (from the third person oddly enough) and see a human body, and still think the same way as they did when alive.

The lower soul does persist between lives, and even chooses its own reincarnations. I have heard NDEs where people say that God is all loving and all forgiving, and in the presence of such love we have no choice but to experience unbounded love for everything in return, but with all our emotions and consciousness elevated so greatly, we also have an incredible sense of justice and duty. If we did wrong to others, we require of ourselves that we must suffer equally in return. As one person said, if you aren't willing to give away a million dollars, you won't be able to accept a million dollars.

An interesting thing some people said was, we can actually choose not to incarnate as humans either, and we can just live utopian lives but spiritual progress is at a snail's pace. It is like learning to donate to the poor, when everybody is rich; or like trying to learn to forgive enemies, when you have no enemies. People eventually become dissatisfied with their status and choose to incarnate into Earth with all its suffering in order to evolve.

It's sort of like the nut, in the shell. The outer husk is your physical self... the nut is the life inside. The substance, essence and valuable part.

Beyond that physical existence and the soul experience that lives and matures inside that outer shell, there exists a duality that is apart from the physical man and his life. There is the physical- a vessel (physical body) and the record of his journey through life (human soul) and these two exist as one on the earthly plane.

And then there is the spirit. From the perspective of the spiritual realm- people are thought of, and referred to over and over in all the parables in agrarian terms. You are a tree. You are a plant. You produce fruit. The birds of the air nest and rest in you. You are a container. You are a vessel, a jar, a tent, a house. All of these terms refer to that YOU that is the physical you that consists of your body and soul. Your spirit, is a different animal altogether. And that's how the spirit is described in scripture. Like a lamb, like a lion, like a dove..... always with animal attributes that are descriptive of the particular spirit and it's purpose or personality if you will-- different expressions at different times. So then, the spiritual "man" descends "like a" ---- (fill in the blank) and it expresses certain attributes of spirit that are manifest on earth as it is in heaven. Reality above, likeness below.
Interesting insight into the symbolism.

Regarding the spirit descending, you can also call it the third eye opening, or attaining enlightenment. But it is not really the spirit coming into you, but rather it is you achieving awareness of that spirit. The spirit is what animates you. There is only one being alive, and that is God, you are inside God's mind, all consciousness comes from God. The idea of the spirit coming into you is just another way of describing the sudden epiphany of this fact through whatever cultural lens you see it as. It is the feeling of connection with the universe.

Of course, the spirit is not an animal at all. These are expressive terms. Neither are people merely 'houses' or rooms or temples for the Holy (set apart) spirit that is sent to lead and to guide and to abide in us. I'm just trying to make it make sense. Like a reflection in a mirror-- things get a little reversed. The mirror image is a likeness, but never a wholeness. The reflection looks like you, but it isn't all of you. You can't perceive of your soul by only looking in a mirror. You only see a representation. The spiritual man is like this as well. You can't perceive of the fullness, by only looking at the reflection-- the reflection is just a surface image and not the whole man.

The best example I can offer is that image of a horse. It's used by prophets frequently as the idea of a rider on a horse-- and from the spiritual perspective the rider is not a physical man-- it's a spiritual man, as these things are seen in spirit. It's the rider who is the messenger (angel/spirit) and he rides 'a horse' directing him as with bit and bridle to the degree that the horse will comply to his promptings. Above, it's this man on a horse... below, it's a horse on a man--- that animal attribute being a powerful, swift, carrier of the message, or workhorse or warhorse.... depending on what is being expressed to and impressed upon a physical man.
Excellent insight again

I do agree with the principle of the spirit guiding a man, with the lower soul being like a horse, which either complies or kicks at the pricks. Though without the spirit, there is no reality inside of that being, the spirit is what makes it alive to begin with. The lower soul is what is being trained, to make a vessel for the spirit. The training process is why we are reincarnated to begin with, to make an effective vessel for the spirit. In a more cosmic sense, the goal of the lower soul is that it merges so seamlessly with the spirit, that the spirit is no longer bound by it and returns to unity with God unfettered.

Each soul is like a question in God's mind. "How does this unique being find its way to perfection". Our lives are the answer to that question. That is why destroying it, makes no sense and implies God made a mistake.

Jesus most famously began his ministry acknowledging this very idea. He read from the scroll of Isaiah and declared for all to hear--

The spirit of the Lord, is upon me.

The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me,
because the LORD has chosen me.
He has commissioned me to encourage the poor,
to help the brokenhearted,
to decree the release of captives....



There is much more to all of this, but that's a healthy bite at the apple to start.
I agree completely with your thesis, that the captives aren't captives from hell, but captives from that lower soul I described; Earth; reincarnation; the animal nature.

Excellent insight
 

Adam

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Luke 3
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

God's working on all of us, nobody gets destroyed forever, we just get smoothed out where we are rough.