To the only God our Savior

[David in NJ]

Jesus is the embodiment of God’s logos.



Jesus is the logos of the one God made flesh.



The one God of Jewish monotheism.

You still haven’t answered the question I asked. Are you not going to?

This answers your question(s):

Who does Zechariah chapter 12 speak of ???
a.) the FATHER
b.) the LORD
c.) the HOLY SPIRIT

Please choose the correct answer - Thank You

 

[Matthias]

This answers your question(s):

Who does Zechariah chapter 12 speak of ???
a.) the FATHER
b.) the LORD
c.) the HOLY SPIRIT

Please choose the correct answer - Thank You

The God of Jewish monotheism. The Messiah worships the God of Jewish monotheism, not the Trinity.

 

[Matthias]

It shouldn’t be necessary for me to say this but it is: Zechariah is a Jewish monotheist. He is a prophet of the God of Jewish monotheism.

Just like Isaiah, Zechariah doesn’t know anything about the Triune God or the doctrine of the Trinity.

These are the constraints of history.

 

[David in NJ]

The God of Jewish monotheism. The Messiah worships the God of Jewish monotheism, not the Trinity.

Which Elohim does Zechariah chapter speak of???

a.) the FATHER
b.) the LORD
c.) the HOLY SPIRIT

 

[Matthias]

Which Elohim does Zechariah chapter speak of???

a.) the FATHER
b.) the LORD
c.) the HOLY SPIRIT

The elohim of Jewish monotheism. The Messiah’s elohim.

The Messiah ascended to the elohim of Jewish monotheism, not to the Trinity.

 

[David in NJ]

The elohim of Jewish monotheism. The Messiah’s elohim.

The Messiah ascended to the elohim of Jewish monotheism, not to the Trinity.

Which Elohim is spoken of in Zechariah chapter 12???

There are THREE
Genesis = Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = 3
Gospel = The Word/Jesus will pray the FATHER for another Comforter, the Holy Spirit = 3
Ephesians = There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all = 3

 

[Matthias]

Which Elohim is spoken of in Zechariah chapter 12???

There are THREE
Genesis = Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = 3

Not in Jewish monotheism.

Gospel = The Word/Jesus will pray the FATHER for another Comforter, the Holy Spirit = 3
Ephesians = There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all = 3

Again, not in Jewish monotheism.

 

[David in NJ]

Not in Jewish monotheism.



Again, not in Jewish monotheism.

Then you are STUCK in the Jewish montheism that crucified the Lord of Glory and you desperately need to be set free.

This is where you will find Eternal Life = IAM the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru ME

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all = 3

 

[Matthias]

Then you are STUCK in the Jewish montheism that crucified the Lord of Glory and you desperately need to be set free.

I‘m “stuck” in the Jewish monotheism of the Bible. I’m “stuck” in the Jewish monotheism of the prophets. I’m “stuck” in the Jewish monotheism of the Messiah. I’m “stuck“ in the Jewish monotheism of the apostles. I’m “stuck“ in the Jewish monotheism of primitive Christianity.

I’m right where a Jewish monotheist who believes a fellow Jewish monotheist is the Messiah of the God of Jewish monotheism should be.

This is where you will find Eternal Life = IAM the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru ME

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all = 3

 

[Matthias]

Returning now to elohim.

”The plural form of Elohim has given rise to much discussion. The fanciful idea that it referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds a supporter among scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God.”

(Peloubet’s Bible Dictionary, “God”, p. 224)

P.S.

I’ve never looked deeply into the background of F.N. Peloubet before. All I knew about him is that he is a trinitarian. (I very seldom quote non-trinitarian sources.) The linked article, written by Fred Sanders (trinitarian), provides information about him. For those who are interested:

Peloubet's Notes - The Scriptorium Daily

Francis Nathan Peloubet (1831-March 27, 1920) decided the most strategic thing he could do as a pastor was to train Sunday School teachers how to teach the Bible to their students well. So he travelled and lectured, wrote books and articles about it, and networked

scriptoriumdaily.com

 

[Matthias]

I agree with the Apostles’s Creed.

And the Apostles’ Creed agrees with the prophet Malachi, a Jewish monotheist. (All of the prophets of God are Jewish monotheists, including “the prophet like Moses”.)

”Do we not all have one Father? Has not the one God created us all?”

(Malachi 2:10)

This is the dogma of Jewish monotheism.

We must always remember what Gregory of Nyssa said about the Jewish dogma being destroyed by trinitarianism. I call upon all of my readers - trinitarian and non-trinitarian alike - to share it widely.

 

[talons]

Well , I did not make it clear in my post . If you were before The Son and The Father individually , both not present at the same time .

I see. It wouldn’t alter the way I would handle it. Together or apart, I would worship both. The only one whom I would worship as God would be the Father.

My worship would be all out for either the Son or The Father if presented to me individually , is One due as much worship as the other , yes I can't see it any other way from me .

I know Jesus is who he says he is in the Bible , the Son of God for he is my savior . I did take up my cross and follow after Him .
I know the Holy Spirit is as exactly as described in the Bible . Gifts in evidence .
I know God must be who He says He is as I see creation and Jesus testified of Him .

Does this make me Trinitarian ? I have no idea .

Am I between what you think @Matthias and the Trinitarian thought ?

 

[Matthias]

My worship would be all out for either the Son or The Father if presented to me individually , is One due as much worship as the other , yes I can't see it any other way from me .

I know Jesus is who he says he is in the Bible , the Son of God for he is my savior . I did take up my cross and follow after Him .
I know the Holy Spirit is as exactly as described in the Bible . Gifts in evidence .
I know God must be who He says He is as I see creation and Jesus testified of Him .

Does this make me Trinitarian ? I have no idea .

Am I between what you think @Matthias and the Trinitarian thought ?

I would have to know a little more about the details before I could say for sure. It sounds like you probably believe the Father and the Son are co-equal and co-eternal. If that’s the case, you would at least be binitarian (two persons in one God). It’s not clear to me from what you’ve written if you believe the Holy Spirit is also co-equal and co-eternal.

Your comment takes my mind back to AD 380 and the uncertainty that existed in the Church about the Holy Spirit. The Council of Nicaea in 325 hadn’t defined who or what the Holy Spirit is. The Council of Constantinople in 381 amended the Nicene Creed to address and settle the issue.

AD 381 is the historical date that every trinitarian should have circled.

From Philip Schaff’s History of The Christian Church:

“Even among adherents of the Nicene orthodoxy an uncertainty still for a time prevailed respecting the doctrine of the third person of the Holy Trinity. Some held the Spirit to be an impersonal power or attribute of God; others, at farthest, would not give beyond the expressions of the Scriptures.”

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH*

That’s what came to mind when I read your post.

Schaff continues:

“Gregory of Nazianzen, who for his own part believed and taught the consubstantiality of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son, so late as 380 made the remarkable concession: ‘Of the wise among us, some consider the Holy Ghost an influence, others a creature, others God himself, and again others know not what to decide, from reverence, as they say, for the Holy Scripture, which declare nothing exact in the case. For this reason they waver between worshipping and not worshipping the Holy Ghost, and strike a middle course, which is in fact, a bad one.’”

Bold is mine.

If we were back in 380, which description of the Holy Spirit given by Gregory would fit with your belief?

 

[talons]

It sounds like you probably believe the Father and the Son are co-equal and co-eternal.

I have not seen anything in the bible or outside the bible that would cause me to be 100% sure of this . It is above my pay grade to say .
Bottom line would it make any difference to the way I serve and worship , no .

It’s not clear to me from what you’ve written if you believe the Holy Spirit is also co-equal and co-eternal.

I believe the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit so yes , eternal , not the Son's Spirit , Jesus prayed the Father would give us another comforter . There are two Comforters as we can see in these verses .

John 14:16 Context​

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

If we were back in 380, which description of the Holy Spirit given by Gregory would fit with your belief?

This .

and again others know not what to decide, from reverence, as they say, for the Holy Scripture, which declare nothing exact in the case.

I can't say I have ever worshipped the Holy Spirit . But yes I know the Holy Spirit is the comforter from experience more than once .

One night after an encounter on a forum online with a person that left me wondering if they were a person or a demon . I was sitting in my usual spot outside in the darkness to start my prayer time . I had been there a minute of two when I heard this awful wet snarl over my shoulder , it did not sound like any animal I have ever heard . But there was no fear on my part because in the middle or right before the snarl the Holy Spirit said " That is demonic ." There was absolutely no normal fight or flight response or the hair standing up on the back of my neck . The demon could not touch me but they were NOT happy . Remember this verse .
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 

[Matthias]

I have not seen anything in the bible or outside the bible that would cause me to be 100% sure of this . It is above my pay grade to say .
Bottom line would it make any difference to the way I serve and worship , no .

I believe the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit so yes , eternal , not the Son's Spirit , Jesus prayed the Father would give us another comforter . There are two Comforters as we can see in these verses .

John 14:16 Context​

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


This .

I can't say I have ever worshipped the Holy Spirit . But yes I know the Holy Spirit is the comforter from experience more than once .

One night after an encounter on a forum online with a person that left me wondering if they were a person or a demon . I was sitting in my usual spot outside in the darkness to start my prayer time . I had been there a minute of two when I heard this awful wet snarl over my shoulder , it did not sound like any animal I have ever heard . But there was no fear on my part because in the middle or right before the snarl the Holy Spirit said " That is demonic ." There was absolutely no normal fight or flight response or the hair standing up on the back of my neck . The demon could not touch me but they were NOT happy . Remember this verse .
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Thanks.

Nicaea AD 325 -> you’re in.

Constantinople AD 381 -> you’re out.

Those who don’t worship the Holy Spirit aren’t trinitarian.

 

[Bee5]

There is One God and He has several "roles"/jobs/responsibilities/names

A person can be a grandfather, a father, a son, a farmer all at the same time , but are one person in different roles

Isaiah 9:6 tell us all the roles of God, of father, son, counselor

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Jesus is God walking in a flesh body on earth. The Father role is in Heaven, Jesus role was on earth at the same time .. different dimensions.

There is One Throne.. One King.. One Lord

The "role" of Father and the "role" of Son as Jesus are in Heaven as Jesus ascended

The Holy Spirit is God's Mind, power, intellect, authority, positive thoughts

To every positive there is a negative and that is Lucifer trying to take over as God and steal His identity. "Antichrist" means instead of Christ. Lucifer gets kicked out of Heaven and pretends to be Jesus returned. But Jesus does not return until the last trumpet which is the 7th trumpet after the fake "jesus" is here first pretending to be the true Jesus.

 

[David in NJ]

I have not seen anything in the bible or outside the bible that would cause me to be 100% sure of this . It is above my pay grade to say .
Bottom line would it make any difference to the way I serve and worship , no .

I believe the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit so yes , eternal , not the Son's Spirit , Jesus prayed the Father would give us another comforter . There are two Comforters as we can see in these verses .

John 14:16 Context​

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


This .

I can't say I have ever worshipped the Holy Spirit . But yes I know the Holy Spirit is the comforter from experience more than once .

One night after an encounter on a forum online with a person that left me wondering if they were a person or a demon . I was sitting in my usual spot outside in the darkness to start my prayer time . I had been there a minute of two when I heard this awful wet snarl over my shoulder , it did not sound like any animal I have ever heard . But there was no fear on my part because in the middle or right before the snarl the Holy Spirit said " That is demonic ." There was absolutely no normal fight or flight response or the hair standing up on the back of my neck . The demon could not touch me but they were NOT happy . Remember this verse .
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

I have not seen anything in the bible or outside the bible that would cause me to be 100% sure of this

Genesis has irrevocable evidence as does the Gospel and Revelation

 

[Matthias]

There is One God and He has several "roles"/jobs/responsibilities/names

A person can be a grandfather, a father, a son, a farmer all at the same time , but are one person in different roles

Isaiah 9:6 tell us all the roles of God, of father, son, counselor

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Jesus is God walking in a flesh body on earth. The Father role is in Heaven, Jesus role was on earth at the same time .. different dimensions.

There is One Throne.. One King.. One Lord

The "role" of Father and the "role" of Son as Jesus are in Heaven as Jesus ascended

The Holy Spirit is God's Mind, power, intellect, authority, positive thoughts

To every positive there is a negative and that is Lucifer trying to take over as God and steal His identity. "Antichrist" means instead of Christ. Lucifer gets kicked out of Heaven and pretends to be Jesus returned. But Jesus does not return until the last trumpet which is the 7th trumpet after the fake "jesus" is here first pretending to be the true Jesus.

Welcome to the forum.

This a good example of a form of unitarianism that is incompatible with Jewish monotheism. I appreciate your contribution to the thread.

 

[Bee5]

Matthias,
I dont know what you mean by "unitarian"??.. Don't put any labels on me. I am not a "unitarian" if it seems they (Unitarians) think that Jesus was a man inspired by God. Because Jesus IS God ..walking in a flesh body. Same . Just in different dimensions. Father "role" in Heaven, Son "role" on earth in a flesh body.

I think I made it plain that God is ONE and He has several "roles/offices" but is ONE God. Anything other than that is idolatry. No labels please as this can cause confusion.

There are "true" christians followers of the one true God, and there are confused deceived christians putting labels out there on God as being 3 separate divine individuals instead of One God with different "roles/offices/names/jobs/responsibilities".

 

[Matthias]

Matthias,
I dont know what you mean by "unitarian"??.. Don't put any labels on

You used a unitarian argument in your post.

I am not a "unitarian" if it seems they (Unitarians) think that Jesus was a man inspired by God.

Some do, most don’t. We have to know what kind of unitarian we’re speaking with.

Because Jesus IS God ..walking in a flesh body. Same . Just in different dimensions. Father "role" in Heaven, Son "role" on earth in a flesh body.

I think I made it plain that God is ONE and He has several "roles/offices" but is ONE God. Anything other than that is idolatry. No labels please as this can cause confusion.

There are "true" christians followers of the one true God, and there are confused deceived christians putting labels out there on God as being 3 separate divine individuals instead of One God with different "roles/offices/names/jobs/responsibilities".