Tongues?

[Wakka]

There are four different functions in the gift of tongues: Tongues for the unbelieverActs Chapter 2, the holy spirit speaks to unbelievers through us. Tongues for personal edification The Holy Spirit fixes our spirit, edifies ourselves. Tongues for interpretationThe Holy Spirit has things to tell the church. Tongues in deep intercession groaning.I'm still learning this one. It's in Romans. >.>I've learned so much just studying this topic.

 

[n2thelight]

[email protected] have several questions but I will address a few at a time.First of all do you believe that true called preachers speak as God gives them the words to say? Are you saying that Satan and his demon are not here now?Are you saying that the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Cor. is a learned language? If so why do you need the Holy Spirit if it can be learned by anyone?I have more questions, but this is enough for now.
Yes, I do believe that true called preachers are led by the Spirit.No satan is not here now.Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."The gift is the ability to teach in that language,that is the Holy Spirit guiding you,however when the Holy Spirit speaks through you and you were in a room with lets say 20 people who spoke different languages,they would all understand what was said in their exact language,with no need for an interpreter,in on of my recent post I showed with scripture when this event will happen again.How can you say that what is being spoken in churches today is of the Hioly Soirit when no one understands.What is important in speaking with the tongues of the Holy Spirit is that everybody understood everything that was spoken. There was no confusion, or strange sounding mutterings, and the subject that was spoken was given to all individuals with equal understanding no matter what race, or tongue they spoke in, for it was understood in the exact dialect of that individual.

 

[n2thelight]

Bottom line,if someone is speaking in tongues,and says it is of the HolySpirit,I should understand every word.Can someone please show me in scripture where tongues was spoken,and noone understood.To me its more common sense than anything,it would serve no purpose for the HolySpirit to speak through you and no one understands..Whats the point?

 

[Wakka]

(n2thelight;48335)
Bottom line,if someone is speaking in tongues,and says it is of the HolySpirit,I should understand every word.Can someone please show me in scripture where tongues was spoken,and noone understood.To me its more common sense than anything,it would serve no purpose for the HolySpirit to speak through you and no one understands..Whats the point?
When we pray alone in our closets. When there is no one around but ourselves alone.1 Cor. 14:14: "If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I shall pray with the spirit and I shall pray with the mind. I shall sing with the spirit and I shall sing with the mind."When praying in tongues, a person cannot understand what he is praying. But Paul still felt that he should pray and sing "with the spirit" (in tongues), as much as he did with his mind (in a known language).

 

[n2thelight]

I Corinthians 14:10 "There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification."Lets take a look at the word "signification", and in the text it is # 880 in the Greek dictionary. "aphanos, af-o-nos; voiceless, mute, by choice without meaning; dumb." So lets now see what this verse is really saying. "There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is dumb and without meaning." Every language in the world makes common sense to the user of that tongue. Each word in the languages of the world is a sign of something that gives meaning to the one using that word. If every word means something and has a value, then don't blow hot air. I Corinthians 14:11 "Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me."Paul is saying, if I can't speak another man's language, I am looked on as a barbarian to that man. And if that man speaks to me in his native tongue and I don't understand him, then that person is a barbarian to me. "Barbarian" in the Greek as used here is a "foreigner". You can't understand him and he cannot understand you, you might as well be speaking to the wall. Are you starting to get the picture? If you are going to teach the Scripture, then either know the language, or get a interpreter that understands completely what you are trying to say. I Corinthians 14:12 "Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church."Paul is saying that it is nice that you want to get the Word of God out to these foreigners, however see to it that everything that you say is in the language that will edify and build up the body of Christ that you are speaking to. Without an interpreter anything you say is nothing but ignorance. You simply can't go to a Spanish speaking church and teach in English or it become nothing but Babel. We are not talking about what many call tongues, for that is not what happened on Pentecost day. For on Pentecost day everyone heard and understood clearly every word in their native tongue all at the same time. That is what is called the "cloven tongue", and that was the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. I Corinthians 14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."Let him that speaks in an unnatural language pray that what he says will be interpreted properly. Before you go to speak to foreigners, pray that God will give you the understanding of that language before you go. If you go without this preparation, you are wasting your time. I Corinthians 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."If you pray in a language that your mind doesn't understand, then of what benefit is your prayer. You uttered words that mean nothing, and have created nothing but noise. When you pray to the Father, know exactly who you are praying to and for what purpose. However if you are just muttering words and sounds that have no meaning, your prayer is in vain. In short, you have to be able to communicate, before people know what you are saying. Remember that this chapter is dealing with teaching those that are foreigners to you, and those that do not speak your language. The ability to communicate is a gift from God. I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."When you pray you must be in tune with the Holy Spirit, and your mind must have the understanding of what you are doing. Paul is saying that when he prays in the Spirit, or sings songs to the Lord, he will do it in the tongue or language that gives him understanding of what he is praying and singing. This is just common sense, for you use the language that you know and are accustomed with, when you pray, sing, teach or talk to others. In this way you will be fruitful in what you are doing. I Corinthians 14:16 "Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say "Amen" at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayeth?"When you are speaking in English and the rest of the non-English speaking people have no idea of your thoughts, they simply will not know when it is time to say "Amen". It is hard to understand why anyone cannot understand this chapter and what Paul is saying, with just a little effort. Paul is telling us that if we cannot communicate with another person to were they can understand what we have to say, then just don't say anything. I Corinthians 14:17 "For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified."If you are praying and give thanks in the presence of foreigners, then they have not gained on thing from your prayer. In fact they have no idea of what your even talking about. I Corinthians 14:18 "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:"Again Paul is referring to the many languages that he spoke. Paul was a Roman, and spoke Latin, and as a Jew he was trained in the Hebrew, Chaldee and the Greek. His father came from Tarsus which is in Turkey of today, and that gave him another tongue, so we see that Paul was fluid in many languages through his home and training.

 

[setfree]

Wakka...For the most part I agree completly with your post...I have been on several threads about tongues and never convinced anyone....on the other hand before I believed, no one could convince me-the more some one talk to me about tongues the more determined I got that they did not exist....IT WAS NOT UNTIL THE HOLY SPIRIT TAUGHT ME THAT I RECIEVED THIS TRUTH.....I believe in it now, I walk in it now, even though as you said we only understand in part...I am still learning....But the journey in walking and learning from my Lord still amazes me...people that do not believe can not take what God has given me away.

 

[cronnie36]

(medicalmatt;47789)
Ok, maybe this has already been talked to death in the past, but I'm curious what everyone's different thoughts on modern speaking in tongues are. Biblical basis please? I'm curious, and always willing to learn if I am wrong about something. And I know this is often a subject that is near and dear to people's hearts, so please...be nice, try to keep an open mind, try not to get too defensive, and keep it friendly!
According to the Bible speaking in tongue is a good thing for the man who does it but profits no one listening. We should focus more energy on the gift of prophesy, and pray for charity always because it is of all importance in order to bear spiritual fruit. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.I'm not sure what to make of these modern day guys speaking in tongues, but the Bible doesn't seem to play it up like alot of these guys. If you've got time or are interested you can look at this video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309655344938122063. Texe Marrs seems to have hit on something here and while some say making judgments is a no-no I say use righteous judgment and so did Jesus Christ. We only have one life to get this right in we don't have time for lies and nonsense do we?

 

[medicalmatt]

Ok, I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly:You're saying "speaking in tongues" is the unintelligible spiritual language between our spirits and the Holy Spirit, a gift given to all believers just as surely as grace is a gift to all believers, right?You're saying "diversity of tongues" is a gift of being able to speak in a human language you have not studied before, used to preach/edify etc, only given to certain people, right?IF I a understanding you correctly, can you tell me which verses on tongues is referring to which phenomenon? I appreciate it.By the way, I point you to the End Time Question thread to show you that I am open to learning and willing to change my doctrinal position, if I am convinced I am wrong

 

[cronnie36]

(medicalmatt;48381)
Ok, I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly:You're saying "speaking in tongues" is the unintelligible spiritual language between our spirits and the Holy Spirit, a gift given to all believers just as surely as grace is a gift to all believers, right?
Every believer does not receive the gift of speaking in tongues. Some receive other gifts. I would love to speak in tongues for my sake, but I do well to have spiritual wisdom and spiritual discernment. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for your salvation.

 

[Christina]

There is no such thing as two separate gifts of the spirit of Speaking unknown tongues the Word unknow was added by men it was not part of manuscripts. . This is getting way to far from scripture And this is a Bible study site. There is one gift of tongues it is natural languages of men to follow Gods command to preach the Gospel around the World that's what the gifts were given for to start the church. The tongues of today are not this gift. It was never taught by the apostles nor Jesus Christ it not even exist until around 1900 and It is a man made doctrine. This is a religious doctrine Not Scripture! Now if its your religion thats fine I do not know what it is you speak and its not for me to decide but this is a bible study site and this unknown babble is not the gift and its not what was given on Pentecost Day Its is not in the Bible not because I say but because the Language of the Bible directly translates to Language/Dialects of other Nations Pentecost was a miracle and the evidence of it was that it was understood by all this is not the tongue of today. Im not telling anyone what your religious belief should be or how you should pray Im telling you this is not written in scripture.Everyone has had a chance to get there say on this subject.But we are not going to get father away from scripture by now saying there is two tongues. In closing I would caution everyone be very careful with this doctrine as can Evil masquerades as light and many in history have been fooled by these things. God wants you to know what you say to him. History of unknown Tongues Because tongue-speaking comes without conscious effort and cannot be understood, it has often been confused for divine intervention in religion. This was true for ancient paganism. Ecstatic utterances were used in the Greek oracles and in the ancient mystery religions. Even today in Rhodesia there is a sect known as the Apostles' Church which combines certain elements of Christianity with the traditional pagan practices. Tongue speaking is a part of their ceremony. Spiritualists use the tongue-speaking phenomenon in their claim to communicate with the dead. Mormons have always had tongue speaking as a part of their religious expression. It is thought for them to be a confirmation of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and other documents which came from Joseph Smith. The most common expression of tongue speaking until recent years was in Pentecostalism which arose around 1900 and developed into a number of denominations. In the early 1960's neo- Pentecostalism began in Van Nuys, California, and has spread rapidly through the traditional existing religious organizations. It has become very popular, and has divided a number of Protestant churches. The fact that the tongue-speaking experience is found in false and contradictory religions would indicate that its source is not from God but is a human experience confused for divine intervention. The fact that the same experience is known in all religions, ancient and modern, Christian and pagan, and sometimes outside the religious experience altogether would indicate that its source is not from God. The fact that it can be learned and imitated would indicate that it is not a miracle. The New Testament gift of tongues is a miracle and consists of speaking in human languages that the speaker, had not known or learned by natural means. Contemporary tongue speaking must not be confused with the New Testament gift of tongues. One is a human phenomenon; the other a divine miracle. One is common to all religions, ancient and modern; the other is unique to the church in the first century. One is irrational, ecstatic utterances; the other is human language. One can be imitated and learned; the other is a miracle from God. There is nothing wrong with the phenomenon of giving forth ecstatic utterances,if your faith allows it but it is error when it is confused with the New Testament gift of tongues. Ecstatic, automatic speech can bring forth a release of tension and can be therapeutic, but when it is substituted for rational, religious expression, it is a delusion. Paul was may have been talking about such a phenomenons when he wrote in I Corinthians 12:2, about pagans, "You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the dumb idols, however you were led." John was no doubt speaking of counterfeits of miracles when he wrote in I John 4:1, "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they be from God." How can one do this without understanding? To compare against his Words. J. Hurt, Steve Rudd

 

[Christina]

Compare for YourselfTongues of Today are not the same as the BiblesFirst century........................................... ......... Today Spoke a known language. Acts 2:8.......................Today don't even claim to use known language. Were understood. Acts 2:6; I Cor. 14:19......... ....Don't claim to understand today. Confirmed the word. Acts 10:46;Heb. 2:3-4.............don't accept confirmed word today. Spoke by turn. I Cor. 14:27.............. ....................All speak together today in Mass confusion. No interpreter? - Silence. I Cor. 14:28 .......................not interpreted today. Sign to unbelievers. I Cor. 14:22.............................Used today for excitement and prayer. Spirit subject to speaker. I Cor. 14:26-31..................... getting a revelation. Spoke to profit the church I Cor. 14:6 .......................... profit self today. Prayed for interpretation. I Cor. 14:13........................ Today - pray for tongue speaking. Spoke to instruct. I Cor.14:13....................................- no instruction. Spoke to benefit hearers. I Cor. 14:9............................. Benefit in glory of speaker. Interpret so unlearned understand.; 1 Cor. 14:16........... .....Interpretation not done today. No accusation of madness. I Cor. 14:23..............................Today confusion No confusion allowed. I Cor. 14:33................. ......................Today, causes in confusion. Holy Spirit Baptism audible. No mistake in knowing H. S. came upon them. Acts 2:2............ No audiablity today. Purpose of the gifts Bible............................................. .........................Modern To confirm god's word........................................ word confirms gifts Bring About Unity Of Faith.................................. .........DivisionMiracles .................................................. ......................common place Bible............................................. ..................... modern Person Healed Known By All Acts 3:10.............................. Person Often Unknown Miracle Known By Miracle (Obvious)......................... Miracle Accepted By Personal Testimony Even Enemies Accepted Acts 4:16..................... Highly Questionable, Always Internal and unseen Real Human Language Acts 2:8................................. No language Max Of 3 In Church 1 Cor 14:27.......................................More Than 3 Speak (visitors view as madness) Each Must Speak In Turn 14:27..........................................Man y Speak Simultaneously If No Interpreter Keep Silent 14:28........................................Rarel y Any "Interpreter" Only One Interpretation Possible.......................................... .. Often Interpretations Vary Emphasis On Public Demonstration..................................... ...... Emphasis On Private Devotion Considered a gift of lesser importance 14:5.....................................Stressed As A Sign Of Spirituality A Sign To Unbelievers 14:22............................................. ................A Sign To Believers