Tongues?

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medicalmatt

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When I spoke in tongues I got drunk in the spirit (it was hilarious). You stumble around, but you are fully aware of your surroundings.
Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but I also don't see ANY Biblical basis for this type of being "drunk in the Spirit." Being drunk in the Spirit is contrasted by Paul with beind drunk with wine, in which is dissipation. The purpose here is to say, don't let yourself be controlled and directed by alcohol, but by the Holy Spirit. We are to be "sober-minded," and God is not the author of confusion. Stumbling around doesn't seem to me (note, that I said "seem"---I'm not claiming Biblical authority for this statement!) like a working of God. What would the purpose of this be, anyway? SOUNDS (note the disclaimer) like a physical response due to hightened emotional sensitivity, and being overjoyed with the magnificence of God. I believe things like being drunk in the Spirit or bodyslammed etc are not direct workings of the Holy Spirit, but rather emotional/physical responses. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I remain open-minded.
 

setfree

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I, too, was brought up very legalistic. I have within the last year or so, really begun to question and search for answers, and to have a a faith that is deep, genuine and passionate. I will always be deeply logical, and I always question the validity of my emotion (for the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it?) and always confirm what I hear and feel by the Word. Still, I am questioning many firmly helf beliefs and interpretations that I have always stood by. When I first began this, I felt as you did..a spiritually confused mess! I have had many evening of crying out to God for answers. I, with trepidation, share with you a poem I wrote a few months ago. It's incredibly personal, but I feel led to share it.
Once I knew EverythingSo sure of myself.I’d read the whole BibleBy the time I was twelve.Passionless, cold,I knew my theology.The 5 points of “TULIP”And no Halloween.Then I knew NothingMy world ripped apart.The veil cast asideA deep pain in my heart.I knew that nothingFrom my past could I trustThat all my preconceived notionsWere now worthless as dust.Does God choose us?Or do we choose Him?Can we choose to leave ChristWhenever we whim?Are devils among usAnd if so, what threat?Tell me now,What has Christ done with my debt?Just exactly how far is the East from the West?Now I know Something,The most basic of all.Jesus loves me, I know,No matter how much I fall.He hurts when I leave Him,And, true, it angers Him so.When I turn my back on HimSo I can go with the flow.But God’s mercy is deep,And God’s love is so strong,That He holds me when I weep,When I admit that I was wrong.Later I’ll know more Somethings,For that’s the nature of me.Always needing to know more.To solve the mystery.God’s depths are unfathomableI’ll never know the whole.But as long as I remember that first something,That’s really all there is to know.​
That poem is awsome! I pray that God answers all your searching. Search Him and everything else will be added. Thanks for sharing!
 

medicalmatt

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Thank you. I pray that, even if we end up totally disagreeing about the tongue issue, we will together proclaim that our God is great and good, and trust that He will show each of us where we are wrong, in His own time. As long as we continue to rely on Him, and test every notion according to His revealed Word as the ultimate authority, we are doing His will. I think what most upsets people who don't believe in modern-tongues, is the concern that emotion and whim (ie the heart, which is desperately evil!) will become the ultimate authority in the life of the tongue-believer, rather than testing everything against God's Word. As long as we can agree that He is Lord, and that His Word is truth, even if we don't understand it, I proudly stand beside you and call you my sibling in Christ. May God show us both where we may continue to learn, as we keep an open mind to His truth. Amen?
 

setfree

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Thank you. I pray that, even if we end up totally disagreeing about the tongue issue, we will together proclaim that our God is great and good, and trust that He will show each of us where we are wrong, in His own time. As long as we continue to rely on Him, and test every notion according to His revealed Word as the ultimate authority, we are doing His will. I think what most upsets people who don't believe in modern-tongues, is the concern that emotion and whim (ie the heart, which is desperately evil!) will become the ultimate authority in the life of the tongue-believer, rather than testing everything against God's Word. As long as we can agree that He is Lord, and that His Word is truth, even if we don't understand it, I proudly stand beside you and call you my sibling in Christ. May God show us both where we may continue to learn, as we keep an open mind to His truth. Amen?
Amen! You seem to have sweet, genuine spirit about you. I look forward to seeing where you stand on this issue, even if we disagree!
 

Wakka

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I wonder what, if any, Biblical basis you have for this statement? Or is this just relating your personal experience?
1 Corinthians 14:14 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. The Holy Spirit gives us utterance. We just use our vocal chords to portray the language. It is the Holy Spirit that brought it. If you can excuse all of the confusion, I'm trying the best I can.
 

Wakka

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Yes I have Wakka many times and never did I see anything even close to the gifts lies of men if one can truly heal why are they behind the pulpit asking for money instaed of at the childrens hospital ward ?? Its always the church in so and so place had a healing. I believe God can heal anyone but he doesnt need some preacher babbling unknown things God never spoke of. and you are right about the latter days but the gift never was anything but Natural languages to spread the word and thats what scripture says.
God sends ministers of faith the the four corners of the earth to spread His gospel and to encourage and teech those who do not have enough faith. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH FOR GOD TO DO MIRACLES THROUGH THEM.
 

Christina

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1 Corinthians 14:14 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. The Holy Spirit gives us utterance. We just use our vocal chords to portray the language. It is the Holy Spirit that brought it. If you can excuse all of the confusion, I'm trying the best I can.
Wakka why dont you understand that the word unknown was not there and even if you put it there it does not mean babbling, do you know chinese??Then its an unknown language to you. Thats all it means they spoke Greek and hebrew languages of other nations were not known to them. That is all it means.
 

Christina

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God sends ministers of faith the the four corners of the earth to spread His gospel and to encourage and teech those who do not have enough faith. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH FOR GOD TO DO MIRACLES THROUGH THEM.
Yes he does to preach the Word of God in the natural languages of men so that they will understand his prophecy in his book the promise of salvation in him and his second coming not babbel.Same argument the catholics use why they should confess to a priest instead of God its a non argument If someone has the gift of healing let them go out and use it at the local hospital. then Ill pay attention til then God does the healing not man any minister should be telling his flock how to gain that faith in God not stepping between man and his God.
 

setfree

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Yes he does to preach the Word of God in the natural languages of men so that they will understand his prophecy in his book the promise of salvation in him and his second coming not babbel.Same argument the catholics use why they should confess to a priest instead of God its a non argument If someone has the gift of healing let them go out and use it at the local hospital. then Ill pay attention til then God does the healing not man any minister should be telling his flock how to gain that faith in God not stepping between man and his God.
Did Jesus heal all the sick?
 

Christina

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No minister or man is Jesus and when I see a man heal leprosy I will believe God has given him the gift of healing
 

RaddSpencer

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Stumbling around doesn't seem to me (note, that I said "seem"---I'm not claiming Biblical authority for this statement!) like a working of God. What would the purpose of this be, anyway? SOUNDS (note the disclaimer) like a physical response due to hightened emotional sensitivity, and being overjoyed with the magnificence of God. I believe things like being drunk in the Spirit or bodyslammed etc are not direct workings of the Holy Spirit, but rather emotional/physical responses. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I remain open-minded.
I think you have made a reasonable statement. As for the purpose of stumbling around drunk in the Spirit --- well I got drunk in the Spirit after I spoke in tongues (so it was kind of the next thing in line so to speak).As for its "purpose", well, brother, God is my Father. My earthly father and I have a good time together (there are a lot of humorous jokes going back and forth all the time). Therefore, is it unreasonable for me to have a similar relationship with my heavenly Father? Speaking in tongues and getting drunk in the Spirit are to halves of a whole (for me). The whole purpose is to grow closer to God (specifically the Holy Spirit). (That is what Wakka has been saying for the last 3 pages).As for the speaking in tongues and drunkenness of the Holy Spirit -- maybe it is physical/emotional, and/or spiritual response. However, whatever it is, I know it was from Him, and to be honest, that is good enough for me. (I've spoken in tongues twice, the HS basically has to do it for you).BTW, being drunk in the Spirit is not like drinking alcohol. Your mind is clear, and you remember everything -- your body is delayed in its responses and you are VERY happy.However, who am I to stand in the way of the Holy Ghost? If He wants to use juggling and water-mellon smashing (or anything else) to bring people closer to Him, who am I to stand in His way? I tell you one thing, I will not (knowingly) get in the Holy Spirit's way and harm someone's personal relationship with God. If you think speaking in tongues will somehow harm your relationship with God, then don't do it.
 

setfree

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No minister or man is Jesus and when I see a man heal leprosy I will believe God has given him the gift of healing
Mark 16: 17-18 And these signs shall follow tem that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.Is this not the gift of healing?
 

Christina

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Yes, exactly I have given you that verse before but you ignored it when I used to show you where you were mistaken. These are the gifts of healing and the gift of natural languages that the apostles /disciples were given.What did they do start the church? spread Gods Word as commanded by God.Using the gifts given them to convince the people I dont see any minister claiming healing powers drinking poison because God has given them this gift. That is what bthe verse saysSo before they can lay on hands to heal let them first prove they have the gift by drinking poison all this verse does, as when I gave it to you before, is strengthen the case against your claims. Thats the problem when you try to claim the Word says what it doesn't say you keep running into more verse's you have to misinterpet to support the first false one. Let me ask you why must you guys keep this going with this you will never convince me or others that read what is written rather than follow men. Its just not written...... However if its your belief you will continue to believe it Please Stop trying to find your justification, by misinterpreting the Word. I have already said its your choice how you pray its none of my business So why don't we just drop it. I said I didnt want to debate this with Wakka and setfree you and I have been through it many times You know I'm going to debate you as long as keep trying to change the Word.
 

n2thelight

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This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and made available with written permission by http://www.theseason.orgThis chapter is one of the most mis-taught chapters from God's Word. To teach it as most people do would make me a lot more popular but as a teacher of God's Word I am compelled to teach this chapter, not to offend or defend anyone, but to teach it accurately as Paul wrote it. So open your mind to the Scriptures.I Corinthians 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."Remember from the last chapter we studied, "charity" is "love". If you don't have love in your heart, then you don't have anything. Love brings honest and hope, and it endureth all things in our caring for our people. Paul urges us to desire the spiritual gifts or things. Lets go to the Strong's Greek dictionary #4395 to understand what Paul is saying about "prophesy". "propheteuo, prof-ate-yoo'-o; from 4396, to fortell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office:"Did you get the meaning of this word "prophecy"? "to speak under inspiration", and to "fortell events" of prophecy that God has revealed to the prophets of old that are written down in His Word. It is to always speak under the divine guidance from the Word of God. It is to use your gift of God as a teacher of Gods Word, not to jabber from your own mind, but to reveal God's Word to others exactly as it is written from the manuscripts. There is going to be a time in the future when Act 2 will come, and men and woman alike will speak as the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Peter said that this is the time that Joel the prophet spoke of in Joel 2:28-32 when both men and women shall prophecy.Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see vision:"Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit."The book of Joel is prophesy of that time when Satan and his locust army of fallen angels will be cast onto the earth, for the time of the great deception. So this time of prophesying will come while they are here deceiving mankind. After that Locust army of fallen angels has passed, then prophesying will take place. Many clergy say today, "woman can't prophesy", however God says even the daughters will prophesy. This writing then, is written to those living in the final generation that is on earth just prior to the coming of the Lord, during that generation of "the parable of the fig tree". That generation started when the Jews [brother Judah with the Kenites] returned to reestablish their homeland and reclaim Jerusalem. That generation is now, and you are living in that generation. The one world system of the end times is here and now, and they control of all parts of your life is through their agencies or ten horns of power that flow from the United Nations. Joel 2:30 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke."Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call." The point that we should consider here is that we should judge no one, because this doesn't have to be a prophecy as most people consider "prophecy". Prophecy to foretell the future is only one of the parts, but simply to teach the Word of God under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit is also a form of the word "prophecy". So though love is essential to our Christian life, prophesy is another of the top gifts. I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.""Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired).""Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about. When we try to study the Bible for the truths within its pages, it is a must to have some reference to the original languages of Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek for that is the tongue or language that God's Word was written in. Translators have taken those foreign languages and tried to relate their meanings in English so that the common man could read the Word of God within his own home. This is why when we study the Word for ourselves is it important to have the Strong's numbered concordance and Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek numbered dictionaries right along with it so that we can understand exactly what God intended us to know. An example of this is above in the word, "tongues"; "glossa" in the Greek, and in the true translation "languages" in the English. So one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is to be able to learn another tongue or language than you were brought up with, so that you can teach someone who is not of your language. There are many neighborhoods that have their common language other than English right here in America. There are Spanish neighborhoods, Chinese, and so on, and if you were to go into those people and present the gospel in English, many of them simply would not understand what you are saying. The reason that it is saying that if you do go out and speak in a place where everyone is of another language then only God would understand; is that only God and the Spirit of God understands all languages. He caused the confusion into the languages at the tower of Babel, and when the true tongue of the Holy Spirit is spoken, it will be as it was at Pentecost. This tongue shall be spoken again when the Elect are brought up to give account of themselves, as recorded in Mark 13:11. When the Holy Spirit's tongue goes forth, every person around the world will listen to it and understand it at the same time and in the very dialect of their neighborhood. This is what is called the "cloven tongue". The "cloven tongue" needs no interpreter for it comes directly from the Holy Spirit. Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."The time that this shall happen is in our generation, just prior to the coming of the Lord. We are not to spend one moment thinking of this time, or in fear of what we should say, for at that moment the Holy Spirit will place within our minds the things that we should say. When the Holy Spirit speaks it will be through our mouths, but His Words. Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.""Cloven tongues" are many different languages, and the time it is spoken is when one filled with the Holy Spirit speaks. There will be no confusion to anyone as to what is said, for everyone that hears will understand in his or her own language. The Chinese, Spanish and English listeners could standing be side by side, and each would hear the words spoken in their native language. That is the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit. This is something entirely different than what Paul is speaking of here in I Corinthians 14. When the "cloven tongue" goes out in all directions it is understood with clarity no matter what language you are in. However here in I Corinthians 14 Paul was referring to one that was speaking in a language whereby the listeners did not understand what was being said to them. Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."This was the time of the feast of Pentecost, and the Jews came from all over the world to be in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost. Though they all probably spoke Hebrew, their native tongue was the tongue of the place where they resided in, and had their everyday conversations in. The other tongues are the languages where there can be no misunderstanding what is being said, for it is the tongue of their family and friends back home. There is nothing unknown about it to anyone, and when you hear that tongue, it is the evidence of the Holy Spirit within you, who are Spirit filled. Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."Even a child can understand that when the Spirit of God spoke here that every person, all the people understood. No matter where they were from in the world, they heard the words with clarity. This is what dumfounded them, for it had never happened before. This is why Peter reminded these devout Jews of what the prophet Joel spoke of back in the Old Testament writings. It was a sample of what would come about in the last generation just before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. It will be the time when the sons and daughters are going to be delivered up before the false messiah, Satan the Antichrist.Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?"Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? "These Jews not only heard in their on language but in the very dialect of the neighborhood that they were born. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. It is this tongue that will come upon those that are delivered up to fulfill those prophesies of Mark 13:11. So Paul in I Corinthians 14:2 is addressing something entirely different than what was spoken of in Acts 2. He is not addressing the speaking in the "cloven tongue", but he is saying that if you go out and try to speak and teach without the gift of languages, the ability to speak and understand the grammar of another language, that all you would be doing is causing confusion. Those foreigners listening to you would not even have enough knowledge to say "Amen", and know when you were finished. I Corinthians 14:3 "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto me to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."The only reason for your teaching and prophesying in the first place is to build men up in the faith, to exhort them to live a better life, and to give comfort where it is needed. The words that you are teaching are the Words of Almighty God. It is not something that you have made up, but words that come from His Word and given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Many today feel that they should be letting themselves go and speak and allowing strange uttering. They think that is the voice of the Holy Spirit, but it is quite the contrary. When the Holy Spirit speaks, there is no confusion in any mind present, but just plain common sense. I Corinthians 14:4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifeth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."If I went to a foreign land and taught this chapter in English, where no one knows the English language, the only one that would be built up by what I said would be me. However, if I went to a church that spoke English and taught in the English, the entire church would be edified or built up by those same words. If you are truly teaching the Word of God to the body of Christ and speaking in their language, then they would gain from what you would say. I Corinthians 14:5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."Paul is saying that he wished that all of his brethren there in Corinth could speak in as many languages as I can speak. However, I would rather that you would be gifted teachers in the Word of God, then to speak in many languages and not be able to teach. In other words, if someone that teaches under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit desires to teach in another tongue, do it with the same emotion, devotion and love that you would in your native tongue. If you cannot do this, then find an interpreter that is also filled with the Spirit of God, and have him interpret so that the church may receive the edifying when they hear you. The whole point that Paul is saying here is that if you can't be understood, then you will not be doing much good. It is just plain common sense.So what is the subject here, what are you saying? The subject is stated in verse twelve also, for it is taking for the gifts of teachering, evangelist, faith, and all the other gifts that take forth the gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost. However you can have all of these gifts, but as we saw in I Corinthians 13:2; "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all the mysteries and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."Without love you will not be a true carrier of God's Word, and the people that you are trying to teach will see right through you. So now Paul will continue on, after he has considered "charity" the taking for of the gifts to reach lost souls. That is the great commission, and the subject. The thought is to communicate with human beings, children of God around the World that do not speak in the same language that you speak, so that they may hear the beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ. I Corinthians 14:6 "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"Paul is saying that if I come to you with great revelations and knowledge speaking in a in a language that that you do not understand, what will it profit you? Of course if you cannot understand what is being said in that foreign tongue, it will be nothing more than a turkey call. You wouldn't know if it was prophesying, doctrine, or knowledge.I Corinthians 14:7 "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"The "distinction in the sounds" is what we call notes of a song. You have heard the old voice lessons, do, ra me, fa, so, la, te, do; the purpose of each note is to give a distinct sound to each note. Each of these notes have a meaning and is a sign to the singer of the sound that is to be made at that instant. The scales give out a message to be followed, and when you combine all the notes in the order and time sequence required, it makes for a beautiful song. It then means something to the listener. However when the cat runs over the keys on a piano a sound is still made, only the noise is out of order with no sense or meaning. Instead of being pleasing, it becomes irritating. A lot of times when people speak out of order, not thinking of what they are trying to say, you have the same results. The Christian world today tries to be so spiritual as they mimic others around them, only the results are the same as the cat on the piano keys; full of confusion and out of order. This is why it is important to teach and study God's Word as it is written, so that we can give order to our lives from God's Word. When you try to mock what mankind has established as the language of the Spirit of God and it is not real, then you become mocking the Holy Spirit and it becomes man's traditions. So what Paul is trying to tell us is that if you don't talk in the language that your listeners understand, you are just like the piano giving out a bunch of strange noises. I Corinthians 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"In the military, the trumpet is used for everything from getting up in the morning, to the raising and lowering of the flag. When the troops are ready to charge into battle there is also a distinct sound of the trumpet that prepares the troops for battle. The notes are sharp, and clear with a definite sound. There is no confusion in a soldier's ear that it is time to get up, nor is there any confusion to the raising of the flag. When the trumpet is sounded, you know exactly what to do, and you had better be sharp in getting to attention. It is no different today than it was in Paul's day. If you have thousands of men ready to do battle and the trumpet sound is nothing but a mixture of many notes without any conformity, the troops won't know whether to charge, go to bed, or salute the flag. Intelligent people that are in tune with God's Word, know the instruction of His Spirit when it is given. I Corinthians 14:9 "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."It is no different in your teaching, except in your communication you speak the language that the listeners understand, it will be nothing but confusion. Why would you ever go and teach if there is no one to listen to you. All you are doing is blowing wind into the air. If you try to use the turkey gobble that many churches use today, and call it of God, there is no clarity in the sounds that are muttered, but only confusion to the listener. That so called "speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with the fourteenth chapter of First Corinthians. There will be an awesome price to pay for mocking the Holy Spirit, and claiming something came from God's Spirit, when it did not; and the Greek text makes this so clear. Every teacher must deal with this barrier of the "glossa", or the foreign language. In that the Holy Word of God is written in Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek, the teacher must continually be going to the text, and the dictionary to be able to relate the meaning of the verses in a simple manner for understanding.
 

RaddSpencer

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(n2thelight;48180)
It is no different in your teaching, except in your communication you speak the language that the listeners understand, it will be nothing but confusion. Why would you ever go and teach if there is no one to listen to you. All you are doing is blowing wind into the air. If you try to use the turkey gobble that many churches use today, and call it of God, there is no clarity in the sounds that are muttered, but only confusion to the listener. That so called "speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with the fourteenth chapter of First Corinthians. There will be an awesome price to pay for mocking the Holy Spirit, and claiming something came from God's Spirit, when it did not;
Thank you for your in-depth explanation. Thank you very much for showing your fellow brothers respect in your explanation. I still disagree with you, but I appreciate your desire to love your brother.The only part that I didn't like is highlighted above. To be honest brother, I couldn't disagree with you more. You say that the Holy Spirit doesn't like to be given credit for works which He hasn't done. However, I think the opposite is the case."Then there was brought to Him a demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb, and He healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons." 25And knowing their thoughts He said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26"And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27"And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. 28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come," Matt. 12:22-32 The Holy Spirit was doing work and the Pharisees attributed the His work with the devil or with demons.To be honest brother. I would rather give the Holy Spirit credit if He didn't do something rather than NOT giving Him credit when He did do something. And I would never associate His work with Satan or anything negative in general.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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RaddSpencerYou are welcome,now let me ask you a question,have you ever heard someone speak in tongues that was then interpreted?
 

RaddSpencer

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(n2thelight;48183)
RaddSpencerYou are welcome,now let me ask you a question,have you ever heard someone speak in tongues that was then interpreted?
I have to admit, I haven't seen the gift of tongues very often. (I don't visit charismatic churches that often to be honest -- except when I am in Hawaii). Most of the times, no, (everyone was speaking in tongues simultaneously in most cases).However, there was one woman who spoke in tongues and then the woman next to her interpreted (this was in Tennessee).so I guess the number is 1 out of 5 times.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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RaddSpencerMay I ask,if you can remember, what was the imessage that was interpreted?I would also like to point out that,when one speaks in the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit no interpreter will be needed,this will happen again when we are delivered up to satan.Let me show you the next time true tongues will be spokenMark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."Mark 13:10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]." When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through themActs 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"Joel 2:28-29 "And it will come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, you old men shall dream dreams, you young men shall see visions; 29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit."After the locust army has passed, then prophesying will take place. Many clergy say today "women can't prophesy". God say's, even the daughter's will prophecy. This my friend is addressed to a certain time, and generation, and like it or not, the time is here and now, and this generation started in 1948.The One World System is here. It has a One World Children's Organization, One world Environmental System, World Court with no justice, World Banking System, World Army (United Nations), World Educational System, (take a look at your schools with No God), even a World Space program. And you say it isn't here? well rest assured it is here.Joel 2: 30-31-32 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come". 32. "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."Joel 2:30 was also written in Acts Chapter two. Peter is telling you exactly what Joel is talking about here. It's called "Cloven" tongue in the Greek; meaning it goes out in every direction. What does that mean? It means it's spoken and everyone understands what is spoken; regardless what language you speak. The "Cloven Tongue" needs no interpreter.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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n2thelight, thank you for your message. However, I still stand firm in my belief. I've been in prayer groups that when they prayed (in tongues) you could really feel the Holy Spirit. I know that God can use a person's ability to pray in tongues to speak to another person a few rows away in their own language. It's just the Holy Spirit that gives the words, we just utter it. What makes you think that the Holy Spirit doesn't speak to God on our behalf? That when a person prays in a tongue by themselves, the Holy Spirit is actually speaking to God.
 

RaddSpencer

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Mar 28, 2008
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RaddSpencerMay I ask,if you can remember, what was the imessage that was interpreted?I would also like to point out that,when one speaks in the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit no interpreter will be needed,this will happen again when we are delivered up to satan.Let me show you the next time true tongues will be spoken
I have no idea, its been 6-8 years. It was something positive, I remember that, but I don't remember the exact translation.
 
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