Traditional vs Subjective Christianity
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Without the video, my instinct is traditional vs subjective is not the write question.
I would say common vs personal faith.
Our common salvation is by the faith of Jesus delivered to us by His apostles written in the Scriptures. (Jude 3)
The faith of Jesus (Gal 2:16)(Rev 14:12) is the gift we receive to be saved by grace: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. (Eph 2:8)
'That not of ourselves' is not referring to our works, but to the faith through which we are saved by grace: the faith of Jesus that we all must have to be saved.
That one faith (Eph 4:5) is the faith that we all must obey (Rom 1:5), and is written in Scripture for us all read and know and do.
Personal faith; however, is not The Faith. Personal faith has to do with matter of personal conscience and judgment within the faith of Christ: that is the area called the liberty of the law of Christ. (James 1:25)
That is where we as servants of Christ that keep His commandments become friends of God by a personal walk with Him: we all keep His commandments to be His servants, but only those who personally walk with Him in private affairs and matter of conscience go on as Paul said to perfection, to become a friend of God as Abraham was. It was not when Abraham kept God's commandments, that he was called a friend of God, but rather when he acted upon a personal and private matter at God's word of promise: to lay with Sarah past age in order to produce a child or promise.
I.e. though all things are lawful, yet not all things are expedient, and we decide for ourselves what is or is not expedient for us, though lawful. That is where we turn to our personal Lord and Savior Jesus as friend, who will always be there with us as a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
So, if any has a personal decision to make in life, which Scripture does not specifically command nor exhort nor condemn, then we can always ask our friend Jesus what He wants to do, or what He wants us to do together as friends.
James referred to this personal relationship vs the common salvation of us all, but exhorting believers who have business matters, to do so if the Lord will (James 4:15): i.e. if the Lord will do so with us, rather than to make decisions entirely on our own, without 'consulting' with Jesus as friend and partner in all things in life.
And it is blurring the line between common and personal faith that occurs by falsely teaching one's personal decisions and judgments on lawful matters to be The Faith for all, or as law for all. That is where Paul calls it judging another man's liberty by their conscience (1 Cor 10:29), or Peter refers to it as preaching one's own mind in matters of liberty as Scriptural rule for all to obey. (2 Peter 1:20)
The other edge of that sword is trying to prematurely impose one's personal liberty and faith upon the babe of weaker conscience, such as with meats and drink.
The mature grown believer and friend of God knows distinctly between Scriptural matters of the common faith of Jesus, and personal matters of one's own faith with Jesus. They know the difference between establishing the law of Christ and so fulfilling His righteousness, and confirming one's own walk with Him as friend.
I.e. aside from sins and trespasses of the law of God written in Scripture, they know how to live and let live within the gospel and body of Christ.
I would say common vs personal faith.
Our common salvation is by the faith of Jesus delivered to us by His apostles written in the Scriptures. (Jude 3)
The faith of Jesus (Gal 2:16)(Rev 14:12) is the gift we receive to be saved by grace: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. (Eph 2:8)
'That not of ourselves' is not referring to our works, but to the faith through which we are saved by grace: the faith of Jesus that we all must have to be saved.
That one faith (Eph 4:5) is the faith that we all must obey (Rom 1:5), and is written in Scripture for us all read and know and do.
Personal faith; however, is not The Faith. Personal faith has to do with matter of personal conscience and judgment within the faith of Christ: that is the area called the liberty of the law of Christ. (James 1:25)
That is where we as servants of Christ that keep His commandments become friends of God by a personal walk with Him: we all keep His commandments to be His servants, but only those who personally walk with Him in private affairs and matter of conscience go on as Paul said to perfection, to become a friend of God as Abraham was. It was not when Abraham kept God's commandments, that he was called a friend of God, but rather when he acted upon a personal and private matter at God's word of promise: to lay with Sarah past age in order to produce a child or promise.
I.e. though all things are lawful, yet not all things are expedient, and we decide for ourselves what is or is not expedient for us, though lawful. That is where we turn to our personal Lord and Savior Jesus as friend, who will always be there with us as a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
So, if any has a personal decision to make in life, which Scripture does not specifically command nor exhort nor condemn, then we can always ask our friend Jesus what He wants to do, or what He wants us to do together as friends.
James referred to this personal relationship vs the common salvation of us all, but exhorting believers who have business matters, to do so if the Lord will (James 4:15): i.e. if the Lord will do so with us, rather than to make decisions entirely on our own, without 'consulting' with Jesus as friend and partner in all things in life.
And it is blurring the line between common and personal faith that occurs by falsely teaching one's personal decisions and judgments on lawful matters to be The Faith for all, or as law for all. That is where Paul calls it judging another man's liberty by their conscience (1 Cor 10:29), or Peter refers to it as preaching one's own mind in matters of liberty as Scriptural rule for all to obey. (2 Peter 1:20)
The other edge of that sword is trying to prematurely impose one's personal liberty and faith upon the babe of weaker conscience, such as with meats and drink.
The mature grown believer and friend of God knows distinctly between Scriptural matters of the common faith of Jesus, and personal matters of one's own faith with Jesus. They know the difference between establishing the law of Christ and so fulfilling His righteousness, and confirming one's own walk with Him as friend.
I.e. aside from sins and trespasses of the law of God written in Scripture, they know how to live and let live within the gospel and body of Christ.
Why would anyone of the truth waste any of their time
in their thoughts concerning this when they can dwell upon
wonderfulness of the awesome beauty of the eternal living God?
Is it because they have nothing better to do with there life?
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Both are fraught with error. This mans language about the Bible: "The bible contains truth" is dangerous! the bible is truth. we just get it wrong or haven't grown in our knowledge of the Word to fully understand something in its full context etc.etc.. Most of the things He argued are all subjective issues that individuals and even local assemblies have liberty to determine for themselves.
Anyone who name the name of Jesus as Savior should consider themselves a child of God way beofre they even associate their name with a particular sect of Christendom. all churches have errors, because all churches are filled with people.
Would you believe that think that Christian Love is fraught with error?
The subjective Christianity was is that 1st Corinthians 13; agape love by the spirit is above all things; to anyone view point.
Churches do have errors, and people make mistakes, that is natural.
But to put demands on others, I do believe that is wrong.
The subjective Christianity was is that 1st Corinthians 13; agape love by the spirit is above all things; to anyone view point.
Churches do have errors, and people make mistakes, that is natural.
But to put demands on others, I do believe that is wrong.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Agape love is objective and not subjective. It is not determined by external conditions.
As Christians we need to put demands on other believers. We are called to care for each other and to exhort and rebuke when one is in error doctrinally or in sin practically. The bible is filled with commands.
@Ronald Nolette In the end there is the perspective of what is Scriptural, right? one can be 'traditional' about Christianity and one can be 'subjective', but in the end what's really Scripture is what counts; I'm sure you would agree.
I agree in spirit with your clip. I believe he has it right. He believes that the basis, the gospel, as the objective truth, is the foundation. Upon it we as true believers are led by the Spirit as the speaker announced near the end. And based on his view, traditional demanding man-made doctrines are to be viewed with suspicion and skepticism. If the Spirit tell one to avoid them, then abide in the Spirit and depart from them, including denominational 'churches.'
Good clip with down to earth language.
Bless you,
APAK
Similar threads
