Transitioning from BELIEVING to KNOWING.

[VictoryinJesus]

h

Hallelujah! What you were given was the keys to the kingdom--first given to Peter in "knowing" that Jesus was the Christ.

Thank you!

Where that leaves us...is at the end of the reign of false teachers--though there are still many who linger, at that place where Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would lead us unto all truth, and the finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets. My asking the question here and now, is to bring to mind--to remember after all this time of delusion, just how it is that God advances with His revelations, and how He would surely finish with what was sealed until just before the end, as He does not change.

“Where that leaves us...is at the end of the reign of false teachers-“ same question. You don’t mean to say the voices of the prophets which were read every sabbath day were false? (Just clarifying what you meant as ‘the end of the reign of false teachers’.)
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

 

[ScottA]

“Where that leaves us...is at the end of the reign of false teachers-“ same question. You don’t mean to say the voices of the prophets which were read every sabbath day were false? (Just clarifying what you meant as ‘the end of the reign of false teachers’.)
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Oh, no, sorry, I can see how that might be taken wrong.

But no, rather that the false teachers among the church--they have had their time; and not that there are not still false teachers, but the tables have turned. Where have we heard this before? The gig is up, the Truth prevails, and we are now in a new time, a time of many fulfilled prophecies and promises. Mainly, this is the time of, the seals of restraint being taken out of the way, of time no longer, and of the mystery of God being finished as He declared to His servants the prophets--the transition from "believing" to "knowing."

 

[PS95]

I’m curious which were false prophets? Do you mean those men who claimed they could only interpret the scriptures for us, and never to question them? Is key in what you said “modern day prophets”?

The prophets in the bible like Jeremiah, Isaiah …were they true prophets? For example Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
I’m trying to clarify only…you didn’t mean those are false prophets but modern day prophets?

Hi VJ,
Good to see you.
By modern day, I was referring to people who are false teachers and false prophets today, in our present time. No, not only announcing only they can interpret the scriptures & you must obey them, but also in proclaiming future events in God's name which did not occur.

There is much more to it than even those thing above, but I will leave it here as there is no point on this forum.

? I made no inference to prophets like Isaiah & Jeremiah. I would never call them false.. I'm sorry if I caused you any confusion.

 

[Kokyu]

And He established a method of communication, of revelations, regarding all His plans. Which method every Christian--and certainly every Jew, should know.

But how many here can actually describe God's method of communication and revelation with humanity? Surely, the question has become like a survey of people on the street asked "Who is the first or present US president?", and nine out of ten don't know the answer; and you wonder why life is so messed up!

I'm not going to give the answer--I'm just not.

Well, prior to the establishment and completion of God's word, the Bible, there were a variety of means whereby God declared what He was going to do and what He wanted the recipients of His communications to do. God used visits from angels, visions, dreams, prophets, a burning bush, stone tablets, a disembodied hand writing on a wall, a talking donkey, even, to express His will to His creatures. God spoke to Elijah in a still, small voice from the mouth of the cave in which the prophet was hiding, and he led the people of Israel with a pillar of flame at night and pillar of cloud by day. God knocked Paul to the ground and blinded him and delivered Jonah to Nineveh in the belly of a great fish. And so on. When God wanted to communicate Himself to someone, He never failed to do so and they never failed to understand who it was who was communicating with them.

Today, however, God has given to us the revelation of Himself in His word, the Bible. It is complete, providing to us all we need to "live godly in Christ Jesus."

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be complete, fully-equipped for every good work.

Psalm 119:105
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

1 Peter 2:2
2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

In tandem with the Bible, and more vital, is the Person of the Holy Spirit, who teaches God's children the "deep things of God." Without his convicting, illuminating, enabling work in the hearts and minds of born-again believers, they would be like sheep without a shepherd, wandering into all sorts of foolishness, sin and destruction.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:13
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct him But we have the mind of Christ.

Together, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures provide to us all we need to know and understand of God's will and how to walk in His way.

 

[ScottA]

Well, prior to the establishment and completion of God's word, the Bible, there were a variety of means whereby God declared what He was going to do and what He wanted the recipients of His communications to do. God used visits from angels, visions, dreams, prophets, a burning bush, stone tablets, a disembodied hand writing on a wall, a talking donkey, even, to express His will to His creatures. God spoke to Elijah in a still, small voice from the mouth of the cave in which the prophet was hiding, and he led the people of Israel with a pillar of flame at night and pillar of cloud by day. God knocked Paul to the ground and blinded him and delivered Jonah to Nineveh in the belly of a great fish. And so on. When God wanted to communicate Himself to someone, He never failed to do so and they never failed to understand who it was who was communicating with them.

Today, however, God has given to us the revelation of Himself in His word, the Bible. It is complete, providing to us all we need to "live godly in Christ Jesus."

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be complete, fully-equipped for every good work.

Psalm 119:105
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

1 Peter 2:2
2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

In tandem with the Bible, and more vital, is the Person of the Holy Spirit, who teaches God's children the "deep things of God." Without his convicting, illuminating, enabling work in the hearts and minds of born-again believers, they would be like sheep without a shepherd, wandering into all sorts of foolishness, sin and destruction.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:13
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct him But we have the mind of Christ.

Together, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures provide to us all we need to know and understand of God's will and how to walk in His way.

That is a most excellent explanation!

However, what is missing presently in most people's understanding of all that, is how that all applies to those written portions of scripture that were sealed only to be revealed just before the end, namely a proper understanding of Daniel's prophecy, and the contents of the little book and what the seven thunders uttered revealed to John--and what we should actually expect--what that should actually look like. Most seem to assume that the scriptures as they were revealed, is it, and yet there are specific parts that could only be speculated (guessed at) until close to the end. It would seem that for the most part, the church has forgotten even how to expect to hear from God, and is happy to continually mull over those limited unsealed portions of the scriptures.

Anyway--thank you!

 

[FredVB]

I am not ashamed to call my faith: faith. I know to not presume knowledge where I did not have knowledge. I could be trading away my intellect doing so. Being open to learning more, and open enough to turn from mistakes is essential. Everyone can make mistakes and those are frequent enough, there should be awareness of it. Still, I am very sure of things, and most of all sure that all things that started in existence are from God, who started everything with creation. Argument against that is always with ignorant things being said, just as if those saying any of those things think those are from knowledge.

 

[ScottA]

I am not ashamed to call my faith: faith. I know to not presume knowledge where I did not have knowledge. I could be trading away my intellect doing so. Being open to learning more, and open enough to turn from mistakes is essential. Everyone can make mistakes and those are frequent enough, there should be awareness of it. Still, I am very sure of things, and most of all sure that all things that started in existence are from God, who started everything with creation. Argument against that is always with ignorant things being said, just as if those saying any of those things think those are from knowledge.

Such is the God-esteemed humility. Thank you!

The point of the thread is to highlight the plan of God to take us from sinful babes lacking any real knowledge--to being perfect as He is perfect. A transition is in order, and in fact should be expected, for it is a promise from God to be fulfilled.

But we seem to be stuck--stuck in a revolving door of "the elementary principles of Christ." So stuck that we have come from the promise and the joy of the loving arms of God's grace, to be just as guilting of "taking away the key of knowledge and hindering those who would enter in" in spite of us, as the Lawyers, Priests, and Pharisees, who got so stuck in the Law they crucified their promised Messiah. Which we have now repeated--only worse--for we have rejected Him in spirit, while preferring our religious practices. Practices. Practices for what?

We seem to have forgotten--forgotten that with His first coming, came the kingdom of heaven; and that His return was to be "soon", and that all the details He spoke of "must shortly take place." Which has not even been taught among the church for 2,000 years now.

 

[FredVB]

The most effective way for growth is surely coming to value God's will for us over anything else. The minimum to do for being saved will not be considered still, for that.

 

[talons]

It seems like a good time to ask the question:

What are God's main established method(s) of communication and revelation with us?​

How would you answer? It would be good to hear where people are at--what your understanding of God's method(s) actually are. This would appear to be an essential need for our moving forward from "believing" to "knowing" the things of God. Thank you in advance!

With me it has been dreams , words spoken to me and even visions , things said by others, reading the bible . Very humbling that God would bless me in this fashion . I believed there was a God from an early age and never doubted that but I did not become a born again follower of Christ until my early 20's .

 

[talons]

Other times, His Spirit has spoken to me while I am not studying, but going about day to day life, and I hear a verse clearly in my head that was not my thought, it interrupted my thoughts, and it clicks a teaching perfectly together- there is my answer.

The answer just seems to appear out of no where , yep the Holy Spirit at work !

There have been other times where it is clear that God speaks to me through another believer. 'It's not a coincidence that's for sure. He makes me know in my spirit. So my answer is by His Spirit.

Yes !

Thanks for sharing this .

 

[ScottA]

With me it has been dreams , words spoken to me and even visions , things said by others, reading the bible . Very humbling that God would bless me in this fashion . I believed there was a God from an early age and never doubted that but I did not become a born again follower of Christ until my early 20's .

That's awesome...as it is written, and should be. Life is quite exciting when that spirit light of God is on and shinning in our direction. Praise God!

 

[PS95]

The answer just seems to appear out of no where , yep the Holy Spirit at work !

Yes !

Thanks for sharing this .

A few years ago. my daughter was in labor with her first child. My son in law called and told me that she was having problems and the baby's heart rate was dropping. When I hung up- I began praying for my daughter and the baby fervently. As i was praying I said "please let my granddaughter be ok".. I realized what I just said, and told God that I was mistaken to ask that because I had no idea if it was a boy or a girl. My daughter chose not to know the sex. So, I kept praying and the same exact sentence came out of my mouth again. I was like... wait....what is wrong with me??
Before I could tell God I that misspoke again, I had a warmth come over me and with what I call a "knowing". All was ok and I had a grand daughter.. I broke out in laughter and praise.
I got the text about 5 mins later-- a healthy baby girl.

 

[ScottA]

The transition from believing to knowing, does not come before natural death, if we are not willing to follow Jesus into that portion, while we are still living in this world.

Faith is biblically defined as "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." However, to prefer to remain in hope and faith when summoned to press on, is lacking faith or even false faith. I say false, because who are we kidding if we get to the door of knowing, and do not enter in? That is fear--fear enough to turn away from God--which is not faith at all, but a work of no faith. Jesus referred to such a position, as, "Ye of little faith." Because that much is given. But then there is a choice to be made--between heaven and earth--and not being willing to press on into that unknow that Jesus Himself did enter into, saying [ultimately] "follow Me", is a chose of this world over all that He promised.

When things got scary (or strange, or weird) and Jesus began to explain what the kingdom of heaven "is like", He said things like "My flesh is food and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him."--"From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more." What did you think that historic precedent was all about--if not getting to the end of being comfortable in this world, and pressing on to actually follow Him where He was actually leading and going?

Well--that again is where we are. Only this time, instead of it being the end by which Jesus "finished" with Israel--it's our turn. We the Gentile Church, are now in the hot seat...and the message, is the same message. So...are you comfortable? That is not a good sign. Now is not the time to get use to things as they have been for so long, and stop following where He went, and would have us "follow."

 

[NotTheRock]

...everyone seems to be set in their ways.

You frequently make this remark. You know that you have it all figured out and cannot understand why others don't know it too. Perhaps it is that God has blessed you with the ability to know while the rest of us can only hope to one day possess your extraordinary, God-given, discernment. Can you please pray for the rest of us to obtain your level of understanding? Thank you!

 

[ScottA]

You frequently make this remark. You know that you have it all figured out and cannot understand why others don't know it too. Perhaps it is that God has blessed you with the ability to know while the rest of us can only hope to one day possess your extraordinary, God-given, discernment. Can you please pray for the rest of us to obtain your level of understanding? Thank you!

While my part when fully known would seem great, God is no respecter of persons--we are all special in His eyes and each has an equally important part. In fact, I know that I am the least of those that might have been, and their death was gain. I am under no illusion as to the reality of whom God chooses for particular tasks--in each choice it should be obvious that only God could be the Source, and not the person.

So, yes, I pray always that what comes is of Him and not me, and that all who are His be blessed, which is His promise.