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Trinity or Three Offices

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Unorthodox Christian, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Many People uses Man made Creeds and dogmas to prove the deity of our Lord, God. Some say he is Three distinct personalities, The Father is no the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the father. Although Co-equal, one God, they work in three distinct personalities, thus we get the dogma of Trinity. I pulled these out my notes to explain to a Jehovah witness, who could care less what the Hebrew or Greek meant, my explanation was in Vain. So before I start, if there was such a Trinity. The Holy Spirit impregnates Mariam(Mary), therefore making the Holy Spirit the Father. Well my notes explain it all, but not in it's entirety. in Hebrew Jesus CHrist name is YahShua HaMashiach, or Yeshua HaMashiach. Do you know what Y'shua means? Yahweh's Salvation, Yahweh is Salvation, Yahweh is my salvation. So in essense, when we use the name or worship the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, his son, we worship Yahweh.John 1:1, John 1:14, in conjunction with 1st John 5:7 clearly states, Jesus Christ is the Word of Elohim, YaHWeH, and the Father, Son, and Ruach HaKodesh(Holy SPirit) are one.In John 20:28 Jesus appears to Thomas after the resurrection, and when Thomas Sees this is Y'shua(Yahweh's Salvation) risen, he SAYS, "MY LORD AND MY GOD."Remember Matthew 28:19 where Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize in the Name of THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Now notice, IN THE NAME IS SINGULAR, and let us move forward to Acts 2:38, ten days after Jesus Christ commanded them to baptize IN THE NAME, Peter baptizes in the Name of Jesus Christ. Either the bible is contradicting Christ here, or it's telling us Peter did what Jesus Christ told him. Remember YAHWEH is the name of the Tetragrammaton, of the Father, Sonship, and Holy Ghost. But also remember Y'SHUA is YAHWEH's Salvation, which is Why Peter received a revelation that you baptize in the Lord Jesus Christ' Name. Adonai Y'shua HaMashiach. The is only One Lord, One True King, and One True God, The Son is one with the Father, not a unity of three, not a trinity of three distinct personalities but one substance, three offices or manifestations.Tell me why the disciples fell and worshipped Jesus when they saw him raised from the dead? Why do you think Jesus told the Sanhedrine in the Gospel of John, "Before Abraham, I AM." I AM! I AM! He was saying he was YHWH. They wanted to kill him because he said he was YHWH.Do you understand the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I'm not good at bible reference, but I do know my scripture. Remember Jesus said I will not leave you comfortless, but I shall send you the Comforter, HIS SPIRIT, RUACH HAKODESH. The Holy Spirit is called the Comforter many many times in the New Testament. No one knew what the Baptism of the Holy Ghost was because Jesus had not risen. He could not pour out his Spirit until he ascended to the Right hand of Jehovah. When he fulfilled the ascension, on the day of Pentocost, the Spirit of God himself came down upon the disciples and they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Do you know who's spirit that WAS LORD JESUS CHRIST. Why do you think John the Baptist said, I baptize you with water, but he baptizes you with Fire With the Holy Ghost. Because the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ Jesus.John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.notice the Bold my brother? ANOTHER comforter. Jesus Christ is the Comforter in Flesh, BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE COMFORTER IN SPIRIT!Now Look at Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghose had given commandments unto the apostles whom he Chosen.Jesus Chose his Disciples through the Holy Spirit, See how interchangable God is? He works through Father Son, and Holy Ghost. Trinitarians will say Abba, THe Father is not the Son, the Son is the Not father, and The Holy spirit is not both. God is all of It, Jesus is All of it. When trinitarians bring up this argument it causes confusion, GOD IS NOT A GOD of confusion, should any trinitarian try to confuse you REMEMBER Colossians 2:9 and Matthew 1:18, If God the Father is the FATHER of Y'shua HaMashiach, why does it say Mary had the Child of the Holy Ghost? Because the Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Christ is the same spirit of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. God BLess HaShem!John 14: Even the Spirit of Truth(Holy Spirit of God)' whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neitehr knoweth him: but you know him' for HE DWELLETH WITH YOU(JESUS CHRIST), and shall be in you.John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME(JESUS CHRIST Matthew 28:19; Acts 2:38; Colossians 2:9, Isaiah 9:6), he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.Bold Emphasis mine: The Holy Spirit will he send in the Name of Jesus Christ, so that The Spirit of God may give us remembrance of What he has said.John 15: I AM the true vine, and my Father is the Husbandman.Again with strong EMPHASIS, SAYS I AM!Jesus is the Living Word of Yahweh, He is Yahweh's Word made Flesh, Yahweh Dwelling in Y'shua HaMashiach Ben Elohim, Yahweh's Salvation the Anointed One Son of the True God. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are worshipped THROUGH THE SON. John 12:44 JESUS CRIED AND SAID, hE THAT BELIEVES ON ME, BELIEVES NOT ON ME, BUT HE THAT SENT ME. THE FATHER GOD.Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead(1st John 5:7)
     
  2. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    I always use Rev 1:17,18 for JWs. I am 1st and last, I am the living one, I was dead and behold I am alive. And I hold the keys to hades
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I rather use the word Godhead, cause it is in the bible THREE times.Jag
     
  4. Terral

    Terral New Member

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    Hi Unorthodox Christian (UC):This Trinity topic is one that many people believe they have right, when in truth Denominationalism has sold the world a counterfeit that confuses God and The Word by mixing together Their identities. Please allow me to point out a few differences in our views on your Trinity topic:
    Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and “God” raised Him from the dead. Romans 10:9. Many people do not know the difference between Jesus Christ the “Son of God” (Revelation 2:18) and “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6) “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8) who sent His Only Begotten Son into the world to save sinners (1 Timothy 1:15-16). Scripture says,
    The equation looks something like this with > meaning “greater than.”God > Christ Jesus > Men.Since Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” between God and men, then obviously you have no license to move the “Son of God” into the “one God” position. Just how many “God’s” are you teaching from Scripture? There is only “One True God” and He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Period!
    Jesus Christ is addressing the “Only True God” and speaking of Himself in the ‘third person’ as “Jesus Christ whom You (God) have sent,” so why do many people make every attempt to pass God’s Deity around to others like mashed potatoes at dinner?? MANY people saw Jesus Christ the Son of God, but how many have seen God? NONE!
    Jesus Christ the “Son of God” is seen by the sons of men, but “NO ONE has seen God at ANY TIME.”
    What ‘some say’ about God ‘and’ His Only Begotten Son has nothing to do with anything, because our Trinity Doctrine should be based upon God’s Living Word apart from the dogma of men. Right? Of course. You are confusing the ‘three witnesses’ of ‘The Word’ (Christ = F+S+HS = The Word = Matthew 28:19) with the ‘three witnesses’ of “The Almighty” (God = God To Come + God Who Is + God Who Was = Revelation 1:8) who raised His Only Begotten Son from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Both The Almighty ‘and’ The Word have exactly one spirit witness Prophet (God To Come, The Father) and exactly one water witness Priest (God Who Was, The Holy Spirit) and exactly one blood witness King (God Who Is, The Son) respectively and “the three are into the One” (1 John 5:8) establishing the pattern for all the three witness mystery sets of Scripture (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/60a.jpg , http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/60b.jpg). God is “One” and The Word is “One,” but ‘both’ are interacting with men within this broken ‘triune’ universe (heavens, heaven and earth) ‘through’ Their three witnesses of spirit, water and blood.[​IMG]God’s three witnesses appear in the Holy of Holies, beyond the Second Veil, on the left side of Figure 1 and atop Figure 2 joined into the “One” like your own spirit (spirit witness), soul (blood witness) and body (water witness) making up a triune ‘man.’ “Christ Jesus” is the “one Mediator BETWEEN God and men” comprised of the Father (spirit witness), Son (blood witness) and the Holy Spirit (water witness) having NOTHING to do with any ‘personalities’ at all. Attempting to remove “Christ Jesus” (F+S+HS) from the “one Mediator” position to place the “Son of God” into the “one God” position is commonly known to the sons of men as “IDOLATRY.”
    Your explanation confuses God (The Almighty) ‘and’ His Only Begotten Son (The Word) in English, so the Hebrew and Greek really have nothing to do with anything.
    The Holy Spirit what??? No sir. Scripture says,
    Scripture confirms that the Son of God was conceived of the HOLY SPIRIT:
    God borrowed NOTHING from Joseph or Mary for the “Holy Child” process where the Father (spirit witness) overshadowed the Holy Spirit (water witness) within the womb of the woman, which explains how the “Son of God” knew “NO SIN” (2 Corinthians 5:21). If God used one particle of DNA from Mary for this Holy Operation, between the Father and the Holy Spirit, then Mary’s sin from Adam would be passed to our Lord Jesus Christ and He would be in as much need of “A Savior” as every other man. Jesus Christ disqualifies Himself from even being a man born of woman, saying,
    If Jesus Christ was born of women (NOT), then He just taught that John the Baptist is greater than He!
    Since my Bible is written in English, then Jesus Christ’s name is Jesus Christ. Period. Since your New Testament is written in Greek, then any Hebrew translations of Jesus Christ’s name is irrelevant to this Trinity debate.
    No sir. We worship GOD (The Almighty) ‘through’ His Only Begotten Son (Christ = The Word = F+S+HS) the “one Mediator between God and men.” Period!
    The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three witnesses of “The Word” our Lord Jesus Christ the “Son of God.”There is no such thing as any “Word of Elohim” in your Bible, because the NT is definitely written IN GREEK from left to right AND the OT is written IN HEBREW from right to left. Your mishmash of Hebrew/Greek “YEEHAW,” Ruach HaKodesh gymnastics above is also very confusing and irrelevant to this Trinity Debate; unless your objective is to muddy the water with man-made dogma. You are assuming the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three witnesses of “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8), when in fact they are the three witnesses of “The Word” and UC does not appear to know the difference . . .
    So what? Thomas is giving glory TO GOD for raising His Only Begotten Son from the dead! The Gospel writer uses this evidence to prove beyond all doubt that Jesus Christ is the “SON OF GOD.”
    Do you know the ‘name’ of the “Son of God” sent into the world by “His God and Father” to save sinners? Would the name of the Son of God be our Lord Jesus Christ or something else??? Jesus Christ is still the Lord AND God still raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) on the third day. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
    UC is going to transform the “Son of God” (The Word) into “His God and Father” (The Almighty) over a Greek term being singular? :0) Jesus Christ just gave His disciples the three witnesses of THE WORD that testify about the “Son of God” sent into the world to save sinners BY GOD. Peter baptizes in the name of the Father (John’s Baptism = Acts 8:12 , Acts 19:1-4) AND in the name of the Son (our Lord Jesus Christ = Acts 8:16 , Acts 19:5) AND lays hands on those obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom,” so they can receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17 , Acts 19:6). The “Gospel of the Kingdom” includes three distinct and separate ‘baptisms’ showing “The Way” (Acts 9:2 , Acts 19:9 , Acts 22:4 , etc.) into the Court (The Father = John’s Baptism) through the Holy Place (The Son) and the Holy of Holies (The Holy Spirit). These three baptisms are for the members of the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) where Peter, John and James are the “sons of the bridal chamber” (Mark 2:19). However, NONE of these baptisms have anything to do with the members of the “Body of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12), because we have just “one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5) where the Holy Spirit baptizes us (1 Corinthians 12:13) directly into Christ (Galatians 3:27) upon hearing and believing the Gospel.
    There are no contradictions in God’s Living Word, but men create them by the introduction of their homemade church dogma. You are confusing the three witnesses of “The Word” with the three witnesses of “The Almighty” without knowing the difference. If you are going to write about “The Lord” ([email protected] = #3068 = http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...068&Version=kjv) in English, then think about typing out “The Lord” in English to avoid this confusion. Jesus Christ is the “Lord God” of the Old Testament who formed Adam from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2, but “God” (‘Elohiym #430) of Genesis 1 is “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6) “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).
    Lord-Have-Mercy . . . Peter baptized in the name of the Father with the forgiveness of sins via John’s Baptism IN WATER, that allowed the Kingdom Disciple to pass from the Court of the Temple into the “Holy Place” between the two veils. Peter then baptized in the name of the Son (Jesus Christ) to allow passage from the Holy Place into the Holy of Holies where the ‘third’ and final baptism of the Holy Spirit could take place by the laying of hands. Peter was baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (The Word), by carrying out the ‘three baptism’ process part of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matthew 4:23 , Matthew 9:35 , Acts 8:12) that has not saved one soul for almost 2000 years.
    The “One Lord” (Jesus Christ) is presented in Ephesians 4:5, but His God and Father is listed in the following verse:
    Since your teaching says the “Son of God = His God and Father,” then would you like to destroy God ‘or’ His Only Begotten Son to transform them into the same “one God?” Jesus Christ is still the “Son of God” and is at the “right hand of God” making intercession for the saints as we speak.
    Anyone transforming the “Son of God” into the “one God” must explain the identity of the “one Mediator” standing between his ‘god’ and men. You cannot place Jesus Christ into the “one God” position (1 Timothy 2:5) AND have Him stand ‘between God and men’ as the “one Mediator” at the very same time! We are looking at a ‘shell game’ where men play games with the true identity of God ‘and’ His Only Begotten Son, because some people are obviously confused and do not know the difference.
    Cornelius fell down and worshipped Peter in Acts 10:25, but that does not make him GOD either.
    Jesus Christ is the “Lord God” of the Old Testament that began His ‘Sabbath day’ (seventh day) consecration work in Genesis 2:1-7, but that does NOT make Him “God” of Genesis 1 representing “His God and Father” who raised Him from the dead. God and The Word are “ONE” and the same thing in God’s Infinite Realm, but God called on The Word to incarnate inside this Creation as our Lord Jesus Christ. That is the reason The Word is “with God” in John 1:2 . . .
    Yes. I understand the baptisms of Scripture perhaps better than anyone here, but that has nothing to do with playing shell games over God’s identity (The Almighty) or that of His Only Begotten Son (The Word).
    Please forgive, but John the Baptist was baptized with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb (Luke 1:15). David had the Holy Spirit from the Temple way back in the Old Testament:
    Elizabeth (Luke 1:41) and Zacharias (Luke 1:67) are “filled with the Holy Spirit” some thirty years before John the Baptist or Christ appeared to anyone. The phenomena you are attempting to describe is a ‘three step’ process of God offering the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel ONLY through John the Baptist (spirit witness), Jesus Christ (blood witness) and the Holy Spirit (water witness) testifying for “The Word” made flesh (John 1:14).[​IMG]The Prophets and the Law prophesied until John (Matthew 11:13), because John the Baptist is the “priest” appearing from behind the Second Veil of the Holy of Holies (OT) as the “spirit witness” (from God = John 1:6) preparing “The Way” for Christ to THEN come in “water and in blood” (1 John 5:6). John the Baptist carried the Holy Spirit baton from the Temple (through his father Zacharias = Luke 1:5-9 = chosen by lot), until Christ removed Him at His Baptism (Matthew 3:15-16) in the Jordan River. That marked the precise moment when John the Baptist (earthly messiah) began to decrease, so our Lord Jesus Christ (Heavenly Messiah) could ‘increase’ (John 3:30), as depicted by the lines in the diagram above. Christ took the Holy Spirit to increase over the 3-year period of His earthly ministry, until He was also murdered by the Jews (Matthew 17:12) and the “Helper” (John 16:7) was THEN passed to the Kingdom Disciples on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Jesus Christ sent the Twelve to Israel ONLY (Matthew 10:5-7) in the same way that Peter is preaching to the “men of Judea” (Acts 2:14), the “men of Israel” (Acts 2:22) and “all the house of Israel” (Acts 2:36) in Jerusalem on this feast day, when all Jews were avoiding contact with Gentiles to remain clean for the Holy Day. God’s offering of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel ONLY decreased (see diagram again) from Steven’s stoning (Acts 6-7), until the Holy Spirit baton was passed to the Apostle Paul (Acts 13:1-2) and Peter’s Kingdom Dispensation “Bride” Church was ‘cut off’ with Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. This “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Ephesians 3:2) superseded the now ‘cut off’ (Revelation 20:4) ‘early rains’ (James 5:7) Kingdom Bride, because God is ‘first’ (Acts 15:14) taking from among the Gentiles a people (Body of Christ) for His name. Elijah will appear ‘again’ preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 24:14 = to the end of the age) to restore all things (Matthew 17:10-11) at our Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) to START the 1000 Years Day of the Lord, when the Holy Spirit baton will be passed once again back to Elijah (John the Baptist) and the “late rains” (James 5:7) Kingdom Bride can be prepared over that 1000 Year Period.
    No sir. Jesus Christ ascended on the fortieth day (Acts 1:9-11), but the Holy Spirit fell on the fiftieth day (Pentecost) leaving a 10 day gap between His ascension and the Helper falling upon His Disciples. If you understand the three witnesses of The Word (Father = spirit witness, Son = blood witness and Holy Spirit = water witness), then you realize The Father is the ‘spirit’ of Christ Jesus, the Son is the ‘soul’ of Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the ‘body’ of Christ Jesus and those three are into the One (1 John 5:8). Therefore, the Holy Spirit falling upon the Kingdom Bride is the ‘body’ of Christ Jesus making the third and final offering of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel ONLY beginning at Jerusalem.
    Asking so many questions in your Opening Post leads your readers astray by requiring so very many answers. John the Baptist offered the Gospel of the Kingdom FIRST for the Father by baptizing in water, so the Son of God could come behind and offer the Holy Spirit should Israel ACCEPT HIM. Israel rejected John the Baptist and Christ and would eventually murder and exile all the disciples in “Strike 1, strike 2 and strike 3 you are out!” fashion.
    So what? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit remain the three witnesses of THE WORD testifying about Jesus Christ the “Son OF GOD” seen by most everyone walking around in the earth some 2000 years ago. John the Baptist still saw the Holy Spirit descending down from heaven (John 1:32) and “No one has seen GOD at any time.” John 1:18. Therefore, splitting hairs about whether the Holy Spirit is the ‘water witness’ or ‘spirit witness’ (the Father) of “The Word” has nothing to do with transforming the Son of God into His Own God and Father.
    So many questions and so few answers . . . Christ selecting disciples has nothing whatsoever to do with the ‘identity’ of His God and Father OR Himself as the “Only Begotten Son OF GOD” (John 3:18). You appear to be taking a very long road around this Trinity topic using a series of confusing Hebraisms and leading questions requiring more of an explanation than Unorthodox Christian is able to provide to anyone. Thank you very much for starting this thread and for the opportunity to explain the differences between Jesus Christ the “Son of God” AND “His God and Father” the “One God” who raised Him from the dead.In Christ Jesus the Son of God,Terral
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Terrel Christ, not only He is the Son of God. He is God Himself.Jag
     
  6. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Oh I SEE, I think Terral is a Jehovah Witness. Well brother so am I, because all members of this Board are Witnesses of Jehovah! YESHUA HAMASHIACH
     
  7. Terral

    Terral New Member

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    Hi Thesuperjag and Unorthodox Christian:please forgive, gentlemen, but someone is being reduced to writing one-sentence drivel in these threads without quoting anyone and without using one reference from Scripture. Post #4 above is very long and I quote Unorthodox Christian word-for-word in a line-by-line rebuttal for which he has NO REPLY. Please “quote >>” anything you find errant in my work and offer your opposing arguments using Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15), so perhaps we will have something to debate. Until then, I must answer one-liner posts like this:
    Thesuperjag >> Terrel Christ, not only He is the Son of God. He is God Himself.
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 1:34) and He never changes (Hebrews 13:8). Thesuperjag is encouraged to ‘quote me >>’ from Post #4 above to offer his arguments for anything he likes using Scripture. We can look at Christ’s Own words, saying,
    “Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" John 20:17.
    Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” preparing to ascend to “My Father and your Father, and My God and your God,” but Thesuperjag wants us to believe He is confused about His own “Son of God” identity. How will Thesuperjag remove “Christ Jesus” from the “one Mediator” position “Between God and men” to transform Christ in to the “one God” of 1 Timothy 2:5?
    “For there is one God, and one Mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .” 1 Timothy 2:5.
    This argument appears in Post #4 of this thread, but both of my debating adversaries have ignored my arguments and the Scriptural support to talk about something else. Why? :0) I look very much forward to your reply. Good Luck in the debate . . .
    Unorthodox Christian >> Oh I SEE, I think Terral is a Jehovah Witness. Well brother so am I, because all members of this Board are Witnesses of Jehovah! YESHUA HAMASHIACH
    LOL! The JW’s come to my place just one time. The next week you can see them scurrying by without even giving one glance in my direction. :0) Please offer your defending arguments standing in Post #4 of this thread, if any ever come to mind. Please forgive again, but folks without the knowledge of the differences between God and His Only Begotten Son will likely prove to be feeble debating opponents on these Bible Topics. Jesus Christ is still the Lord AND God still raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Here are some verses to help you along:
    “If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1 John 5:9-13.
    Do you believe the ‘testimony OF GOD’ that “He has testified concerning HIS SON?” Go ahead and give us the name of God’s Only Begotten Son, so we can tell if you even understand THE DIFFERENCE. The name of the Son of God is “Jesus Christ” and God raising Him from the dead is “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6). Jesus Christ has a “God and Father,” but guess what? :0) God has no God and no Father, because He is the “Only True God” (John 17:3) of our Lord Jesus Christ His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son. Anyone knowing the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ certainly would NEVER try to confuse HIM (The Almighty = Revelation 1:8) with “The Word” God sent into the world to save sinners. Good Luck in the debate,In Christ Jesus,Terral
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Terral;25300)
    (thesuperjag;25266)
    Terrel Christ, not only He is the Son of God. He is God Himself.Jag
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 1:34) and He never changes (Hebrews 13:8). Thesuperjag is encouraged to ‘quote me >>’ from Post #4 above to offer his arguments for anything he likes using Scripture. We can look at Christ’s Own words, saying,Yes Yahshua is the Son of God. (John 9:35, John 10:36) and Yahshua is God Himself. (John 1:1, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 5:23,) As for the Old Testament scriptures. I'll say it out loud.Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (which being interpreted is, God with us. - Matthew 1:23)Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.I John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.Jag
     
  9. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    Terralwhat do you do with rev 1: 17,18 ?
     
  10. Terral

    Terral New Member

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    Hi Jag and Crooner:
    Jesus Christ is Lord (Romans 10:9) and GOD raised Him from the dead. MANY people posting here do NOT know the difference between God (The Almighty = Revelation 1:8) and His Only Begotten Son our Lord Jesus Christ (The Word = John 1:2). Replacing the “one God” (1 Timothy 2:5) with ANYTHING is “IDOLATRY” in the first degree. Period! While I am more than happy to point out the folly of this grave error, there is no guarantee those already blinded by their own IDOLATRY will comprehend a single word. Christ testifies about “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Matthew 10:32-33) time and time again. Right? Of course. Scripture describes Christ as the “Bread of Life” coming from where?
    Jesus Christ is the Bread of God that comes down out of heaven, by His own admission. Right? Of course. John the Baptist saw the Holy Spirit descending on Christ, but from where?
    John is testifying to seeing the Spirit descending ‘out of heaven,’ which is the same exact place Christ ascends to:
    Can we all agree that all three witnesses of “The Word” (F+S+HS) are all “IN HEAVEN” very much above this earth? Yes? Very Good! Then follow me back into the Old Testament to the Lord God’s commands pointing His finger at MANY of you:
    If the commandment says NOT to worship any idol or any likeness of “what is IN HEAVEN,” then explain for everyone here why you are worshipping the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8), when They are ALL IN HEAVEN??? Scripture has already told you that Heaven and even the Highest Heaven cannot contain God!
    Jesus Christ is “The Word” (John 1:2) that is “ONE” and the “SAME THING” as “God” in His Infinite Realm! That is why Scripture says, “In the beginning was* The Word, and The Word was* with God, and The Word was* God” (John 1:1) using the “Imperfect Tense*” (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/ten...=1&strongs=5775) representing “continual or repeated action.” God and His Word (Christ) are still ONE and the SAME THING in God’s Infinite Realm right this moment as we speak. However, God called on The Word to ‘incarnate,’ which is why we see Him “with God” in John 1:2 using the same Imperfect Tense verb. The Word is currently the Father (spirit witness), Son (blood witness) and Holy Spirit (water witness) triune mystery set containing this entire universe (Colossians 1:16) and holding every fiber of this creation together (Colossians 1:17) like this:[​IMG]God and The Word are “ONE” and the SAME in the golden yellow Infinite Realm, but simultaneously the “Realm of the Word” (F+S+H) as “Christ Jesus” standing “BETWEEN God and men” (1 Timothy 2:5) at the very same time. Jesus Christ on this earth is the Lord God of Genesis 2:1 + and the incarnation of the entire “Realm of the Word” (F+S+HS), while Adam (Elijah/David/John the Baptist) is the incarnate “man sent from God” (John 1:6) representing this entire Adamic Universe (heavens, heaven and earth = http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...micCreation.jpg) like this (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/04.jpg). The red “Realm of the Word” is the “Highest Heaven” from Genesis 1:1, while the local “Heaven” (Genesis 1:8) is the ‘soul’ of this Adamic Universe called into existence “IN” The Word as the ‘Eth ‘Erets of Genesis 1:1 and the creation of John 1:3. Therefore, Heaven (between the heavens and earth) and the Highest Heaven (The Realm of the Word) CANNOT contain God, because He is very much INFINITE shown by the golden yellow realm extending infinitely in all directions. We will look upon the ‘incarnation’ of God Himself only ‘after’ the New Creation comes into existence in Revelation 21:1:
    Only then can David (Ezekiel 37:24-28 = Adam = this universe as one man) meet face to face with Jesus Christ (the incarnation of the Word Realm) and God Himself (the incarnation of the Infinite Realm), because all three witnesses (spirit = God, blood = Christ, water = Adam) will THEN have the ability to pass through all the ‘veils’ currently standing between the realms of this broken universe. Those among you worshipping the “Son of God” (Christ the incarnate Word) as “The Almighty” are bowing to ‘an image’ of the Invisible God that NO ONE has seen at any time (John 1:18):
    You FAIL to realize that “God was IN Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:19) reconciling the world (Adamic Universe) to Himself and that the fullness of God’s Deity dwells in Him in bodily form:
    Since God is dwelling “IN” His Word (F+S+HS = Christ) in BODILY FORM, then obviously the “Son of God” has been SEEN by men (John 1:34), exactly the way Adam walked with the Lord God (Christ) in the garden. The key for understanding is that God (Genesis 1:1 = The Almighty) rested “IN” His Son (the Lord God) to begin this seventh day from where He has been reconciling the universe to Himself from that moment forward. We see the glory of God in the FACE OF CHRIST (2 Corinthians 4:5-6), because God sent His Word to incarnate among men for that very purpose. However, to then replace “The Almighty” with “The Word” sent to redeem us is IDOLATRY, because men have decided to create an idol out of the “Son OF GOD” rather than recognize Christ as the “one Mediator” BETWEEN God AND men. 1 Timothy 2:5.
    God is ‘with us,’ because He is “IN Christ” (The Word) reconciling the world to Himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19.
    The Father places the ‘title’ of “God” upon His Son in Hebrews 1:8, as the reconciliation ‘process’ shall continue for all the ages to come. This changes NOTHING about the fact that Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and that “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6) raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) on the third day.
    These are the three witnesses of “The Word” (F+S+HS), but the three witnesses of “The Almighty” (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was) are testifying with Him in Revelation 1:8. Never think yourself ‘better’ than those worshipping idols, just because you choose to select the “Son of God” as the focus of your own IDOLATRY. There is still only “one God” and Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” BETWEEN God AND men (1 Timothy 2:5), no matter how you try to skin this cat.
    If you have an argument to make using Revelation 1:17-18, then please do so and I will offer my advocating or opposing views using Scripture. 2 Timothy 2:15. Good Luck in the debate,In Christ Jesus the Son of God,Terral
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    You clearly missed the words in Isaiah 9:6...For unto us a child is born. Who is born? Yahshua. God Himself is born of a virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23)For Yahshua is indeed the Father (Isaiah 9:6) as it says. Yet God, who is the Word (John 1:1) was made in the flesh (John 1:14, I Timothy 3:16) who was made lower than the angels. (Psalm 8:5, Hebrews 2:7, Hebrews 2:9) Yahshua's sacred name is "I AM" (Exodus 3:14, John 14:6, John 6:35, John 8:58) For again He is God and God can not change. (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8)So the question is Am I breaking God's words if I called Yahshua, God?Please answer this highlighted questioned with a one liner. A simple yes, or no.Jag
     
  12. Brenda

    Brenda New Member

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    I've always believed that Jesus is the Son of God. When a man and woman gets married they become one. I assumed that met in mind and beliefs. and that's how it is with God and Jesus. If I'm wrong I'll find out when I get to heaven.[​IMG]
     
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