Jun2u,
Will you bother to learn the truth, or will you stick with your canned and erroneous teachings? It remains to be seen. Besides, is this all you have, a single verse that you think refutes an entire teaching on "Between the Evenings"? You haven't even addressed a single verse or concept in the teaching. If you want to be lazy and take meaningless pot shots at someone, then go dialogue with the other lazy participants that operate the way you do. Leave the rest of us alone, because these teachings are beyond your attention span.
You have quoted a verse that has been grossly mistranslated - Proverbs 7:9. Here is the teaching that God gave to me regarding this verse.
Proverbs 7:9
Part I
1. This treatise gives the exegesis of Proverbs 7:9 KJV, “In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night[.]”
2. Proverbs 7:9 KJV, “In the twilight (Strong’s H5399 nesheph), in the evening (Strong’s H3117 yowm and H6153 ereb), in the black (Strong’s H380 iyshown) and dark (Strong’s H653 aphelah) night (Strong’s H3915 layil)[.]”
3. Twilight means that no portion of the disk of the sun is above the horizon. It can refer to a time prior to sunrise or after sunset meaning that the sky still has some light available, but it is growing dark and more difficult to see. This part of the translation appears solid and imparts the information that the writer intended. This verse, taken in context, describes people who come out at night to sin. They come out at night because they do not wish to be easily identified. Twilight is the beginning of the cover of darkness which they seek. Job 24:15 KJV, “The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”
4.a. The next part of this verse is a corrupt translation for more than one reason. The Hebrew word “yowm” should not have been translated as “evening”, because yowm means “day”. The Hebrew word ereb means even or evening. But even or evening or ereb in biblical time keeping does not refer to the time of day after sundown, instead it refers to the time of day from noon to sundown. In other words, ereb means afternoon in our current day usage of the word.
4.b. So, the corruption in the translation of yowm and ereb is that yowm is ignored completely. The corruption in the translation of ereb is that it is made to refer to a period of time after sundown, when it really refers to the afternoon (in our modern concept). The logic in this verse has broken down: The first third talks about twilight and the second third talks about the afternoon. If these sinners want to remain hidden, they certainly would not go out to meet each other in the afternoon.
4.c. When used together, yowm and ereb, have a slightly different meaning than when used separately. I checked with a Hebrew translation of this verse and they did employ a slightly different meaning to these two words used together. It read, “as daylight wanes”. This translation at least has some logic to it. “In the twilight, as daylight wanes…” certainly explains that it was a time of transition from light to darkness and darkness had the upper hand.
4.d. I prefer a more literal translation. Since ereb means even which means sundown (in this case the second even or second sundown of the day), I would translate these two words as “the after even time of the day” or “the after sundown time of the day” or “the night time of the day”. In the last case, ereb does not literally translate to night; however, it gets the point across as effectively as “as daylight wanes”. After all a day can be divided into two or three parts. A two part division would be the daylight portion of a day and the dark or night portion of a day. A three part division would be morning, evening*, and night. *See our treatise titled “Between the Evenings”.
4.e. This phrase, “the night time of the day” also confirms that a day consists of the daylight hours and the night time hours that follow. Another verse that confirms that the night hours are part of a day is Mark 14:30 KJV, “And [Yahoshua] saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.”
5.a. In this paragraph, I will attempt to explain from another approach, how we can have a day time of the day and a night time of the day.
5.b. A day has several different meanings in Scripture. It must be determined from the context which meaning applies. Here are some of your choices: The daylight time of the day only; the night time of the day; both the daylight and night hours of a day; and a period of time that may be more than a single day.
5.c. Here is an example of the night time hours of a day. Proverbs 7:9 KJV, "in the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night[.]" This Scripture is filled with time markers: "In the twilight" means after sundown; "in the evening" means in the afternoon or it can mean at sundown; and "in the black and dark night" means after sundown. As translated, this Scripture contradicts itself. Two time markers indicate that it is after sunset, and one time marker indicates that it is at sunset or sooner.
"Evening" is translated from the Hebrew word "yowm" (Strong's H3117 yowm). Now the translators have given a totally false translation. "Yowm" means day. "Ereb" means evening, (Strong's H6153 ereb). The translation I checked left out "ereb" and incorrectly translated "yowm" into “evening". Possibly some might say the translators left out "yowm" and translated "ereb" correctly. Either way, the translators left out a vital word in their translation. Taken together, these two words "yowm" and "ereb", mean "the time of day after sundown" or "the night time of the day”.
I checked about fifty translations and only two of them translated this verse with any semblance of correctness. Here is John Wycliffe’s translation of 1380. Proverbs 7:9 WYC “n dark time, when the day draweth to night, in the darkness and mist in the night.” In the original wording we have Proverbs 7:9 WYC “[G]oith niy the weie of hir hous in derk tyme, whanne the dai drawith to niyt, in the derknessis and myst of the nyyt.”
Let us compare my two suggestions along side of Wycliffe’s translation. We will focus only on the part of the verse that has been translated incorrectly by all the other versions.
the time of day after sundown
the night time of the day
when the day draweth to night
whanne the dai drawith to niyt.
5.d. What changed between Wycliffe’s translation in 1380 and the next translations available to us in 1525 with William Tyndale, Myles Coverdale in 1535, Thomas Matthew in 1537, the Great Bible in 1539, the Geneva Bible in 1560, Bishops’ Bible in 1568, and the King James Bible in 1611? Why was the knowledge of the night time of the day lost to these subsequent translations? Why was the knowledge that the Hebrew word “ereb”, which meant “even or evening”, which meant “afternoon” or “sunset” lost? This lack of knowledge affects every other verse in the entire Bible in which the word “ereb” is used. It literally changes the times as prophesied in Daniel 7:25 KJV, “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
5.e. The Stone Edition Tanach also gave a valid translation for the part of Proverbs 7:9 that addresses the use of the Hebrew words of yowm and ereb together. I will underline that part. “n the twilight, as daylight wanes, in the blackness of night and darkness.” “Wanes” is not a word for word translation of “ereb”, because ereb means, in this context, sundown. However the phrase “as daylight wanes” certainly imparts the correct meaning. Yowm and ereb used together does mean that the daylight is waning because it refers to the “after sundown time of day”.
6.a. Now we will take a look at the last third of verse nine and the three major words in that verse. I have made a chart that shows each word in Hebrew, how it is translated into English in the King James Version, and a list of the meanings that should have been used by the translators but were rejected in favor of the definitions they did employ.
(For formatting purposes, the rest of this page is left blank so that the following chart will have a page of its own).
The chart did not come through this blog's software. I will add it at the end, and I'll try to enter it here:
Strong’s Hebrew Meaning KJV Possible
number word of word Translatio Translatio
n ns
H380 iyshown the black his soul
middle of like the
the night dark pupil
(deepest of an eye
blackness
)
pupil of
the eye
H653 aphelah darkness dark is full of
wickedn
gloominess ess
calamity
wickedness
(figuratively)
H3915 layil night night and glo
om of
night of night
gloom
protective
shadow
6.b. The last third of this verse begins with black or the Hebrew word iyshown. The translation of this word can be highly complex. One meaning is “the middle of the night (that is the deepest blackness)”. But is this translation logical and in sync with the first two thirds of the verse? It could be. We have gone from twilight, to the night part of a day, and now to the middle of the night. This is a logical progression of time and continually growing darkness. But, is this what the observer from verse six was witnessing? I think not. The verse six observer was not witnessing a scene that was rapidly progressing through time. The observer was giving witness to a scene being played out before his eyes; a snapshot in time so to speak, but not a video. In a video he could have described a scene that is progressing in time. But he did not, instead he described a snapshot in time.
6.c. There is a second meaning for iyshown. It means the “pupil of the eye”. Using this definition in verse nine opens up another possibility for the intended meaning of this Scripture. If the verse six witness was discerning the young man’s motives, and I think he was, then making reference to his eyes has the deeper meaning of peering into the soul of the young man; discerning his spiritual and moral condition; discerning if his soul is full of light or darkness. Matthew 6:23 KJV, “But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!” Luke 11:34 KJV, “The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.”
7.a. The next word to be translated is from Hebrew is aphelah. This word also has several possible meanings. It could mean darkness, gloominess, calamity, or wickedness (in a figurative manner). Since the previous word of iyshown means deepest blackness, would it make any sense to translate this next word of aphelah as darkness? “Deepest blackness darkness” just does not flow comfortably after “In the twilight, in the night time of the day”. Nor does “gloominess” substitute very well. Possibly “calamity” or “wickedness” would work.
7.b. But if we are going to translate the meaning of the last third of this verse by peering into the young man’s heart and soul, then the definition of wickedness for aphelah makes perfect sense. Iyshown has already revealed that the young man’s thoughts are not pure. What better way to follow up on that thought than to further describe his dark soul by calling him wicked?
8.a. The last word in verse nine is layil which means “night” or “night of gloom” or “protective shadow”.
8.b. If we use the definition for layil of “night of gloom”, then I believe we have completed the thoughts of discernment toward this errant young man. Rather than having light coming from his soul through his eyes (iyshown) we have darkness. Rather than having to repeat this reference to darkness with the next word, instead we substitute wickedness (aphelah). And finally, with layil we see the young man’s final condition, he is covered by the gloominess of night.
9.a. Now that we have proposed that the spiritual significance of the last third of this verse has been overlooked or rejected by the translators, let us put our understanding of the verse together.
9.b. First, let us look at the translation again from the King James version. Proverbs 7:9 KJV, “In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night[.]”
9.c. Second, let us look at this verse again with the corrections I made, due to the erroneous use of “evening” (actually “afternoon”) for the two Hebrew words of ereb and yowm. Proverbs 7:9 KJV, “In the twilight, in the [after sunset time of the day], in the black and dark night[.]”
9.d. Third, let us look at the full insertion of the translation that we propose, which I believe was the intended meaning by the original author of this verse. Proverbs 7:9, “In the twilight, in the after sunset time of the day, his soul like the dark pupil of an eye, is full of wickedness and gloom of night.”
9.e. I believe, if you study the chart that I have provided, you will see that our translation falls within the parameters of a valid translation.
10. In Proverbs 7:2, just seven verses prior to verse nine, we see a contrast. In verse two our Father desires that our focus be on His law. Proverbs 7:2 KJV, “Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.” The point I am making here is that if your focus is on the law of Yahowah rather than adultery, then the pupil of your eye will reveal light and not darkness.
Chart from para 6a above:
Strong’s Hebrew Meaning KJV Possible
number word of word Translatio Translatio
n ns
H380 iyshown the black his soul
middle of like the
the night dark pupil
(deepest of an eye
blackness
)
pupil of
the eye
H653 aphelah darkness dark is full of
wickedn
gloominess ess
calamity
wickedness
(figuratively)
H3915 layil night night and glo
om of
night of night
gloom
protective
shadow
