IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[Scott Downey]

QUOTE
"The Holy Bible does not say that"
Jesus said it.
Please do not misrepresent His word.

QUOTE
"worthy to escape" is NOT synonymous with "evacuation."
Tell it to Lot and the baby Jesus.
Both evacuated , and those dynamics are not in your talking points
And never will be..

QUOTE
"The ones taken were taken to destruction - not evacuation"
Not in the bible.
All postribbers try and reframe the impossible.
JESUS said "one taken, one left behind "
Of The group that half are taken, it can not be, a group of Earth's population. ( not even remotely possible)
But you guys need it to be.
You NEED half of earth's population wicked, and half righteous. And some wicked rapture of half earth's population.
That is such an obvious red flag.
But that IMPOSSIBILITY Is your talking point.

It gets worse for that "wicked taken" assumption.
Because Jesus said "BEFORE THE FLOOD 2 men shall be in a bed, one taken, the other left".
Again half the world is not righteous.
But your doctrine is trying to say " AFTER THE TRIB ,2 men in a bed. The wicked one is taken. "
IOW....The on fire for Jesus, spirit filled believer, is IN BED, SLEEPING WITH A DEMON FILLED, ANTICHIST MARKED, SATAN WORSHIPPING HEATHEN.
That us what you are saying.
But it gets even worse, because Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD we see normal life, Everyday life, Commerce, and planning for the future, marriage , and betrothal. (ahem....the PRETRIB setting no postrib has ever comprehended) THEN IN THAT SETTING...one taken, one left.!!!!
So your doctrine has a pretrib rapture of the wicked (one half of the world), in the wrong setting, with Jesus telling the wicked to watch and be ready, and you guys proclaim it as if it is true.!!!!!
Totally bizarre.


Postribbers actually make an impossibility their talking point.

Jesus said, just a few verses later, half are taken TO HEAVEN.
Another SUBGROUP where Half of A SUBGROUP are taken to heaven.

That is 2 mighty witnesses against your doctrine talking points.
( more like 20 witnesses)

Not all unsaved are full of demons, antichrist marked, satan worshippers, heathen or even crazy, most are normal kinds of people, they are though deceived.

I would say a lot of them are religious, moral type folk, they just are not saved.
2 People in one bed, I suppose could be thought of today as husband and wife. Back then, and in some places today, same sex people do share a bed, but are not sexually involved.

When Jesus returns there is a sudden destruction of the wicked and the world.

Entire chapter here on the return of Christ, where is the antichrist, the beast, and the mark mentioned?
There is mentioned tribulation on the saints.
Some of that about Satan shows up in 2 Thessalonians 2

This entire chapter speaks as if not all believers are wiped out by the beast before Christ's return
note v7
and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels

2 Thessalonians 1
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 1 - New King James Version

Greeting - Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. God’s Final Judgment and Glory - We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Scott Downey]

Can anyone say amen to how Paul has written to the Thessalonian believers, that they will be alive on earth at the return of Christ?

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Then in 2 Thessalonians, Paul teaches of our gathering to Christ (rapture is not a word in scripture, just a meme)
AND the way Jesus and Paul teaches this requires us to be present as witnesses of these things, otherwise your illogical.


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Our day of gathering to Christ will NOT occur until the revealing of that man of sin. Which means we will be witnesses of these things.

And Jesus says like this, Watch and Be Ready!
'WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS"

Matthew 24

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
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That Day of Christ, what Christ is teaching in Matthew 24 is that Day of His returning, when He comes again, it is the same things being taught by Paul in 1 and 2 Thessalonians, not a secret invisible rapture.