Two Extremes of Man's Religion: Works with Faith and Faith without Works

[Titus]

James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous."

btw, you are in a Baptist sect. As proof, tell me the name of your church? I know if you're honest you will have no reason not to.

You are putting words in James' mouth Danthemailman.
Let's pretend your Baptist interpretation of the word justified in James chapter 2 is the word of God.

Dan's interpretation of justified in James 2: "shown to be righteous" meaning before works already justified. Now we will apply this definition to the verses,

Note: Dan uses the word justified to mean already righteous. Therefore one is justified= before works

James 2:21,
Dan: Was not Abraham our father justified(was already justified before works)
James: Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac...

Clearly Danthemailman is not teaching what James taught.



James 2:25,
Dan: was not Rahab the harlot also justified(was already justified before works)
James: was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way.

Clearly Danthemailman is putting words in James' mouth.

James teaches Abraham's faith justified him because his faith had works. Not faith alone.
James 2:23-24,
-and the scripture was fulfilled(Genesis 15:6) which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.
-You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only.

Notice: Righteousness and Justified. You cannot have one without the other.

Righteous= justified
Justified = made righteous

Justified = not guilty,
Righteous = morally right in the eyes of God, justifiable

Therefore, I will switch justified and righteousness in James 2:23 and James 2:24

ALTERED VERISON:
James 2:23-24,
-and the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for justification.
-You see then that a man is righteous by works(obedience) and not by faith only.

Dan's doctrine: Abraham is justified, righteous by faith and no obedience(no works)
James' doctrine: Abraham is justified, righteous by faith that obeys(with works)

James and Danthemailman teach different doctrines.

Next, the word by gives meaning to James 2:24

That little Greek word by and James 2:24
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
by greek word  ek or ex.
by is a preposition denoting origin

Definition of by: from, from out of

Translation: basis, based, because, after, means, result, through

James 2:24,
You see then that a man is justified by works
Justified  after works
Justified  means works
Justified result works
Justified  basis works
Justified  based works
Justified through works
Justified  because works
Justified  after works

Dan claims Abraham's faith was alone, without works when God accounted His faith as righteousness,
Genesis 15:6 = James 2:23

The Bible gives the answer we do not have to guess.

Genesis 15:5-6,
-Then God brought Abram outside and said, Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them. And God said to Abram, So shall your descendants be,
-And he believed in the Lord and God accounted it to him for righteousness.

Question: God blessed Abraham with descendants as great a number as the stars in the sky!
God blessed Abraham based on his faith!
Dan says this faith alone with no obedience is why God blessed him.
The Bible teaches Abraham's faith is full of obedient works and this Faith with works is why God blessed Abraham!!!!

Biblical proof:
Genesis 26:4-5,
-And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars in heaven I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations shall be blessed;
-because Abraham OBEYED My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

The Bible proves Abraham's faith was accounted righteous because it was a faith that worked Gods commandments, Obeyed Gods laws.
Genesis 15:6 Abraham's faith is not Alone as Dan teaches.
Abraham's faith accounted him as righteous, justified by God because his faith was FAITH WITH WORKS.

James 2:24,
-You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Dan's faith is dead. It does not justify Abraham and it does not justify Danthemailman.

Faith only salvation refuted with the Bible.

 

[mailmandan]

btw, you are in a Baptist sect. As proof, tell me the name of your church? I know if you're honest you will have no reason not to.

The name of the church that I attend is Heartland church and it's a non-denominational church. I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with labeling me as a Baptist, although I would much rather be associated with Baptists than Campbellites. Being labeled as a Baptist is a badge of honor compared to being labeled a Campbellite.

You are putting words in James' mouth Danthemailman.
Let's pretend your Baptist interpretation of the word justified in James chapter 2 is the word of God.

What you can't seem to get through your head is that the term "justified" has more than one meaning, depending on the context. As I already shared with you.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Again, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) *This remains your achilles heel.*

Dan's interpretation of justified in James 2: "shown to be righteous" meaning before works already justified. Now we will apply this definition to the verses,

Note: Dan uses the word justified to mean already righteous. Therefore one is justified= before works

The proper interpretation of James 2:24 is "You see then that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works, and not by (an empty profession of faith/dead faith) that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14) *Fits the context perfectly and also harmonizes with Romans 4:2-3 perfectly as well.* You need to learn how to poorly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine, but first, the blinders must be removed. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

James 2:21,
Dan: Was not Abraham our father justified (shown to be righteous) by works
James: Was not Abraham our father justified (shown to be righteous) by works when he offered Isaac...
I fixed it for you. Once again, Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. *HERMENEUTICS*

Clearly Danthemailman is not teaching what James taught.

To the contrary, you are not teaching what James taught and you are in contradiction with Paul. (Romans 4:2-6)

James 2:25,
Dan: was not Rahab the harlot also justified (was already justified before works)
James: was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way.

In regards to James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs. (James 2:18) Being justified (accounted as righteous) by faith (Romans 4:2-6) precedes being justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:21, 24)

Clearly Danthemailman is putting words in James' mouth.

Not at all. You just don't understand because you teach 'salvation by works' and the blinders remain. You fail miserably at properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. It would appear that you are incapable of seeing anything beyond your biased church doctrine.

James teaches Abraham's faith justified him because his faith had works. Not faith alone.
James 2:23-24,
-and the scripture was fulfilled (Genesis 15:6) which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.
-You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only.

Once again, Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22. Faith in God's promise alone in Genesis 15:6 justified/accounted Abraham as righteous. In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous yet Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. A man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works." (James 2:14, 24)

Notice: Righteousness and Justified. You cannot have one without the other.

Righteous= justified
Justified = made righteous

Justified = not guilty,
Righteous = morally right in the eyes of God, justifiable

The term justified has more than one definition and this one fits the context of James 2 - to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered. For the umpteenth time, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Therefore, I will switch justified and righteousness in James 2:23 and James 2:24

You still fail to acknowledge that the term "justified" has more than one meaning, which remains your achilles heel.

ALTERED VERISON:
James 2:23-24,
-and the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for justification.
-You see then that a man is righteous by works (obedience) and not by faith only.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

Dan's doctrine: Abraham is justified, righteous by faith and no obedience (no works)

Accounted as righteous, YES. (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3)

James' doctrine: Abraham is justified, righteous by faith that obeys (with works)

Shown to be righteous (and not accounted as righteous) by works, YES. (Romans 4:2-6; James 2:14-24)

James and Danthemailman teach different doctrines.

Not at all and my interpretation of James 2:24 is in perfect harmony with Romans 4:2-3. Your biased interpretation is not. Other works-salvationists, such as Roman Catholics and Mormons are in agreement with your biased interpretation of James 2:24, which explains a lot.

Next, the word by gives meaning to James 2:24

That little Greek word by and James 2:24
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
by greek word  ek or ex.
by is a preposition denoting origin

Definition of by: from, from out of

Translation: basis, based, because, after, means, result, through

James 2:24,
You see then that a man is justified by works
Justified  after works
Justified  means works
Justified result works
Justified  basis works
Justified  based works
Justified through works
Justified  because works
Justified  after works

You can try and spin it all you want, but the fact remains that James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3). Until you finally get that through your head, you will remain trapped believing a false gospel of works righteousness.

Dan claims Abraham's faith was alone, without works when God accounted His faith as righteousness,
Genesis 15:6 = James 2:23

Abraham believed God and was justified - "accounted as righteous based on his faith" (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

The Bible gives the answer we do not have to guess.

The Bible does, but you don't.

Genesis 15:5-6,
-Then God brought Abram outside and said, Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them. And God said to Abram, So shall your descendants be,
-And he believed in the Lord and God accounted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham was justified "accounted as righteous" by his faith (and not his works) several years BEFORE Abraham offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 and was said to be justified by works (James 2:21) which means he was "shown to be righteous" by works. Otherwise we have a major contradiction with Romans 4:2-3 and there are no contradictions in God's Word.

Question: God blessed Abraham with descendants as great a number as the stars in the sky!
God blessed Abraham based on his faith!
Dan says this faith alone with no obedience is why God blessed him.
The Bible teaches Abraham's faith is full of obedient works and this Faith with works is why God blessed Abraham!!!!

Accounted him as righteous by faith FIRST is one thing and being blessed LATER by obedience works is another thing. You can't seem to make that distinction.

Biblical proof:
Genesis 26:4-5,
-And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars in heaven I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations shall be blessed;
-because Abraham OBEYED My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

Proof of what? There is nothing in Genesis 15:5-6 about Abraham "keeping His charge, His commandments, His statues and His laws" and it was "credited to him for righteousness." *Romans 4:2-3 remains your achilles heel.*

The Bible proves Abraham's faith was accounted righteous because it was a faith that worked Gods commandments, Obeyed Gods laws.

False. Read Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:2-3 again and remove the blinders this time.

Genesis 15:6 Abraham's faith is not Alone as Dan teaches.
Abraham's faith accounted him as righteous, justified by God because his faith was FAITH WITH WORKS.

False. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. Just man up and admit that you are wrong.

James 2:24,
-You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

In context, James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14) Not to be confused with faith that trusts in God's promise (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) and in Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Dan's faith is dead. It does not justify Abraham and it does not justify Danthemailman.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Dan's faith is alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:5-9) and I show my faith by my works. (James 2:18)

Faith only salvation refuted with the Bible.

Faith only - (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works") is refuted in the Bible. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with faith that TRUSTS IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) You still don't understand the difference and there is a good reason for that.

 

[robert derrick]

Sorry for jumping in on you again, but it is so much more pleasurable to be instructed in the truth, than to continually battle a lie.

Dan's interpretation of justified in James 2: "shown to be righteous" meaning before works already justified. Now we will apply this definition to the verses,

This is the crux of the matter. Faith aloners cling to having righteousness by imputation alone, and then want to extend that to also having justification by faith alone.

They separate having from doing: they claim by faith alone to have righteousness and justification, without being righteous and justified by doing righteousness with works of faith.

This is why scripture must say the obvious, that any sensible man understands:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

They claim having righteousness and being righteous by faith alone, without doing it.

And what is the result? They continually say they have faith and righteousness and justification, while not doing God's righteousness.

It is the very rebuke of James to them that say they have faith, before they are doing it.

Note: Dan uses the word justified to mean already righteous. Therefore one is justified= before works

And this is the unique truth you teach, that I have never considered not heard before:

Salvation is not before faith, and justification is not before works.

Salvation and justification are not 'gifts' of God, before believing and obeying Him.

Faith alone is imaginary faith only. It is people saying they believe something, before doing it.

Both God and man want to hear less talk, and more doing.

And so James simply says what God and all men know: Don't tell us what you believe, show us you do believe it.

That is the difference between living faith from the heart, and dead faith alone before doing it.

There are the honest believers, that are doing, and the honest unbelievers that say no, and then there are the dishonest ones, that say and do not.

They say they have faith before works, that is therefore not genuine, but they also say they are saved and justified by it alone.

Righteous= justified
Justified = made righteous

Once again, the crux of the argument: Faith alone is claiming to have righteousness, without being righteous and doing it.

Notice: Righteousness and Justified. You cannot have one without the other.

This is only as far as I had taken it, before you have added much more.

Since justification is by works, and not by faith alone, then OSAS teaching of being saved by faith alone, separated being saved from being justified.

They separate salvation of God from justification by Christ.

Translation: basis, based, because, after, means, result, through

I prefer through.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

The argument is not so much between before and after works, but rather I prefer between for and with works.

A man is justified as being righteous with God, while doing His righteousness, not only after?

Being saved by grace through faith, is throughout the time of believing and obeying, not just after.

Faith only salvation refuted with the Bible.

And you teaching of the Bible.

Another unique addition you make, is to equate calling and choosing, with hearing and saving.

For many are called, but few are chosen.

It's not the calling into the ministry, that Scripture is speaking of, but the calling to be saved by the gospel.

Therefore, the many that are called, are the many that have heard, so that the few chosen, are the few saved and justified by Christ.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

We see here, that by hearing of the word, the word of faith is immediately sown in the heart, which is now seed and faith alone in the heart.

Every hearer immediately has faith alone in the heart and called, but only those doing the word are chosen and saved and justified by Christ.

The one not chosen, was the naked one, trying to sit a the marriage supper by faith of hearing alone.

He was not doing the word of righteousness and being clothed in white.

 

[robert derrick]

The imaginary error of faith aloners, is they think that they are different from others, that are hearers only, because they deceive themselves into thinking they are 'real' believers, rather than just wayside hearers.

They think the word is only sown in the heart by really believing, rather than the simple truth, that the word is sown in every man's heart by simple hearing only.

They think they are saved and justified by really believing alone. And others didn't really get into their heart by hearing only.

Faith alone salvation and justification is the gospel for hearers only.

Their faith alone is only sown in their heart like any other hearer only.

Saying we are saved by faith alone, is saying all hearers are immediately saved and justified by Christ. All that hear the gospel are called and saved and justified by Christ.

There are some that do teach this, and say people just need to acknowledge they are already saved by hearing alone, to make it 'effective' for them.

It's called convincing ourselves we are saved, because we have heard the gospel. And their whole life is spent convincing themselves and each other, they are still saved, because they are hearing the word, even while not doing it and especially while sinning with the devil still.

They minister to one another the gospel of hearers only, to continue convincing themselves they are saved by faith alone.

 

[Titus]

James never approved of faith alone salvation.
Before James 2. James made it clear in chapter 1,
That those who believed only(no action taken) were deceived.

James 1:22,
-But be doers(works) of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
James 1:25,
-But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this will be blessed in what he does.
No doing(works) no blessing.

Genesis 15:6, = Romans 4:1-5 ; James 2:23 ; Genesis 12. ; Genesis 26;4-5

Paul said of Abraham in Romans 4 that his faith not works accounted him righteous.
The works in Romans 4 is the works of the law of Moses.
Abraham lived before the law of Moses.
This is why Paul used Abraham as an example that no one is saved by the works of the law of Moses.

Paul did not teach in Romans 4 that Abraham's faith was without works.
Abraham's faith had works of obedience not works that he could boast about i.e. meritorious works.

Proof Abraham was accounted righteous by a faith with works in Genesis 15:6.
Go back before Genesis 15. You will learn Abraham already obeyed God. Already his faith had works!!!

From chapter 12 to chapter 15 ALL Abraham is doing is works for God. Obeying the Lords commandments. By the time God says in Genesis 15:6 that his faith accounted him as righteous, he had already done a literal ton of works!!! Anyone with an honest heart can see,
Abraham's faith had works it was never alone!

Danthemailman does not believe the Bible. He is a Baptist who believes only in Baptist traditions.

Paul then in Romans 4 is not teaching faith alone as the sectarian faith onlyist teach.
Paul is teaching that true Biblical faith save Abraham, that faith is a faith which believes and obeys.
The kind of faith Paul condemns in Romans 4 is earning works through trying to save one self without Gods grace but through keeping the law of Moses.
Dan, unfortunately does not understand the Bible.

 

[Titus]

Accounted as righteous, YES. (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3)

Danthemailman admits no obedience required by Abraham for God to impute righteousness i.e. saved.

Therefore Danthemailman admits his salvation doctrine is salvation through disobedience to God.

 

[DJT_47]

I see a lot of discussion here about churches and respective names and/or insinuation of their origin such. But the fact of the matter is, if you follow the prescribed biblical process of becoming a Christian, a child of God, being saved, and a member of the body of Christ, HE adds you to HIS church. There is only one way to achieve the aforementioned; have your sins remitted and be saved, and added to the Lord's body which is the one and only church and it's not called Baptist, or Lutheran, or Catholic, or Methodist, or any other similarly man contrived name. Read Acts 2:38-47. This is the only way described in the bible to become a member of the Lord's body. You're baptized for the remission of sins and the Lord adds you to the church.

 

[Titus]

I see a lot of discussion here about churches and respective names and/or insinuation of their origin such. But the fact of the matter is, if you follow the prescribed biblical process of becoming a Christian, a child of God, being saved, and a member of the body of Christ, HE adds you to HIS church. There is only one way to achieve the aforementioned; have your sins remitted and be saved, and added to the Lord's body which is the one and only church and it's not called Baptist, or Lutheran, or Catholic, or Methodist, or any other similarly man contrived name. Read Acts 2:38-47. This is the only way described in the bible to become a member of the Lord's body. You're baptized for the remission of sins and the Lord adds you to the church.

Romans 16:16

 

[DJT_47]

Romans 16:16

Amen

 

[mailmandan]

Danthemailman does not believe the Bible. He is a Baptist who believes only in Baptist traditions.

Danthemailman admits his salvation doctrine is salvation through disobedience to God.

 

[mailmandan]

I see a lot of discussion here about churches and respective names and/or insinuation of their origin such. But the fact of the matter is, if you follow the prescribed biblical process of becoming a Christian, a child of God, being saved, and a member of the body of Christ, HE adds you to HIS church. There is only one way to achieve the aforementioned; have your sins remitted and be saved, and added to the Lord's body which is the one and only church and it's not called Baptist, or Lutheran, or Catholic, or Methodist, or any other similarly man contrived name. Read Acts 2:38-47. This is the only way described in the bible to become a member of the Lord's body. You're baptized for the remission of sins and the Lord adds you to the church.

In regards to Acts 2:41, they were added to the Lord upon repentance (with faith implied) prior to receiving water baptism.

In Acts 4:4, we read - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. *What happened to baptism?

In Acts 5:14, we read - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

In Acts 26:18, we read - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Titus]

View attachment 27408

You know you are a Baptist that is why you will not tell me the name of your church. Are you ashamed of being a member of a Baptist church Dan? btw, you are a liar. I dont need to make up stories to show your deceitfullness.

 

[Titus]

Dan's doctrine: Abraham is justified, righteous, by faith and no obedience(no works)

Accounted as righteous, YES. (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3)

Dan admits he teaches salvation by disobedience.
House of brick and mortar Dan. No straw in sight.

 

[DJT_47]

In regards to Acts 2:41, they were added to the Lord upon repentance (with faith implied) prior to receiving water baptism.

In Acts 4:4, we read - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. *What happened to baptism?

In Acts 5:14, we read - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

In Acts 26:18, we read - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Before finishing reading all of your illogical logic, let me me sum it up this way. If you take any single scripture or few as you've done trying to make the case that baptism isn't an essential part of salvation, you will always end up with scriptures appearing to conflict with or contradict other scriptures. THAT CANNOT BE THE CASE! Scriptures don't contradict themselves!

If you follow your line of thinking, what do you do with considering only Romans 10:9-10, which some also choose to do. Romans 10:9-10 says belief in the heart and confess with the mouth is all that's necessary to be saved. What about repentance or faith or God's grace?

What most people unfortunately do is cherry pick scripture as you've done which will always give you a skewed view. You must consider all related scriptures and see how they fit together. A good example of a conversion which covers most elements of salvation is that ofvthe Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. Philip preached Christ to him, he asked what would prohibit him from being baptized because they were near a body of water, so obviously Philip's preaching must have included the necessity of baptism, Philip told him he could if he believed, he confessed his belief and was immediately baptized. When all pertinent scriptures are considered you end up with a short list of how one is saved.
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of your belief
3. Repentance
4. Water baptism for the remission of sins

That's how you are saved, become a Christian and child of God, are added to the Lord's body which is his church. Pretty simple but all necessary.

 

[mailmandan]

You know you are a Baptist that is why you will not tell me the name of your church. Are you ashamed of being a member of a Baptist church Dan? btw, you are a liar. I dont need to make up stories to show your deceitfullness.

I told you the name of my church and it's a non-denominational church and not a Baptist church AND I am not ashamed of Baptist churches. I would attend a Baptist church any day of the week over a Campbellite church. Your continued slander is uncalled for. You sound like an absolute JERK. Let me know when you are ready to have an honest, meaningful conversation.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Two Extremes of  Man's Religion;
following man and refusing to follow God in obedience!

Simplicity without extreme is God's way. He says,we obey!

 

[mailmandan]

Before finishing reading all of your illogical logic, let me me sum it up this way. If you take any single scripture or few as you've done trying to make the case that baptism isn't an essential part of salvation, you will always end up with scriptures appearing to conflict with or contradict other scriptures. THAT CANNOT BE THE CASE! Scriptures don't contradict themselves!

If you follow your line of thinking, what do you do with considering only Romans 10:9-10, which some also choose to do. Romans 10:9-10 says belief in the heart and confess with the mouth is all that's necessary to be saved. What about repentance or faith or God's grace?

What most people unfortunately do is cherry pick scripture as you've done which will always give you a skewed view. You must consider all related scriptures and see how they fit together. A good example of a conversion which covers most elements of salvation is that ofvthe Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. Philip preached Christ to him, he asked what would prohibit him from being baptized because they were near a body of water, so obviously Philip's preaching must have included the necessity of baptism, Philip told him he could if he believed, he confessed his belief and was immediately baptized. When all pertinent scriptures are considered you end up with a short list of how one is saved.
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of your belief
3. Repentance
4. Water baptism for the remission of sins

That's how you are saved, become a Christian and child of God, are added to the Lord's body which is his church. Pretty simple but all necessary.

Your 4 step plan of salvation (which is the result of flawed hermeneutics) sounds like the Campbellite gospel with step 2 and step 3 reversed. Repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ (Acts 20:21) Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10) Water baptism follows saving belief/faith in Christ. (Acts 10:43-47)

 

[Titus]

I told you the name of my church and it's a non-denominational church and not a Baptist church AND I am not ashamed of Baptist churches. I would attend a Baptist church any day of the week over a Campbellite church. Your continued slander is uncalled for. You sound like an absolute JERK. Let me know when you are ready to have an honest, meaningful conversation.

You just admitted you believe in the Baptist churches doctrine. And you are a liar.
All you have to do Dan to prove me wrong is give the name of your church. But you refuse. Your silence says more than your words.

 

[Phoneman777]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Well said