Are they all different words for the same thing?
Are some more powerful or weaker than others?
Are some more powerful or weaker than others?
Unclean spirit, demon and devil
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes. They were all angels, but there are different ranks. For instances, Michael is an Archangel over Israel. But there are other angels described, some that look very different from the average messenger angel. For instance, Seraphim angels have six wings and are fiery and surround the throne of God. Personally, I believe Gabriel was a messenger angel, not an Archangel. He was fighting an evil Archangel, the Prince of Persia, and couldn't win until Michael came and helped him.
The devil, Satan, was a Cherub. Other Archangels fell with Satan and are called princes, whereas Satan was referred to as a King. Archangels are over countries like the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece in Daniel. Those were pagan countries so have fallen Archangels over them.
I could only speculate if the higher ranking fallen angels are called devils, and the unclean spirit or demons were just angels. All are powerful. Some more than others.
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Demons are the spirits of the Nephilim who died in the flood and left to roam the world as powers of the air, disembodied.
They are the children of fallen angels who took human women as wives. So my view is demons are not fallen angels.
One clue about that is Peter and James say the angels who sinned God locked up in gloomy dungeons to await the judgement of the great DAY, so how can they be free to roam the earth?
Some translations use devils, not 'the Devil' to describe foul unclean spirits
Unclean spirits possess people
What you really have is the creature singular, called the 'Devil' who was a high ranked angel before he fell and God cursed in Eden.
You have maybe a third of the angels who fell and came to the earth to cause mayhem and rule before the flood.
Then you have the demons who were the giants, children of fallen angels whose mothers were human who ruled over men before the flood and corrupted all flesh. Since they were part human, part angel, they had a different fate and were left by God to be the evil unclean spirits who torment sinful mankind.
What I will acknowledge for my thinking is God may have only locked away the fallen angels who took human wives, leaving others free to roam the earth seeking to devour human lives with miseries.
v6 and 7 describe this
Their sin brought on the great flood, partly due to them birthing the Nephilim who must have been spreading and growing across the earth like a plague totally corrupting human DNA, there would be none left who were pure human being as God intended from whom the Christ could be born. So God had to destroy all flesh, and preserved Noah who was described as this perfect in his generations, God had preserved the human race through NOAH's family line alone. All other flesh was corrupted and unsuitable for the Christ to be born of a human women in the future.
Genesis 6:9
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
Jude
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”
v7 saying 'which likewise indulged' points back to the fallen angels who did the same things back before the flood that happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.
They are the children of fallen angels who took human women as wives. So my view is demons are not fallen angels.
One clue about that is Peter and James say the angels who sinned God locked up in gloomy dungeons to await the judgement of the great DAY, so how can they be free to roam the earth?
Some translations use devils, not 'the Devil' to describe foul unclean spirits
Unclean spirits possess people
What you really have is the creature singular, called the 'Devil' who was a high ranked angel before he fell and God cursed in Eden.
You have maybe a third of the angels who fell and came to the earth to cause mayhem and rule before the flood.
Then you have the demons who were the giants, children of fallen angels whose mothers were human who ruled over men before the flood and corrupted all flesh. Since they were part human, part angel, they had a different fate and were left by God to be the evil unclean spirits who torment sinful mankind.
What I will acknowledge for my thinking is God may have only locked away the fallen angels who took human wives, leaving others free to roam the earth seeking to devour human lives with miseries.
v6 and 7 describe this
Their sin brought on the great flood, partly due to them birthing the Nephilim who must have been spreading and growing across the earth like a plague totally corrupting human DNA, there would be none left who were pure human being as God intended from whom the Christ could be born. So God had to destroy all flesh, and preserved Noah who was described as this perfect in his generations, God had preserved the human race through NOAH's family line alone. All other flesh was corrupted and unsuitable for the Christ to be born of a human women in the future.
Genesis 6:9
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
Jude
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”
v7 saying 'which likewise indulged' points back to the fallen angels who did the same things back before the flood that happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What alerted me was the words "and afterwards" meaning it would happen again after the flood. More angels fell and produced Goliath and those other countries that God commanded Israel to destroy, but they didn't obey to do them all. But that is why God commanded even the children to be killed. God wasn't being heartless against humans, just against the abominations.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I used to believe as you do, that Gabriel was fighting a fallen angel. Recently, I read that is an oversimplification. Now, I'm not sure what to believe.
Regarding the OP, I think it is safest to put a big circle around them all and call them 'bad.' We need to remember that our God is more powerful than them and he will not let us fall to their temptations if we appeal to his tender mercies.
I reached the same conclusion myself. These are the "unclean spirits". In the OT, when you follow the word "rapha" through the different places it appears, this are as you say the spirits of the dead nephilim, who are not in sheol, who do not have a resurrection, who go about looking for a body because that's how they were born, with bodies.
Fallen angels wouldn't be described as roaming about arid places looking for a new body to inhabit. Fallen angels are as they were created, suited for their environment.
Much love!
Yes, it all actually makes sense, when you think about it, what scriptures say, it tells you what happened way back in ancient days.
Satan in Genesis 3 heard what the LORD GOD said He would do about the Messiah, Christ to come, how his head Christ would crush. So Satan being in opposition did what he did to try and prevent it. I wonder if Satan thought God would not destroy them with the earth in the flood, anyhow maybe Satan was buying time. I don't see how he could think he could affect God's decrees, but he is a deceiver who has likely deceived himself too.
Seeing how the coming Messiah who was going to be the offspring of the women, of course Satan thought to corrupt the entire human race.
Satan in Genesis 3 heard what the LORD GOD said He would do about the Messiah, Christ to come, how his head Christ would crush. So Satan being in opposition did what he did to try and prevent it. I wonder if Satan thought God would not destroy them with the earth in the flood, anyhow maybe Satan was buying time. I don't see how he could think he could affect God's decrees, but he is a deceiver who has likely deceived himself too.
Seeing how the coming Messiah who was going to be the offspring of the women, of course Satan thought to corrupt the entire human race.
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Genesis 3
13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
for v15
'your seed' the Nephilim
'her Seed', Christ the Lord.
Then we see the beast with the mortal head wound in Revelation
Revelation 13:2-4 New King James Version
2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
for v15
'your seed' the Nephilim
'her Seed', Christ the Lord.
Then we see the beast with the mortal head wound in Revelation
Revelation 13:2-4 New King James Version
2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
Behold
Well-Known Member
Its interesting to note that Jesus said......"and one of you is = A Devil".
And that is the correct translation.
Christ didnt say Judas had one, or that Judas had an unclean spirit, as had that been the case then the Lord would have dealt with that demonic situation.
This was something more...
Satan entered into Judas.
And being a devil, means to me of a type belonging to the devil. One of children of the devil is then a devil too, like father, like son. According to their nature.
- Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 John 3:9-10 King James Version
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Known unto GOD are all things . JESUS KNEW exactly what judas was , when he was chosen .
Jesus knew judas was never gonna come to him in spirit and in truth , in heart . JESUS KNEW .
Pharoah was raised up and destroyed . GOD is in control . My advice is we follow the good examples
and dont let folks try and feel saved when following the bad . WE got us folks saying JUDAS is dancing in heaven .
OH NO HE AINT . BETTER were it for that man IF he had never been born . DONT expect to see judas in glory land is all i can say .
YET JESUS KNEW what he was . JESUS would be betrayed and from one within . JUST as the scriptures Had said .
AND WE should KNOW who inspired the scriptures , cause it sure werent man . KNOWN UNTO GOD IS ALL THINGS .
AND GOD KNOWS what is best for us . SO I SUGGEST we take all his reminders SERIOUS . cause as i said GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS
HE KNOWS HOW to keep a person , a body , a church safe . I SUGGEST we heed ALL REMINDERS . THEY WERE SAID and WRITTEN
for the good of the believer . Lets not follow acroynms , LETS FOLLOW JESUS who is the SAVOIR .
From diabolos, that is, slanderer, false accuser. That can be an human person also.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Get thee behind me satan . JESUS told that to peter . At that time peter was following satan and JESUS rebuked him for it .
YET Judas , NOW he was a child born of darkness . PETER was an apostel who erred , THERE IS A DIFFERENCE .
THOUGH , as i said , TRUE ONES Repent of error , false ones justify error and just continue in darkness .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Let the CHOIR SING . FLEE ANY APPEARANCE of this unity lets get along lie . Oh i know i say it often
but there is good reason i do so . WE have no part nor lott in their matter .
But its a monster my friend . IT cometh in as a child who talks of love all the day long , And yet its love
will not lead a soul to CHRIST , TO GOD , nor is it love . WE BETTER watch out and be on gaurd .
Even a stauch SDA memeber is infected with it and knows it not . But as i said , IF one clings to that which is false
then that one will go into the error of the delusion that now groweth out of control .
WE BETTER KNOW WE KNOW JESUS . WE BETTER LEARN our bibles FOR OURSELVES
and we better test ALL FOLKS .
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes, that verse is true.
However, Jesus said Judas is A Devil, which is different then having a devil, or manifesting one.
Something also to consider...
Sin is the nature of the Devil. And all unbelievers practice sin, and are SINNERS because the Devil, is their spiritual father.
Jesus said, "you are of YOUR FATHER, the devil, and the lusts of YOUR Father, (sin) you will do"., and that is not just the Pharisees.
That is every unbeliever, not born again.
So, Reader.... if you want to explain to your sunday school, or your congregation, the LITERAL meaning of "born again".
It literally means to become the Spiritual Child of a different father...
The person is leaving their original father, the devil, and are born again by another FATHER, who now has become their new eternal one. "abba"
In a sense,
The children of God are gods.
The children of the Devil are devils.
It is to whom they have their allegiance set, their worship, inward nature, who their father is and it also points to their eternal destiny,
John 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 8
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
Born of the flesh only, you are not of God and you do not hear Christ's words, meaning you don't and won't believe in Christ, His words, as you do not have the love of the Father in you.
(John 5), (Not born again) you are perishing and will die in your sins, sharing the same fate as your father the devil.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Born of the Spirit, you are of the Father God, God is your heavenly Father and you heed the words of Christ.
You will share in the blessings God has given to His Son and inherit eternal life.
The children of God are gods.
The children of the Devil are devils.
It is to whom they have their allegiance set, their worship, inward nature, who their father is and it also points to their eternal destiny,
John 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 8
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
Born of the flesh only, you are not of God and you do not hear Christ's words, meaning you don't and won't believe in Christ, His words, as you do not have the love of the Father in you.
(John 5), (Not born again) you are perishing and will die in your sins, sharing the same fate as your father the devil.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Born of the Spirit, you are of the Father God, God is your heavenly Father and you heed the words of Christ.
You will share in the blessings God has given to His Son and inherit eternal life.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Pard , those who pratice sin are OF THE DEVIL , even if they can lip the name of JESUS .
THAT is a fact . I SHOULD KNOW i was KING OF THEM ALL ONCE .
You dont know a tree just by its lips , BUT BY ITS FRUITS .
IF i had a dime for every time a lover of darkness tried to quoate to me they loved JESUS and knew the gospel
George sorros would be envious of me for all my money . THE TREE IS KNOWN BY THE FRUITS IT DOES PRODUCE .
NOT just by what its lips say . THAT is a fact my friend . A FACT . CORRECT ALL SIN WITHIN THE CHURCH
or prepared to be judged on the day of the LORD for the blood of those we did not correct .
A tree aint known by lip service alone . ITS ACTIONS BETTER MATCH ITS LIPS . IF One says they follow JESUS
THEN its seen by their actions . A lipper can lip all the day long and yet walk in darkness and love their sin .
BUT one who lips the name of CHRIST and that from the HEART , HIS ACTIONS ARE GONNA PROVE HE IS OF CHRIST .
FOLLOW means FOLLOW . AND the last time i checked JESUS didnt walk in sin and denfend sin , SO NO LAMB WOULD either .
Lambs might err , BUT lambs repent and lambs are serious against error and sin . LEARN and learn quickly . Be encouraged .
Too many folks follow men , follow another jesus and yet while they can lip the gospel and Christ , they KNOW NIETHER .
While it still would be a stinging rebuke, as "satanas" means "adversary", Jesus was not necessarily addressing Peter as the one we know as Satan.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Rather odd , though , HE does say satan . A point is being made . EITHER WE FOLLOW CHRIST or darkness .
AND if a lamb is in error , YOU CAN BET JESUS REBUKED IT . SO how come todays CHURCHES no longer correct and rebuke
their own erring memebers . OH WAIT , THEY THINK ITS LOVE TO NOT DO SO , JUST HUG and HUGGY HUG HUG .
JESUS DIDNT DO THAT . I Know the apostels didnt do that . SO WHY DO WE . exactly .
I aint the son of perdition just cause i am willing to rebuke , correct and speak out against sin , SPECIALLY SIN WITHIN THE CHURCH .
JESUS DID , the apostels did . SO HOW COME todays its seen as jugmental and non loving . exactly .
MY ENTIRE POINT IS , JESUS CORRECTED SIN and didnt downplay the dangers of error . WHY DO WE .
WHY Do we give sins a pass within the church and worse why do we honor sins within the church . what a abomination
this seeker friendly lie was and is and look what it led too . THEY hugged folks all right
they led them all right , RIGHT TO THE ACCEPTANCE OF SINS and to the DEVIL HIMSELF .
I dont care how many folks hate me because i am serious and do warn . MY desire is only good for those who even hate me .
BUT I am telling us all we been sold a bill of rotted figs in most all churches now and they call it love , BUT IT AINT LOVE , NOR IS IT OF GOD .
SO LET THE CHOIR SING .
Jesus only prays for those the Father has given to Him as believers in Him.
Jesus never prays for Judas, (a devil), but Jesús does pray for Peter.
Matthew 16
Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
33 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”
John 17, and recall the Spirit makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God, Romans 8:27
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
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