Unity of the Faith and of the Knowledge of the Son of God

[marks]

Ephesians 4:11-13
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Is this true? Till we all come to unity? Does this mean we WILL all come to unity? That's how I read this.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Is this true? Till we all come to unity? Does this mean we WILL all come to unity? That's how I read this.

That is how I read it, the following verses being the qualifiers: [Brackets mine]
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [This referring those doctrines that divide us such as predestination and free will, conditional and eternal security, when the rapture is, etc.]
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [this is the fellowship in the church of the saints]
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. [When we all are growing in the direction of sainthood, and know where we are headed, we will edify one another and increase.]

 

[historyb]

Ephesians 4:11-13
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Is this true? Till we all come to unity? Does this mean we WILL all come to unity? That's how I read this.

Much love!

No, I don't think St. Paul was writing in my of 2000 years later when a bunch of humans divided us. I think it is just an expression of speech plus it is a translation so you would have to really have to see exactly what he wrote. Sorry to say but I think you may be grasping at straws here

 

[Nancy]

No, I don't think St. Paul was writing in my of 2000 years later when a bunch of humans divided us. I think it is just an expression of speech plus it is a translation so you would have to really have to see exactly what he wrote. Sorry to say but I think you may be grasping at straws here

I tend to think that the "when" we all come into the unity of the faith is when we see Him as He is...it is just so divided at this time and the pride of so many denominations constantly gets in the way of any unity really. Very sad but not at all surprising. :/

 

[David H.]

I tend to think that the "when" we all come into the unity of the faith is when we see Him as He is...it is just so divided at this time and the pride of so many denominations constantly gets in the way of any unity really. Very sad but not at all surprising. :/

Interesting, I tend to think that "when" we come to the unity of the Spirit, is when we will see Him, in other words, Our seeing Him is dependent on coming to the Unity of the Spirit. What you are saying is that this unity is dependent on His coming If I am not mistaken? I See the division and the Postmodern mindset as essential to the coming unity of the Spirit, a spirit of this age that must be overcome. In effect, You cannot learn a virtue in the presence of that virtue, so you cannot learn patience for example, without the conflict that teaches patience, Or you cannot learn what true love is without first experiencing a lack of love. Unity has to come out of a hunger for that Unity, in the atmosphere of disunity.

Good comment, There is a lot of depth to this idea that i have never though about. God is in control, and despite the lack of unity there is a hope that this is all part of His plan for His church.
God bless.

 

[historyb]

I tend to think that the "when" we all come into the unity of the faith is when we see Him as He is...it is just so divided at this time and the pride of so many denominations constantly gets in the way of any unity really. Very sad but not at all surprising. :/

It also stems from disobedience which started in the 1600's, if Luther had just worked with the Church as it was at the time there would be no denomination. In St. Francis of Assisi time the Church was going off the rails but he was able to get it back without breaking everything up and there are other examples like that. Man just does not want to be obedient at all. The German princes got behind Luther because they want their own way and got it. Here we are today everyone thinking the Bible speaks to them, not really paying attention what the Bible really says. It is sad

 

[Nancy]

Interesting, I tend to think that "when" we come to the unity of the Spirit, is when we will see Him, in other words, Our seeing Him is dependent on coming to the Unity of the Spirit. What you are saying is that this unity is dependent on His coming If I am not mistaken? I See the division and the Postmodern mindset as essential to the coming unity of the Spirit, a spirit of this age that must be overcome. In effect, You cannot learn a virtue in the presence of that virtue, so you cannot learn patience for example, without the conflict that teaches patience, Or you cannot learn what true love is without first experiencing a lack of love. Unity has to come out of a hunger for that Unity, in the atmosphere of disunity.

Good comment, There is a lot of depth to this idea that i have never though about. God is in control, and despite the lack of unity there is a hope that this is all part of His plan for His church. The only hunger I see for unity is that of those with the same beliefs, doctrines, mindsets...nothing for sure here as, again, just my thoughts.

God bless.

Hello David,
"What you are saying is that this unity is dependent on His coming If I am not mistaken?"
That is what I am saying, and...it is only where my thoughts go to as, we couldn't be more divided if we tried! I just cannot see anyone (unless part of the Ecumenism going on) coming united together in these fleshly bodies. The division seems to get worse as time passes. Just a thought :)

 

[David H.]

Hello David,
"What you are saying is that this unity is dependent on His coming If I am not mistaken?"
That is what I am saying, and...it is only where my thoughts go to as, we couldn't be more divided if we tried! I just cannot see anyone (unless part of the Ecumenism going on) coming united together in these fleshly bodies. The division seems to get worse as time passes. Just a thought :)

I Guess I am more of an optimist. I See that unity as a sign of his coming, the final testimony of the work of the Holy Ghost in us, which leads to the events of Revelation 12:10-11. I think the division we see now and increasing is there to separate the wheat and the tares, and eventually unify the body of Christ.

We Will find out soon, me thinks!!

 

[Nancy]

I Guess I am more of an optimist. I See that unity as a sign of his coming, the final testimony of the work of the Holy Ghost in us, which leads to the events of Revelation 12:10-11. I think the division we see now and increasing is there to separate the wheat and the tares, and eventually unify the body of Christ.

We Will find out soon, me thinks!!

" I think the division we see now and increasing is there to separate the wheat and the tares, and eventually unify the body of Christ."
Now, that is something I did not consider. Just thought the separation of wheat and tares would come at the judgement seat but, you could well be correct!