Until the Spirit from on High is Poured Upon Us.

[Ronald Nolette]

Doesn't contradict the church existing on that same rock who is Christ. The Greek word does not only mean new construction but any work done to a building as well as many metaphorical meanings. .

G3618
οἰκοδομέω
oikodomeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to build a house, erect a building
1a) to build (up from the foundation)
1b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair
2) metaphorically
2a) to found, establish
2b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness
2c) to grow in wisdom and piety
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the same as G3619

But you forget the rest of Scripture. If that was the only thing you have a point. but Jesus spoke of that construction as future and not present or continuing.

And we know from Paul being inspired that entrance into the body of Christ (the church) is by Spirit baptism, and that first occurred at Pentecost. Yes the Apostles and disciples were the seed for the birth of the church but it was not yet.

 

[ewq1938]

But you forget the rest of Scripture. If that was the only thing you have a point. but Jesus spoke of that construction as future and not present or continuing.

Simply adding to what already existed. The church started in the OT anyways.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Simply adding to what already existed. The church started in the OT anyways.

Well then you say Jesus doesn't know grammar well, which is kind of silly seeing as He created grammar.

If Jesus said, "on this rock" I will continue, or keep building or add on to my church, I would 100% agree with you.

But Jesus said "on this rock, I WILL build my church" future. I will take Jesus word for this.

The verb will build is future active indicative 1st person singular.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But we know that even having Abraham as a direct ancestor, does not ensure salvation

Nobody is saying that is does.

That does not mean Israel is God's chosen people because they will forever be.

The Word tells us salvation is to the Jew first and then to the gentile. (Romans 1:16)

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24)

The true people of God are the ones who have the faith that Abraham had. Galatians 3:26-29

And yet... God re-established the Nation of Israel in 1948 ad He said He would... and is bringing the descendants of Abraham back in to the Land... and when Jesus return He will be saving the descendants of Abraham in the Land of Isreal as they finally accept Jesus as their Messiah.

When you have failed to understand is that God promised Abraham that He would bless His descendants and God always keeps His promises. We know Christians have not replaced Israel because of...

Romans 11:14
If by any means I may provoke to jealousy them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

The Lord still loves the descendants of Abraham and is still working to get them to come home.

No BBJ, I listen to the Words of Jesus< Matthew 8:12, +
Thinking that the Jews are still the chosen people of God, cannot be right as their gods are not the Creator God of the Bible. Revelation 2:9

And yet.... they are still His chosen people and they are currently backsliden.

The Lord has done many miracles to help modern day Israel to not only survive, but to thrive in the land.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The church started in the OT anyways.

The Body of Christ is the Church and it did not start until Jesus came and brought with Him the New Covenant.

 

[Earburner]

The Body of Christ is the Church and it did not start until Jesus came and brought with Him the New Covenant.

I can agree with that, because Israel of faith were looking for the Promise of Messiah to come. We see that faith in the gospels about Nathaniel and Simeon, not to mention all those centuries past, back to Moses and Abraham. For them who died in faith of "the Promise", while under the OC., God had "their names written in a Book of Remembrance"- Malachi 3:16.

In Rev. 6:9-11, we are shown quite clearly that God DID NOT forget them, and therefore they are NOW written in "The book of Life".

Though many today still do not understand, THEY ARE the firstfruits unto God, being the figurative 144,000 of Israel, who lived and died, while "UNDER" the OC.

Today, there is no such thing of there being a future 144,000 under the NT.
Because of Rom. 10:12, ALL Jews must now come to God through faith in Jesus to be saved.
And for those who do, they will be found in "The Great Multitude" of the church, and nowhere else!!

 

[covenantee]

And yet.... they are still His chosen people and they are currently backsliden.

Numbers 25
1 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel.
4 And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.
5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Were they His chosen people?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Were they His chosen people?

Just like Christians today under the New Covenant... we are God's people UNLESS we back slide and turn away from the Lord, and then... we not no longer His peoples.

It's Christians responsibility to confess and forsake their sin to get back in right standing with the Lord if they sin against the Lord... and the same is true with the descendants of Abraham as well and of course they'll have to come thru Jesus now that the New Covenant is here.

This does not change the fact that....

The Word tells us salvation is to the Jew first and then to the gentile. (Romans 1:16)

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24)

 

[covenantee]

Just like Christians today under the New Covenant... we are God's people UNLESS we back slide and turn away from the Lord, and then... we not no longer His peoples.

It's Christians responsibility to confess and forsake their sin to get back in right standing with the Lord if they sin against the Lord... and the same is true with the descendants of Abraham as well and of course they'll have to come thru Jesus now that the New Covenant is here.

True. So salvation has nothing to do with physical DNA, and everything to do with spiritual DNA. 24,000 slain pedigreed Jews demonstrated that.

Spiritual DNA. Two genes.

Faith and obedience.

And nothing else.

 

[Earburner]

Romans 11:14
If by any means I may provoke to jealousy them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Which is saying that many of the so called "chosen" ARE GOING TO BE LOST, if they died without having faith in Christ.
Rom. 8:9 applies to Israel, just as equal as it does to the Gentiles.

 

[Keraz]

And yet.... they are still His chosen people and they are currently backsliden.

The Lord has done many miracles to help modern day Israel to not only survive, but to thrive in the land.

Many Prophesies tell of the virtual demise of the House of Judah, the Jews. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27, Jeremiah 8:6-13, +
They lost the Kingdom when they killed Jesus, Matthew 21:43 and now only a few Messianic Jews will go with the faithful Christians into the Millennium.

Yes; the Jewish State of Israel, [a misnomer] has had supernatural help. But was it from the Creator God, or from the current ruler of this world? Matthew 4"8-9 proves who that ruler is now and it is he who the Jews follow. Revelation 2:9

You are trapped in the great lie of the 'rapture to heaven' theory. This unbiblical belief has to have the Jews undergoing tribulation, while the Christians sit it out in heaven and return with Jesus.
This fable is total error and will never happen.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You are trapped in the great lie of the 'rapture to heaven' theory. This unbiblical belief has to have the Jews undergoing tribulation, while the Christians sit it out in heaven and return with Jesus.
This fable is total error and will never happen.

Well, enjoy being in opposition to the descendants of Abraham... it's your funeral buddy!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Which is saying that many of the so called "chosen" ARE GOING TO BE LOST, if they died without having faith in Christ.
Rom. 8:9 applies to Israel, just as equal as it does to the Gentiles.

I never said or implied the Jews can get saved without Jesus.

None the less, the descendants of Abraham are God's chosen people

The gifts and calling of God are without repentance, and the Lord keeps His promises.

 

[covenantee]

I never said or implied the Jews can get saved without Jesus.

None the less, the descendants of Abraham are God's chosen people

The gifts and calling of God are without repentance, and the Lord keeps His promises.

Without Christ, they are no more chosen than anyone else without Christ.

The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ: His Beloved Election, His true Holy Chosen People: His Church.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts are bestowed exclusively upon His Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His gifts are without repentance.


To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


God's calling is directed exclusively to His Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His calling is without repentance.

 

[ewq1938]

The Body of Christ is the Church and it did not start until Jesus came and brought with Him the New Covenant.

That's the new covenant church. The church existed in the old covenant as well. Plus, the NC started at the death of Christ, before Pentecost.

 

[Earburner]

That's the new covenant church. The church existed in the old covenant as well. Plus, the NC started at the death of Christ, before Pentecost.

Did you know that each of those, who lived and died under the OC., in faith believing of "the Promise to come", were not "sealed" by God's Holy Spirit until AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus?
John 7
[38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet GIVEN; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

In the book of Rev. 6:9-11, you can see them of the OC. there, whereof their names were then translated from the "Book of Remembrance" (Malachi 3:16) and into "the Lamb's Book of Life". God did not forget them whom He "remembered", that lived and died under the OC.
These ARE the 144,000 of OC. Israel.