Until the Spirit from on High is Poured Upon Us.

[Earburner]

This idea is wrong because you cannot say Moses and Abraham did not have the Holy Spirit and once having it, are never said to lose it.

Since you have brought the concept of the permanency of God's indwelling Holy Spirit, back to Moses and Abraham, it must be that I go back to Creation, and the Garden experience again.

The first severe form of misunderstanding by "church-ianity", is to falsely believe that Adam was given "an eternal soul", in the day of his creation.
KJV Gen. 2:7 says that man "became a living soul", which is equal to all animal life (nephesh) which also breathes "the breath of life", which at that time was unknown to Moses, as being nothing more than "Oxygenated air". KJV Gen. 6:17; Gen. 7:15, 22.

Plan A of God (Elohim-plural):
The deepest desire of God the Father (who is Holy Spirit only) has always been, that He could permanently dwell within His creation of Adam and Eve. Not that they should have Him to do so unwillingly, but rather by the free will of their own choice, through the innocence of Adam and Eve, in the day of their creation. Hence God's reasoning for the presence of the two choices of trees in the Garden, being that of The Tree of Life (the Mind and will of the Preincarnate Christ) and The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (the mind and will of their own "natural man").

Plan B of God (Elohim- plural):
As we all know, in God's mind, the wrong tree was chosen first, which thwarted God's deepest desire to be able to permanently dwell within them, when they were in their innocense.

Having now lost their innocense of mind in their own free will, the results of Adam & Eve's action of choice, was for God to take His first action with "Plan B", which was for them to be barred from having access to the Tree of Life, lest they live forever, having their own free will of choice, along with their new "knowledge of good and evil".
Without the presence of Eternal life, from the Tree of Life within them, the inevitable and eventual results was eternal DEATH, being "condemned (judged) already".
KJV John 3:18...."Already"??
Yes! It's the results of NOT having the Gift of God's Holy Spirit. John 7:39; Rom. 8:9.
Edit:
So then, WHEN was the Gift of the Holy Spirit given (made available) to men/people of faith in Jesus, who was Himself "the Promise to come"?
Clue: in the the NT, there are 34 verses of scripture about "the Promise" that was to come.
(2B Cont'd)....

 

[Earburner]

No, because they are sealed while alive prior to the tribulation which places them within the new covenant making them Christians of Jewish/Israelite descent. It is church-ianity that teaches the opposite of this, and what the bible presents.

That of your belief, is a fabrication of "church-ianity", aka "the wisdom of men", THAT YOU have allowed to take root in your mind. 1 Cor. 2:5.
Subconsciously, you have deemed it to be so that men of "religious training" are of more value, than that of the Holy Spirit, who is the mind of Christ that dwells within you. Rom. 8:8; 1 Cor. 2:13-16.

 

[rwb]

The Church is a holy nation? Thats a new one.

The Church is a vast conglomeration of denominations, sects and cults.
The Holy Nation is every true faithful Christian individual, who could be members of any of the above, or just loners.
This truth is proved by how there are some people who are Overcomers in each of the seven Churchs of Revelation 2 and 3. The rest, presumably; are not true Christians. The ones Jesus says are lukewarm, etc.

Yes, the Church as She appears on this earth called saints, are the holy nation of God.

1 Peter 2:8-10 (KJV) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The Church as the holy nation on this earth is no different than God's holy nation, called Israel of Old. They too were a mixture of both those of faith and those in unbelief.

The Church as She exists in time on this earth shall never be without spot, altogether righteous, and pure. There will not be a time coming on this earth when there will be a holy people without sin. Because as long as humans are clothed in bodies of flesh destined to die, there will always be those among us who stumble at the Word.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Until the Spirit from on High is Poured Upon Us.​

Sure, no rush. Most of the Christians simply passively wait until the Spirit from on High is poured upon them, while being busy with making a living.

But, there are also some smart Christians, who instead of passively waiting, are actively doing a simple Christian meditation, which we discuss in the following thread on this forum:

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/christian-meditation-and-interfaith-dialog.60309/



.

 

[Reddsta]

Just a some thoughts…interesting subject Covenantee…please permit me…

Has the Church replaced Israel's physical DNA? No.

“No”…is an acceptable answer…because…it had nothing to do with the “church”. However…the Lord Yahshua Christ unilaterally “replaced Israel’s physical DNA”…with His own “Spirit”…thus bringing forth the actual dwelling place for the Holy Spirit…in His temple, His people…the Body of Christ.

Has the Church replaced the room at the Cross for anyone of Israel wishing to receive Christ? No.

Again “no” is a good answer…and it should be noted that once “anyone of Israel…or any other nation” for that matter…is received into Christ…they are no longer identified by the “physical, ethnic, fleshly” attributes that define the mere human…they have been made a part of the “One New Man” who is a “Spirit.”

The natural physical and ethnic elements though they be present (human)…are no longer how the “sons of God” identify. They identify as Spirit…not as flesh…this is a whole different reality.

In other words…no one enters the kingdom of God unless they first are “born of the water and the Spirit.” Nationality, gender, status…no longer qualifies anyone…for the kingdom of God…nope…being born of “promise…by coming up out of the word (water) and the infilling of the Holy Spirit…meaning the enlightening of a man’s existent spirit within the man…is the only way in."

It has been this way since the Pentecost following our Lords ascension…

Redd...

 

[Reddsta]

Has the Church replaced any opportunity for anyone of Israel to receive Christ? No.

Well that may depend upon ones perspective…didn’t Keraz define the church in this manner…”The Church is a vast conglomeration of denominations, sects and cults.” If one were to agree with him…and I do in this…then one might be inclined to answer “yes” to your question here Covenantee

Redd...

 

[Reddsta]

Your "replacement theology" is total tripe.

This thing gets way too much attention…it is ridiculous as well.

God who…before “He” even threw “His” creation into it existence…new exactly how His creation would be initialized, transpire and come to its end. To think anything else is the pure folly of the carnal and immature.

His original intention…or the purpose for which He put creation in place…and subsequently man in it…was for one singular purpose…His own personal desire…which…as He told Moses…was to “make man in His image and likeness.”

Did Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David or any of the kings or prophets including Israel and the Lord Yahshua Christ ever fulfill or complete God’s original intention??? Well if they would have…this creation would have come to its end ya’ll…which…is exactly how the end of this creation of the heavens and the earth will…indeed…come to its end.

It ends with the utter fulfillment of God’s passionate intention to be “seen, felt, touched by, and experienced in His creation” by humanity via humanity…and that is exactly what He has been doing and will continue to do. I urge all to dig into this for your own benefit.

Our God and Father of creation has been steadily moving His creation along exactly as He had determined within Himself...from a "time" before He even established it. In fact He is still revealing things hidden away in Himself for these long ages past and will continue to do so until He has completed what He means to do. Spiritually deceived false religion simply cannot come to grips with this Truth...I hope that is not you?

When this…“Man who is in the image and likeness of God”…who incidentally is known by the Father as the “Son of God”…who is a perfect man…a mature man...to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ…and who is no longer a child…who is speaking the truth in love and is growing up in all things…into Him who is the head…Christ…when He appears and He is closer that most realize…then you will know that the final appearing of the Lord Yahshua Christ and the end of this creation is near.

Does this sound like or speak of the rebellious idol worshipping carnal fleshly natural nation of Israel in any possible way? So…if there is such a thing as “replacement theology” it would likely be God the Fathers doing and He was doing it long before there was ever an Israel that could be replaced.

Perhaps that may add some “light” to this replacement theology…maybe not?

Redd...

 

[covenantee]

Well that may depend upon ones perspective…didn’t Keraz define the church in this manner…”The Church is a vast conglomeration of denominations, sects and cults.” If one were to agree with him…and I do in this…then one might be inclined to answer “yes” to your question here Covenantee

Redd...

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That's how Jesus defined His Church, built upon Himself.

No "vast conglomeration of denominations, sects and cults".

I agree with Him.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes; the Israel of God, not those who claim to be Israel.
Thinking anything else, is a direct contradiction of NT teaching of how Salvation is available to all who will accept it.

The Israel of God are Jews who are saved. Not any Gentiles who get saved.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, Ronald, there isn't much chance of us agreeing on what will happen, which will start very soon.
As for insults, one of us is deceived and if you are not raptured, it will be very difficult for you. Vice/versa: I don't object to going to heaven, but harp practice - not for me.

Well as I don't believe in harp practice that is just foolishness on your part.

Yes one of us is wrong and time will tall.

And sorry but your crystal ball has failed you. Should I be wrong and there is no rapture, I will serve my Savior with Joy! but I look forward to going to heaven and being given my place in my Fathers house!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The disciples were the church, which existed before that day.

No. for the entrance into teh body of christ is spirit baptism, which first occurred at Pentecost.

Remember what jesus said:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus spoke of the future not the present. and that future became reality at Pentecost.

 

[covenantee]

The Israel of God are Jews who are saved. Not any Gentiles who get saved.

Not in historical true Christian orthodoxy.

For seventeen centuries, the historical true Christian Church was of one voice in declaring that the Israel of God was His Church, comprised of all who are in Christ, where "there is neither Jew nor Greek".

What to believe?

1. Seventeen centuries of historical true Christian orthodoxy.
or
2. Two centuries of modernist racialized dispensational delusion and denial.

Who needs a hint?

 

[ewq1938]

No. for the entrance into teh body of christ is spirit baptism, which first occurred at Pentecost.

Remember what jesus said:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus spoke of the future not the present. and that future became reality at Pentecost.

The church started with the disciples. Pentecost was when the church grew larger.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, the Church as She appears on this earth called saints, are the holy nation of God.

1 Peter 2:8-10 (KJV) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The Church as the holy nation on this earth is no different than God's holy nation, called Israel of Old. They too were a mixture of both those of faith and those in unbelief.

The Church as She exists in time on this earth shall never be without spot, altogether righteous, and pure. There will not be a time coming on this earth when there will be a holy people without sin. Because as long as humans are clothed in bodies of flesh destined to die, there will always be those among us who stumble at the Word.

By faith in Christ, we are made to be sin-LESS before God the Father.
However, we all do know that none of us are sin-FREE before each other.

Thanks be to God for His Grace to us, by the sacrificial shed blood of His Son!

 

[Keraz]

Does this sound like or speak of the rebellious idol worshipping carnal fleshly natural nation of Israel in any possible way?

It is glaringly obvious that the Jewish State of Israel is not the people God wants in His Holy Land.
It is also clear from many Bible Prophesies, that who God does want in His Holy Land, will be the faithful Christian peoples.

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will return to have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people:

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites- Overcomers for God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way, Jesus: John 14:6, Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 4:3, Matthew 8:12

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16
God will pour His Spirit upon them: Ezekiel 38:29, Joel 2:28-29, Isaiah 60:20-21

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The church started with the disciples. Pentecost was when the church grew larger.

Matthew 16:18

King James Version

​

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus already had His disciples, and He said in the future tense He will build His church, not has started or is building His church. It was the infilling of the Holy Spirit that one becomes a member of the church as is clearly spelled out in the epistles. This first occurred at Pentecost.

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew 16:18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus already had His disciples, and He said in the future tense

Doesn't contradict the church existing on that same rock who is Christ. The Greek word does not only mean new construction but any work done to a building as well as many metaphorical meanings. .

G3618
οἰκοδομέω
oikodomeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to build a house, erect a building
1a) to build (up from the foundation)
1b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair
2) metaphorically
2a) to found, establish
2b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness
2c) to grow in wisdom and piety
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the same as G3619

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Your insistence of an ethnic people being Gods special peoples, is totally out of line with Bible teaching.

You think the descendants of Abraham never existed?

Jesus is a Jew according to the flesh... did you read where we was in the loins of Abraham and about his lineage as being one of Abraham's descendants?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is glaringly obvious that the Jewish State of Israel is not the people God wants in His Holy Land.

You must have been listening to all those liberals who hate Jewish people

 

[Keraz]

You think the descendants of Abraham never existed?

Sure they do. According to the mathematical laws of genetic dilution, every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes.
But we know that even having Abraham as a direct ancestor, does not ensure salvation. Paul made that perfectly clear in Ephesians 2:11-18

The true people of God are the ones who have the faith that Abraham had. Galatians 3:26-29

Jesus is a Jew according to the flesh... did you read where we was in the loins of Abraham and about his lineage as being one of Abraham's descendants?

Jesus was born into the kingly tribe of Judah, He is the final and ultimate King of the world.

You must have been listening to all those liberals who hate Jewish people

No BBJ, I listen to the Words of Jesus< Matthew 8:12, +
Thinking that the Jews are still the chosen people of God, cannot be right as their gods are not the Creator God of the Bible. Revelation 2:9