US police shoot dead boy, 12, holding replica gun

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Angelina

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This is shocking...
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/25591622/us-police-shoot-dead-boy-12-holding-replica-gun/

I doubt that it would be safe for any kid to play with a "fake gun" [as the reporter called it] in public. The boy was probably trying to take the gun out and throw it to the ground before he was shot. He probably did not intend to point it at the officer at all.

We don't have gun carrying Police in our country but we do have an "Armed Offenders Squad" that gets called out when the situation arises. This is usually when it has been established that an offender is carrying or letting off a fire arm. I think the Police there have gotten out of hand due to past school ground shootings...This has equated in to shooting kids who even look like they could be a threat. Sad!!! :unsure:
 

Born_Again

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I was a Chief of Police. Though I never had to shoot anyone, I had my gun drawn many times. It's a tough call to make but our focus was to make sure we went home that night. You have less than a second to decide to shoot or not. A lot to weigh out in that small amount of time. Since I wasnt there, I cant say if the officer was correct or not. I may have handled it the same, or completely different. You just dont know until youre in that situation.
 

Angelina

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Hmmm...would you think for a moment that a kid could be carrying a fake gun? If you thought the kid had a real gun...would you not shoot to wound because he is a kid rather than to kill? Why would you shoot a 12 year old dead???
 

Born_Again

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Police are simply not trained to wound. They are trained to shoot to kill. I was raised to never point any kind of gun (toy or not) at the police. With the world these days, you cant take that chance if it is real or not. I can guarentee that cop is not doing well emotionally. He most likely did not want to do it, but felt he had to. It's the What If's. What if it was real? Could he take that chance? He's has to protect himself. But I'm sure he is giong to be in counseling after this.... Especially if he has kids of his own,
 

Angelina

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Perhaps that kid decided to take his dads or family members gun to the park to show off...His family probably didn't even know he had it. To be totally honest, I doubt that the officer will get to court for this shooting as it is all in the line of duty...The boy would not have had the maturity to recognize that he needed to do what the officer had asked him to do because it was going to cost him his life ....but someone out there has lost a kid... :unsure:

It's just so sad...
 

Born_Again

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You are very correct. Situations like this one,,,, no one wins. A child was lost and he has to live with killing a child. It is a very sad situation. Both families need prayers to get through this. If it doesnt go to criminal court it will most likely go to a civil court, depending on the family of the kid. They can always file a wrongful death suit or something...
 

sojourner4Christ

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Angelina, you may find the following to be edifying and useful in your walk with the King. My intent is not to bring a gun control debate to this thread. My intent is to expose a conditioning tactic that employs deception to coerce your compliance with an ungodly agenda.

However, there is something more shocking, more devious, than meets the eye here. I will explain.

In 2007, the Lord opened all the closed doors and shifted my family and me from America to New Zealand, where we presently sojourn. So I get to see the issue from the perspectives of two nations.

I doubt that it would be safe for any kid to play with a "fake gun" [as the reporter called it] in public.
... a sad yet astute comment in these last days. However, soon, any appearances of private firearms will be persecuted, and all private ownership of firearms will be forbidden - universally abolished.

We don't have gun carrying Police in our country but we do have an "Armed Offenders Squad" that gets called out when the situation arises.
It’s the same diff. While they are careful not to rub your nose in the private firearms abolishment plan that is at the door, the visible NZ Police Department is taking the preemptive NWO lead in setting the example by not carrying in public. They still maintain massive firepower -- but you are not allowed to see it because such would be politically incorrect and run counter to the global elimination agenda.

I think the Police there have gotten out of hand due to past school ground shootings...This has equated in to shooting kids who even look like they could be a threat. Sad!!!
Numerous hoaxes to condition the public are regularly implemented to further the world government’s (United Nations’) plan of global elimination of private firearms. Note, for example, the Sandy Hook PsyOp (psychological operation), in which zero people died, was previously exposed here. Recall Australia's Port Moresby.

As an indication of the agenda behind those non-carrying public NZPD officers, let’s check out the New Zealand Police Arms Manual. It is 160 pages in length and is found on the New Zealand Police website here.

Load it up and scroll down a bit to the last page of the table of contents (page 15), where you will find the title of the Manual’s final chapter, Section 19: Universal Registration of Firearms. Notice that, strangely, there are no subheadings, no page numbers, no further information listed, for this final chapter of the Manual!

Next, scroll down to the last page of the entire document (page 160), to the page titled Section 19: Universal Registration of Firearms. This is where the actual contents of the previously listed Section 19 would be found. Again, notice that there is no additional information whatsoever listed for that chapter!

The word Universal appears only twice in the Arms Manual, and I’ve just shown you both of those appearances. The word is used in the title of Chapter 19, of 19 total chapters. But there’s nothing there (yet) in that final chapter!

So, Angelina, what do you think those in NZ who drafted this document are waiting for to insert into that "empty" chapter?

The New Zealand government is in full compliance with the agenda of the emerging world government in the form of the United Nations. New Zealand has been a Member State of the United Nations since 1945!

The bottom-line agenda that NZ is following is thus: The world's smaller nations are to turn 100% of their armies over to the under-secretary of the UN Security Council. Of course, private firearms ownership is a definite no-no.

You can easily discover for yourself EXACTLY where NZ stands in the United Nations’ agenda of private firearms elimination by checking the chart here.

Now you know why the NZ police don’t carry in public, and also why they (and virtually all nations) will swiftly “eliminate” any perceived threats to the dictates of the UN’s nefarious agenda.
 

Angelina

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So, Angelina, what do you think those in NZ who drafted this document are waiting for to insert into that "empty" chapter?
I am not sure but I am under no illusion that there are nations allied under the UN agenda. I'm just not sure whether our nation has made specific decisions deliberately or whether it was driven by public consensus :huh:

Now you know why the NZ police don’t carry in public, and also why they (and virtually all nations) will swiftly “eliminate” any perceived threats to the dictates of the UN’s nefarious agenda.
I'm still not totally convinced that the reasons our Police officers don't carry guns is because of the UN agenda. There have been past debates over whether our officers should carry guns. In 2010 a public poll was conducted which did not support Police in NZ carrying firearms. In 2013 the Nielsen survey authorized by the NZ Police Association showed a significant drop in support.
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/drop-in-support-police-carrying-guns-5577220

We follow along the lines of the British Policing traditions...
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-cops-in-britain-and-new-zealand-dont-carry-guns-2014-10

Based on International models; " All major police forces in Europe, as well as the US, Canada and Australia routinely carry firearms, says Prof Peter Waddington. The exceptions are Britain, the Irish Republic, and New Zealand. In Norway officers carry arms in their cars but not on their person, he says.

New Zealand has adopted an armed response model similar to Britain, says the International Law Enforcement Forum. There was considerable debate there in 2010 when two officers were shot, and commissioner Peter Marshall wrote: "International experience shows that making firearms more accessible raises certain risks that are very difficult to control."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398
 

lforrest

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It probably isn't a good idea to let your kids have replica guns in an urban setting, in case they decide to take it outside.
 

sojourner4Christ

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I am not sure but I am under no illusion that there are nations allied under the UN agenda. I'm just not sure whether our nation has made specific decisions deliberately or whether it was driven by public consensus
It doesn’t matter how the agenda is accomplished, only that it indeed be accomplished. However, the ideal situation for the perp’s would be for the public to scream for it e.g. scripture’s ‘Save us!’, they cried to Caesar. The slaves who work the hardest are those who believe they are free.

All manner of mind control (“psy ops”) are being perpetrated 24/7 to get us to do it to ourselves. This is because Satan operates in dishonor, thus he requires us to exercise our free-will to move away from/step off the Foundation that is Christ. I don’t worry about “the gov’t” jack-booted thugs kicking my door in because I am growing my own food for my family (as has occurred in USA and such legislation is pending in NZ); rather, I am concerned with my so-called neighbor who dobs me in to the State for not keeping my lawn trimmed to his expectations. John 16:2 comes to mind. Adolph Hitler handed out an extra week’s food rations to those who snitched out their neighbors. The difficult part for decent folks like you is in believing that there exists a group of people who are fundamentally involved in perpetuating evil.

I'm still not totally convinced that the reasons our Police officers don't carry guns is because of the UN agenda. There have been past debates over whether our officers should carry guns. In 2010 a public poll was conducted which did not support Police in NZ carrying firearms. In 2013 the Nielsen survey authorized by the NZ Police Association showed a significant drop in support.
There you have it. “Debates,” “public polls,” and “Nielsen surveys” are simply more conditioning tools to desensitize you, in the present example, to the eventuality of universal disarmament of the populace.

The Six- Step Attitudinal Change Plan

Step 1. Some practice so offensive that it can scarcely be discussed in public is advocated by a RESPECTED expert in a RESPECTED forum.

Step 2. At first, the public is shocked, then outraged.

Step 3. But, the VERY FACT that such a thing could be publicly debated becomes the SUBJECT of the debate.

Step 4. In the process, sheer repetition of the shocking subject under discussion gradually dulling its effect.

Step 5. People then are no longer shocked by the subject.

Step 6. No longer outraged, people begin to argue for positions to moderate the extreme; or, they accept the premise, challenging, instead, the means to ACHIEVE it.

This insidious method of changing the deeply-held attitudes of people is being successfully directed toward the population as a whole. Millions of people are experiencing attitudinal changes on a wide variety of subjects today. This attitudinal change is essential to achieving the New World Order.

We follow along the lines of the British Policing traditions...
“We”? Funny, isn’t it, how we adopt the dictates of the State as our own? It’s all a part of the plan.

Based on International models; " All major police forces in Europe, as well as the US, Canada and Australia routinely carry firearms, says Prof Peter Waddington. The exceptions are Britain, the Irish Republic, and New Zealand. In Norway officers carry arms in their cars but not on their person, he says. New Zealand has adopted an armed response model similar to Britain, says the International Law Enforcement Forum.
Of course, as Britain serves as the absolute epicenter of global control. NZ is a huge social experiment in progress -- very Brit-ish. Abortion, gambling, and prostitution are legal in NZ. And with only ~4 million people, any agenda “setbacks” can be contained and “remediated.” Unlike USA, they don’t vette the firearm in NZ; they vette the firearm owner. NZ is very “NWO.”

And you can forget the “exceptions” per the talking head “Prof Peter Addington;” those “exceptions” are the new norm! Rather, in law, what has the NZ officiating body adopted to follow? Again, exactly where NZ stands, in law, in relation to the United Nations’ agenda of private firearms elimination, can be found by checking the chart here.

There was considerable debate there in 2010 when two officers were shot, and commissioner Peter Marshall wrote: "International experience shows that making firearms more accessible raises certain risks that are very difficult to control."
“Universal”/“International”/etc. -- take your pick of conditioning buzz words. Public "debates"/meetings are held as desensitizing tools, when the agenda is less likely to be accepted outright by the masses. And the outcomes of these "debates" are treated as irrelevant by those in control because it truly IS irelevant to them. They proceed thereafter as they wished, in every instance-- armed with even further knowledge of their "enemy."

In any case, they sometimes slip up and reveal their hand to the diligent ala the NZPD’s incomplete/“blank” chapter on “Universal Registration of Firearms” as found in their Police Arms Manual.

Knowledge blows fear away. But without a performance of due diligence, or a clear solution being offered or suggested, the OP unknowingly perpetuates the injustice and fear so vital to the agenda of those to whom the majority has unwittingly submitted.
 

HammerStone

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There are a couple things here.

First and foremost, the life of a twelve year old boy was estinguished. That is a son, grandson, maybe a brother, and many other things to many folks. It's a tragedy and further example of a broken world where things happen be they accidental or intentional that hurt people and end lives. Let us all draw nearer to God as we further understand this. My heart and prayers go out to the family and to the community!!

However, there are some things I noted in this short story. Number one, the gun looks real. It's not clearly indicated that the gun is a fake. To my knowledge all toy guns are supposed to have some sort of orange or other flourescent color to clearly denote it's not real. Personally, the child should have had a gun that looks like a real one period. When I was a child, my parents taught me about guns early. My grandfather had an old replica cap gun that a cousin of mine picked up one day, and I ran and got an adult (I was 7 or 8 at the time) because people in my family had real guns and I was taught to stay away from them.

This is not pinning this on the parents by any stretch, but I am pointing out that I was not an exceptional child to recognize the gun meant danger. It's not much different than drilling your child to understand that playing in a road could hurt them.

Secondly, the police officers should have been informed that it was likely a fake, or at least reported as such. That was a failure of procedure and that information may have changed how the officers handled the situation. To me, this is the most glaring detail in the whole thing.

Lastly, I do not buy that the 12 year old could not understand the police. I am sorry, but we put a number of things on children - for instance, this child is declared old enough in most school systems to be taught about homosexuality, condoms, and other things - so this child is old enough to understand that he should listen to police. Again, if the police instruct me to do something, even if I think it's dumb and heavy-handed, I comply. Much less when they have guns drawn or appear to be drawing.

My parents were pulled for speeding when I was a child. The deputy approached the car with his hand on his gun (you could see the child's seat in the back) and this really miffed my parents. However, my father held his hands where the deputy could see them on the steering wheel and then later complained about how he made him felt. Yes, this was an adult in this case, but you get the point. Again, children should be educated to obey authorities to a reasonable level. 12 years old is old enough to do this.

As far as all officers carrying guns and how America handles guns in general...I understand there are some cultural issues. However, every gun owner I personally know has never irresponsibly discharged a weapon and they all keep them from children in a safe and secure manner. America is not Great Britain, New Zealand, or anything else. We are not a homogenous culture or even a culture with a very large majority anymore that thinks the same. There are distinct cultural dynamics at play in all of this that do not make it as a simple as simply removing guns.

Again, it cannot be overstated that this is terrible, but there are things at play here beyond an officer making a bad judgment in the blink of an eye. If you have what looks to be a real gun pointed at you, you're not necessarily going to have enough time to determine if its real or not, especially when it looks very real. The fear that a police officer has when a gun is pointed at him, is the same that's true in the inverse. Training should take over and the proper habits be instilled, but this is not something you can just Monday morning QB.
 

sojourner4Christ

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The salient point from the OP is:



I think the Police there have gotten out of hand due to past school ground shootings...This has equated in to shooting kids who even look like they could be a threat. Sad!!!
And a salient response might be:

Who is behind the proliferation of the "school ground shootings" pretexts (proven hoaxes and all)?

Even now, that same entity would consider some posts of forum contributors to be just as threatrening to its agenda as that 12 year old boy toting a toy gun. Indeed, hired gov't shills prowl sites such as this to manipulate public opinion. They want to you to buy the lie that the gun is the problem.

So much for our conditioned understanding of the NZPD's current non-carry policy, and for their evaluation of those "who even look like they could be a threat." Who's next on their Hit List? And why?
 

Angelina

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HS I agree that there is a cultural issue involved as most American kids would be learned about gun safety since most have grown up with them and it's part of the constitution. I was just pointing out how terrible it is that a kid is shot. It is a lose, lose situation and the people involved would have to live with the results for the rest of their lives... :unsure:
 

sojourner4Christ

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I was just pointing out how terrible it is that a kid is shot. It is a lose, lose situation and the people involved would have to live with the results for the rest of their lives...
Actually, it's a "win" for the purported authority. Don't think for a milisecond that "they" (the global elite manipulating the agenda at the top) value life (while the police, like Hitler's troops who knocked on doors at 4am and took people to camps, torture, and death, would say "we're just doing our jobs").

There is a form of obedience which leads to death. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? - Romans 6:16. Which "master" have we voluntarily chosen to follow and thus render unto? Lately we've seen the results of that obesiance in the form of a dead child.
 

Angelina

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Of course, as Britain serves as the absolute epicenter of global control. NZ is a huge social experiment in progress -- very Brit-ish. Abortion, gambling, and prostitution are legal in NZ. And with only ~4 million people, any agenda “setbacks” can be contained and “remediated.” Unlike USA, they don’t vette the firearm in NZ; they vette the firearm owner. NZ is very “NWO.”
S4C - the social issues you have pointed out are also legal in other countries including the US. I think it is wiser to vette the firearm owner rather than the firearm...Firearms have never gotten up by themselves to wreak havoc on humanity... :huh: NZ is an independent democratic state and a constitutional monarchy, under the Westminster system of government.

New Zealand along with Israel and Britain are the only countries in the world who do not have a "full and entrenched" written constitution. Various sources although seemingly pervasive, include prerogative powers of the Queen, statutes, various Acts and relevant British and UK statutes incorporated into NZ law ie; "The Magna Carta and also the Treaty of Waitangi.

...If this country is sooo NWO, why bother coming here???
 

sojourner4Christ

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As I recall via your indication, the real issue is "how terrible it is that a kid is shot" -- not firearms per se.



I think it is wiser to vette the firearm owner rather than the firearm...
That would oviously depend on which "authority" is doing the vetting. So we're back to the issue of obeisance to an authority (rather than a firearms issue).



If this country is sooo NWO, why bother coming here???
Firstly, it's not my choice to be at New Zealand; the Lord sent me here. And it wouldn't concern me if I was sent here or to the moon. His will, not mine.

Secondly, it's not my opinion that NZ is "sooo NWO;" it's demonstrable fact. In any case, that you recognize the spirit behind "the NWO" is vital.

Thirdly, your reaction, your rhetorical question, understandably smacks of the frustration born of the first issue, i.e. what have we got ourselves into through our obedience to such an ungodly authority?
 

Angelina

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As I recall via your indication, the real issue is "how terrible it is that a kid is shot" -- not firearms per se.
That would oviously depend on which "authority" is doing the vetting. So we're back to the issue of obeisance to an authority (rather than a firearms issue).
Hey...you're the one that turned this into something else! :huh:

Firstly, it's not my choice to be at New Zealand; the Lord sent me here. And it wouldn't concern me if I was sent here or to the moon. His will, not mine.
Secondly, it's not my opinion that NZ is "sooo NWO;" it's demonstrable fact. In any case, that you recognize the spirit behind "the NWO" is vital.
We are not totally brain dead here in NZ we inherited many of the systems in place because we were originally a colony and part of the British Empire

Thirdly, your reaction, your rhetorical question, understandably smacks of the frustration born of the first issue, i.e. what have we got ourselves into through our obedience to such an ungodly authority?
I just think that there tends to be a general over-reacting in some cases, fueled by situations like school shootings and perhaps the whole "terrorism" movement. However, God makes his position clear in Romans 13 where the scriptures say:

Romans 13
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
 

Angelina

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Okay this topic is beginning to turn into something that was not the intended O/T...Thanks S4C Topic Closed!!! <_<

...I'm not interested in discussing the NWO
 

HammerStone

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Hopefully Angelina won't get too upset with me for invoking Administrator privilege here, but here's a post that I think answers some questions. The tactics employed in this situation were flawed, and IMHO the video in this post shows that the killing never should have happened. While the videos of kid pointing the weapon are bad, he should not have been shot.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/two-seconds-tamir-rice/

However, it is remarkable that this killing is the result of a string of bad choices on all sides, from removing the identifying orange cap that should have been on the pistol, to the decision to point it at people, on to the information that was not passed along, and down to how close and quick the officers approached the situation. Terrible, terrible tragedy.
 
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