Utah "Decriminalizes" Polygamy?

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Giuliano

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I thought I was hallucinating when I saw this headline. It's from March 29, and I only just ran across the article. They aren't making it completely legal, but it's now a minor infraction unless combined with other things. What is going on?

Polygamy is essentially decriminalized in Utah under a bill signed into law

Polygamy has essentially been decriminalized under a bill signed into law by Utah's governor.

On Saturday, the governor signed Senate Bill 102 into law. It reduces the crime of bigamy among consenting adults to an infraction -- on par with a traffic ticket. However, bigamy in concert with other crimes like abuse, fraud or child-bride marriages, becomes a felony.

The bill faced a lot of controversy on Utah's Capitol Hill, yet won overwhelming support among lawmakers. Utah was forced to abandon the practice of polygamy as a condition of statehood. Yet, it remains practiced today. Pro-polygamy groups estimate as many as 30,000 to 40,000 people in the state subscribe to Mormon fundamentalism, the belief system that includes plural marriage.
 

Josho

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I thought I was hallucinating when I saw this headline. It's from March 29, and I only just ran across the article. They aren't making it completely legal, but it's now a minor infraction unless combined with other things. What is going on?

Polygamy is essentially decriminalized in Utah under a bill signed into law

Polygamy has essentially been decriminalized under a bill signed into law by Utah's governor.

On Saturday, the governor signed Senate Bill 102 into law. It reduces the crime of bigamy among consenting adults to an infraction -- on par with a traffic ticket. However, bigamy in concert with other crimes like abuse, fraud or child-bride marriages, becomes a felony.

The bill faced a lot of controversy on Utah's Capitol Hill, yet won overwhelming support among lawmakers. Utah was forced to abandon the practice of polygamy as a condition of statehood. Yet, it remains practiced today. Pro-polygamy groups estimate as many as 30,000 to 40,000 people in the state subscribe to Mormon fundamentalism, the belief system that includes plural marriage.

Crazy stuff, one would have thought this wouldn't happen under a Republican government.
 
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Giuliano

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Crazy stuff, one would have thought this wouldn't happen under a Republican government.
I am flummoxed. The timing I understand: With everyone talking about Covid-19, they could do this with not much publicity.

How can they file taxes for both wives? I don't think the IRS allows that.
 
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Enoch111

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They aren't making it completely legal, but it's now a minor infraction unless combined with other things. What is going on?
Since Utah is primarily Mormon, this is consistent with their teachings.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Since Utah is primarily Mormon, this is consistent with their teachings.
Actually the reverse is true: polygamy is a major no-go for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Marrying a second living person is pretty much an instant excommunication. Adults from that background must openly denounced the practice of polygamy before baptism, and any there are major complications dealing with minors that come from polygamous homes.
 

amadeus

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I am flummoxed. The timing I understand: With everyone talking about Covid-19, they could do this with not much publicity.

How can they file taxes for both wives? I don't think the IRS allows that.
In all of the years I worked for Social Security we always used the state law to make relationship determinations. For foreign cases, we used the relationship laws for those countries. Once I worked a case with a proxy marriage under Japanese law. It was legal under Japanese law making the claimant eligible for Social Security benefits as a spouse.

When I was working at the Social Security Program Service Center in Richmond CA, we had one Utah case that had to be processed manually each month because there were 19 children receiving survivor benefits on the record of one worker. He had several simultaneous [polygamous] marriages which resulted in the many children. The marriages were not all legal so the illegal wives received nothing, but that did not matter for his biological children. It was a computer limitation at the time. It was cheaper to have one person take any necessary actions on the record each month than to reprogram the computer to handle larger numbers of beneficiaries on one record. I don't remember the exact computer limitation but I believe it was less than 10 children at the time.
 

Giuliano

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In all of the years I worked for Social Security we always used the state law to make relationship determinations. For foreign cases, we used the relationship laws for those countries. Once I worked a case with a proxy marriage under Japanese law. It was legal under Japanese law making the claimant eligible for Social Security benefits as a spouse.

When I was working at the Social Security Program Service Center in Richmond CA, we had one Utah case that had to be processed manually each month because there were 19 children receiving survivor benefits on the record of one worker. He had several simultaneous [polygamous] marriages which resulted in the many children. The marriages were not all legal so the illegal wives received nothing, but that did not matter for his biological children. It was a computer limitation at the time. It was cheaper to have one person take any necessary actions on the record each month than to reprogram the computer to handle larger numbers of beneficiaries on one record. I don't remember the exact computer limitation but I believe it was less than 10 children at the time.
What a mess! I'm a little surprised Social Security recognized foreign marriages like that. I know if you're a Saudi prince or some other bigwig, you can't bring more than one woman as your spouse if you apply for a visa. Clearly applying for citizenship with more than one spouse doesn't work.

Would Social Security recognize these second marriages in Utah? Are they in fact considered valid marriages under the law? I think if you "forget" to divorce and try to remarry, the second marriage isn't considered valid. I don't think the revised law changes that -- the illegal wives would still not be recognized although the children would be.
 

Giuliano

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Actually the reverse is true: polygamy is a major no-go for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Marrying a second living person is pretty much an instant excommunication. Adults from that background must openly denounced the practice of polygamy before baptism, and any there are major complications dealing with minors that come from polygamous homes.
That was the reason I was so shocked! I thought the LDS was very opposed to the idea. The Book of Mormon says it's not a good thing. It was allowed for a time, I understand, because there were so many more women than men.

There is something like that today with Black Muslims. With so many black men dying early or in prison, there are communities with many more women than men. I understand too that some Black Muslim men marry older widows with children and support them all. It's hard for me to condemn them for doing that. It seems better to me than allowing the widows and their children fend for themselves.

I found out the reason given for reducing the penalty from felony status.

Removing polygamy as a felony is one of the important laws that take effect today

The bill ran into some opposition during the legislative session among groups opposed to polygamy, who said the practice is inherently abusive to women and children and argued that the penalties should not be lessened. But Sen. Deidre Henderson, the bill’s sponsor, has said she hopes it will make victims of abuse and fraud less afraid to come forward in the future.

“The wall Utah built to keep people out of polygamy has been the very wall that’s been trapping them inside," the Spanish Fork Republican said in an interview Monday. "This bill is hoping to tear down that wall.”

Henderson may have a point. I've heard of children terrified to let anyone know if they come from FLDS homes or other splinter groups. They go to public schools and were told to be very quiet about it since their parents could go to prison if anyone found out. My guess is some of the wives pressured into these marriages might also be frightened to say anything. It might work. Time will tell. I wonder if Warren Jeffs of the FLDS could have committed his many crimes if the women and children involved had felt safer to come forward.
 

Giuliano

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Nothing in the Bible prohibiting polygamy., although Paul says "all things are lawful, but all things are not expedient".
Will Republicans be dropping their claim soon that marriage is between one man and one woman?
 

Jane_Doe22

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That was the reason I was so shocked! I thought the LDS was very opposed to the idea. The Book of Mormon says it's not a good thing. It was allowed for a time, I understand, because there were so many more women than men.

There is something like that today with Black Muslims. With so many black men dying early or in prison, there are communities with many more women than men. I understand too that some Black Muslim men marry older widows with children and support them all. It's hard for me to condemn them for doing that. It seems better to me than allowing the widows and their children fend for themselves.

I found out the reason given for reducing the penalty from felony status.

Removing polygamy as a felony is one of the important laws that take effect today

The bill ran into some opposition during the legislative session among groups opposed to polygamy, who said the practice is inherently abusive to women and children and argued that the penalties should not be lessened. But Sen. Deidre Henderson, the bill’s sponsor, has said she hopes it will make victims of abuse and fraud less afraid to come forward in the future.

“The wall Utah built to keep people out of polygamy has been the very wall that’s been trapping them inside," the Spanish Fork Republican said in an interview Monday. "This bill is hoping to tear down that wall.”

Henderson may have a point. I've heard of children terrified to let anyone know if they come from FLDS homes or other splinter groups. They go to public schools and were told to be very quiet about it since their parents could go to prison if anyone found out. My guess is some of the wives pressured into these marriages might also be frightened to say anything. It might work. Time will tell. I wonder if Warren Jeffs of the FLDS could have committed his many crimes if the women and children involved had felt safer to come forward.
The move to finally decriminalizing it has come from

1) That law has always been nearly impossible to in force effectively. For example, the federal government did a big raid on Jeff's compound in ~1950's, and it just turned into a public relations disaster with families feeling martyred and ingrained phobia of government involvement.

2) It impossible to get accurate reports of child abuse or other crimes because people don't want to cops or anything. It's easy for an abuser to leverage "well, if anyone found out about us, then everyone will have to go to prison and it'll all be your fault because you told.".

3) In the era of "the law needs to stay out of my bedroom! We're consenting adults"....
 
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amadeus

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What a mess! I'm a little surprised Social Security recognized foreign marriages like that. I know if you're a Saudi prince or some other bigwig, you can't bring more than one woman as your spouse if you apply for a visa. Clearly applying for citizenship with more than one spouse doesn't work.

Would Social Security recognize these second marriages in Utah? Are they in fact considered valid marriages under the law? I think if you "forget" to divorce and try to remarry, the second marriage isn't considered valid. I don't think the revised law changes that -- the illegal wives would still not be recognized although the children would be.
The way the law was when I was working a second marriage would have been recognized if it had been legal in Utah. The bigamy laws for the most part were not federal laws, but state laws. There are federal laws regarding marriages occurring within United States jurisdiction, [such as aboard US ships] but not falling in the jurisdiction of any of the 50 states or Washington DC or US Territories, but those laws applied to those special jurisdiction situations.

While I was working there were only two states where a legal common law marriage could still be established. One of them was Texas. [I don't remember the other]. Any marriage that legally established in any one of the 50 states was a valid marriage in any of the other 50 states. But it was not a matter a crossing a state line to create a marriage. Common law marriages states had residence requirements that had to be met for the marriage to be valid.

During the time I was working valid marriages in all 50 states could occur only between a man and a woman. Same sex marriages were not valid. While working in a California Social Security office I took an appeal from two women for the child of one of them as the step child of the other one. One of the women was receiving Social Security Disability benefits. The two women had been married by a Justice of the Peace. The Social Security claim for a stepchild had been denied because at the time even though the Justice of the Peace could marry people, marriage between two people of the same sex was not allowed under California law. No valid marriage meant no stepchild relationship established. The initial claim was denied. I took the initial appeal and denied it myself. Their purpose was to run the case through all levels of appeal within Social Security. Within Social Security it was an automatic denial because we did not have the authority to go against California marriage law (or the law of whichever place with jurisdiction). Once denied at the highest level with Social Security, if they wanted to pursue it they could then file with the local Federal District Court. With the Federal Court system lies the authority to overturn a law deciding that it was unconstitutional. That did not happen with that case nor at any time prior to my retirement in 2000.

Even though I was no longer working when the first same sex marriages were made valid under law as you may remember all of the states did not immediately allow such marriage in their jurisdictions. Every state had laws in place that automatically recognized as valid any marriages performed legally in other states. This caused a problem so that some states tried to pass laws to do away with automatic recognition. I never checked into the details of that as I was retired and wasn't interested at the time.

I am really glad I was not there to deal with the impact it would have had on Social Security for it certainly did... Not long after I was receiving Social Security Retirement benefits myself I remember receiving a notice from them advising me of the need to contact SSA if I had been involved in a denial of a claim based on same sex marriage relationship. Probably most beneficiaries did not pay attention or notice it among the many letters received.

All the time I worked for them SSA would recognize a marriage for Social Security purposes if it was a legal marriage under the law of the entity having jurisdiction at the time and place of the marriage. It could have been difficult like the proxy Japanese marriage especially if it was something new for which we had no legal precedent. When there had never been a case like it before, sometimes we would have to write up all the evidence and submit it for a legal opinion by Social Security lawyers as whether the state or nation involved would have considered it a valid relationship according to their laws under their court system.

The really difficult ones were uncommon because we had a huge precedent file we used as a basis for processing similar cases. Also in addition to meeting the relationship requirements, other requirements to qualify for Social Security benefits also had to be met. If a person did meet all of the other requirements, we would not waste time and effort pursuing it. For example to qualify for Social Security Benefits a person had to have a minimum amount of work covered by Social Security [FICA/SECA]. Not many people living outside of the United States can qualify.
 

Heart2Soul

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I thought I was hallucinating when I saw this headline. It's from March 29, and I only just ran across the article. They aren't making it completely legal, but it's now a minor infraction unless combined with other things. What is going on?

Polygamy is essentially decriminalized in Utah under a bill signed into law

Polygamy has essentially been decriminalized under a bill signed into law by Utah's governor.

On Saturday, the governor signed Senate Bill 102 into law. It reduces the crime of bigamy among consenting adults to an infraction -- on par with a traffic ticket. However, bigamy in concert with other crimes like abuse, fraud or child-bride marriages, becomes a felony.

The bill faced a lot of controversy on Utah's Capitol Hill, yet won overwhelming support among lawmakers. Utah was forced to abandon the practice of polygamy as a condition of statehood. Yet, it remains practiced today. Pro-polygamy groups estimate as many as 30,000 to 40,000 people in the state subscribe to Mormon fundamentalism, the belief system that includes plural marriage.
Well they have Mitt Romney (R) State Senator, who is a LDS, and is the son of the former Governor of Michigan, so they have political power and influence to support this bill.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Well they have Mitt Romney (R) State Senator, who is a LDS, and is the son of the former Governor of Michigan, so they have political power and influence to support this bill.
This bill was a state-level thing.

Mitt Romney is a national level Senator.
 

Heart2Soul

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This bill was a state-level thing.

Mitt Romney is a national level Senator.
yes, he is a state senator....Utah is heavily dominated by the Mormon faith so it doesn't surprise me....when I was in Salt Lake City it was an eye opener to how dominant the culture was towards the Mormon faith....but the tabernacle is located there so I imagine it is where they originated from.
 

Jane_Doe22

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yes, he is a state senator....Utah is heavily dominated by the Mormon faith so it doesn't surprise me....when I was in Salt Lake City it was an eye opener to how dominant the culture was towards the Mormon faith....but the tabernacle is located there so I imagine it is where they originated from.
The story is a much longer and complicated than that.

In short, Salt Lake and the other major Utah cities were founded by LDS Christians whom moved to the middle of the desert in what was then Mexico, fleeing persecution in the USA. They built things up, founded lots of communities in the Rocky Mountain states, and still have a strong presence there.