Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Johann]

Or even an angel of God.

But why is @Kermos so vehemently opposed to this? Are we merely robots, without an ability to make a choice?
I looked this up on Google.....Quietism....check this out for yourself.
J.

 

[Gilligan]

Since you wrote "The argument though collapses at the outset. The commandment is not just in the day you eat thereof, but is first to eat freely, and then to not eat of the other", then it is prudent to verify whether the word "freely" occurs in the source language of Hebrew.

I don't dote about words, nor resort to ancient languages and manuscripts to change teaching. The JW's are famous for it.

And you only do this to divert from the argument. You make commandment into prophecy, and the only part you treat as prophecy is saying 'in the day you surely shall eat thereof..." Which of course is not at all what God is saying.

God neither commands nor prophecies His people to sin, but not to sin, and yet His people do sin. If we have no free will, it is not possible to do anything other than what God commands us.

These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.

I have seen how diving into Greek and Hebrew to change what is already plainly written in our own language, only results in coming up with a doctrinally doctored translation, in order to teach something else.

This is a perfect example. God would be telling His own people to disobey Him, by forbidding to eat, and then saying we are to eat.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I.e. "You are not to eat of it, but you are to eat of it."

This is where James 1 rebukes those that accuse God of leading man to sinning.

 

[Gilligan]

But why is @Kermos so vehemently opposed to this?

Calvin predestination.

Are we merely robots, without an ability to make a choice?
I looked this up on Google.....Quietism....check this out for yourself.
J.

I have. Quietism is good for standing still and knowing the Lord is God.

Warefare is necessary for keeping our sanctificatin in Christ. I suppose we could call it quieting warfare, or the warfare that puts to silence the temptations of the devil.

Sometimes quietism requires the good fight of keeping the peace.

 

[Gilligan]

You wrote "Conclusion: If man was created without free will to choose to do good or evil, then God has no such free will Himself, since all men are created in His image. That is not the case for the beasts of the field." as your concluding paragraph.

So, what does the scripture say about Adam knowing good and evil? Let's look:

Man created in God's image is the point here. God knows good and evil, and has free will to choose to do good or evil. So does man created in His image, that other creatures are not.

If man has no power to choose, it's because God does not. If you want to say God has no such power to choose, then do so and go from there.

 

[Johann]

I have seen how diving into Greek and Hebrew to change what is already plainly written in our own language, only results in coming up with a doctrinally doctored translation, in order to teach something else

This is a perfect example. God would be telling His own people to disobey Him, by forbidding to eat, and then saying we are to eat.

You are keeping up a good work in your rebuttals @Gilligan.
God bless
Johann

 

[bbyrd009]

You are keeping up a good work in your rebuttals @Gilligan.
God bless
Johann

i was thinkin so too, til i read this,
"I have seen how diving into Greek and Hebrew to change what is already plainly written in our own language, only results in coming up with a doctrinally doctored translation, in order to teach something else."
which i mean the Bible Itself warns us about scribes changing the meaning to suit "believers"

 

[Gilligan]

BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil

Predetermined conclusion.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Adam already knew to do good, because God's commandment is good.

All of your efforts of strict logic are faulty, because they are never objective by the evidence of what is written, and always subjective by what you want to be written. If your reasoning were based only on what all Scripture says, you would not be erring by subjective logic.

AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

He knew what it was to be good, and after sinning what it is to be evil. What changed was not knowledge, but works. The only thing the devil was promising, that they did not have, was to sin like Lucifer did, before being cast down to hell.

THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil

FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)

YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22

THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Knowledge of is not necessarily knowing. Knowing is doing it. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. God knew what evil was, when Lucifer sinned. Adam did not know what evil was, until he sinned likewise.

SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" (Genesis 2:17)

THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened and followed the last that he heard about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

WHICH Adam heard from Eve

FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)

SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil

And so, we just do what we are last told.

I am telling you to start writing that man has free will.

SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will.

Another predetermined conclusion without any logic. Not knowing something does not mean we have no free will, but exactly the opposite.

And Adam did know the commandment and the law, and so did know good from evil. He knew what good was and the life with it, and then he knew what evil was and the death from it.

 

[Gilligan]

You are keeping up a good work in your rebuttals @Gilligan.
God bless
Johann

Thank you. I'm trying, but what is hard to get at is exactly where someone is coming from. When we learn that, then we have the key to everything else. In the meantime we just keep plugging away and showing where the Bible contradicts the teaching.

The key is to remain quiet within, while warring without. ;)

 

[Johann]

i was thinkin so too, til i read this,
"I have seen how diving into Greek and Hebrew to change what is already plainly written in our own language, only results in coming up with a doctrinally doctored translation, in order to teach something else."
which i mean the Bible Itself warns us about scribes changing the meaning to suit "believers"

@bbyrd009 from experience, knowledge, little gnosis, acquired from online sources, "Geek" and Hebrew" is dangerous in the hands of those that want to build a doctrine, like..."do we have freewill/self-will?"

There are also those who come on this platform, pretending to be what they are not, pride comes in all forms and manifestations, then you have those who have a "2 second concentration span"...the one, or two liners, anything beyond that is in the sea of forgetfulness.

Then there are those who have mere academic/stoical gnosis, such as demons have. In high sophistry and multiplication of words, hiding behind the letters, feigning themselves to be somewhat, some are so bold, you can spot them a mile away.
Hey?
J.

 

[Johann]

which i mean the Bible Itself warns us about scribes changing the meaning to suit "believers"

Jer 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

 

[Gilligan]

IN particular God willpowering purported "free will" into man, specifically a free will into man in the likeness God's will, during the creation of Adam

God does not willpower nor force anything into creation. He creates and makes by good pleasure.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

It pleases God to create man in His image with His power to choose good or evil. The kind of will you teach is that of willpowering and forcing will, without freedom nor liberty to resist.

This is why you treat Adam as a wind up toy by hearing. He hears God, he does what God says. He hears Eve, he does what Eve says.

BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)

God does not use will power to do anything. He does all things by faith and love, which is after the counsel of His own will.

When born again we cease using our own will against God, nor our own strength of will to become as gods:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

As you said elsewhere, it's only about the act. You do not see the spirit as source of the act. You think God's image is just physical action, and not spiritual in nature with power to choose one way or the other.

Freedom, spirit, and love are altogether, and you speak nothing for them. This is exactly the result of Calvin's predestination fate doctrine. Man has no freedom of will, but only acts as he is fated to act, whether of God or the devil.

THEREFORE it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God

No, all he had to do was so much as hear the voice of Eve, and her will instantly becomes his, and he eats with her.

I now see what you are trying to teach: some sort of will transference by voice alone, without power to resist. A kind of religious Hypnosis.

When God creates man in His image: he shapes our bodies from dust and flesh, and then hypnotizes us with his willpower. By power of will alone, God makes man in His image: A hypnotized being.

Fatalism is indeed a powerful hypnotic persuasion of another's will. Calvin's fatalism is a Christian theology of God's willpower over man.

COMPARITIVELY this point's basis conveys that Adam who was made in the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26) could not use an Adam's will created by God inside Adam which is a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will) because God's will won't work against God so then Adams will could not work against God and since Adam disobeyed God,

Not just hypnotism, but a psychosis from hypnotism. This is what Paul calls pseudo science. It has everything to do with some form of psychiatry of Christian religion, rather than sense of Scripture.

it is with certainty that the attribute of Adam's will was not made a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will).

Absolutely true, which is Calvin's psychosis of fatal destination. I.e. duplicated will of God.

God does not duplicate his will on anyone, but creates in His image, which is love.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

We love him, because he first loved us.

We can only love God, because He first loved us by creating us in His image. Animals are fated to do the will of God, but they cannot love Him, because they don't personally know Him.

The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities

More psychiatric care than doctrine of Christ.

• God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature

Man is a creature created in the image of God. A whale is creature. And he may be having a whale of a time in the sea, but it is all according to predetermined will of God.

Your willpower theology is man without free will created in man, but only the same kind of predetermined will of a whale. Calvinism.

• Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

No, you are teaching a willpowered predetermined, hypnotic like state.

• Scripture does not include the mention of God endowing Adam with free will.

Scripture says God gives us choice.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

It's the same choice God has given every man since Adam.

God does not answer to the demands of unbelievers. He does not have to say, Behold, I endow you with free will, and I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life. When He says The Word was God, it is enough for the believer to know He was God. He does not then go on to say: He, Jesus Christ, is the Word, and He the Word was God, just to satisfy the unbelievers.

• Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

Man's hypnotism is a trick of man. And man's fatalism is a lie of natural man, that does not believe we are created in the image of God.

 

[Gilligan]

You are gravely mistaken because the Word of God does not say God imparted Adam with a free-will anywhere in Genesis 1 to 5, nor anywhere in Scripture; therefore, Adam was not imparted a free-will.

The concept is the same as the Word of God does not say God imparted Adam with the knowledge of good and evil, the very knowledge that God holds, that knowledge of good and evil was not imparted to Adam as part of Adam being created in God's image and likeness (Genesis 1:26).

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Knowledge of good and evil is by the commandment of the law. Adam knew good and evil, because He knew the commandment.

At this point, you are not arguing Adam did not have free will, but that Adam had no knowledge, from which you conclude he had no free will.

This is circles within circles.

What you are demanding from God in the Bible is what He refuses to do for unbelievers. You will not believe we have been given free will, by the fact that we are given a choice to serve Him or not. You are demanding He 'say the words'. God does not bow down to unbelief.

You fail to understand how deductive reasoning logic operates. The above does not fall into the category of circular reasoning.

You fail to understand how deductive reasoning is objectively deduced from the evidence at hand, and not subjectively concluded from what evidence we want to be there.

I read the words of the Bible and believe that. How many times have you gone to lengthy scientific explanations to show why they should be changed? All of your reading of the Bible is subjected to your desired conclusion. And in the end, all you have is the demand for God to say the words to you. "I have endowed you with free will, my son."

His first declaration of being created with His free will, is telling us He creates us in His image. That declaration alone has moved many people of history to resist evil abuse of authority:

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Your fatalism and hypnotic like creationism would say Peter ought to have hearkened to the voice of the leaders, so soon as he heard them speak, like Adam hearing Eve.

Your teaching a will, that slavishly does whatever we hear at the time:

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

That's how cults are made. Just do what I say, not what I do. No free will to disobey.

 

[Johann]

Not just hypnotism, but a psychosis from hypnotism. This is what Paul calls pseudo science. It has everything to do with some form of psychiatry of Christian religion, rather than sense of Scripture.

You are getting close.....and I admire your patience.

 

[Gilligan]

I didn't write anything about animals having a will. Please read the post again.

Now you take away spirit from every living creature on earth.

What you are now doing is redefining will, so that you can say there is no free will as distinct from will. If animals have no spirit nor will to do, then they would not do anything. Spirit is will. To say we have no spirit to do, is to say we have no will to do.

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Spirit is the power of will.

What is not seen in all your science, is spirit and heart and soul. The proof that angels and men have free will, is seen in how Lucifer and man sinned in the same manner:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

You teach all decisions of will are based upon hearing from another, and yet the first sin committed against God was from Lucifer's own heart. Not from God prophesying it, like you say He did to Adam.

Lucifer and Adam and all men that sin wilfully against God, are listening to the lust and will of our own heart:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

You wrote "And since man had no say in the matter, then he would have obeyed the prophecy without will, and went straight to the wrong tree to eat of it and die. He would have only been doing without any will of his own, exactly what God prophesied and told Him to do".

First, man has a will.

You take away spirit and will of animals completely, and give natural will to man only. You teach a will for man, that is natural only, and is by natural man, that does not believe in the spiritual power of choice by free will in God's image.

You teach the will of man as a horse, who here's the command and obeys without thought, nor care for who is commanding. Adam like the dumb horse hears the command of God and does it, and then hears the command of Eve and does that.

 

[Gilligan]

You keep saying things that are not what God says. No scripture says man has a free-will; on the other hand, the Apostle does mention man's self-will with "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Man is accountable for his own sin.

Exactly. Self-will is from the freedom to choose who will we will serve.

All Scripture points to man's freedom of will to choose. You say we have no such freedom, as opposed to animals, because you want to hear God say the words, "I give you free will to choose." God does not bow down to the demands of unbelievers.

 

[Gilligan]

Look carefully, they never, not once, successfully chose God.

As for Joshua and his house, they did. As for me and my house, we do.

Now you are saying there is no free will to choose, because many choose wrong.

Just as I wrote to you in the post 5 of 6 to which you replied, largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

But once again, the result is the same: if the only 'free' will God gives to man is to obey Him, then men given that 'freedom', can do no other than obey Him. Disobeying God is proof therefore, that 'free' will is not given to all men.

Calvin would say that 'freedom' is not given to all men, because of predetermined selection: fatalism

It is a kind of natural selection for Christian determinism: some are chosen and fated to be given the 'free' will to obey God, and some are not given that 'freedom'.

Also, this definition of 'free' will is false, and now I believe I see the rub: You are redefining freedom of will into power of will. That's why you speak of God giving man will power, or 'willpowers' into them.

What you are calling free will is simply the freedom that power gives to do something. And that is the exact definition of natural will power, that all living creatures have given them by God: it is the natural power of this life given to both man and beasts.

It is the 'free power' given by God to all His living creatures to do naturally as He says, to be fruitful and multiply: this is for brute beasts and man alike, that the natural man says is the only power and will that all beasts and men have. This is not a choice but a commandment of God in natural law.

This 'free' power of will to do as God says indeed has not choice, but is ordained by natural law for all flesh.

The power the natural man denies, is the Spirit's power of will to choose good and evil, that God gives to every man. The natural man says the only will man has is what is in his power to do, just like all beasts of the field.

When we say we have no choice in the matter, but we must serve the Lord, we are not saying we made no choice in the matter. That is Calvinism Predestination 101, that says we are only given power of will to obey God, and there is no choice in believing that, but is simple a gift that shall be obeyed, like eating and sleeping.

And since there are those not obeying Him, then they were not given that 'freedom' of power to do so: it's the cursed fatalism that some are given 'freedom' to obey Him, and others are not, before they were ever born.

This is a form of natural selection to produce Christian predeterminism. It has nothing to do with power to choose, and everything to do with power of will, that is given by preselection of God to some, and not others.

And since it is all about power of will given to some and not others, then it is election based upon the will of man, not by birth of God to whosoever believes on Him and receives Jesus Christ.

The image of God and His Spirit is power of choice, not just power of will.

When the whales obey Him, they show power of will to do so, given by God to all creatures, but when men obey Him, we show use of that power by spiritual choice, which God only gives to angels and men.

Here is the great error of Calvin: Only men are given the 'free' will to do God's word, which is power to do so. Some men are given that power of will by preselection, and some are not. That 'freedom' is only power, not choice, which is what all living creatures have.

Men are no better than other living creatures, that are only given power to fulfill the natural law of God, and some men have even less than that, because God doesn't even give the the power of will that whales have.

This is what natural man through history has said of the 'losers' and meek of the earth.

 

[Gilligan]

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

And so now the fundamental and simple error of Calvin:

Choosing Christ is not what we do, when we believe Jesus is the Christ.

Jesus is saying no man chooses Him to be the Christ of God. He is not in competition among the pagan gods to be personally chosen as one's favorite candidate of Christ and Lord. Pagans would choose to themselves their favorite personal god among the pantheon of gods.

No man chooses Jesus to be the Christ. He is the only Christ and Lord and Savior for man, whether man chooses Him to be so or not. It is only a matter of choosing to believe that or not. Man does not have the choice of who is Christ, but every man is given choice to believe Jesus is the Christ.

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

And so Jesus chooses His people by faith: whosoever chooses to believe He is Christ and Lord and so keeps His faith and word. As the Scripture shows, He does not choose His followers based on them choosing Him for their king.

The election is based upon faith in Jesus is the Christ, not based on electing Him as Christ from among the rest of the christs coming into the world.

We choose to believe Jesus is indeed the promised Christ of God. We do not choose Him to be Christ and Lord.

Calvin's believing without choice, is his natural selection predeterminism, that some men are created with power to believe and do His will, and some are not.

Choiceless faith is no faith at all, but only fatalism without freedom of will. There is no heart, spirit, soul, and love to such 'willpowered' faith, but only a universal law of celestial and terrestrial power.

Scripture says we do choose to receive and believe and keep the faith, that Jesus is indeed the Christ, because some do and some do not:

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Every man that hears the gospel immediately receives the word of faith sown in their heart, but not all choose to believe and keep to.

If Calvin's predeterminism by natural selection were true, then some would hear and the word would not be sown in their heart at all. But Scripture says all who hear have the word sown in their hearts, whether they like it or not. And so that don't want it, choose to spit it out with Satan's help.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Gilligan]

1. 
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

This conclusion is fatalism without faith. God does all the deciding, not man.

1. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστι

Them benefit by the faith, that chooses to keep His faith. Everyone hearing the gospel receives the faith sown in the heart, but not everyone keeps it.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1. ς pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

That work is sending Jesus Christ proving He is the Christ of God. Not all believed, because not all wanted to. They chose not to receive Him for reasons of power, politics, religion, lust, etc...

1. 
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

What is not of ourselves is our own faith in who to choose as Christ. The gift given is Jesus' faith, that He is indeed the Christ of God. Not all who hear and receive it, keep it, by choice.

The trial of our faith is to choose to continue believing and obeying Him. Not all do, by choice.

1. 
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God

The fruit of the Spirit by faith is only with them that continue in the faith. Not all do, by choice. Nor do all that hear, keep the faith at all. It is taken away by the devil instantly:

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

They don't want it, enough to keep it, so the devil is more than willing to take it away from them. They don't want to repent to be saved, but just be saved already before the world even began. And then congratulate themselves for being Calvin's preselected elected.

1. 
   
2. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)

Them chosen are not by special given power of will, but by receiving and believing what is heard. This is nothing to do with how God creates any man, since all are created the same, with power of natural will, and also being lightened by Christ to believe Him.

Not all choose to keep that light: In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

As a reminder, Post 5 of 6: Adam's will was not an exact duplicate of God's will because Adam would not have done the evil of disobeying God if it were.

Exactly, which means being made a duplicate is scientific cloning, not being created in God's image. The first Adam was created in God's image, and chose not to keep His faith nor commandment. The second Adam was made of man's flesh and blood, and did choose to keep God's image from His youth.

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

No man has known God by wisdom, and no man has taught the doctrine of God by science.

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

All men are created in God's exact image, but only one man kept it all through the days of His life in the flesh.

Calvin teaches some men are made in an inexact image of God on purpose, because God has not selected them for salvation before the world began.

There is no inexact image of God. Logicians and scientists may think so, since men are only created as inexact duplicates of God's image.

 

[Kermos]

Exactly. Self-will is from the freedom to choose who will we will serve.

All Scripture points to man's freedom of will to choose. You say we have no such freedom, as opposed to animals, because you want to hear God say the words, "I give you free will to choose." God does not bow down to the demands of unbelievers.

You need to make no mistake about this, self-will is condemnation. Self-will is not the same thing as free-will.

Let's look at scripture abour free-will, self-will, and bond-will, each in turn in the following paragraphs.

The Apostle Paul refers to free will as illusory, as an illusion, when he wrote "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14), and there is the Bible's single reference to free-will that I have found.

The Apostle Peter refers to self will as concrete fact, that self-willed persons are unbelievers when he wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10), so self-willed people revile the Majesty of King Jesus in their "I chose Jesus" in spite of the King saying:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The Apostle Paul refers to bond will in every Christian, that a Christian's will is lovingky bound to God by God for God, when he wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so we Christians have wills that are bound and controlled by the Power of God - by God's grace for God's glory (Ephesians 2:8-10).

YOU CLASSIFIED YOURSELF AS A SELF-WILLED PERSON IN YOUR POST QUOTED ABOVE.

You were absolutely correct when you wrote "God does not bow down to the demands of unbelievers" because self-willed unbelievers issue reviling demands like "I chose Jesus and now Jesus must save me".

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

But why is @Kermos so vehemently opposed to this? Are we merely robots, without an ability to make a choice?
I looked this up on Google.....Quietism....check this out for yourself.
J.

"But now, O YHWH, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand" (Isaiah 64:8). See the word "clay", but you use the word "robot".

The Apostle Paul wrote:

then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
(Romans 9:16-23)
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You previously wrote to me that Quietism includes "let go, let God", and I responded to you that no mere person lets God do anything because God is in control. You are now bearing false witness against me by claiming that I am involved with a thing that you call Quietism.

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.