Was Jesus sent to rule as the Messiah or was he sent to die for the sins of humanity?

[Eternally Grateful]

2 Corinthians 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

Yes, he was speaking of physical descendents of Abraham called hebrews, Israelites,

and he was claiming he was one of them.

but not sure how this relates to our conversation

 

[quietthinker]

how is this?

The Gods men create demand sacrifice of babies, of virgins, They will nto sacrifice themselves.

The God of heaven sacrificed himself..

huge difference my friend

Jesus gave his life because we took it. The operative word being 'gave'. He gave it not because God required blood before he could forgive but to let us know that we could do the worst to him and he would still love us. When one loves, one forgives; the two are inseparable ie, loving and forgiving.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you read OT prophets. and there are many of them

they is Israel.

Israel is the only ones that had their cities and sanctuaries destroyed because of their sin. and God promised, if they repent he will rebuild them


again, That is not what the prophet said.. I could not prove that prophecy was fulfilled by using this as a spiritul interpretation.

plus the disciples did not rebuild anything, they built something new.. The church.

Again, Here is just a few prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel and the rebuilding of the ruins and cities which were destroyed because of her sin

Isaiah 61:4

And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities, The desolations of many generations.

ez 36: 6 “Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel, and say to the mountains, the hills, the rivers, and the valleys, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I have spoken in My jealousy and My fury, because you have borne the shame of the nations.” 7 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “I have raised My hand in an oath that surely the nations that are around you shall bear their own shame. 8 But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are about to come. 9 For indeed I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. 10 I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities shall be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. 11 I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and [d]bear young; I will make you inhabited as in former times, and do better for you than at your beginnings. Then you shall know that I am the Lord. 12 Yes, I will cause men to walk on you, My people Israel; they shall take possession of you, and you shall be their inheritance; no more shall you bereave them of children.”

Amos 9:
“On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And epair its damages; I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,[k] And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,” Says the Lord who does this thing.
13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “When the plowman shall overtake the reaper, And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; The mountains shall drip with sweet wine, And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them,” Says the Lord your God.

Ezek 37: 21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.



He stopped here

And the day of vengeance of our God.....

Everything in the prophecy after these words concern the day of vengeance.

When did that day, or hour, or time occur



God told Israel if they sinned against him, he would make their land and cities a waste land.

Lev 26:
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

This happened three times

1. When Assyria laid the northern kingdom to waste (2 kings 17)
2. Babylon (see daniel 1)
3. Rome - as we know in 70 AD.

You have your perspective and I have mine. I do read the same passages that you read. It’s the heart made desolate. I still am persuaded it’s a heart problem not a structural or dirt-territory problem. But everyone is persuaded in their own heart and mind what it means. You asked what about vengeance? When He (Christ) became obedient even unto death.

2 Corinthians 10:1-8 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: [2] But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. [7] Do you look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [8] For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for (building up His body) edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have your perspective and I have mine. I do read the same passages that you read. It’s the heart made desolate. I still am persuaded it’s a heart problem not a structural or dirt-territory problem. But everyone is persuaded in their own heart and mind what it means. You asked what about vengeance? When He (Christ) became obedient even unto death.

2 Corinthians 10:1-8 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: [2] But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. [7] Do you look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [8] For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for (building up His body) edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

Like I said

if those things do not come true literally. Just like all the things that came true at Jesus first advent

Then prophecy is meaningless.

God told Israel. when they rebuild the cities and they are restored. YOU will know I am the lord your God.. as will the whole world.

that is the purpose of those prophecies. they are not for you or i. they are for the people alive when they take place..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, he was speaking of physical descendents of Abraham called hebrews, Israelites,

and he was claiming he was one of them.

but not sure how this relates to our conversation

You are right. All of what you say is true. You have got it. All of it…is exactly as you said. It will come to pass then. As you say it is literal and has to be literal then it is literal.

 

[Vall]

To all who would ask who or why he came consider Nicodemus who come to ask who are you that you do these miracles and speak such things and Jesús answered him with a question .... Where were you at the beginning as I was? If that question cant clear it up then may I suggest a more in-depth Bible study that might lead to an understanding that Jesus was God come in flesh to fulfill Levitical law concerning sin which of course the money changers had made a mockery of.