logically No he was the one who betrayed Jesus But of course maybe he was according to the gospel of John he was taken over by the devil That doesn't mean anything he rejected Jesus before he turned him over But he also gave his 40 coins of silver back and repented repented more like hanged himself. No I got the issue all wrong its not about what he did, but rather he excepted christ in the end. If he accepted Christ why would he have hanged himself? If he didn't accept christ why would he have gave the forty coins back and felt enough guilt to hang himself?------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those are the mental ramblings in my head, and right now I have no idea. What are your thoughts??
Was Judas saved
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Hi again Letsgofishing, IF you look in the biblical section youll find my post on this named "Another Judas Question" which I think you will find interesting. Yes, he gave back the money but He did not go to Jesus for repentance. Like Peter, the wrong things happened, they both saw they were in the wrong. In one case we see Peter truly being forgiven and in the other- this act of betrayl overcame Judas to the point of taking his own life. Anyway- check it out, ill try to link you.http://www.christianityboard.com/another-j...=judas+question
(Letsgofishing;41045)
logically No he was the one who betrayed Jesus But of course maybe he was according to the gospel of John he was taken over by the devil That doesn't mean anything he rejected Jesus before he turned him over But he also gave his 40 coins of silver back and repented repented more like hanged himself. No I got the issue all wrong its not about what he did, but rather he excepted christ in the end. If he accepted Christ why would he have hanged himself? If he didn't accept christ why would he have gave the forty coins back and felt enough guilt to hang himself?------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those are the mental ramblings in my head, and right now I have no idea. What are your thoughts??
okay let's do this...let's look at the difference between betrayal (Judas) and denial (Peter)************************************Strong's: #3860 paradidōmi (Judas)1) to give into the hands (of another)2) to give over into (one's) power or usea) to deliver to one something to keep, use, take care of, manage
to deliver up one to custody, to be judged, condemned, punished, scourged, tormented, put to deathc) to deliver up treacherously1) by betrayal to cause one to be taken2) to deliver one to be taught, moulded3) to commit, to commend4) to deliver verballya) commands, rites
to deliver by narrating, to report5) to permit allowa) when the fruit will allow that is when its ripeness permits
gives itself up, presents itself**********************************Strong's #533 aparneomai (Peter)1) to denya) to affirm that one has no acquaintance or connection with someone
to forget one's self, lose sight of one's self and one's own interests*******************************personally I don't believe that Judas was ever saved. I believe that he was the chosen vessel to reveal the son of perdition of that day, to fulfill prophecy and that the Spirit of God was never with the man. He remained a theif and a liar all throughout the ministry w/Christ as a disciple.Peter however, greatly loved the Lord, proving that the Spirit of God was with him. His denial proved nothing more than the fact that though we become the Lord's we are still human beings who at times fear for our lives. I know that you didn't mention Peter but I think that by using the different examples we can see the results of their love for the Lord or lack there of more clearly...
logically No he was the one who betrayed Jesus But of course maybe he was according to the gospel of John he was taken over by the devil That doesn't mean anything he rejected Jesus before he turned him over But he also gave his 40 coins of silver back and repented repented more like hanged himself. No I got the issue all wrong its not about what he did, but rather he excepted christ in the end. If he accepted Christ why would he have hanged himself? If he didn't accept christ why would he have gave the forty coins back and felt enough guilt to hang himself?------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those are the mental ramblings in my head, and right now I have no idea. What are your thoughts??
okay let's do this...let's look at the difference between betrayal (Judas) and denial (Peter)************************************Strong's: #3860 paradidōmi (Judas)1) to give into the hands (of another)2) to give over into (one's) power or usea) to deliver to one something to keep, use, take care of, manage
tomwebster
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I think Judas will be there when I get to Heaven. I will let God judge Judas. I don't see betrayal as the unpardonable sin in my good old KJV.
'son of perdition' I didn't call him that Christ did...why would Christ call one saved the son of perdition? It would be like Him approving the Jews of saying that John the Baptiste had a demon...totally contradicting who the son of perdition was...
Hi Letsgofishing,All you have to do to settle this question is to look at the words of Jesus in John 17:12, "While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction (perdition), that the Scripture might be fulfilled."Judas was lost according to Jesus own words.waynemlj
I caught a show on Discovery last night saying that Judas didn't really "betray" Jesus but was "picked" by Jesus to "hand him over to" the Romans. It was saying that the word "betrayed" actually means "to hand over to". They were making as if Judas wasn't really a bad guy he was just fullfilling his predetermined destiny. Thoughts?Donnie
First off, as some had said above, perdition means destruction. There is only one condemned to destruction and that condemnation is found in Ezekiel 28. It's not Judas.II Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
I can document this easily by going to both Ezekiel 28 and Revelation 17.Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 17:11
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Without going into a whole drawn out explanation about what's going on there, the beast is a clear manifestation of Satan (see Revelation 12) and this is the fulfillment of that condemnation delivered in Ezekiel 28. Satan is the son of destruction (perdition) as he is the only one that cannot be saved.Coming to Judas, I caution anyone from going too far to judge the man. There is one Judge and we need to let him do his job as he is the only one righteous enough to do it. That being said, I've made a study on this topic and I see the arguments for both sides minus the perdition argument because I admittedly believe it to be a dangerous assumption to make.The word used when Judas repented means a sort of regret versus someone repenting of their sins. However, he obviously felt bad enough to hang himself and the Greek suggests strongly that he had help as his abdomen was slashed and all of his entrails came out.I guess the point I am trying to make in all of this is don't be surprised to see Judas numbered among the saints. Keep in mind the force at work in all of this and keep in mind the forgiveness of sins that Christ himself died for. Remember too that he cried "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." on the cross.
I caught a show on Discovery last night saying that Judas didn't really "betray" Jesus but was "picked" by Jesus to "hand him over to" the Romans. It was saying that the word "betrayed" actually means "to hand over to". They were making as if Judas wasn't really a bad guy he was just fullfilling his predetermined destiny. Thoughts?
I suppose you could take the road that God is ultimately in control of what is going to happen here. However, as far as this being some kind of contrived plan, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest it really, even following the Greek, it means hand over and one can hand over something willingly just as it can be unwillingly. Furthermore, Christ let this happen because it had to happen in order for us all to be forgiven. Be careful in judging Judas and be careful how far you come down on him. I'm not trying to defend his act, but we're not to judge.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
I can document this easily by going to both Ezekiel 28 and Revelation 17.Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 17:11
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Without going into a whole drawn out explanation about what's going on there, the beast is a clear manifestation of Satan (see Revelation 12) and this is the fulfillment of that condemnation delivered in Ezekiel 28. Satan is the son of destruction (perdition) as he is the only one that cannot be saved.Coming to Judas, I caution anyone from going too far to judge the man. There is one Judge and we need to let him do his job as he is the only one righteous enough to do it. That being said, I've made a study on this topic and I see the arguments for both sides minus the perdition argument because I admittedly believe it to be a dangerous assumption to make.The word used when Judas repented means a sort of regret versus someone repenting of their sins. However, he obviously felt bad enough to hang himself and the Greek suggests strongly that he had help as his abdomen was slashed and all of his entrails came out.I guess the point I am trying to make in all of this is don't be surprised to see Judas numbered among the saints. Keep in mind the force at work in all of this and keep in mind the forgiveness of sins that Christ himself died for. Remember too that he cried "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." on the cross.
I caught a show on Discovery last night saying that Judas didn't really "betray" Jesus but was "picked" by Jesus to "hand him over to" the Romans. It was saying that the word "betrayed" actually means "to hand over to". They were making as if Judas wasn't really a bad guy he was just fullfilling his predetermined destiny. Thoughts?
I suppose you could take the road that God is ultimately in control of what is going to happen here. However, as far as this being some kind of contrived plan, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest it really, even following the Greek, it means hand over and one can hand over something willingly just as it can be unwillingly. Furthermore, Christ let this happen because it had to happen in order for us all to be forgiven. Be careful in judging Judas and be careful how far you come down on him. I'm not trying to defend his act, but we're not to judge.
I do not know if he was, I tend to doubt it since he did not seem to grasp who Jesus was as many of disciples did not at first. He committed suicide after his betrayal so we do not know if he accepted Jesus as the savior. He might have asked for forgiveness before his death, but as Denver has pointed out, Jesus did ask God to forgive the people because they did not know what they had done, which they truly did not.
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