New podcast. The 2nd in a series about Paul. This one examines Bart Ehrman's contention that the gospel that Paul preached was not the same as that of Jesus.
Was Paul's gospel the same as that of Jesus?
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If it wasn't.... then Paul is burning in hell write now!
1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
It';s not only false doctrine to claim Paul taught a different gospel, but the Lord says thru Paul that we should withdraw ourselves from those that teach this heresy
I have heard a few say they live in "Paul's gospel". If one is worshipping Paul instead of Jesus; the Christ, then they are empty.
Paul clearly indicates throughout his letters he is preaching the " Gospel Of Jesus Christ " denouncing even the angels should they preach another!
Pauline theologist leave much to be desired imo bc they try to negate the whole council of God and disallow the other Apostle's letters to be for believers.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Since Paul received his teachings direct from the resurrected Jesus, and was especially chosen for his unique apostleship, (to the nations) he was the only apostle to have an educational advantage over the 12 who were ridiculed by the Jews because they were “unlettered and ordinary”.
Paul’s ministry was weighty because of his background.....as a former Pharisee and persecutor of Christians, when he was converted, he was seen as an apostate by the Jewish leaders....but he had credibility because he knew the scriptures well, and the Jewish leaders could not find fault with his arguments. He could also speak with authority to the educated Greeks as his discourse at the Areopagus demonstrated. (Acts 17:22-27)
If Paul taught a different gospel to Jesus, then everything he wrote is a lie. He was not educated by the other apostles, but by Jesus himself through holy spirit. If we question that, then we have lost most of the Christian scriptures.....so do we believe that all scripture is written under God’s inspiration.....and that what he included in the canon is authentic? Or do we question whether God has control over what is contained in his “word”?
Paul’s ministry was weighty because of his background.....as a former Pharisee and persecutor of Christians, when he was converted, he was seen as an apostate by the Jewish leaders....but he had credibility because he knew the scriptures well, and the Jewish leaders could not find fault with his arguments. He could also speak with authority to the educated Greeks as his discourse at the Areopagus demonstrated. (Acts 17:22-27)
If Paul taught a different gospel to Jesus, then everything he wrote is a lie. He was not educated by the other apostles, but by Jesus himself through holy spirit. If we question that, then we have lost most of the Christian scriptures.....so do we believe that all scripture is written under God’s inspiration.....and that what he included in the canon is authentic? Or do we question whether God has control over what is contained in his “word”?
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1 Corinthians 3:6-8
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
The word of God is a whole and is fittly joined together in truth.
It is not in the I's but is in God who gives the increase.
However, we must be laborours in the fields that are white to harvest.
Amen
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
The word of God is a whole and is fittly joined together in truth.
It is not in the I's but is in God who gives the increase.
However, we must be laborours in the fields that are white to harvest.
Amen
Yessir, the extreme grace changers twist Paul's teachings to their own destruction
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
And then we see some are extreme on the other end of the spectrum claiming Paul was not an apostle at all.
There's entire websites and talkboards about that.
What wracks my brain even worse than the Pauline theologists is how ppl cut up the word of God.
Is ALL the bible, ( whatever version) not ALL directed to ALL believers?
Yet they say Paul was talking to the believer in verse such & such but John was talking to unbelievers in his verse. I call balderdash!
Is the whole council of the word of God not to believers as there is neither Jew nor Greek ect and is it NOT ALL THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST; our Lord and Saviour ???????? (Both Old & New)
VictoryinJesus
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One look at the Fruit of the Spirit through which Paul preached the gospel of Grace and to me …it’s the same Fruit of Philippians 1:11-19 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. [12] But I would you should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; [13] So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; [14] And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. [15] Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [16] The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [17] But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [18] What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. [19] For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
Jesus was a teacher of the Mosiac law. The Purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. The law does not save, nor does it justify. "Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.
Paul received the Gospel directly from Jesus, Galatians 1:11-12. You are not recognizing the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you reject Paul and his Gospel you will never see heaven.
I have seen heaven. The Mosaic law has indeed been abolished. Jesus acknowledged the Mosaic law as it was still pertinent at that time. But He preached the kingdom of God....just like Paul continued to do. We are now granted through Christ to be where He is...in the kingdom realm...to walk in His love...to be empowered by His resurrection life. All the rest is just vain religion.
No one is justified by what they do or what they believe. No flesh is justified in His sight. So you are missing how we can't justify ourselves for ANY reason. We can argue with God about how justified we are...but it's pointless. Only God justifies.
Paul was not saying anything new. Notice what it says in the OT.
Ps. 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Paul is not saying anything new. Only God can justify a person. This flies in the face of those who justify themselves for their beliefs about Christ.
The law does not empower us to fulfill it. Grace empowers us to fulfill God's law. Unrighteousness does not inherit eternal life.
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That's false doctrine!
The OT law was abolished to make way for... the Law of Christ!
You gotta accept the whole counsel of God man and don't let these false teachers con you in to being a cherry picker!
In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).
He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.
By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).
It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands").
Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).
Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ).
On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).
Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).
In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident.
Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The licentious people do this.. But you could also say some legalists do this.. by misrepresenting what he says
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Lord, let me be......
James 1:19-20
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Let us also thoroughly read what is being communicated before we engage, remembering we are not the enemies of the cross, but a brotherhood !
James 1:19-20
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Let us also thoroughly read what is being communicated before we engage, remembering we are not the enemies of the cross, but a brotherhood !
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