Was There Resurrection Before Christ?

[judd]

Please was there Resurrection of the dead before Christ?

I asked a friend yesterday and he told me "there was no resurrection, that those who have died then were tormented by the devil. Also, he said that before Christ resurrection, Christ went to preach to the people (dead people) and those who believed him were raised with Him from death.

 

[Templar81]

Some of the Apocryphal stuff like the Gospel of Nicodemus try to explain what happend between Christ's dying and resurrection. In the Old versions of the Apostles Creed it say's

Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father

This is the one form The 1662 Book of Common Prayer and is very similar to the Catholic version. Nowerdays we (Churc of England) will use the Common Worship version that say#s; "descended to the dead."

This is the basis for the Catholic doctrine of the harrying of hell in which Jesus goes down to Hell to set free all the Old Testament Prophets and patriarchs, and all those who believed a Messiah would one day come. This probably includes Adama and Eve as well. I think it is unlikely that this was the same Hell that a lot of people will end up in after the final judgement but probably Sheol.

Sheol is a kind of ho9lding area for souls before they would all be judged on the alst day. The Jews at the time of Jesus' life on earth would have believed in it. Sheol has four levels. One fo the very good, one for the good who need to be punished for minor sins, one for those who are saved but need to be punished for mortal sins but will still be saved and those who will be dammed.

It does seem like a more elaborate form of Purgatory doesn't it.

As for the devil tormenting people in Hell, we must remember that he is damemd like all the other dammed souls. he is not the ruler of Hell, but subject to the same judgement nad the same torments as the dammed souls of humans.

 

[Adstar]

Please was there Resurrection of the dead before Christ?

I asked a friend yesterday and he told me "there was no resurrection, that those who have died then were tormented by the devil. Also, he said that before Christ resurrection, Christ went to preach to the people (dead people) and those who believed him were raised with Him from death.

I know that Jesus himself resurected two men from the dead during His ministery. But as for a mass ressuection before Jesus. No there is no record of such an event.

The two men who Jesus resurected for the dead both died again later in their life. So while being resurected they where not resurected into eternal life.

It is recored in the Bible that Jesus did go and give the gospel message to those who where formerly rebellious.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

The spirits in prison i believe refer to those who where in hell.

As for the Apocryphal stuff.. stear clear of it. It was added to the bible by the corrupt catholic church.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Templar81]

It was never added to the Bible, which is why it is apocryphal. There are 7 books between the Old testament and the New called the Septugent but theya re often called ther Apocrypha and these were added by the Catholic Church in the 16th century. Tnhey are not heretical and are certainly worth reading.

The Gospel of Nicodemus never amde it into the enw Testament because it is gnostic and heretical. By all means read them just don't take them as biblical ebcause they're not. Reading books that didn't make it intot he Bible is not like reading books on black magic but could be dangerous if not taken witha pinch of salt. Also don't forget that though they are inspired, the books of the Bible were compiled by man and BTW it was the corrupt Catholic church, so everytime you read the Bible youa re reading the books the Ca\tholic church chose.

Anyway, I thought the question was about being resurrected in an afterlife, not back on earth.

 

[Selene]

It was never added to the Bible, which is why it is apocryphal. There are 7 books between the Old testament and the New called the Septugent but theya re often called ther Apocrypha and these were added by the Catholic Church in the 16th century. Tnhey are not heretical and are certainly worth reading.

The Gospel of Nicodemus never amde it into the enw Testament because it is gnostic and heretical. By all means read them just don't take them as biblical ebcause they're not. Reading books that didn't make it intot he Bible is not like reading books on black magic but could be dangerous if not taken witha pinch of salt. Also don't forget that though they are inspired, the books of the Bible were compiled by man and BTW it was the corrupt Catholic church, so everytime you read the Bible youa re reading the books the Ca\tholic church chose.

Anyway, I thought the question was about being resurrected in an afterlife, not back on earth.

Hello Templar,

The seven books of the Old Testament was never added by the Catholic Church. At the end of the first century long after Christ died and resurrected, the Jews cannonized their Hebrew Bible. The Jews took out those 7 books that were written in Greek and parts of Esther and Daniel. The Apostles and the early Christians, however, continued to keep those 7 books including the parts of Esther and Daniel. Those books were part of the Greek Septugent, (which we sometimes call the Alexandrian canon) and was used by Jesus and the Apostles.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[judd]

It was never added to the Bible, which is why it is apocryphal. There are 7 books between the Old testament and the New called the Septugent but theya re often called ther Apocrypha and these were added by the Catholic Church in the 16th century. Tnhey are not heretical and are certainly worth reading.

The Gospel of Nicodemus never amde it into the enw Testament because it is gnostic and heretical. By all means read them just don't take them as biblical ebcause they're not. Reading books that didn't make it intot he Bible is not like reading books on black magic but could be dangerous if not taken witha pinch of salt. Also don't forget that though they are inspired, the books of the Bible were compiled by man and BTW it was the corrupt Catholic church, so everytime you read the Bible youa re reading the books the Ca\tholic church chose.

Anyway, I thought the question was about being resurrected in an afterlife, not back on earth.

Yeah, both of them.

 

[Templar81]

The Septugent or Biblcial Apocrypha was not defined until the COuncil of Trent in 1546 even though those books had been widely used for centuries.

Then there are other Apocryphas which are most definatly not Biblical such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Bartholomew the gospel of Nicodemus, the Gospel to the Egyptians, the Apocolypse of Peter and the Life of Adam and Eve. These never made it in because they were deemed as heretical as many of them had strong gnostic leanings. In the case of the Life of Sdam and Eve though, it is clearly a medieval attempt to elaborate on what happened to Adam adn Eve after they were expelled from the garden of Eden and is purely just a story.

Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead as well as a gentile girl, so yes of course there was resurrection prior to Christ's resurrection.

It would be nice to think that Jesus did take the souls of people like Iaaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Noah, Seth, Adam and Eve etc etc up to Heaven before his bodily ressurrection but we don't really know and we probably won't until we die.

 

[judd]

The Septugent or Biblcial Apocrypha was not defined until the COuncil of Trent in 1546 even though those books had been widely used for centuries.

Then there are other Apocryphas which are most definatly not Biblical such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Bartholomew the gospel of Nicodemus, the Gospel to the Egyptians, the Apocolypse of Peter and the Life of Adam and Eve. These never made it in because they were deemed as heretical as many of them had strong gnostic leanings. In the case of the Life of Sdam and Eve though, it is clearly a medieval attempt to elaborate on what happened to Adam adn Eve after they were expelled from the garden of Eden and is purely just a story.

Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead as well as a gentile girl, so yes of course there was resurrection prior to Christ's resurrection.

It would be nice to think that Jesus did take the souls of people like Iaaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Noah, Seth, Adam and Eve etc etc up to Heaven before his bodily ressurrection but we don't really know and we probably won't until we die.

Were Adam,Eve, Noah, Moses............suffering in death too? I mean, were they been punished by the devil in their graves or the underworld?

 

[Templar81]

I don't think they could have ever been in the same Hell that is alake of fire at the very end, it was probably Sheol. All those great prophets and patriarchs from the Old testament were holy people, just like saints but I don't think they could go to Heaven until after Christ died because it was his sacrifice that reconciled God and man and opened to us the gates of Heaven, which until then would have been soudnly shut. (possibly with the exception of Enoch)

The devil doesn't punish anyone. He temps people to do bad things and God punishes them unless they repent of course. At the moment the devil doesn't have a fixed abode, like some kind of Kind of Hell. He goes around the world like a roaring Lion looking for people to devour. By devour I think it means lead astray or lead people away from God. A tht every end when the people are all judged the deivl and his angels are all sent to the Lake of fire and they don't rule it, they are tromented there just like the rest.

I think the old versions of the Apostles Creed actually say Hades a opposed to Hell and there is a lot of speculation as to wether Hades and Hell are the same place. Perhaps it is Sheol since Hades is also another name for the greek God Pluto who in greek mythology is the ruler of the underworld.

In revelations it say's that Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. I have to admit I don't really udnestand this. All that I can come up with here is it is symbolic of the fact that in the New Jerusalem there will be no death so death personified (Grim reaper or whatever you want to call him) ends up in Hell with all the dammed, the devil and the demons. When it mentions Hades I don't think it could be the Greek God Hades since the Greek Gods either did not exist or were just Nephillim. Any thoughts on this please.

 

[Selene]

The Septugent or Biblcial Apocrypha was not defined until the COuncil of Trent in 1546 even though those books had been widely used for centuries.

Then there are other Apocryphas which are most definatly not Biblical such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Bartholomew the gospel of Nicodemus, the Gospel to the Egyptians, the Apocolypse of Peter and the Life of Adam and Eve. These never made it in because they were deemed as heretical as many of them had strong gnostic leanings. In the case of the Life of Sdam and Eve though, it is clearly a medieval attempt to elaborate on what happened to Adam adn Eve after they were expelled from the garden of Eden and is purely just a story.

Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead as well as a gentile girl, so yes of course there was resurrection prior to Christ's resurrection.

It would be nice to think that Jesus did take the souls of people like Iaaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Noah, Seth, Adam and Eve etc etc up to Heaven before his bodily ressurrection but we don't really know and we probably won't until we die.

Hi Templar,

The Greek Septugent only included the Old Testament books. Those books were the Alexandrian canon and used by Jesus and the Apostles. Those books were written before Christ resurrected from the dead; therefore, these books were already set and kept by the Apostles and the early Christians. It was the New Testament that were not set. The Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary Magdeline, and others were books that were written after Christ was resurrected.

Christ did take up the souls of Isaac, Jacob, Abraham, and others. It is in Ephesians 4:8-10

Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive; he gave gifts to men. Now that he ascended, what is it, but because he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Templar81]

Looked up the passages in Ephsians and it didn't mention any Old Testament figures by name, but neither does it rule it out. As to descending into the earth; it could mean Hell, Sheol or some other etherial plane of existance, that I don't doubt. All I'm saying is that if thins aren't spelt out exactly then we can't really know in this life.

 

[jiggyfly]

The Septugent or Biblcial Apocrypha was not defined until the COuncil of Trent in 1546 even though those books had been widely used for centuries.

Hey Templar81, you are mistaken about the Septuagint. The Septuagint has nothing to do with the council of Trent. The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures in the second century BC. But you are right that the Apocrypha was not part of the Hebrew scriptures and was added in the Septuagint by the 72 scholars. It is Koine Greek and Septuagint means "seventy" due to the 72 scholars who did the translation and is often referred to as the LXX translation.

 

[Templar81]

Hey Templar81, you are mistaken about the Septuagint. The Septuagint has nothing to do with the council of Trent. The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures in the second century BC. But you are right that the Apocrypha was not part of the Hebrew scriptures and was added in the Septuagint by the 72 scholars. It is Koine Greek and Septuagint means "seventy" due to the 72 scholars who did the translation and is often referred to as the LXX translation.

Early lain Vulgates often did not have all 7 of these books in.

If they ahve been around for so long why do so many Christians reject them ie why do some Bibles have 66 books and others 73. In our lectionary I think we only get one reading from the Septugent per year. These books seem udner-rated.

In the King James and the Good Knews Bible they are between the Old and New Testament. These are the ones I most often use as well as Gideon's New Testament.

where are they placed in the Jerusalem Bible?

 

[Radrook]

Were Adam,Eve, Noah, Moses............suffering in death too? I mean, were they been punished by the devil in their graves or the underworld?

Why would God give a condemned sinner the authority to eternally punished another condemned sinner? Why would a just God give that sadistic murderous lying sinner eternal life to punish and enjoy himself sadistically that way? Ever give that much thought?

 

[Selene]

Looked up the passages in Ephsians and it didn't mention any Old Testament figures by name, but neither does it rule it out. As to descending into the earth; it could mean Hell, Sheol or some other etherial plane of existance, that I don't doubt. All I'm saying is that if thins aren't spelt out exactly then we can't really know in this life.

Hi Templar,

The passage in Ephesians does not mention any Old Testament figures. It is the passages in Hebrews 11 that do. At the end of Chapter 11 of Hebrews, it says "God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us." We have always taught that when Adam and Eve sinned, the gates of Heaven was closed to mankind. No one entered Heaven just as Jesus stated (John 3:13). It was after Christ's death and resurrection that the gates of Heaven was opened to mankind.

Early lain Vulgates often did not have all 7 of these books in.

My brother, the Latin Vulgate was written by St. Jerome in the late 4th century, and St. Jersome included all those 7 books including the parts of Esther and Daniel that was taken out. Below is the website of the Latin Vulgate Bible, and you can see that it included all those 7 books. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church does not consider those books as Apocryphas.

http://www.latinvulgate.com/

Those books are considered inspired by both the Catholics and Orthodox Christians. For example, the identification of the feast of the dedication in John 10:22 is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59. Furthermore, the First and Second Books of Macabees is the story of how Judas Maccabees retook the Jerusalem temple from the pagan invaders. Despite the fact that the Jews took out both these books at the end of the first century, the Jewish people still commemorate Judas Maccabees whenever they celebrate Hannukah. Hannukah is about how Judas Maccabees drove out the pagan invaders. God revealed HImself through the history of the Jewish people; therefore, these books were kept. The early Christians did not follow the Jews when they took out the books at the end of the first century. The early Christians continued to keep these books as inspired and sacred Scriptures.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[jiggyfly]

Early lain Vulgates often did not have all 7 of these books in.

If they ahve been around for so long why do so many Christians reject them ie why do some Bibles have 66 books and others 73. In our lectionary I think we only get one reading from the Septugent per year. These books seem udner-rated.

In the King James and the Good Knews Bible they are between the Old and New Testament. These are the ones I most often use as well as Gideon's New Testament.

where are they placed in the Jerusalem Bible?

Templar81 I think you are confusing the Septuagint with the Apocrypha they are two separate compilations. The Septuagint as I said before is the Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures that is commonly referred to as the old testament within Christianity, but the Apocrypha is a compilation of non-canonical writings which were included in the Septuagint in addition to the old testament by the 72 scholars of the LXX.

 

[Templar81]

Septugent - 7 books between the old and new testament including Maccobees 1 and 2 and Tobit as wellas the extensions on Daniel and Esther.
Apocrypha books that didn't make it into the Bible (some is old Testament and some New)

Where is the Septugent in the Jerusalem Bible?

 

[Selene]

Septugent - 7 books between the old and new testament including Maccobees 1 and 2 and Tobit as wellas the extensions on Daniel and Esther.
Apocrypha books that didn't make it into the Bible (some is old Testament and some New)

Where is the Septugent in the Jerusalem Bible?

Hello Templar,

The Jerusalem Bible and the revised New Jerusalem Bible has all 7 books including the parts of Esther and Daniel that was taken out. Below is the website of the Jerusalem Bible.

http://www.catholic.org/bible/

All Catholic Bibles include all 7 books including the parts of Esther and Daniel that was taken out.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[judd]

Why would God give a condemned sinner the authority to eternally punished another condemned sinner? Why would a just God give that sadistic murderous lying sinner eternal life to punish and enjoy himself sadistically that way? Ever give that much thought?

I am also asking, I don't know if you know. Why would God allow the devil to live and tempt humans up to the end before judgment day?

If God destroys the devil now, many pains will be avoided.

 

[Templar81]

The devil doesn't go around tempting right up until judgement day. He gathers his army and goes to war, then he gets defeated and is thrown into the lake of fire. Before all that the devil is forced to spend 1,000 years in the abyss while Christ sets up a kind of temporary kingdom on earth. In the 11th century Christins really did think they were living in the latter days but they weren't, even we aren''t. Anyay the point is that Satan doesn't just go around unchecked right up until the very day of judgement.

One thing we really need to get away from is this image of Satan lording it up as some kind of King of Hell or ruler of the dammed. This is the kind of image that we get in cartoons and it really ins#t theologically correct. This is the kind of rule that Pluto or Hades had in Greek mythology but it just iisn't the case in Christianity.