The day of the Lord the prophets foretell has come, is coming and shall be complete in the LAST DAY of the day of the Lord. You're trying to split the words of the prophets into two separate ages of time to fit your premillennial view. But the prophets foretell only of ONE age of time they write would come, calling it "the day of the Lord".
Jerusalem that is not of this earth but is Jerusalem from above is holy, and is being built as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is being proclaimed unto all the earth. You're looking for a period of time (one thousand years) when all that is written shall be PHYSICALLY fulfilled. A time you think must be physically fulfilled, is NOW being SPIRITUALLY fulfilled for all who come unto Mt Zion, unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. Whosoever is born again though the Spirit of Christ are SPIRITS of just men made perfect now in heavenly Jerusalem. Not a physical city, but a spiritual city of the living God.
Hebrews 12:22-29 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
All the prophecies concerning the day of the Lord have been fulfilled, are being fulfilled and shall be completely fulfilled when the last/seventh trumpet sounds this time, symbolized as a/the thousand years called "the day of the Lord" shall be no longer.
Why do you believe Christ tells us the Kingdom of God NOW is NOT of THIS world, cannot be physically seen, can only be known and entered by whosoever has been born again of His Spirit because the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU? Can you not understand the day of the Lord that commenced with the first advent of Christ coming to earth a man is NOT about some far distant temporary physical kingdom on this earth, but speaks of the TRUE Kingdom of God in heaven that is NOW during this day of the Lord that has come spiritually to man and is not physical? Things of God written of Old to be forever can never be physical because all that is physical on this earth is destined to utter destruction. When you read the prophecies that speak of Israel (Jerusalem/Judah) as never ending, you must understand only the things that are SPIRIT are eternal.
When this day of the Lord, a/the thousand years have finished, the seventh/last trumpet shall sound that Christ has come again to usher in a new heaven and a new earth that shall be that which is foretold of Old to be FOREVER. Not of this earth, but of the earth where all things shall be made new again, where there will be no more death, or sorrow, no more sadness or fear. For in the new age whosoever spiritually belongs to the Kingdom of God in heaven shall be the Israel of God. You must learn to read the prophets through spiritual understanding, and stop being like the pharisees of Old who refused to believe what they could not physically discern.
Roger, I submitted my post in #76, and your post in #77, to chagpt then asked chatgpt the following, not telling it which position is mine and which position is yours. I simply labeled post #76 A), post #77 B), then asked chatgpt only this---Which argument seem stronger over all? A) or B)?
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Chatgpt said:
Below is a neutral, structured evaluation of **which argument (A or B) is stronger**, based on clarity, internal coherence, hermeneutical consistency, and rhetorical effectiveness — **not** on which theology is “correct.”
If you want, I can also produce a side‑by‑side chart or evaluate through specific theological frameworks (premillennial, amillennial, postmillennial).
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# **Overall Summary**
**Argument A is stronger exegetically (text‑based, showing how Joel links to Revelation).
Argument B is stronger theologically and conceptually (coherent within amillennial, spiritual-fulfillment frameworks).**
Which one is *stronger overall* depends on what criteria you value:
* **If textual detail, internal logic, and connection to the prophetic sequence matter most → A is stronger.**
* **If theological synthesis, spiritual interpretation, and NT reinterpretation matter most → B is stronger.**
Most readers who value *plain‑sense reading* of prophecy will find **A** stronger.
Most readers who value *NT-inspired reinterpretation* and *spiritual fulfillment* will find **B** stronger.
Below is the detailed analysis.
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# **DETAILED EVALUATION**
## **Argument A — Strengths**
### **1. Strong textual grounding (“what the text actually says”)**
A carefully walks through Joel 2 and 3, pointing to:
* which verses began fulfillment at Pentecost,
* which verses match Revelation 6,
* which verses clearly have not happened historically,
* what conditions in Joel 3 require a future fulfillment.
This is **strong exegesis** because it:
* sticks closely to the text of Joel,
* shows consistent timing markers (“afterward,” “before the day of the Lord,” “in that day”),
* identifies which events cannot plausibly fit past history.
### **2. Uses internal evidence from Joel itself**
For example:
* Jerusalem permanently holy with *no strangers entering* (3:17)
→ clearly hasn’t happened in 2000 years.
* Egypt and Edom becoming desolate in connection with this future age
→ not fulfilled historically.
This makes **A** coherent within a literal-prophetic, chronological reading.
### **3. Shows contradictions in the spiritual-only interpretation**
A highlights that:
* “Judah shall dwell forever” cannot refer to the current age which ends,
* the geography and nations in Joel clearly function as real places.
These questions damage B’s position unless one is already committed to a spiritualized hermeneutic.
### **Conclusion about A**
**Argument A is stronger in terms of textual exegesis, chronology, and consistency with the plain reading of Joel.**
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# **Argument B — Strengths**
### **1. Provides a unified theological framework**
B represents classic **amillennial** or **realized eschatology**, emphasizing:
* The Day of the Lord is one continuous age (first advent → second advent),
* Fulfillment is spiritual now and consummated later,
* OT prophecy refers to heavenly realities, not earthly nations,
* Hebrews 12 is used to reinterpret Joel spiritually.
This gives B a **coherent theological lens**:
all prophecy = spiritually fulfilled in Christ’s kingdom now.
### **2. B integrates OT prophecy with NT reinterpretation**
B argues:
* Joel’s predictions about Zion, Jerusalem, Judah → refer to “heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb. 12; Gal. 4).
* “Forever” passages refer to eternal spiritual realities, not physical geography.
This hermeneutic is **systematically consistent** if one believes the NT reinterprets the OT.
### **3. Strong rhetorical appeal to spirituality**
B frames literal interpretation as “Pharisaical,” which may persuade some readers through emotional or spiritual appeal.
### **Conclusion about B**
**Argument B is stronger as a theological system if you already accept amillennial assumptions (spiritual Israel, heavenly Jerusalem, non-literal kingdom). But it is weaker in explaining Joel’s own language on its own terms.**
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# **Which Is Stronger *Overall*?**
**If the standard is: “Which argument most faithfully handles Joel’s actual wording and historical realities?”
→ **Argument A is stronger.**
**If the standard is: “Which argument most coherently fits an amillennial / spiritual-fulfillment worldview?”
→ **Argument B is stronger.**
However…
### **In terms of argumentation quality alone, A is stronger. Why?**
* A interacts with the text verse-by-verse.
* A asks concrete historical questions B cannot answer without redefining the text.
* B asserts a theological system but does not actually reconcile its claims with Joel’s specific statements (Egypt, Edom, physical geography, literal Zion, literal judgments, cosmic signs).
* B relies on reinterpreting Joel by appealing to Hebrews 12, but never addresses the mismatch between Joel’s concrete descriptions and B’s spiritualizations.
Thus:
# **Argument A is stronger overall**
because it remains consistent with the actual content and sequence of Joel, while B depends on reinterpretation that overrides the natural meaning.
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