We Are Dead to the Law

[haz]

Hebrews 10..if you are truly saved, God will write His laws on your heart and mind and I will be their God and hey will be my people Jeremiah 31....so if you are saved and spirit filled with God's Holy spirit, you will not want to sin, or disobey God's law. Salvation is provided for those who call on the name of Jesus, repent and follow His Commandments (law)..as Paul goes on to say if you keep on sinning after this point there is no other sacrifice availablde for you, as you have turned your back on the saving grace and blood of Jesus...

Our inward man (Christ) delights after the law, Rom 7:22.
Therein is the law within us.
A Christian's life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. Christians abide in Christ, and in him there is NO SIN, 1John 3:5.

So why do you then judge a Christian's righterousness by whether they obey the law? You judge by outward appearances.

That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" had righteousness imputed to him. And he did not have any obedience to the law to show for it. Yet the doctrine you follow says that we are required to obey the law perfectly, or to some ambiguous slightly lessor degree that you cannot offer details from scripture on.

You are correct, if we sin after we become a Christian then there is no more sacrifice for those subsequent sins.
Heb 10:17,18
then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

Only past sin was remitted at the cross.
Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

So have you sinned (gone back under the law that we've been set free from and then transgressed, even just once) since you supposedly became a Christian?

There are many who are like Paul was before his conversion. They profess to know God, but "being ignorant of His righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God", Rom 10:3.

I don't know where your standing is and suspect that like Paul before his conversion, you are following an error doctrine out of ignorance. Thus I'm not suggesting that you are into this willful sin, rebelling against God's will (John 6:40). Many legalists still have opportunity to repent of their "dead works" of self-righteousness (Heb 6:1).

Remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1tim 1:9.
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.

Being in Christ, covered by his righteousness/holiness/sinlessness/perfection, Christians "cannot sin"(1John 3:9), we've "ceased from sin"(1Pet 4:1).

Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So who is the one who commits willful sin in Heb 10:26?
It is any true Christian who had the knowledge of the truth of Christ, who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come (Heb 6:4,5) but then turn back to works of the law to determine their righteousness. Such have made themselves a willful sinner.

Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/SINNER

For a true Christian to turn to the law for righteousness that is to do the following:
Reject God's grace.
Reject His will (John 6:40).
Crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, Heb 6:6
Trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace, Heb 10;29

Again, I'm not suggesting you are willfully sinning in this way. I suspect you are in ignorance just as Paul was before his conversion, and thus have opportunity to repent of your dead works, Heb 6:1

 

[logabe]

Our inward man (Christ) delights after the law, Rom 7:22.
Therein is the law within us.
A Christian's life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. Christians abide in Christ, and in him there is NO SIN, 1John 3:5.

So why do you then judge a Christian's righterousness by whether they obey the law? You judge by outward appearances.

That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" had righteousness imputed to him. And he did not have any obedience to the law to show for it. Yet the doctrine you follow says that we are required to obey the law perfectly, or to some ambiguous slightly lessor degree that you cannot offer details from scripture on.

You are correct, if we sin after we become a Christian then there is no more sacrifice for those subsequent sins.
Heb 10:17,18
then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

Only past sin was remitted at the cross.
Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

So have you sinned (gone back under the law that we've been set free from and then transgressed, even just once) since you supposedly became a Christian?

There are many who are like Paul was before his conversion. They profess to know God, but "being ignorant of His righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God", Rom 10:3.

I don't know where your standing is and suspect that like Paul before his conversion, you are following an error doctrine out of ignorance. Thus I'm not suggesting that you are into this willful sin, rebelling against God's will (John 6:40). Many legalists still have opportunity to repent of their "dead works" of self-righteousness (Heb 6:1).

Remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1tim 1:9.
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.

Being in Christ, covered by his righteousness/holiness/sinlessness/perfection, Christians "cannot sin"(1John 3:9), we've "ceased from sin"(1Pet 4:1).

Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So who is the one who commits willful sin in Heb 10:26?
It is any true Christian who had the knowledge of the truth of Christ, who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come (Heb 6:4,5) but then turn back to works of the law to determine their righteousness. Such have made themselves a willful sinner.

Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/SINNER

For a true Christian to turn to the law for righteousness that is to do the following:
Reject God's grace.
Reject His will (John 6:40).
Crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, Heb 6:6
Trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace, Heb 10;29

Again, I'm not suggesting you are willfully sinning in this way. I suspect you are in ignorance just as Paul was before his conversion, and thus have opportunity to repent of your dead works, Heb 6:1

You misunderstand scripture.


Matt 5:18-19 I agree that the law will not pass till all is fulfilled. In fact we see the law at the end in Rev 20 at the great white throne where those under the law will be judged by it. To break even just one of the least of the commandments means that such will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven.

But Christians, who are not under the law for righteousness, will be found in the book of life (Jesus). They will not be judged by the books of the law.

John 14:15,21, Christians do keep his commandments.
What are Christ's commandments?
1John 3:22,23
whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

We see these same commandments in John 3:16 and John 13:34.

Matt 19:17-22
Note the reply Jesus gave to that young man, who admitted that he "lacked" in spite of his keeping the law.
Matt 19:21-22
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Remember that scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2;14. Let's now consider scripture from the spiritual perspective.

If we want to be perfect (which Christians have through Christ's sacrifice, Heb 10:14) then we obey his commandment to believe on him.

Christians forsake their own worldly riches/self-righteousness and give to the spiritually poor (the lost). That is we preach the gospel of the kingdom, that if we believe on Jesus we will have life everlasting.

And note how the young man found the message from Jesus disappointing as he had "great possessions".
What were his "great possessions"?
It was self-righteousness through deeds of the law, as we saw in Matt 19:20.

But, if we read Matt 19 in physical terms, as the natural man would (1Cor 2:14), then we will misunderstand scripture (just like Nicodemus, who thought born again meant going back into his mother's womb). Scripture is spiritually discerned (1Cor 2:14). The bible is like the parables Jesus gave, the understanding of which is given to those who are believers. It's Christians who are given to know the mysteries of the kindgom.

Luke 8:10
And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’

Even Paul in Romans and John in his epistles confirm the Christians are not under the law.

Our works that shows our faith (James 2) is that we Christians believe on Jesus. These are the works that Jesus told us we should do, John 6:29.
The sin that the world is convicted of is unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9
God's will for us is that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

The law is not part of this. In fact the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
As I showed in my previous post, we cannot mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.

The Law is spiritual, but most people including Christians receive it through their
carnal minds. Meaning they usually receive it externally as a commandment and
not internally as a promise from God.

The Divine Law is God's character and nature, which He want's to give us to put
on by understanding the Law through the Spirit and not through the flesh. As you
grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which is the Word (Divine Law),
God begins to write the Law in our hearts and minds through trials and tribulations
we experience through our lifetime.

That is called the fiery law that burns up the chaff that is inside everyone of us that
comes to the Lord. John the Baptist calls it the Holy Ghost and Fire (fiery law), that
will give you the ability to understand the Law of God by the Spirit. Therefore, writing
the Law in our hearts by allowing fiery trials to try our hearts for the purpose of giving
us His character and nature.

So it is a two-fold cleansing where God removes the lawlessness in our hearts, and then
replaces it with the understanding of the Divine Law, which is, the New Covenant that
Jer. spoke of in the 31st chapter.

As we submit to the Spirit, God begins to change us internally, so we can be used to
bring His message correctly to the rest of the world.

My point is, God uses His Divine Law even after you become a Christian. Not to be justified,
but to be changed, so our works become His works, which allows us to be effective in the
Kingdom of God.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Raeneske]

Hmmm.... dont know what happened in my last post. I'll try a different approach.

Hopefully you can connect the answer to the relevant part of your previous post #10.


Jubilee Jones is correct that in trying to mix works of the law, with grace, is adultery. It's spiritual adultery with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24). Scripture gives us many warnings against this spiritual adultery.

You cannot mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.
That is to be lukewarm, Rev 3:15.




Rae said:





Rae, as you can see I'm new to quoting others in sections like you did.

Anyway, will move on regardless.

You said we are to obey the law the best we can. You even spoke about habitual sin.

Can you provide scripture detailing what is habitual? Is it 7x70?

And also provide scripture detailing what is the minimum standard of obedience to the law that is deemed as obeying it the best we can. Without detailed answers to these questions then your claims are ambiguous, unhelpful and unscriptural.

You also quoted Matt 7 about those in iniquity. But if you note Matt 7:1,2 it says "with what judgement you judge, you will be judged".

So if we judge one's righteousness by obedience to the law, then that is the same measure that we will be judged by (and therefore found guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10).

But if we judge by the same measure of mercy/grace that God offered us, then that is the measure we will be judged by.

I suggest that the workers of iniquity that Matt 7:23 refers to is those who are judging by obedience to the law.
Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Hence we see that it's those who preach deeds of the law who are the workers of iniquity/lawlessness. Works of the law will be the measure that they will be judged by (Matt 7:1,2) and they will be found GUILTY of ALL the law (James 2:10).

But Christioans are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, GaL 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9. Hence we cannot be charged with sin/iniquity/lawlessness.

"Who shall law ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?." Rom 8:33

Jesus truly set us free from sin, John 8:34-36.
We've "ceased from sin"1Pet 4:1
We "cannot sin"1John 3:9.

This is not to say that we're perfect in physical behavior. Instead it refers to our position in Christ.

Now as for the behaviour/lifestyle that you are concerned about, we see that Christians obey Christ's commandment to love one another (1John 3:23). And love does no ill to another and it also shows the same love/grace to others that God showed us. Hence we forgive 7x70. Hence we do not judge another's righteousness by how well they obey the law.

First, you are incorrect in stating that Christians cannot be charged with sin, iniquity, or lawlessness. If that was the case, then there would never be a soul able to claim "Lord, Lord" and not be saved because of their iniquity. Atheists don't call Jesus Lord. Muslims don't call Jesus Lord. Buddhists don't call Jesus Lord. The context of the Scripture are those who claim to know Jesus, ie. Christians, yet they are told to depart from Jesus because they have committed iniquity.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Consider the following:

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Hear all the works done: Speaking in tongues, prophesying, understanding mysteries, having knowledge, having faith, feeding the poor, and at last, giving the body to be burned. What does all this profit without love? Nothing. Such even had "all faith", but it would profit them nothing in the end, because they were without love. And yet, we are not left without an explanation as to what love is. There are many different areas of the Bible describing what love is. Love in motive is given in 1st Corinthians 13. Love in principle is given in Romans 13.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is not a flimsy fleeting feeling, but a perfect, holy, and just principle. What prompts the heart to obey the commandments? Love for God and love for fellow man. Clear cut principles are given to us through the 10 Commandments, to understand the perfect standard of righteousness.

What of those are break God's commandments? These do not love God supremely, neither do they love their fellow men. Upon learning that one ought not to even tell little white lies, how does one react? If they repent and choose to obey God because His Commandment says "Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbour", are they condemned? No, they are not condemned. Christ's grace covers them because they have repented, and chosen to obey.

But what of those who refuse to obey? They will not be found in heaven. They have loved their iniquity. They will be lost. Christ did not die so that they could continue breaking God's law, but so that their sins could be forgiven. If you do not obey God now while you have the chance, you would never obey God in heaven.

It is false to assume that if you look to the law to guide your love, you are trying to get saved by keeping the law. God's law is the standard of perfection. God's law is holy, just, and good. Paul's inward man delighted in that law, and that very law Paul sought to obey in his mind.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Next, you are turning the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ into lasciviousness by declaring that we cannot be charged with sin, iniquity, or lawlessness. You can be charged if you do not obey, because all God's promises are dependent upon obedience. Those who knowingly, and habitually break God's law, without repentance, cannot be saved.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Habitual sin is blatantly transgressing God's Divine Law. It is willfully violating the law after having received the knowledge of the truth. It is choosing to sin, despite the claims of God's word. Those who knowingly and willfully reject God's law cannot be saved, for they reject the very Law of Heaven.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Now, as for judgment, Paul says this:

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul taught the truth, but held his body under subjection. Paul made sure he was obedient, and of course, when he fell, he would repent of his sins and get back up and run the race. Christ was not teaching that you ought not to teach the truth, nor to lay open the plain truths of the Word. He taught to make sure you yourself are obedient, and then you may be able to teach others. This is a requirement.

One may claim to be a Christian, but they are under no grace when they choose to live in iniquity. It is not seeking to be justified by the law to be obedient to the claims of God. When you know the law says thou shalt not steal when you are tempted to steal, and you choose not to steal, are you seeking to be justified by the law? We cannot be justified by the law, for we know that we have sinned before. Therefore, we would be condemned to death despite the right choice. But having Christ as our Saviour, we are no more condemned.

There is a difference between those who fall into sin, and those who choose to live in sin. Those who choose to live in sin are in trouble. Those who fall, confess and repent, and continue onwards will finally be saved. The difference is between those Christians who fall and repent, and those who live in wilfull transgression of God's Law. We cannot live in disobedience to God's law, while claiming to be saved. This is doing exactly what Paul says we do not do through faith. The law is made void through faith by those who claim they are not condemned for their willful transgression of God's Holy Law. And those who make void God's law are the workers of iniquity.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[haz]

First, you are incorrect in stating that Christians cannot be charged with sin, iniquity, or lawlessness. If that was the case, then there would never be a soul able to claim "Lord, Lord" and not be saved because of their iniquity. Atheists don't call Jesus Lord. Muslims don't call Jesus Lord. Buddhists don't call Jesus Lord. The context of the Scripture are those who claim to know Jesus, ie. Christians, yet they are told to depart from Jesus because they have committed iniquity.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rae, you say that Christians (those who truly believe on Jesus) can be charged with sin.

But what does God say?
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

For Christians our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20
And in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5.
As scripture tells us that Christians abide in Christ, are you saying that there is sin in Christ if we do not perfectly obey the law?

As for the "Lord, Lord" point, we both know there are those who profess to be Christians, but are not.

Regarding your Matt 7 quote, note that it's he who does the will of Christ's Father that enters the kingdom of Heaven.
What is His will?
John 6:40
this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life:

That thief on the cross obeyed God's will. He believed on Jesus.
That thief did not have deeds of the law to add to his salvation.
So why are you adding deeds of the law to grace?
We cannot mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.

But what of those who refuse to obey? They will not be found in heaven. They have loved their iniquity. They will be lost. Christ did not die so that they could continue breaking God's law, but so that their sins could be forgiven. If you do not obey God now while you have the chance, you would never obey God in heaven.

It is false to assume that if you look to the law to guide your love, you are trying to get saved by keeping the law.

The law requires perfect obedience, James 2:10. Just one offence makes you guilty of ALL the law. In other words,a worker of iniquity, or lawlessness. But this only applies to those who are under the law (Rom 3:19.).

Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
Hence we cannot be charged with it's transgression/sin, Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9. 1Pet 4:1.

But you claim that if we do not obey the law we will be lost.
Now you admit that Christians fail to obey the law and that if we repent then we won't be lost.
Now to repent is to have regret for your actions. I'm curious how often you think we can repent of the same offence? Is it 7x70?
And if one is repenting/regretting 7x70 would that not suggest that they never were seriously repenting anyway?

And if it's 7x70 would that not be considered a habitual sin?
And what if one forgot to repent or was hit by a speeding bus before they had time to consider repenting?

I ask these questions as I find the doctrine you follow ambiguous.

You claim that it's false for me to assume that looking to the law as a guide to love is not the same as trying to be saved by the law.
My question to you is, why then are you preaching judgement/condemnation under the law?
If you truly loved others in keeping with Christ's commandment, then you would be preaching the gospel of the kingdom instead rather than preaching condemnation/death under the law. You would be showing the same love/grace to others as God showed to us all.

Remember that with what measure you judge, you also will be judged, Matt 7:2.
Are you judging with love/grace just as God showed us, OR are you judging with condemnation/death under the law?

Next, you are turning the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ into lasciviousness by declaring that we cannot be charged with sin, iniquity, or lawlessness. You can be charged if you do not obey, because all God's promises are dependent upon obedience. Those who knowingly, and habitually break God's law, without repentance, cannot be saved.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ..

Lasciviousness is defined as expressing lust or exciting sexual desire.

Thus I suspect you are saying that when I quote scripture that says we cannot sin (1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, Gal 2:15, 1Pet 4:18, Rom 6:7, John 8:36, Rom 8:33, Rom 6:2) then I am expressing lust. Is that correct?

My understanding on Jude 1:4 differs from yours.
I understand the lasciviousness refers to those who try to turn grace into deeds of the law. They're mixing works of the law, with grace. These ungodly legalists are lusting after Hagar, who is symbolic for the doctrine of righteousness by deeds of the law, Gal 4:24.

Christians are married to Christ, Eph 5:32
We're one spirit with the Lord, 1Cor 6:17

Therefore we are to flee spiritual fornication with the harlot (Hagar), 1Cor 6:18
Every "sin" that we do is outside the body of Christ that we abide in. But anyone who spiritually fornicates with Hagar (righteousness by deeds of the law), sins against his own body (Christ).

So we see it's the legalists who are the lustful ones seeking to turn the grace of God into lust for Hagar.

Paul taught the truth, but held his body under subjection. Paul made sure he was obedient, and of course, when he fell, he would repent of his sins and get back up and run the race.

Note what Paul says in Gal 2:15
We who are (spiritual) Jews by nature (Rom 2:28,29), and not sinners of the Gentiles/unbelievers

Paul here claims not to be a sinner, which confirms 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, Rom 6:7, 1pet 4:18, Rom 6:2, John 8:36, that Christians have ceased from sin.

BTW, Paul was running a race/fighting the good fight of faith, believing on Jesus. This was not a fight against disobeying the law.

1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life (John 3:16), whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession (confessed Jesus with your mouth , Rom 10:9) before many witnesses.
give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
That thou keep this commandment (to believe on Jesus) without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Tim 4:7,8
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul here is not claiming to have kept the law without spot and unrebukable. Instead he is saying that he kept the faith, believing on Jesus (righteousness by faith), just as that thief on the cross did.
And remember that it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

Paul was keeping his body under subjection to not allow the flesh to rise up with it's lust for Hagar/self-righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.

 

[heretoeternity]

You have to make the distinction between God's law, the ten Commandments, written by God Himself, on stone as a sign of permanency, and the law of Moses, the 613 sacrificial, feast, festival, circumcision, food, cleanliness, laws..these latter are the ones Paul is referring to in his writings.."christians" get confused, and should study Leviticus and the Mosaic law, and also when reading the New Covenant read the entire chapter to see what Paul is talking about..you will see he is referring to the Mosaic law having ended in the christian era..not God's law the ten commandments which will be with us forever..it is ludicrous to think God would change His mind all of a sudden and cancel what He had written in stone...He is God, He changes NOT..according to Malachi. and Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh is the same yesterday, today and forever according to Paul in Hebrews...

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace, days and commandments, and NOT the sun god and his days of sunday., dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and pagan in origin.

 

[haz]

You have to make the distinction between God's law, the ten Commandments, written by God Himself, on stone as a sign of permanency, and the law of Moses, the 613 sacrificial, feast, festival, circumcision, food, cleanliness, laws..these latter are the ones Paul is referring to in his writings.."christians" get confused, and should study Leviticus and the Mosaic law, and also when reading the New Covenant read the entire chapter to see what Paul is talking about..you will see he is referring to the Mosaic law having ended in the christian era..not God's law the ten commandments which will be with us forever..it is ludicrous to think God would change His mind all of a sudden and cancel what He had written in stone..

Nobody has said that God has cancelled His law.
The law is just, good and holy, Rom 7:12. The law is God's principles.
Perhaps you have misunderstood what I have said. Can I suggest you read my posts again.

The law (including the 10 commandments written in stone, 2Cor 3:7) has ended as a means for us to attain righteousness. Christ is the END of the law, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, to everyone who believes, Rom 10:4.

If you preach that one's righteousness is determined by whether they obey the law (perfectly, as it requires, James 2:10) or not, then you are rejecting Christ's sacrifice. Such will be judged by the same measure that they use to judge, Matt 7:1,2.
We cannot even mix works of the law (10commandments), with grace, Rom 11:6.

By all means Christians should behave in love towards others, as Jesus commanded us. But no Christian is perfect in behavior and we're all at different stages of growth anyway. Hence we show the same love/grace to others as God showed to us. Thus we forgive 7x70.

But if we preach obedience to law as the measure or proof of their "imparted" righteousness, then we are rejecting Christ. Such are in unbelief, seeking to establish their own righteousness and not wanting to submit to God's righteousness, Rom 10:3.

 

[heretoeternity]

GOD said in Jer 31 and Heb 10 He writes His law on His peoples' hearts and minds, and He will be their GOD and they will be His people...if no law written on hearts and minds, the conclusion is obvious

 

[haz]

GOD said in Jer 31 and Heb 10 He writes His law on His peoples' hearts and minds, and He will be their GOD and they will be His people...if no law written on hearts and minds, the conclusion is obvious

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Because legalist are under the law then they will be found guilty before God.
James 2:10 even describes them as being guilty of all the law.
They have made themselves a transgressor/sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner.

But for Christians, our inner man (Christ in us, Rom 7:22) delights after the spiritual law (Rom 7:14). Christians keep (perfectly) the spiritual law, as we are in Christ.

As for our imperfect physical body, it's now already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10. Hence we do not judge our righteousness by whether we can keep the law perfectly in physical application.

Legalists however, continue to judge righteousness by works of the law according to physical works of the law. Legalists refuse to let the old physical man be crucified with Christ. They refuse to submit to God's righteousness (Rom 10:3) as they seek to establish their own righteousness by works of the law. Legalists preach obedience to the law, but fail to keep it (perfectly) themselves. The legalists are workers of iniquity, guilty of all the law, to whom Jesus will say, "depart from me you workers of iniquity"

 

[Ruth]

What is the law

To love God with your heart mind and soul, to love your neighbor as yourself.

To submit to God, not your human desires.

To live holy as christ was holy.

 

[logabe]

What is the law

To love God with your heart mind and soul, to love your neighbor as yourself.

To submit to God, not your human desires.

To live holy as christ was holy.

That sounds like something that is very good. So you are saying that the Law is
about LOVE? Wow... we need to hear more about this. All I ever hear is how bad
the Law is and we don't have to study the Law because we're above it NOW.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

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Romans 7:1-4 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Arguments are sometimes drawn from this chapter to prove that a Christian does not have to keep the law of His God. The 10 Commandments described as holy, just, and good in this chapter are called by many a yoke of bondage. To justify their claim, we are claimed to be dead to the law. I agree that we are indeed dead to the law. To argue that we are dead to the law, is to argue with Scriptures. So then, why then, why would one persist in trying to keep the law then? Should I not delight in calling the law a yoke of bondage? Shouldn't my inward man be opposed to the keeping of the law? Yet Paul himself says:

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Paul delights after the law of God, His holy 10 precepts, after the inward man. And soon after Paul declares His delight in God's law, he declares that this very law which we are dead to, he himself serves.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we believe that we are not to keep the law, that being dead to it means we are not to keep it, we end up causing the Scriptures to contradict themselves. In one instance Paul declares that we are dead to the law, and in the next, Paul declares that he not only delights, but he himself serves that very law! This would mean Paul is yet again entangling himself into a yoke of bondage, and that he is an adulterer, choosing to married to the law again! What is the meaning of all this?

But alas, the problem arises with the initial belief surrounding being dead to the law. Remember first, that we are dead to the law, and not the other way around. The law is not dead to us, but the Christian is dead to the law. We are the ones that do the dying, the law itself does not die. We are the ones that die of self, the law does not sink into insignificance when one becomes a Christian. Let me ask: What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What is the penalty of breaking/transgressing the law of God? And what are the wages/payments/earnings of sin?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Death! By breaking God's law, we are condemned to death. What does Christ free us from, besides sin?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Christ frees us from the wages of sin, which is death. Because Christ died, it is as if we are now dead to the law. The law demanded our death, but Christ paid for it. So, in the view of the law, the penalty for sin has now been paid. We then have no condemnation. This is what our death to the law means. It does not mean that the law is dead, and has sunk into insignificance, but that we are dead to the law, and that our old sinful ways, and past life, have died and sunk into insignificance. But what about the fact that we sin every single day? Paul says it best:

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

It is a daily struggle against sin, and self. But we are still to do our best to obey the law on each and every single point. The Christian walk is daily one, one where we battle not against flesh and blood, but ...

Ephesians 6:12 ... but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So of course you're sinning. But Christ commanded us to be perfect. And He would not have given such a command, if it was going to be impossible for us to get to that point. No, Christ commanded it, therefore He will give the strength and the power to get to that point. Christ will set us free from all sin. Daily, we are to become more and more perfect, more and more Christlike.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

That law which is called holy, just, and good, we are to serve in the newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The law from which we are delivered from it's condemnation, that is, death, we are now to serve that spiritual law in the newness of spirit.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

God has Paul say:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The law of God is not void through our faith in Christ. Again I say, the law itself does not die, but we ourselves are the ones that die. The law itself does not sink into insignificance, we ourselves sink into insignificance. Because we are under Christ's grace, and not under the law's condemnation, this does not give us license to sin. He who is disobedient to God, sinning willfully, cannot be saved, for he has no more sacrifice for his sins. That is, he longer has the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, nor His grace any longer. He is back under the law's condemnation.

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

These workers of iniquity are the ones who declared Christ was their Lord, and did many good works in His name, yet they were workers of iniquity. They were lawless.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Iniquity:

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   the condition of without law
   
   because ignorant of it
   
2. 
   because of violating it
   

[*]
contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

-- http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G458&t=KJV

Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


1 Corinthians 10:4 ... and that Rock was Christ.

Hence, true Christians are those that do two things. Not those who only believe in Jesus Christ, but those who keep God's commandments as well as have faith in Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Interesting lead in to the thread.

Christians are not dead to the law, they are dead to sin. Christ didn't come to remove the law, He came to fulfill it. Rather than removing the law, it means that Christ makes it possible to live it.

No Christian has a license to sin.

Judgment begins in the house of God, which means that those who are saved will be under closer scrutiny of sin than those outside it. If those who are saved come by this gracious state with much difficulty, how much worse will it be for those who are not saved? It will be terrible.

Sin today is glorified in the church as well as in secular society. Devilish motivations seem to rule. In church, it's now popular to dismiss sin as some sort of biological requirement of living and is licensed by pastor and membership alike. In church, its taught that God loves everybody, will sentence no one to hell and that everyone is forgiven all the time of everything imaginable. Meanwhile the world spirals into the toilet of history and no one understands why.

God hates sinners. Period. Hell is prepared for sinners - who are people - not some abstract obsolete notion of naughtiness.

Consider the gospel of Luke.
"Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace on earth to people He favors." Luke 2:14

FROM THE PULPIT I've heard this very sentence misquoted by well meaning pastors - sons of satan who would have their flock believe that God loves everyone WHEN HE DOES NOT. There is no peace in the world. Read the newspapers. Turn on the TV. Every day and almost every hour some new horror of violence and war is revealed. God doesn't love everyone and peace IS NOT among us all.

Christ does promise that the love and salvation of God will be given to those to accept Him, who obey Him and who trust Him. There is no other way to be saved and to show and receive love from God.

Is it really that hard to understand? God is good and is willing to show peace to those who want it on His terms.
God knows what He's doing. Why resist good - unless the evil is too tasty to resist. Bear in mind that the soul that sins will surely die. For the unjust, this means eternal hell. For the saved it could mean an early death - the flesh destroyed in order to save the spirit. Beware the trap of sin. The law lives and so does temptation.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Judgment is coming. Repent while you have time.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[logabe]

It really amazes me how so many people don't understand the purpose of the Law. Jesus
was the Lawgiver in Moses' day and when He came in flesh, He explained what the meaning
of the Law was in the beatitudes. Matt. 2-12 says,

2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom
of heaven.
4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons
of God.
10 "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake
of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you,
and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12 "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for
in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before
you.

Isn't that what Jesus told the Israelites in the Old Testament? Ex. 19:5-6 says,

5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My
covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all
the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;
6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy
nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the
sons of Israel."

When we learn God's ways through His Divine Law, we will be blessed with supreme happiness in
the Kingdom that is coming. That's why we can't fight the process we are in, but we must submit
to the trials and tribulations that are writing the Laws of God in our hearts and our minds.

This is the NEW COVENANT that God revealed to Jer. God was going to explain the Divine Law to
every New Covenant believer that submitted to His Plan.

It's not about you learning the Law, but it's about Jesus teaching you the Law by His Spirit. In other
words, the Holy Ghost will teach you all things pertaining to the Word of God.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[brakelite]

A couple of things come to mind after perusing this thread. Is there any difference between the true born-again Spirit-filled Christian and the unbeliever? If not, why not? If so, which of the two lives more in accordance to God's laws? And how does he accomplish this without grace, knowing that without Jesus we can accomplish nothing? Thus if the Christian lives more in accordance to God's laws, and cannot do so without Jesus, why is it presumed by so many that those Christians who not only keep the commandments but teach others to do the same, are establsihing their own righteousness, being legalists, and trusting in their obedience for justification??? You speak of judging others...do you not judge us, our motives, and our faith because we choose to obey God's commandments? Do not be so presumptous. If I, you, or anyone else is able to obey any of God's commandments at all it is only by the grace and power of God working in us to will and to do His good pleasure. This is not mixing grace and law. This is true grace at work in the believer.

 

[williemac]

It really amazes me how so many people don't understand the purpose of the Law. Jesus
was the Lawgiver in Moses' day and when He came in flesh, He explained what the meaning
of the Law was in the beatitudes. Matt. 2-12 says,
When we learn God's ways through His Divine Law, we will be blessed with supreme happiness in
the Kingdom that is coming. That's why we can't fight the process we are in, but we must submit
to the trials and tribulations that are writing the Laws of God in our hearts and our minds.

This is the NEW COVENANT that God revealed to Jer. God was going to explain the Divine Law to
every New Covenant believer that submitted to His Plan.

It's not about you learning the Law, but it's about Jesus teaching you the Law by His Spirit. In other
words, the Holy Ghost will teach you all things pertaining to the Word of God.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

1Cor.2:12..."Now we have received, not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God" (NKJ)....Rom.8:32..." He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Gal.4:22...."For it is written that Abraham had two sons; the one by the bondwoman, the other from the freewoman through promise." 23.."But he who was of the bondwoman was born accoridng to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise" 24..." which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinia which gives birth to bondage....."

The example Paul gave demonstrates that Abraham at first tried to help God fulifll His promise by having a son from the slave woman because his wife was barren. But God gave a promise and fulfilled it through His wife by doing what was impossible for Abraham and his wife to do. Paul related the first son to the flesh and the second to the promise, and compared these with the two covenants. God's promise was that through Issac, Abraham would be the father of many nations and that his seed would be numbered as the sand of the sea...innumerable. We see the fulfillment of this in John's vision of the crowd around the throne.

In summary, the two examples demonstrate that the two covenants represent man's ability vs.God's ability. Furthermore, it is all centred around a promise given. How do we keep the covenant of promise? By resting from our work and allowing God to fulfill it...for he who has entered His rest has ceased from his work, as God did from His (Heb.4:10) Heb.6:1 speaks of the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God. This is what it means. Abraham's first son represents the works of the flesh. They are dead works...."for if there was a law given that could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law" (Gal.3:21)... The repentance for the Hebrew is to let go of the first covenant of law and rest in God's promise. We gentiles were never under the covenant of law. We are simply grafted into the promise. It is a covenant of grace through faith.

Our behavior, obedience, works, fruit, whatever you want to call it, has nothing to do with entering in or keeping the covenent we are in. It is entered by faith and kept by faith. " and this is the victory that overcomes the world-our faith" (1John5:4)

Rom. 5 speaks of the work, obedience and righteousness of one Man, and that through these, life and righteousness are free gifts. In the NKJ, the word "free" is used several times. It reflects the passage I quoted at the top. No matter what we are called to do, how we are told to behave, these are not for the purpose of acquiring the promise of the free gift of life, or for the purpose of earning the right to keep the free gift. Free is free. Abraham demonstrated his faith in God's ability to keep his promise when he was willing to sacrifice his son. James called this the work that follows faith.

There are two possible reasons to do works. One is to attain something and the other is to demonstrate it after the fact of attaining it. One is a work of the flesh and the other a work of faith, for without faith it is impossible to please God. Doing any work to try to attain a free gift from God, is not pleasing to God. That, my friend, is the plan.

 

[Raeneske]

There are two possible reasons to do works. One is to attain something and the other is to demonstrate it after the fact of attaining it. One is a work of the flesh and the other a work of faith, for without faith it is impossible to please God. Doing any work to try to attain a free gift from God, is not pleasing to God.

Bingo. And this needs to be understood by all those around the world, yea, this needs to be SHOUTED upon the rooftops. Those who obey the law cannot do it so that they can obtain the free gift. We are saved by grace through faith, and not that of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We are saved by FAITH. Then what of those who keep the law? What is their motivation? Do they do it to get saved, to obtain the free gift, or do they obey because they are saved? Do they believe that Christ has freed them from sin, and thus they can now be obedient to God, or do they strive to be obedient to God so that they can get saved? All need to take stock in themselves and consider which of these they may do.

Christ has freed us from sin. Those who state that we cannot obey the law are denying the power of Christ to save to the uttermost them that come to Him. Christ specifically stated that He shall make us free.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Are we servants of sin, or servants of Christ?

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Ruth]

Where does Jesus say the New Covenant in Christ can not be broken? No where. Even in the old covenants they could be broke when the Israelites did not obey.

Our free will is not taken from us, we can choose to walk away from God, Jesus warns the church of this in Revelation 3, he warns the church He can erase their names from the book of life if they do not repent.

WILFUL unrepented sin can send you straight to hell. But God in His wonderful mercy will always give warning to this possibility. A believer does not wonder around in this life woundering if he has lost his salvation, for the Holy Spirit will give you warning to repent. I

 

[heretoeternity]

Jeremiah 31 Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 10 God says "I will write my laws on their hearts and mnds, and they will be my people and I wll be their God"....it looks though for those who say God's law does not exist anymore, that it is not written on their hearts and minds then who do they belong to? Who are they following?

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments,, and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

 

[logabe]

There are two possible reasons to do works. One is to attain something and the other is to demonstrate it after the fact of attaining it. One is a work of the flesh and the other a work of faith, for without faith it is impossible to please God. Doing any work to try to attain a free gift from God, is not pleasing to God. That, my friend, is the plan.

Do you believe that the Divine Law represents God's own character and nature? My point is,
you shall not steal, because God doesn't steal. Do not commit adultery because God doesn't
commit adultery. Do not bear false witness because God doesn't lie. You get the point.

I am not saying you are saved by allowing God to write the Divine Law in your heart. I am
saying we are saved by grace through faith and that's not of ourselves, but it is FREE. Correct
me if I am wrong, but you seem to imply that the Divine Law is something we shouldn't learn
or allow God to write on our hearts. Jer. 31:33 says,

33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house
of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My
law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be
their God, and they shall be My people.

I'm sure you have read this scripture before, but most people don't read the next verse that
explains the effects of God writing the Law upon our hearts. He says, they will not teach again
"Know the Lord" for they will all know me. Did you get that? Jer. 31:34 says,

34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and
each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will
all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,"
declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their
sin I will remember no more."

When will we know you? When God writes His Law on our hearts. Why? Because the Law is His
character and His nature. If you want to know what God is all about just allow him to write His
Law in your heart. Don't run from the Law like Israel did @ Mount Sinai, but embrace the Law of
God to know how He operates. Not to be saved, but to be Victorious in your walk with God.

So what are we trying to attain by working out our own salvation? We are trying to attain the
resurrection of the dead, which is, the 1st resurrection. We do this and receive righteousness
through faith in Christ's work not ours. By faith we believe God is writing the revelation of His Law
upon our hearts which produces the ability to KNOW HIM. Phil. 3:10-11 says,

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and
the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Paul wasn't talking about being saved, because he knew he was saved by the grace of God. His
concern was could he attain the prize of the high calling, which was, becoming a priest and a king
in the Tabernacle Age. That takes submission and humbling yourselves unto the Mighty Hand of
God. But if you are taught that the Divine Law is something that isn't important to learn, then how
in the world will you come to know the character and nature of God.

In conclusion, we are saved by grace through faith and everything we receive including the Divine
Law is by faith in the Son of God. My point is, we don't need to talk about the Law as if it is a bad
thing, because it isn't. Paul said in Rom. 3:20,

20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in
His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

How would you know what was sin without the Law? So the Law is helpful when we need to know
whether we are in sin or not. So John says in 1st John 3:4,

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

What Law could we possibly break? I think we know.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[AndyBern]

Law-keeping was never the means for salvation. If that were possible, Jesus did not have to die to save us. Romans 7:1-4 says we can be joined to Christ only after dying to the Law. Otherwise, we would be adulterers. It should be obvious that the reverse is also true: if we have been joined to Christ, we cannot go back to the Law without committing spiritual adultery as well.

Law-keeping is also not the means for sanctification. It is not a means for anything: it is a standard like a measuring stick. You cannot meet the standard by self-effort (i.e., your flesh). If you try to do so, you will find the Law condemning you. This is why the Law is called a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:6-9). See also Galatians 3:10-11.

Only by walking in the Spirit can the requirements of the Law be met in us (speaking practically, not positionally):

For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the Law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh; and on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
- Romans 8:2-4

Walking in the Spirit does not focus on law-keeping. It focuses on Jesus.

 

[logabe]

Walking in the Spirit does not focus on law-keeping. It focuses on Jesus.

Exactly... but as you focus on Jesus by reading His Word, your faith in what you are reading
begins to change your old works into His Works. Gal. 2:19 says,

19 "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might
live to God.

Many Christians believe Paul is saying the Law is dead, but what Paul is really saying is that
the old man (Adam) inside of him is dying when he is exposed to the Law. That's the purpose
of the Divine Law. When a Christian is exposed to the Law by faith (faith comes by hearing or
in this case reading), the word (Law), that person either submits to the Spirit or he/she can
submit to the flesh. If he/she submits to the Spirit they will be allowing God to write His Law on
their hearts by practicing righteousness (doing the right thing), but if that individual decides to
reject or neglect what he/she has heard or read, the devil will use that same Law to condemn
to death that person that has broken that Law.

So what's the point? The point is, if that person continues to reject correction he/she will not be
chosen for the 1st resurrection and will be disqualified to rule and reign with Christ in the next
Age that is coming (Rev. 20:6).

In essence, God uses His Law to qualify leaders that will govern His Kingdom for Ages to come.
He doesn't use it to save (justify) anybody, but it does have it's purpose in the New Covenant.
That is why we should be taught that the Law is:

Rom. 3:20,

20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified
in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom. 3:31,

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be!
On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Rom. 7:12,

12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and
righteous and good.

Rom. 7:14,

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold
into bondage to sin.

So we know by Paul's writings that the Law seems to be very good, but Paul was making a point
about the Law couldn't be used to justify anyone, because in that day the Jews would go behind
what Paul was teaching the Church and telling them they needed to keep the Law within themselves
in order to be justified and causing confusion in the body. Here's some more things Paul had to say
about the Law. Rom. 7:22,

22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

Rom. 7:23,

23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging
war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the
law of sin which is in my members.

Rom. 7:25,

25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on
the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God,
but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

So Paul is telling us the Law is very good, but if you serve the law by the flesh, which is thinking
that the law is what is justifying you as the Jews were teaching, then you are missing the whole
point of the Law.

On the other hand, if you are serving the Law by the mind of Christ that God gives you when you
are begotten of the Father, then you are pleasing God through the faith that He has given you. In
other words, you are exercising your faith by doing God's work by the Spirit.

What a God! What a Plan!

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