"We Need a Moratorium on Genetically Modifying Humans"

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heretoeternity

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The Barrd said:
"a bunch of zombies that were man created, with no emotions"?????
Where did that come from?
Perhaps you need to turn off the SyFy channel for a bit.
You obviously do not understand the issues of genetic manipulation..I suggest you do some research into the subject and then come forth with an informed opinion on the subject.....
 

heretoeternity

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Wormwood said:
Again, I was not saying I was in favor of genetic alterations. I just am saying that the argument that we are "messing with God's creation" is probably not the type of argument we would want to push. We genetically alter animals and plants all the time in order to create certain breeds that produce more meat, more milk, have characteristics we desire for various tasks and so forth. There are many things we create and eat that are synthetic. There are many things that are "natural" such as pain whereby we put substances in our body to cancel out.

I agree that this is a big moral issue and that the perceived solutions will likely pale in comparison to the problems that result in the philosophy behind such genetic alterations. Regardless, in my estimation, it is going to happen. Humans have already embraced the philosophy of naturalism and that human beings are nothing more than chemical machines that have no inherent value...especially prior to certain gestational periods. There are even many who claim to be Christian who have swallowed such a disturbing worldview. Thus, if this mindset exists, then who is going to dissuade people from genetically altering these valueless clumps of tissue prior to their perceived development into human kind and the inalienable rights that come along with that designation made by the almighty State? Until culture accepts the notion that life is precious and sacred at conception, this is a losing battle. And I dont expect that will change because it would mean teaching a generation of egotistical, self-centered hedonists that they dont have the right to murder the unborn to prevent the personal inconvenience of caring for the baby.
You seem to place too much confidence in the morals and ethics of the scientific community...consider their goal...to make super strong humans...no problem for them, introduce the genes of a horse into the human embryo...or maybe improve the night vision...no problem again introduce the genes from a cat or owl...and voila...night vision and the list goes on and on...but if you happen to get the craving for a bale of hay, or the urge to chase mice and eat them..you know where they come from....sick society..totally sick....time to bring down the curtain God on this mentally ill, society...sooner the better!
 

Wormwood

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You seem to place too much confidence in the morals and ethics of the scientific community...
I dont know how you can take from what I wrote that I put confidence in the ethics of the scientific community. I dont think you were reading what I wrote very carefully.
 

StanJ

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lforrest said:
To err is human. You can count on us screwing up when it comes to genetic engineering. As I understand it the encoding of DNA isn't like computer bits. One gene affects many things. You may change a gene to stop someone's wisdom teeth from coming in, and they would be born without thumbs or many random mutations like that. You would need a lot of trial and error to make a mutation that is more beneficial than detrimental.
Actually I've seen reports where the have made 2 clones from a dog but manipulated the clone DNA to give the dogs fluorescent yellow nails and ONLY that.
 

lforrest

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StanJ said:
Actually I've seen reports where the have made 2 clones from a dog but manipulated the clone DNA to give the dogs fluorescent yellow nails and ONLY that.
Lucky dog.
 

heretoeternity

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StanJ said:
Actually I've seen reports where the have made 2 clones from a dog but manipulated the clone DNA to give the dogs fluorescent yellow nails and ONLY that.
Makes a person wonder what psychiatric or illegal drugs they are overdosing on doesn't it!
 

HammerStone

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Valid arguments on both sides here, but there a couple points to be made:

1) There is already a pretty robust backlash to GMO crops and animals. We've created, as one example, very specific chickens which grow bigger and faster. However, because of the increase in size, these animals cannot move. Thus they require constant antibiotics and hormones because they perennially sit in the waste mire of 50,000 other birds in the same vastly efficient building. It gives us bigger drumsticks and makes the packets cheaper sure, but we've known about problems like "superbug" antibiotic-resistant bacteria which could very well be a result of the constant ingestion of minute amounts of antibiotics in foods.

2) The complexity of both making the edits and the consequences grow with each discovery. Corrective surgery, supplemental tools, and other current inventions are not even on the same playing field as genetic modifications. I get the argument that we're not to "play God" seems overly simplistic, but we invested super weapons and power sources yet can't really seem to fully control those either. The zombie thesis is somewhat of a caricature, but then so is the Skynet thesis of Terminator. This quote struck me: "We are talking about heritable changes in the human genome that could be passed on potentially forever—we know of no proven safe way to reverse genetic modifications in people." Imagine a world where we introduce new a new virus or bacteria because of an unintended consequence.

3) You may not buy the Bernie-Sanders-style arguments for inequality, but this would surface even more with treatments initially available to the super rich and not available to us common folk. Imagine a world where an elite aristocracy lives 20-30 years longer than everyone else. You think that you have the ultimate nihilists and narcissists in politics now?

4) How about super soldiers? An almost super hero elite class? Yes, it's the stuff of B-rated scifi movies and video games, but as the aforementioned quote says, once we go there, it's very difficult to turn back. When we (collectively; humanity) invented glasses or surgery, that action was undone with the eventual death of the person. Now you're tweaking an entire line. I've always pondered over the question of does a murderer also kill the future line of the victim...well...does genetic modification forever change the future of the family of the line?

I don't know that I have the brainpower capable to answer a number of my rhetorical questions either way, which is precisely why slowing down makes sense. We all desire to increase the quality of life of loved ones who suffer tremendous burdens, but we also know this is a whole new world of consequences. I think that a serious review of where the Bible at least tangentially touches this topic (tower of Babel, Jesus words on the tower of Siloam, etc) yield that we do need to be cautious. He did say that our general sin capacity shortens our lifetimes. I'm not saying we should not challenged 65 or 85 years to go to 90 or 110, but we need to approach this very thoughtfully. Our Creator endowed us with the ability to create, but we cannot lose focus that it's his creation and our messing with his creations.
 

River Jordan

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heretoeternity said:
Bottom line is genetics is God's blueprint for everything....as humans we do not have the right to try and alter what God has perfected.
Um.....we do all the time. Pretty much everything you eat is the result of humans altering God's original creation (there's a reason you don't find corn on the cob growing naturally in the wild). Also, genetic engineering has provided us with all sorts of great things, such as commercial production of insulin or edible vaccines.

Try and not think in black/white terms where if there is reasonable objection to one application of genetic engineering (designer humans), then all applications of genetic engineering are unacceptable.
 

Skitnik

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I am reading some of the replies here and it is hard to believe them! Why would anybody want to prolong their lives here, in this world of all places?! It is so awesome on the other side! This life is just a "vapor in the wind", REAL life begins AFTER this one ends!

I am not suicidal by any means. I will live out every second of my life that God measured out for me but would I want to stay here ONE SECOND longer than that? NO!
 

lforrest

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Skitnik said:
I am reading some of the replies here and it is hard to believe them! Why would anybody want to prolong their lives here, in this world of all places?! It is so awesome on the other side! This life is just a "vapor in the wind", REAL life begins AFTER this one ends!

I am not suicidal by any means. I will live out every second of my life that God measured out for me but would I want to stay here ONE SECOND longer than that? NO!
I agree.

But it is human nature to desire eternal life, so if there is an avenue attain a longer life in this world nearly everyone will take it.
 

Skitnik

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lforrest said:
I agree.

But it is human nature to desire eternal life, so if there is an avenue attain a longer life in this world nearly everyone will take it.
How can you have an eternal life in the world that is not eternal?

That is what kind of promise Satan with come with to his people. Immortality! I believe he will deliver on that promise too. Revelation 9:6 "During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them". What good is immortality then?
 

lforrest

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Skitnik said:
How can you have an eternal life in the world that is not eternal?

That is what kind of promise Satan with come with to his people. Immortality! I believe he will deliver on that promise too. Revelation 9:6 "During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them". What good is immortality then?
How ironic it would be, for people to gain immortality only for them to wish for death. It would be funny, but in those days I don't think anyone will be laughing.
 

StanJ

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Skitnik said:
How can you have an eternal life in the world that is not eternal?

That is what kind of promise Satan with come with to his people. Immortality! I believe he will deliver on that promise too. Revelation 9:6 "During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them". What good is immortality then?
It starts here in the thousand year reign of Jesus and finishes on the NEW earth as per Revelation 21.