Were the Apostles Murdered? And why?

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Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
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Okay Duck. It's not ultimately up to me to soften you.
I would caution you however. "Whoever preaches another gospel is to be accursed". That would be those who deny Jesus. Those who deny the good news that He brought with Him...the good news that those who believe in and love Him, will be saved. I don't know that any one here has denied that. Denying the gospel is denying Christ. So we are being called to 'curse' people who worship false gods, those who try and tell the world Jesus was just a 'good man', or that He's nothing but a figment of histories imagination. I can't help but feel you are confusing the gospel, with doctrine. The gospel is Jesus...His birth, death and resurrection. Doctrine grows out of the gospel...and sometimes people get doctrine right, sometimes they get it wrong...but as long as they hold tight to that central gospel...then they are not to be cursed by us, they are our brothers, to be led gently back towards more wise doctrine.
As far as the other verses you posted...well, as I said about the Pharisees before...yes Jesus was harsh to some. To some the most loving thing you can do it lay it out straight for them. But Jesus was not harsh all the time. The majority of the time He spent teaching, He was loving, kind and encouraging. We don't have the excuse to be harsh all the time. And we cannot pretend that all occasions and all people warrant a harsh response.
And the other verses, about Christians being hated for Jesus' sake. Duck, the people on this board aren't "out to get you" because you are the only one here sticking up for the Bible and Jesus. They simply can't understand why you need to be so hard and argumentative all the time. Hence me trying to steer you towards a more loving response.
In the end it's up to you whether you choose to listen to advice and ultimately to what scripture teaches. I won't get into an argument with you about it...that would totally be missing my own point! As I said before, nothing is ever lost by being more loving. If you feel you need to accuse someone, you should do it with profound sorrow in your heart, at the loss of a brother. You should plead with them, let them hear your worry for their soul. They are no more or less worthy of salvation, forgiveness or truth then any of us, and most certainly not loved any less by God or their family. It should be a tragic day to see the need to finally consider a 'brother' lost to us. We should never turn from them with an attitude of "well, I told them, so serves them right". I cannot feel that is an attitude that Jesus would admire.
 

martinlawrencescott

Servant Prince
Apr 6, 2011
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I think our arguments should stem from compassion. Even when Jesus argued with the pharisees, he understood it was his brothers whom he argued against. The very ones chosen by God, whom God shepherded thousands of years through slavery and prosperity, times of great obedience and then times of cursing; these were the people God chose to reveal his greatest demonstration of love to, against whom he said "forgive them, for they know not what they do." Unless our arguments stem from compassion, if they are sidetracked by bitterness, they should be cut short for it is not an accurate representation of the loving-kindness of God which is what leads people to repentance.

They way we present the truth will prove what we truly believe about the truth. The truth can be presented in love and can be encouraging, healing, and hope-stirring. The same truth can be presented and cause terrible wounds. One of the enemy's favorite schemes is when he uses God's word and truth against us. Satan knows it better than we do, and he is not our friend.

Remember, Christ needs no defender, but Christ defends us, and it is his word that guards the hope within us. It is the our hope of salvation that is being defended by Christ through the word, not our arrogance standing up for Christ, as if we in all our splendor could do anything to add to what Christ has already done; as if God is in danger of being any less true even if everyone else in the world is wrong about him. It is our assurance of what Christ did in us that we stand for and that we fight for in others, and to disregard what good Christ has done in the life of anyone else is the complete opposite of what truth is intended for!

The truth shows us our need for Christ, and shows us the love and power and righteousness and wrath of God all perfectly displayed at one moment in time, and he did it for us. This righteousness we have received because of Christ and with it eternal life, and this is the hope that is being perfected in us as we walk through our trials of faith in this life.

1 Peter 3:15b if someone asks about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. [sup]16[/sup] But do this in a gentle and respectful way.

[sup]2 Timotht 2:23[/sup] Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. [sup]24[/sup] A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. [sup]25[/sup] Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. [sup]26[/sup]

And lastly remember, the tares are treated just like the wheat and are grown together until they reach the time of harvest.
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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I can't help but feel you are confusing the gospel, with doctrine. The gospel is Jesus...His birth, death and resurrection.
Which is doctrine.
They simply can't understand why you need to be so hard and argumentative all the time.
Examples please.
In the end it's up to you whether you choose to listen to advice and ultimately to what scripture teaches. I won't get into an argument with you about it...that would totally be missing my own point! As I said before, nothing is ever lost by being more loving. If you feel you need to accuse someone, you should do it with profound sorrow in your heart, at the loss of a brother. You should plead with them, let them hear your worry for their soul. They are no more or less worthy of salvation, forgiveness or truth then any of us, and most certainly not loved any less by God or their family. It should be a tragic day to see the need to finally consider a 'brother' lost to us. We should never turn from them with an attitude of "well, I told them, so serves them right". I cannot feel that is an attitude that Jesus would admire.
Again, examples please. When we all stand before Jesus I suspect that those you are defending will wish it was me speaking to them again, rather than what God will have to say to them. They will think, 'ducky was being kind'.

BTW, how many is a FEW? How many were saved from the Flood? How man from Sodom? How many entered the promise land? How many didn't forsake Paul? How many didn't forsake Jesus?

Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.