Westboro Baptist Church

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Foreigner

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There are other "abominations" in the bible that no one ever quotes. But people are quick to single out homosexuality as the worst thing that a person can be. Usually by people with a political or social agenda. It's a lop-sided view, because it comes fom partiality. And the bible says that ther is no particiality in G-d.


-- Here we go again...


You obviously haven't read through the majority of the "Christian 'gay bashing'" thread. You are also making an unfair generalization.


The reason it seems that homsexuality is being "singled out" is because it is the only sin whose practicers are militantly pushing that sin as an acceptable practice to the point of attacking those who will not support them.


This includes attacks on those who voted against gay marraige in CA and working to get hate laws passed so that even a negative mention of the homosexual lifestyle will be classified as a hate crime and the person will be charged with a crime for voicing opposition.

You don't see this activities from:
- adulterers
- thiefs
- murderers
- tax cheats
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

And THAT is why you don't hear anything about those sins.


It is also the only sin whose practicers are trying to infiltrate the school curriculum to ensure that students are taught that this is an acceptable lifestyle and that those who don't think so are evil.


You are confused when you say that this is being singled out by Christians. This is being singled out by the practicers and their supporters and Christians are lefting having to defend their beliefs. They are being told that their very beliefs are a sin in and of itself.


Please wise up.
 

TexUs

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And your's don't apply to me
I'm not the one arguing to set your regulations free in your country, as you were arguing to lock people up, here.

I can care less what England does with their laws, but I want none of it.

The Westboro protesters peacefully assemble. They are protected by the first amendment. Get over it.

The reason it seems that homsexuality is being "singled out" is because it is the only sin whose practicers are militantly pushing that sin as an acceptable practice to the point of attacking those who will not support them.
Exactly. I don't see any "Liar pride parade" going through town, do you?



Fire, you won't have anyone on here tell you (at least I hope not) that lust, or cheating, or lying is less of a sin than homosexuality. Sin is sin, it all leads to death.

The attention given to homosexuality is only the fault of their own, they've tried to gain lots of attention, they got it.
 

aspen

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The reason it seems that homsexuality is being "singled out" is because it is the only sin whose practicers are militantly pushing that sin as an acceptable practice to the point of attacking those who will not support them.


You don't see this activities from:

- adulterers
- thiefs
- murderers
- tax cheats
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

And THAT is why you don't hear anything about those sins.

Your right!! We just elect them to office and give them trillion dollar bailouts.......

Our elected officials' and bankers' "activities" are broadcasted all day and night on TV and the internet - and then every two years, we have new elections where the candidates for office take their sin on parade.

Just admit your bias, Foreigner - at least be honest! Your partitionship for "God's Team" is blinding you. All people who share your "holy agenda" are exempt from condemnation - all people who do not, are fried up for lunch.......it is black and white, right?

Please wise up.


great advice - let me know when you decide to do so.

I'm not the one arguing to set your regulations free in your country, as you were arguing to lock people up, here.

I can care less what England does with their laws, but I want none of it.

The Westboro protesters peacefully assemble. They are protected by the first amendment. Get over it.


Exactly. I don't see any "Liar pride parade" going through town, do you?



Fire, you won't have anyone on here tell you (at least I hope not) that lust, or cheating, or lying is less of a sin than homosexuality. Sin is sin, it all leads to death.

The attention given to homosexuality is only the fault of their own, they've tried to gain lots of attention, they got it.


Since when is "God Hates Fags" apart of a peaceful assembly?

Does this mean yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater is a public service announcement?

 

TexUs

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Since when is "God Hates Fags" apart of a peaceful assembly?

Does this mean yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater is a public service announcement?
As the Supreme Court defines it:
The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.


Is Westboro creating a clear and present danger? No. Thus, they're protected by the first amendment. Again: LIVE WITH IT!

 

Foreigner

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Just admit your bias, Foreigner - at least be honest! Your partitionship for "God's Team" is blinding you.


-- Bias?


This from the guy who said, " But when the person who opposes a homosexual, and then goes out and votes for prop 8 - they have crossed the line between opinion and violating a person's rights." – Aspen



Nope. No bias there LOL
Clueless yet opinionated is no way to go through life, big guy ;)






Posted by Aspen 30 January 2011 - 10:33 PM

"Hi everyone,

After returning from a wonderful retreat at my monastery, God has convicted my heart in several areas and it has lead me to a decision. After re-reading The Imitation of Christ, I have decided that God is more concerned with me spending my free time loving and serving others rather than posting on this board so I want to let everyone know that I enjoyed my time here and reading all your interesting posts, but I am going to be moving on.

God Bless!" -- Aspen


-- Apparently that whole "serving others rather than posting on this board" thing lasted a whole two weeks.

Turns out the spirit was willing but...



.
 

TexUs

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Actually, it was only one week.
aspen has been quite busy considering he was "moving on". Aspen, stuff like this is why it's hard for me to believe anything you say when you say:
Hi everyone,

After returning from a wonderful retreat at my monastery, God has convicted my heart in several areas and it has lead me to a decision. After re-reading The Imitation of Christ, I have decided that God is more concerned with me spending my free time loving and serving others rather than posting on this board so I want to let everyone know that I enjoyed my time here and reading all your interesting posts, but I am going to be moving on.

God Bless!
From: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13210-goodbye/page__p__99003__fromsearch__1#entry99003


And then later post all of this since then:



http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13210-goodbye/page__view__findpost__p__99142 (Jan 31)

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13263-how-does-arguing-with-people-about-religious-beliefs-make-you-feel/page__view__findpost__p__99975 (Feb 8)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13258-short-morality-question/page__view__findpost__p__99976 (Feb 8)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13271-did-jesus-witness-the-big-bang/page__view__findpost__p__100094 (Feb 9)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13263-how-does-arguing-with-people-about-religious-beliefs-make-you-feel/page__view__findpost__p__100095 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13263-how-does-arguing-with-people-about-religious-beliefs-make-you-feel/page__view__findpost__p__100120 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13263-how-does-arguing-with-people-about-religious-beliefs-make-you-feel/page__view__findpost__p__100257 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13262-we-must-love-with-our-actions/page__view__findpost__p__100100 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13244-illuminati/page__view__findpost__p__100101 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13020-world-communism-is-not-dead/page__view__findpost__p__100122 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13252-can-anyone-explain-this-parable-spoken-by-christ/page__view__findpost__p__100240 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13242-peter%e2%80%99s-mistake/page__view__findpost__p__100243 (Feb 10)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100297 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100299 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100302 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100418 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100439 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13332-amalek-people/page__view__findpost__p__100443 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/12769-christian-gay-bashing/page__view__findpost__p__100420 (Feb 11)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13341-am-so-naughty/page__view__findpost__p__100528 (Feb 12)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13341-am-so-naughty/page__view__findpost__p__100598 (Feb 13)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13244-illuminati/page__view__findpost__p__100607 (Feb 13)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13274-westboro-baptist-church/page__view__findpost__p__100536 (Feb 13)
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13274-westboro-baptist-church/page__view__findpost__p__100693 (Feb 14)


There's a reason why I didn't jump onto your "Goodbye!" bandwagon and I think I was right not to do so.
 

Templar81

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The Westboro protesters peacefully assemble. They are protected by the first amendment. Get over it.

Get over it yourself!

I get it, I'm not an American so i can't comment,
 

aspen

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So does that mean you USE TO believe me before I made that statement, TexUs? I am flattered - LOL

Give me a break - I racked up over a thousand posts in two months before I made the statement about moving on - since then, I have not even started a thread! No that I need to defend myself to anyone.

And Foreigner - since when is pointing out perceived hypocrisy a defense for bad behavior? This is a message board, not the playground - follow your own advice and wise up
 

HammerStone

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I'm not so sure our Savior would have spent his time at funerals with signs that say "Thank God for Breast Cancer," "Thank God for IEDs," and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers!" I don't buy that argument for a minute. In fact, with regards to the few funerals he was documented at the folks came back to life. (Lazarus, who was a sinful man just like any one of us.)

Unfortunately, the reason we don't have laws against this sort of muck is that until now, we've had members of society who are mature enough to handle the freedom. I think we as Christians need to evaluate how our tactics respond to the world's tactics, because to me you cannot really tell the difference sometimes. I mean we say that the gay/lesbian community is the most militant, but I see a lot of evils as being "militant" in nature.

One thing that God has laid firmly upon my heart is that God operates with minds and personas, not with laws and morality. We cannot legislate morality and Christianity. You'll lose that battle every single time. That is why Christianity has been soundly on the retreat. Were in not for the God of everything, we'd be another Mount Olympus religion (aka dead).

[bible=I John 3:17]
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
[/bible]

From a heterosexual point of view, I find homosexuality revolting. However, you deal with sin not by dealing with the sin itself, but by dealing with the heart of the sinner. How receptive is anyone to a message of you failed, you stink, and you're not worthy of God's grace? For example, the few that are trying to make a similar argument are encountering the same resistance with religious beliefs here. It does not mean you condone something to approach it in the Godly manner.
 

TexUs

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I really don't think you'll find anyone that objects to that.

However strong arming our way (IE, regulation and restriction) is not how Christ would deal with it, either.
 

Visitor

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I'm not so sure our Savior would have spent his time at funerals with signs that say "Thank God for Breast Cancer," "Thank God for IEDs," and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers!" I don't buy that argument for a minute. In fact, with regards to the few funerals he was documented at the folks came back to life. (Lazarus, who was a sinful man just like any one of us.)
I would not do that and doubt anyone reading this message would.

Unfortunately, the reason we don't have laws against this sort of muck is that until now, we've had members of society who are mature enough to handle the freedom. I think we as Christians need to evaluate how our tactics respond to the world's tactics, because to me you cannot really tell the difference sometimes. I mean we say that the gay/lesbian community is the most militant, but I see a lot of evils as being "militant" in nature..)
Unfortuately we don’t have laws against this sort of thing? This is the USA, where we are suppose to have freedom of speech. Here’s a news flash for you. We have that right to protect those that don’t believe the politically correct message. The politically correct don’t need those protections.

One thing that God has laid firmly upon my heart is that God operates with minds and personas, not with laws and morality.
So what God firmly laid on your heart is in conflict with what the Bible says? Maybe it was not God that laid that on your heart. God operates with minds and personas? What kind of doctrine is that? You say not with laws and morality, but the Bible says

1 Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

So do I believe what I read in the Bible, or what you say?

We cannot legislate morality and Christianity. You'll lose that battle every single time. That is why Christianity has been soundly on the retreat. Were in not for the God of everything, we'd be another Mount Olympus religion (aka dead).
Christianity has been soundly on the retreat? No! True Christians are not on the retreat. The lukewarm masses may be on the retreat, but not Christians.

From a heterosexual point of view, I find homosexuality revolting. However, you deal with sin not by dealing with the sin itself, but by dealing with the heart of the sinner. How receptive is anyone to a message of you failed, you stink, and you're not worthy of God's grace? For example, the few that are trying to make a similar argument are encountering the same resistance with religious beliefs here. It does not mean you condone something to approach it in the Godly manner.
If you tickle the ears of homosexuals and tell them what they want to hear, there is very little chance they will repent. Is tickling the ears of homosexuals really showing them love? Just tell them God loves them, just as they are? If they don’t repent where are they heading? As far at the resistance the few standing on what the Bible says are getting, that just shows how anyone can call themselves a Christian.

As little as I have in common with the Church in question, I have even littler in common with all but a couple of the people that have posted on this thread. It’s funny how people claiming to be Christians will condemn those Christians they don’t agree with and turn right around and defend those the Bible says is an abomination to God. I would not expect this on a forum that is suppose to be Christian.

Lk13:

24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Rev3:13

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 

TexUs

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If you tickle the ears of homosexuals and tell them what they want to hear, there is very little chance they will repent. Is tickling the ears of homosexuals really showing them love? Just tell them God loves them, just as they are? If they don’t repent where are they heading? As far at the resistance the few standing on what the Bible says are getting, that just shows how anyone can call themselves a Christian.

As little as I have in common with the Church in question, I have even littler in common with all but a couple of the people that have posted on this thread. It’s funny how people claiming to be Christians will condemn those Christians they don’t agree with and turn right around and defend those the Bible says is an abomination to God. I would not expect this on a forum that is suppose to be Christian.
I've never understood why Christians will kick their pastor out of the church if they dare see him drinking one beer, but will be silent as little lambs on the homosexual issue. There's a disconnect. We wonder why the secular world sees us as hypocrites. We condemn that which we ourselves have made our rules (drinking, not drunkenness), but ignore the black and white rules that actually come from God (homosexuality).

Are we to love homosexuals? Yes.
However, as Christians, we should know that HABITUALLY SINNING is not a mark of a Christian. You can't run away from this fact. You must address the homosexuality issue.
 

HammerStone

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I would not do that and doubt anyone reading this message would.

That's for anyone who wants to defend this group as remotely Christian (which, set group being the subject of this thread makes my post relevant to the topic). We can apparently throw homosexuals out of Christianity for being homosexual but we cannot throw out those who revel in murder (Remember Matthew 5 about expanding the commandments to intentions of the heart). I am sorry, but going around to funerals of dead soldiers - or any person - and pulling stunts like this is not remotely Christian. You will know them by their fruit, and this is some rotten fruit! (Matthew 7:16)

Unfortuately we don’t have laws against this sort of thing? This is the USA, where we are suppose to have freedom of speech. Here’s a news flash for you. We have that right to protect those that don’t believe the politically correct message. The politically correct don’t need those protections.

You're looking way too hard for disagreement. Never did I state that I would support laws against this, and if you actually knew me as a person you'd know that. Personally though [warning unChristian thought ahead], I'd like to see a law passed where the protestors could be punched in the face. Signs like I mentioned are babaric and hurt the Christian cause far more than people imagine. However, God has shown me that way doesn't work.

So what God firmly laid on your heart is in conflict with what the Bible says? Maybe it was not God that laid that on your heart. God operates with minds and personas? What kind of doctrine is that? You say not with laws and morality, but the Bible says

I take it you are a man who chooses to ignore verses like Hosea 6:6? (Amongst dozens of others.) God said it himself, it's not the fact that you're mindlessly following through on some ritual. It's the fact that you love God. The Bible talks about the heart all throughout the New Testament, Father is even called the heart-knower in the Greek to emphasize this. (Acts 1:24)

If you want to make the statement that you only follow God to follow his laws first, then you've missed the boat entirely, but it's your boat to steer.

If you tickle the ears of homosexuals and tell them what they want to hear, there is very little chance they will repent. Is tickling the ears of homosexuals really showing them love? Just tell them God loves them, just as they are? If they don’t repent where are they heading? As far at the resistance the few standing on what the Bible says are getting, that just shows how anyone can call themselves a Christian.

Ah, there's the beloved phrase. Acting humanly towards another human suddenly becomes tickling ears. How about we go to the parts all over the Bible where it says be the example for them? Right now, the homosexual community sees a heterosexual community (and let's place the emphasis on Christians) rampant with divorce, adultery, porn, broken homes, workaholics, and worse.

The thing that we don't get - and the Apostles most certainly understood this concept - is that we live the life God intended us to. That means more than legislating morality. That means following those commandments given by God not as a list of laws but as something already on your heart because you're focused on God in the first place. The lesson of God writing upon the hearts the new covenant seems to be dead, and that is a Christianity (a false Christianity we agree) in retreat. God said it would be upon your heart, you wouldn't need to go to his Word to figure it out. That Bible is God's Word and truth all day long, but with a tool like the Holy Spirit, that Word gets written to a hard drive known as our heart.

You most definitely change hearts.

Romans 6 and Romans 6:6 in particular.
 

TexUs

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That's for anyone who wants to defend this group as remotely Christian (which, set group being the subject of this thread makes my post relevant to the topic). We can apparently throw homosexuals out of Christianity for being homosexual but we cannot throw out those who revel in murder (Remember Matthew 5 about expanding the commandments to intentions of the heart). I am sorry, but going around to funerals of dead soldiers - or any person - and pulling stunts like this is not remotely Christian. You will know them by their fruit, and this is some rotten fruit! (Matthew 7:16)
That's a strawman argument because I don't see anyone that's considered them Christian.

Ah, there's the beloved phrase. Acting humanly towards another human suddenly becomes tickling ears. How about we go to the parts all over the Bible where it says be the example for them? Right now, the homosexual community sees a heterosexual community (and let's place the emphasis on Christians) rampant with divorce, adultery, porn, broken homes, workaholics, and worse.
Yep. Sure do. I'll call all of the above sin just like I do homosexuality. They won't get special treatment.

That's my argument. Homosexuality does NOT get a pass.
 

Foreigner

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So does that mean you USE TO believe me before I made that statement, TexUs? I am flattered - LOL

Give me a break - I racked up over a thousand posts in two months before I made the statement about moving on - since then, I have not even started a thread! No that I need to defend myself to anyone.


-- Of course you don't have to defend yourself. Especially when you haven't lived up to what you said you were going to do:


"I have decided that God is more concerned with me spending my free time loving and serving others rather than posting on this board so I want to let everyone know that I enjoyed my time here and reading all your interesting posts, but I am going to be moving on." - Aspen


I wouldn't want to have to defend the fact that my calling for "serving and loving others" lasted less than two weeks, either.


Awwwwkward....






And Foreigner - since when is pointing out perceived hypocrisy a defense for bad behavior? This is a message board, not the playground - follow your own advice and wise up


-- lol Physician, heal thyself. A quick perusal shows that you have been, on more than one occasion, a willing participant in the very behavior you now choose to criticise.
Welcome to hypocrisy, population: You.


It would seem the term 'wise up' would be more applicable to a person whose opinion on witnessing to homosexuals is: ...it is bad enough they are going to Hell, at least let them eat, drink, and be merry." – Aspen

-- And before you respond with your patented "Well, at least I..." statement, realize that with this ^ ^ ^ ^ statement you are advocating less than "the very least" that can be done to help them know that Jesus loves them as much as he love you or me, and that they need Him to avoid eternal damnation.




.
 

Joshua David

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Has anyone considered the fact that just because it is lawful in the eyes of the United States does not meant that is right in the eyes of God. Abortion is legal in the United States. But that doesn't make it right. We all struggle with sin. I may not struggle with Homosexuality, but I do struggle with other things, that God views as sin. Any man who claims that he does not sin is a liar. Paul struggled with his sin nature, I struggle with my sin nature, we all struggle with our own sin nature.

Should it come to anyone's surprise that those people outside the church struggle with sin? And for this instead of heaping love on them you heap contempt? No one outside the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is able to really change their sinful ways. Someone calling themselves a Christian, who is still sinning unrepentantly, is in a whole different category, than someone who is out in the world who is doing this.

Here is the hard truth.. Before we all came to Christ, we all where living sinful lifestyles. We all lived our lives to fulfill our own lusts of the flesh. We all stared into the face of God and told him that we will decide how to live our life. So in the eyes of God, none of us were better than they worst flaming homosexual.

Before I came to Christ, I lied, I stole, I regularly got drunk, I occasionally looked at porn, had pre-marital sex, I cussed, I used the Name of the Lord in vain. But you know what, I didn't have a Christian come to me holding up signs that said, God hated me. I wasn't told that I had to completely stop sinning or I would go straight to Hell. I wasn't told that I had to clean up my act before I could come to God. I was told that God loved me. That God cared about me. That God wanted to have a personal relationship with me. I was told that Jesus died on the cross to pay for my sins, and if I accepted his offer of atonement, then I could be adopted as a child of God.

Is Homosexuality a sin. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I have never considered it or defended it as being anything else. I am not talking about homosexuality, but about how Christians treat homosexuals. It wasn't until after I came to Christ that the Holy Spirit began his Sanctifying work. Removing all the garbage in my life, and filling me up with his Spirit. It is not until the Homosexuals come to Christ that the Holy Spirit can move on them. I wish more Christians would get this truth.

So having been the recipient of this Grace, how can I in good conscience withhold that same grace from someone because they are living a homosexual lifestyle? Who am I to condemn those outside the church, when in God's eyes I was just as bad before I came to Christ. Why is it that I could come to God just as I am, and yet homosexuals are expected to clean themselves up first, outside of the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

Our words can either push people away, or pull them to God, or if not pull them to God at least to plant a seed. But to plant a seed, it must be done in a spirit of humility, grace and love, and not revulsion and hate. When we speak words from revulsion and hate, then all we do is to push people further and further away from a God that they clearly believe hates them. These precious people ( and before I get any comments, every person is precious to God) see the hate in your eyes, and say that since we are acting in God's stead, if we hate them, then God hates them. Why would they ever come to a God that hates them.

There are going to be some Christians that are going to have to explain to God for every homosexual that died apart from God that they pushed away from him. That person's blood will be on their hands, and God will demand an accounting.

Joshua David.
 

HammerStone

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That's a strawman argument because I don't see anyone that's considered them Christian.

Go check Google News (as an example) just for a moment. It's labeled Christian on much more than one occasion. It seems we agree that's not the way to handle thing, but do you realize that people like this group begin to define the Christian experience for anyone on the outside looking in? Right now Westboro Baptist is an example of a Baptist church and Christian church anywhere else for someone who doesn't know better.

Suppose the person does turn out to be gay for a moment. They Google some terms to see more about this church and they end up in this thread. Do you really think that any sinner is going to stop when they meet nothing but a bunch of hypocrites who have their own sin. Like it or not, Scripturally there is one unpardonable sin - and it's not homosexuality - everything else can be forgiven!

Yes, some groups from the homosexual community do spew hate, but if you meet hate with more hate nothing will change. Christians weren't called to pickett and legislate. We were called to change lives.

Yep. Sure do. I'll call all of the above sin just like I do homosexuality. They won't get special treatment.

That's my argument. Homosexuality does NOT get a pass.

I fail to thank God enough for the pass that he gave me. He gave you one as well as everyone else here, and we all have our sins regardless of what they may be.

It's not a pass to work to try and help someone to Christ.
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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Has anyone considered the fact that just because it is lawful in the eyes of the United States does not meant that is right in the eyes of God. Abortion is legal in the United States. But that doesn't make it right.
IMO using that as your justification is no different than trying to ban lying.

Just because we have freedom to do so does not justify us doing it.

I think you'll find the United State's method more closely aligns with the God-mankind model than what you're suggesting.

God gave man the ability to choose the bad. So does the US.
Giving us the ability is not the same as giving us a license to do so without consequences.

Is Homosexuality a sin. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I have never considered it or defended it as being anything else. I am not talking about homosexuality, but about how Christians treat homosexuals. It wasn't until after I came to Christ that the Holy Spirit began his Sanctifying work. Removing all the garbage in my life, and filling me up with his Spirit. It is not until the Homosexuals come to Christ that the Holy Spirit can move on them. I wish more Christians would get this truth.
Yes, however you'll find (Ephesians 1) the salvation process works like this:
1) Hear the truth
2) Hear the gospel of our SALVATION
3) Believe in Christ
4) Sealed with the Holy Spirit

You'll notice that an understanding of SALVATION requires an understanding of what we're saved FROM. Sin. You necessarily must address the homosexuality issue.
We do not relieve the Holy Spirit UNTIL understanding all these things. That's black and white in Ephesians 1:13.

This also defies just common logic. You can't save someone if they're unaware of what they're being saved from.

Go check Google News (as an example) just for a moment. It's labeled Christian on much more than one occasion. It seems we agree that's not the way to handle thing, but do you realize that people like this group begin to define the Christian experience for anyone on the outside looking in? Right now Westboro Baptist is an example of a Baptist church and Christian church anywhere else for someone who doesn't know better.
So?
You expect me to answer for how other people label this group?
 

Foreigner

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Apr 14, 2010
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Has anyone considered the fact that just because it is lawful in the eyes of the United States does not meant that is right in the eyes of God. Abortion is legal in the United States. But that doesn't make it right. We all struggle with sin. I may not struggle with Homosexuality, but I do struggle with other things, that God views as sin. Any man who claims that he does not sin is a liar. Paul struggled with his sin nature, I struggle with my sin nature, we all struggle with our own sin nature.

Should it come to anyone's surprise that those people outside the church struggle with sin? And for this instead of heaping love on them you heap contempt? No one outside the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is able to really change their sinful ways. Someone calling themselves a Christian, who is still sinning unrepentantly, is in a whole different category, than someone who is out in the world who is doing this.

Here is the hard truth.. Before we all came to Christ, we all where living sinful lifestyles. We all lived our lives to fulfill our own lusts of the flesh. We all stared into the face of God and told him that we will decide how to live our life. So in the eyes of God, none of us were better than they worst flaming homosexual.

Before I came to Christ, I lied, I stole, I regularly got drunk, I occasionally looked at porn, had pre-marital sex, I cussed, I used the Name of the Lord in vain. But you know what, I didn't have a Christian come to me holding up signs that said, God hated me. I wasn't told that I had to completely stop sinning or I would go straight to Hell. I wasn't told that I had to clean up my act before I could come to God. I was told that God loved me. That God cared about me. That God wanted to have a personal relationship with me. I was told that Jesus died on the cross to pay for my sins, and if I accepted his offer of atonement, then I could be adopted as a child of God.

Is Homosexuality a sin. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I have never considered it or defended it as being anything else. I am not talking about homosexuality, but about how Christians treat homosexuals. It wasn't until after I came to Christ that the Holy Spirit began his Sanctifying work. Removing all the garbage in my life, and filling me up with his Spirit. It is not until the Homosexuals come to Christ that the Holy Spirit can move on them. I wish more Christians would get this truth.

So having been the recipient of this Grace, how can I in good conscience withhold that same grace from someone because they are living a homosexual lifestyle? Who am I to condemn those outside the church, when in God's eyes I was just as bad before I came to Christ. Why is it that I could come to God just as I am, and yet homosexuals are expected to clean themselves up first, outside of the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

Our words can either push people away, or pull them to God, or if not pull them to God at least to plant a seed. But to plant a seed, it must be done in a spirit of humility, grace and love, and not revulsion and hate. When we speak words from revulsion and hate, then all we do is to push people further and further away from a God that they clearly believe hates them. These precious people ( and before I get any comments, every person is precious to God) see the hate in your eyes, and say that since we are acting in God's stead, if we hate them, then God hates them. Why would they ever come to a God that hates them.

There are going to be some Christians that are going to have to explain to God for every homosexual that died apart from God that they pushed away from him. That person's blood will be on their hands, and God will demand an accounting.

Joshua David.


-- The issue I have with your post Josh is that you seem to be making a blanket accusation that includes all Christians and how they witness to homosexuals.
Westboro doesn't fit into that category and I know of no one else currently using that method to interact with homosexuals.
 

Robbie

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Jan 4, 2011
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