what about transgender ? what if you were born as transgender

[St. SteVen]

The Bible says that engaging in transgender lifestyles is contrary to God's wishes.

Good post, thanks.

It seems to me that there is a line not to be crossed, in terms of "lifestyle".

A person with an imbalance in estrogen/testosterone levels may have characteristics akin to the opposite gender.
And in terms of finding a mate, society may be pushing them in the wrong direction. Opposites attract.

They may be saddled with loneliness and despair over their lot in life. This wasn't their choice to be born this way.
Many factors may be driving this. Physical size, birth order, gender of siblings, family environment, temperament...

None of this is a sinful lifestyle to my knowledge. It's just who they are. And it probably was evident at a very early age.
As they age, they will have some "difficult" choices to make. Made difficult because of religious and societal pressures.

There are now laws in place to prevent discrimination based on gender identity and sexual preference. As there should be.

Homosexuals used to protect themselves by staying "in the closet". But the societal barriers are coming down.
Now they have "Coming Out" parties and annual PRIDE parades.

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[Eternally Grateful]

Is a mental/spiritual handicap any less disabling than a physical one? How do you make the judgment that someone is "going against" their nature? How do you know that the person in question isn't suffering from overwhelming and overpowering demonic oppression that has deceived, confused, and mislead them into believing that they were "born in the wrong body" and are behaving "naturally"? You cannot render a judgment that they are making a conscious decision to "go against their nature" because you don't know their situation; only God knows.

Maybe God is allowing them to be tormented to the extreme and to be lost for a period of time as a part of their preparation for God's Kingdom in the hereafter.

so a person who wants to kill people. because it is what they are. we should treat them the same?

How about a person that wants to take everything for him or herself and not share anything with anyone.

Or a person who does everything they can to make themself look good at work. and make all those who they work with look bad. so he or she can puff themselves up and get a promotion.

Since when do we call sin a mental disease?They have interviewed many a person. and it was pear pressure that Got them to have the surgery.. Social media is also a great danger. because these people go on and say they feel certain ways and with this "woke" idiology, they are pushed to follow their feelings. and ignore reality.

The Bible says that engaging in transgender lifestyles is contrary to God's wishes. Scriptures can be shared with others so that they can see for themselves what God's position is on the matter. We are not qualified, however, to render judgments.

the bible says it is a sin, as far as homosexuality goes. The bible calls it an abomination.

I agree. we should not judge people. that's not our job, that is Gods. But we also should not be promoting it. and should stand against those who do.

 

[NotTheRock]

They may be saddled with loneliness and despair over their lot in life. This wasn't their choice to be born this way.
Many factors may be driving this. Physical size, birth order, gender of siblings, family environment, temperament...

None of this is a sinful lifestyle to my knowledge.

I think that engaging in a transgender lifestyle falls under "unnatural relations" and probably a few others. However, as we are all consigned to sin, transgender people might lack the ability to change WITHOUT God's granting of repentance. We are ALL slaves to sin and we're called to put our faith in Jesus and to seek repentance. Of course, one cannot believe in, let alone follow Jesus, unless it is granted from above. In the meantime, many are lost in their state of unbelief and sin. We are blessed to not be like them which we surely would be without God's blessings.

Where some of our brethren themselves "miss the mark", I believe, is their belief that gay people choose to be in that state. I don't believe they are. I believe that they are in bondage to that particular form of sin just like another might be in bondage to addiction. Jesus saves us and frees a person from that bondage - eventually, after they are granted repentance and the ability to believe in him.

I believe that there is a process and that God decides when one can believe and repent and, for many, those things aren't granted during their lifetimes. Many Christians mistakenly believe that a person controls their own ability to believe and repent but, of course, the Bible tells us otherwise. Nevertheless, that doesn't preclude many Christians from publicly rendering judgments.

 

[NotTheRock]

so a person who wants to kill people. because it is what they are. we should treat them the same?

Yes, we should sit on our hands while a psychotic ax murderer goes to town inside a preschool. That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think that engaging in a transgender lifestyle falls under "unnatural relations" and probably a few others.

You seem to be making some erroneous assumptions about what transgender, or gender dysphoria, means.

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

I'm still trying to help Christians understand this COMPLEX issue that they have reduced to a knee-jerk reaction. Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh. :( Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman...

www.christianityboard.com

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[NotTheRock]

You seem to be making some erroneous assumptions about what transgender, or gender dysphoria, means.

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

I'm still trying to help Christians understand this COMPLEX issue that they have reduced to a knee-jerk reaction. Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh. :( Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman...

www.christianityboard.com

[

I've never claimed to be an expert on the topic. The Bible is clear that homosexual behavior is contrary to God's wishes. I don't anticipate that such activities will occur in God's Kingdom.

I once met a transgender (he thinks he's a woman)online who said that he was a devout Christian. He said that Jesus will forgive him and fix him but had no plans to change his lifestyle. I thanked him for his candor and wished him well. Then I privately said a prayer for him and moved on.

 

[quietthinker]

That's interesting. How did you arrive at that conclusion?
What would the mark of the beast be in practical terms?

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I've known it for some time and have attempted to share it in various ways but it falls on deaf ears. Many folk are so convinced it is some sort of tattooing or microchipping or some other worldly activity however the issue is spiritual. They do not see that it is to do with an allegiance of the heart to either the Prince of darkness or the Prince of life.

Those who bonded in heart to Jesus will manifest just as Jesus and his disciples manifested their reality. A relationship with him is not an acting or a round of certain performances. Jesus calls his people the light of the World....just as he was/ is. It will not/ can not be hidden just as a light isn't......'by this will all men know you are my disciples ........'

Neither is the mark disquised by theological talk or any talk for that matter.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Is a mental/spiritual handicap any less disabling than a physical one? How do you make the judgment that someone is "going against" their nature? How do you know that the person in question isn't suffering from overwhelming and overpowering demonic oppression that has deceived, confused, and mislead them into believing that they were "born in the wrong body" and are behaving "naturally"? You cannot render a judgment that they are making a conscious decision to "go against their nature" because you don't know their situation; only God knows.

Maybe God is allowing them to be tormented to the extreme and to be lost for a period of time as a part of their preparation for God's Kingdom in the hereafter.

The Bible says that engaging in transgender lifestyles is contrary to God's wishes. Scriptures can be shared with others so that they can see for themselves what God's position is on the matter. We are not qualified, however, to render judgments.

There's no denying that gender dysphoria is a handicap and disability. We can't deny that those who suffer with this disorder, would rather be normal. I had a neighbor who identified as a transgender and they told me that their life is a living hell, so I know their lifestyle choice comes at a huge cost. It ruins their relationship with their most of their family, friends and relatives and they become a social misfits.

I did try to share the gospel with them, but it wasn't received because as you rightly say they couldn't hide who they are, so they came out and announced it by their lifestyle choice.

Although their choice was not convenient and they knew it would cause them much trouble, they still decided to go with it. We should consider that there are many other sinful lifestyles such as pedophilia which people keep in the closet, because they could be sent to prison for coming out.

I personally believe that God hands some people over to serve their sin;

Romans 1 :28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I believe this passage of scripture, is saying that the reason people chose sinful lifestyles is because God gives them over to a debased mind. This must mean that He doesn't give His people over to a debased mind, so they are kept safe from these things.

So you are right, they don't freely choose this sinful lifestyle, they choose it because they have been given over to do those things they would rather not do. Sadly my neighbor committed suicide as a sad and lonely person who was dead for around a week before their body was discovered. I was very sad to hear of their death, because they were very likable and pleasant to speak with. I certainly wasn't judgmental towards them, I actually prayed for them but they never found it within themselves to repent.

 

[NotTheRock]

There's no denying that gender dysphoria is a handicap and disability. We can't deny that those who suffer with this disorder, would rather be normal. I had a neighbor who identified as a transgender and they told me that their life is a living hell, so I know their lifestyle choice comes at a huge cost. It ruins their relationship with their most of their family, friends and relatives and they become a social misfits.

I did try to share the gospel with them, but it wasn't received because as you rightly say they couldn't hide who they are, so they came out and announced it by their lifestyle choice.

Although their choice was not convenient and they knew it would cause them much trouble, they still decided to go with it. We should consider that there are many other sinful lifestyles such as pedophilia which people keep in the closet, because they could be sent to prison for coming out.

I personally believe that God hands some people over to serve their sin;

Romans 1 :28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I believe this passage of scripture, is saying that the reason people chose sinful lifestyles is because God gives them over to a debased mind. This must mean that He doesn't give His people over to a debased mind, so they are kept safe from these things.

So you are right, they don't freely choose this sinful lifestyle, they choose it because they have been given over to do those things they would rather not do. Sadly my neighbor committed suicide as a sad and lonely person who was dead for around a week before their body was discovered. I was very sad to hear of their death, because they were very likable and pleasant to speak with. I certainly wasn't judgmental towards them, I actually prayed for them but they never found it within themselves to repent.

Great post.

 

[quietthinker]

So what do we do? Shun them and treat them as unworthy? Perhaps these folk who carry burdens most of us will never identify with. Are these included as those mentioned by Jesus as 'the least'?

 

[Sheila3]

Have you considered that the mark of the beast is the reliance and the assumptions which exclude relationship with Jesus?

The late pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught that the mark of the beast would be what you think, your head and what you do, your hands.

That would be the same as what you're saying the mark maybe excluding a relationship with Jesus.

Since the dawn of mankind at the fall of Adam, man has been disobedient to the Word of God - rejecting his way.....

Revelation is specific: the one that is called the Antichrist will cause all to receive the mark whose names are not written in the Lambs Book of Life. When the word cause is used it seems to mean force or mandate for all to receive the mark of the beast. He will make it impossible for people to live - buying, selling, and trading, is living which includes food shelter work medical all our farms of buying or selling or trading unless you have the mark of the beast.

How would they know who has the mark of the beast or not how would they know who serves Christ and who doesn't in a person's everyday life. When a person goes to the grocery store how would they know who has the marker who doesn't. There are 8 billion people in this world.
How would they know when someone goes to buy a car, or goes to buy clothes, or rent an apartment, or for medical treatment or medicines - how would they know.

There has to be some type of identification system in play, so they will know who has accepted the mark of the beast and who has rejected it _ because those that rejected will not be able to do anything and will be identified immediately if they try.

Makes sense to me and I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong.

 

[St. SteVen]

The late pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught that the mark of the beast would be what you think, your head and what you do, your hands.

That's not at all what I think.
It will be (was) an actual physical mark (charagma) on the hand or forehead required to operate within the financial market of the end times.

Strong's Concordance
charagma: a stamp, impress
Original Word: χάραγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charagma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ag-mah)
Definition: a stamp, impress
Usage: sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign.

• Revelation 13:16
  It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
  
  
• Revelation 14:9
  A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,
  
  
• Revelation 20:4
  I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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[quietthinker]

The late pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught that the mark of the beast would be what you think, your head and what you do, your hands.

That would be the same as what you're saying the mark maybe excluding a relationship with Jesus.

Since the dawn of mankind at the fall of Adam, man has been disobedient to the Word of God - rejecting his way.....

Revelation is specific: the one that is called the Antichrist will cause all to receive the mark whose names are not written in the Lambs Book of Life. When the word cause is used it seems to mean force or mandate for all to receive the mark of the beast. He will make it impossible for people to live - buying, selling, and trading, is living which includes food shelter work medical all our farms of buying or selling or trading unless you have the mark of the beast.

How would they know who has the mark of the beast or not how would they know who serves Christ and who doesn't in a person's everyday life. When a person goes to the grocery store how would they know who has the marker who doesn't. There are 8 billion people in this world.
How would they know when someone goes to buy a car, or goes to buy clothes, or rent an apartment, or for medical treatment or medicines - how would they know.

There has to be some type of identification system in play, so they will know who has accepted the mark of the beast and who has rejected it _ because those that rejected will not be able to do anything and will be identified immediately if they try.

Makes sense to me and I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong.

The MOB is a spiritual reality which manifests in how you think and behave or, in your forehead and in your hand.